TheFurizzlyBear
Member
I don't understand this, both Forza 4 and Horizon had the tokens. The only difference is that they don't give you free cars for leveling this time. Why are people freaking out about this now?
.Don't blame the publishers, Blame the gamers who keep buying this rubbish
Forza 3.The elements started with Forza 4's Car Tokens system, actually.
I hate it when microtransactions are advertised in-game.
I have nothing against companies forcing microtransactions: they are in the business of making money out of naive gamers, and I'm in the business of not buying exploitative products. We compliment each other well.
I think this is getting massively, massively overblown.And people keep saying to me that microtransaction wouldn't tamper with the game core design. Developer would make as it is and left microtransaction as an option for those without enough time to make their way through with money and it isn;t a problem since they doing it with full consent.
Wow.
I hate it when microtransactions are advertised in-game.
so glad Nintendo doesn't do this crap
Yes, but Horizon has pushed it further up front with the shop and cars clearly locked away like it with enough messages telling you about it. Is 5 even more obnoxious about it?The elements started with Forza 4's Car Tokens system, actually.
Somehow, someway, they really "got" what DLC is supposed to be about and even though they are new to that game, they are one of the top makers of DLC.
Wow, that sounds pretty gross, yet alot of reviewers don't seem to care about this... which seems strange to me as i imagine that there are plenty of consumers who would care about this.
Nothing stated in the OP(series netting about 110,000 credits, some cars costing millions) is any different from previous Forza's.
.
Forza 3.
And it was never an issue. You could make plenty of money by doing all sorts of things.
GAF is overreacting.I forgot about the microtransaction thing. Good on GAF for calling Turn 10 out on that.
I hate it when microtransactions are advertised in-game.
Its optional. Going by what the reviewer said, there is no evidence that things have become 'more grindy' than they were before. So if you don't want to buy cars with real money, don't. It wont affect you whatsoever.This doesnt make the whole business-model good though.
What store system? :/Isn't the store system gone now and replaced by something else?
The auction house...? You can make money off of it buy selling your tune ups, cars, and designs...? . Don't you have Forza?What store system? :/
Maybe I'm massively overblown it, but is it really the devs wouldn't be forced by the publisher to intentionally make it really hard or extended it with unnecessary grinding in order to make the microtransaction option more appealing. When a game is too grindy or too hard or both, it is the result of bad design and the way to fix it is by readjusting it. Now with microstransaction, they can keep the bad design as it is and masquerade them as an option. By OP, it is clearly stated that they increase the grind, and in the meantime they add a microstransaction option. Do you expect me to believe that the increase in "difficulty" doesn't have anything to do with the microtransaction option? Maybe I'm just too paranoid about this, but it's clearly the option is there and there is nothing for publisher from stopping them doing such thing.I think this is getting massively, massively overblown.
Nothing stated in the OP(series netting about 110,000 credits, some cars costing millions) is any different from previous Forza's.
Seriously, this is pretty ridiculous and you can clearly see who plays Forza and who doesn't.
You said that there is no evidence that the game become more grindy. I could said the same too that there is no evidence otherwise that the game become less grindy or kept as it is in the very least. Grindiness tolerance of each people is different. Maybe the reivewer love it as much as you do that they don't notice the difference. There is a reason why I think game serious like this that isn't tied down by any connection to the previous installment should be reviewed with neutral stance.Its optional. Going by what the reviewer said, there is no evidence that things have become 'more grindy' than they were before. So if you don't want to buy cars with real money, don't. It wont affect you whatsoever.
They did it in Fire Emblem 3ds,you can buy maps that give you a lot of easy money or experience.so glad Nintendo doesn't do this crap
Its optional. Going by what the reviewer said, there is no evidence that things have become 'more grindy' than they were before. So if you don't want to buy cars with real money, don't. It wont affect you whatsoever.
/
It's almost as if most of the professional critics don't seem to be representing our best interests any more...
GAF is overreacting.
As GAF often does.
110k per hour, and cars cost a million or more each? Ouch. Not much leeway for experiments, is there.
What scares me is that they're doing this based on real-world numbers. Nobody just gets up one day and thinks it would be kinda fun to screw their customers over for shits and giggles - there's probably loads and loads of market research going into this change. Someone looked at the numbers and projected that they would make a massive profit from this.
Hence: There are customers that encourage and enable these kinds of changes to games. Fucking hell, stay the fuck away from muh games. *gets pitchfork*
The F2P elements slipped into Forza in Horizon, and a lot of people had either ignored or complained about it. It wasn't intrusive enough to completely kill the game, has that changed here?
GAF is overreacting.
As GAF often does.
They did it in Fire Emblem 3ds,you can buy maps that give you a lot of easy money or experience.
They are just behind the curve, but they are getting there...
I didn't know the entire storefront is gone(?), but even if so, you still make money in pretty much every mode. I don't think many people lacked for money in FM4 and only the very rarest cars were hard to attain.The auction house...? You can make money off of it buy selling your tune ups, cars, and designs...? . Don't you have Forza?
EDIT: The point is, you don't have the extra source for income in FM5. Not that I know of.
The evidence that its about the same is right there in the OP. If you played Forza games, you'd know. But you don't, so you're getting overly worked up about it. I can see why you'd be worried, but really, with Forza, it hasn't been an issue before and it doesn't sound any different now.Maybe I'm massively overblown it, but is it really the devs wouldn't be forced by the publisher to intentionally make it really hard or extended it with unnecessary grinding in order to make the microtransaction option more appealing. When a game is too grindy or too hard or both, it is the result of bad design and the way to fix it is by readjusting it. Now with microstransaction, they can keep the bad design as it is and masquerade them as an option. By OP, it is clearly stated that they increase the grind, and in the meantime they add a microstransaction option. Do you expect me to believe that the increase in "difficulty" doesn't have anything to do with the microtransaction option? Maybe I'm just too paranoid about this, but it's clearly the option is there and there is nothing for publisher from stopping them doing such thing.
Seriously, what makes you so sure that the microtransaction option doesn't have anything to do with the increase of grindiness of the game? Do you have word of god from the developer that the microtransaction wouldn't tamper with the core design of their games?
You said that there is no evidence that the game become more grindy. I could said the same too that there is no evidence otherwise that the game become less grindy or kept as it is in the very least. Grindiness tolerance of each people is different. Maybe the reivewer love it as much as you do that they don't notice the difference. There is a reason why I think game serious like this that isn't tied down by any connection to the previous installment should be reviewed with neutral stance.
Yes, the expensive cars will take some time to get. I don't think that's unreasonable. Its not as if you wont have plenty of other cars you can easily afford along the way, though. Its like many games - certain things will take some time and effort to get.It will affect my time though if I want to have one of the premium-cars that cost a million and I need to play 10 hours for just one car.
If I like another of the premium cars and I want it, thats another 10 hours.
Just because it was similar in the old Forza titles, doesnt really make it a good business-practice.
I'll just summarize my rant from the review thread:
I absolutely do no want to strip away the right for someone to take advantage of the time saving options if it improves their experience. I guess in the end it all comes down to how much you trust a company to be honest in balancing the game with customer experience in mind vs the amount of money that is able to be made.
I really dislike this "It's optional" line of defence. Come on now, think for just a minute. We're in a business meeting, we want more money out of our game, what is the easiest way to do this for the sequel?
We've already eased the audience into it after all, so stretching the limits just a little bit more each time, won't matter right? It's still optional after all. We're just giving everyone a choice.
I didn't know the entire storefront is gone(?), but even if so, you still make money in pretty much every mode. I don't think many people lacked for money in FM4 and only the very rarest cars were hard to attain.
The evidence that its about the same is right there in the OP. If you played Forza games, you'd know. But you don't, so you're getting overly worked up about it. I can see why you'd be worried, but really, with Forza, it hasn't been an issue before and it doesn't sound any different now.
Trust me, if it was something I thought would really be terrible, I'd be the first to say it. And so would the other Forza fans. But they aren't concerned because they know that it isn't an issue.
Yes, the expensive cars will take some time to get. I don't think that's unreasonable. Its not as if you wont have plenty of other cars you can easily afford along the way, though. Its like many games - certain things will take some time and effort to get.
What bothers me with this "time saving" aspect is why does this require more money? If the developers/publishers cared about saving us time, it should just be a menu option, or better yet, a fucking game paced to not feel like a slog! It is an illusion of convince. It is nothing more than exploiting more money from their consumers. It is fucking crazy that we have hit a point where we feel the need to pay other people, who we already paid once, for the privilege of them to not further waste our time with their product.
Yep.I didn't know the entire storefront is gone(?), but even if so, you still make money in pretty much every mode. I don't think many people lacked for money in FM4 and only the very rarest cars were hard to attain.
GAF is overreacting.
As GAF often does.
I have nothing against companies forcing microtransactions: they are in the business of making money out of naive gamers, and I'm in the business of not buying exploitative products. We compliment each other well.
What irks me, instead, are both the game designers in denial that their job regressed into engineering exploitative tricks out of classic design templates (Gamasutra has really a collection of those) and gamers who defend their practices ("I can grind everything for free and you should have no life too", and "I paid to win, therefore the game is not pay to win", take the cake for the worst in-denial excuses). And even in this case, it's not the people or their preferences and self delusions, but the fact their denial is reshaping gaming in the worst possible way for my tastes.
Jonathan Blow did a very great talk about how some game design elements cannot survive microtransactions, it was probably already posted but I'll link it here just in case.
What bothers me with this "time saving" aspect is why does this require more money? If the developers/publishers cared about saving us time, it should just be a menu option, or better yet, a fucking game paced to not feel like a slog! It is an illusion of convenience. It is nothing more than exploiting more money from their customers. It is fucking crazy that we have hit a point where we feel the need to pay other people, who we already paid once, for the privilege of them to not further waste our time with their product.
so glad Nintendo doesn't do this crap
They did it in Fire Emblem 3ds,you can buy maps that give you a lot of easy money or experience.
They are just behind the curve, but they are getting there...
Do you realize that you could live in the bubble without seeing such obvious problem? There are reasons why common people could point out basic logical fallacies in fiction that the fans and writers didn't even realized from the get go. Being not playing the game doesn't invalidate my argument that there is absolutely nothing that could stop such business model could tamper the core design. I questioned it whether or not there are any insurance that developer keep their game at it is without the transaction model in mind, which I think at the moment there is absolutely nothing to make sure of that.The evidence that its about the same is right there in the OP. If you played Forza games, you'd know. But you don't, so you're getting overly worked up about it. I can see why you'd be worried, but really, with Forza, it hasn't been an issue before and it doesn't sound any different now.
Trust me, if it was something I thought would really be terrible, I'd be the first to say it. And so would the other Forza fans. But they aren't concerned because they know that it isn't an issue.
If Game Freak Jumped the boat, they would make all of that as part of paid DLC. Don't want wasting time to train your team for online battles? Buy the EXP Share from store now!Yep, or an item you can buy IN GAME not with real money. The Pokemon games have an item (XP Share) and you can enable to level up your pokemon faster. They also give you rollerblades (in addition to the regular bike you can unlock) to reduce the games grind significantly.
I don't get what you're saying. Anybody who played FM4 normally usually had plenty of money. Most cars were perfectly attainable. It was only the expensive, rare cars that would possibly require any grinding.If you think it is as simple as this, then you are just begging to make these practices even worse. To assume that their micro transactions are only balanced around not needing to buy them only comes across as naive. I mean was forza 4's time sink justifiable? Did they decide that perhaps the time sink needed might have needed to be balanced, but instead just added micro-transactions? I'm sorry, but this kind of dlc has to effect the game, even if they "changed nothing" from one version to the next. That doesn't mean 4 didnt need timesink adjusting, it just means they decided to add micro-transactions.
Ok, so you can still make money with that, then. Its just quite buying/selling like it used to be. I guess if you played these games, you'd know what was being said there.
I do know. I was making a slight jab at the person I was responding to with that.I absolutely hate when people say "gaf is...". Seriously, stop. Out of all the people you should know better than saying we are all one entity.
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