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[danthefan]

What kind of functionality could this cross system play have, if I had a friend who was on XBox and I'm on PS4 would there be a lobby where we could find each other? Or does it just give a slightly bigger pool of players/randoms to play along with?

I struggle to care about this tbh. For me anyway it wouldn't particularly improve my experience of either console.


Sony's Helen Lovejoy explanation is dumb as fuck. But I can sort of understand where they're coming from from a business point of view, why would they allow this? Here you go MS have another 60m people in your online player pool.

 

[Liamario]

As a consumer, this fucking sucks.

As a business, I'd do the same.

Pretty much sums it up. No incentive for Sony to allow MS to benefit from their install base.

 

[tzare]

The anti consumer part comes from the fact that objectively EVERY crossplay multiplat to come out on PS4 will be objectively inferior to the other console versions

How so?
If Sony doesn't allow xplay with xb but does with pc like now, just recently saw that Disc jam also allows xplay for example, considering it has a much higher use base and still allows pc, how is that objectively inferior than xb+pc and occasionally switch.

As others have said, this needs to be addressed by the publishers and developers and platform holders talking and find and agreement. And do it well, not just randoms that you can't interact with because are on another platform.

 

[Ryuuga]

Yeah, why did this not get a thread?

It's almost like people didn't really care that it was removed.

 

[Aleh]

Pretty much sums it up. No incentive for Sony to allow ME to benefit from their install base.

It goes both ways though, it's not about benefitting you, it's about benefitting their own users that currently can't play with Xbox owners.

 

[CookTrain]

It's almost like people didn't really care that it was removed.

It was posted in the Crossplay thread. So there's that.

I think the issues with that one are that most people don't care about Fortnite in the first place any more after all the other issues it has had, and the vast majority of people didn't even know it had crossplay in the first place because of the wonky way in which it's implemented.

As I said at the time, MS should be questioned just as much over it for an explanation of their stance.

 

[tzare]

It goes both ways though, it's not about benefitting you, it's about benefitting their own users that currently can't play with Xbox owners.

The benefit would be limited, tbh, it hasn't been an issue so far, and instead it would benefit much more xb users, especially in Europe or Japan. That makes no sense for Sony since those potential customers may stay on xb if their favourite games benefit from higher use base

 

[LordKano]

Who cares about what makes sense for Sony, can't you think about what makes sense for you, the consumer, and not what is in the benefit of the multimillion dollars company ?
I find the mentality of "I'm fine with it because it makes sense for Sony to apply x anti-consumer policy" mindblowing.

 

[nekkid]

Who cares about what makes sense for Sony, can't you think about what makes sense for you, the consumer, and not what is in the benefit of the multimillion dollars company ?
I find the mentality of "I'm fine with it because it makes sense for Sony to apply x anti-consumer policy" mindblowing.

Also, "I'm angry that MS did it last gen, but I'm fine that Sony is doing it this gen"

 

[Lom1lo]

The benefit would be limited, tbh, it hasn't been an issue so far, and instead it would benefit much more xb users, especially in Europe or Japan. That makes no sense for Sony since those potential customers may stay on xb if their favourite games benefit from higher use base

I think the playerbase of ps4 could benefit as well, especially in dlc playlists of certain games..

 

[tzare]

I think the playerbase of ps4 could benefit as well, especially in dlc playlists of certain games..

Of course, for dlc or niche games, but the overall picture is that ps4 userbase would get very limited improvements, considering that already have pc xplay, and the ones that would really see the population in online games boosted would be xb users.
And that doesn't make sense for Sony at all.
As it didn't fit ms past generation.

 

[iratA]

Thanks Sony
Protecting their base and making wise business decisions

Agreed Sony have the biggest install base of current gen, people can find games with others to play with surely, no need to risk opening up their system. Situation is overblown by people who don't understand both the technical, security and legal issues involved in this.

 

[Uno Venova]

Who cares about what makes sense for Sony, can't you think about what makes sense for you, the consumer, and not what is in the benefit of the multimillion dollars company ?
I find the mentality of "I'm fine with it because it makes sense for Sony to apply x anti-consumer policy" mindblowing.

I find it strange that you would, considering people on this forum have considered all sides of business decisions for like.. over a decade.

 

[Lom1lo]

Situation is overblown by people who don't understand both the technical, security and legal issues involved in this.

what ? I guess connecting with xbl is more secure than with pc lol

 

[SmokedMeat]

Of course, for dlc or niche games, but the overall picture is that ps4 userbase would get very limited improvements, considering that already have pc xplay, and the ones that would really see the population in online games boosted would be xb users.
And that doesn't make sense for Sony at all.
As it didn't fit ms past generation.

Actually Microsoft tried splitting the PC community up by preventing Windows Store users from playing Steam users, not even a year ago.

 

[Lom1lo]

Actually Microsoft tried splitting the PC community up by preventing Windows Store users from playing Steam users, not even a year ago.

Just because something wasnt implemented it doesnt mean it was prevented by microsoft. Or is there an actual source for this ? If this is true its utter bullshit and good that they dont do this anymore (rise of nations)

 

[SmokedMeat]

Just because something wasnt implemented it doesnt mean it was prevented by microsoft. Or is there an actual source for this ? If this is true its utter bullshit and good that they dont do this anymore (rise of nations)

They did it with CoD AW.

The only reason they did a 180 because they failed miserably.

 

[Spades]

Cause it is usually the same people posting the same comment in every cross platform thread.

So because they're right, and Sony are screwing over the players, they should just stop posting - even though Sony keeps pulling this bullshit?

 

[LordKano]

I find it strange that you would, considering people on this forum have considered all sides of business decisions for like.. over a decade.

I think there's a pretty big difference between considering all side of a business decision, which means trying to understand the purpose of said decision (which is fine and most of the time necessary to enhance the discussion) and use the reasoning of Sony like some sort of damage control shield to justify why we shouldn't complain about that.

 

[Lom1lo]

They did it with CoD AW.

The only reason they did a 180 because they failed miserably.

Again where is the source that ms prevented this from happening and that it wasnt just the dev who didnt bother ? I would really like to see this

 

[zelas]

It goes both ways though, it's not about benefitting you, it's about benefitting their own users that currently can't play with Xbox owners.

That would only make sense if sony had a limited install base as well. They don't, and really never did struggle on that front overall with any of their consoles. Besides, where most people are playing is a choice consumers are already going to have to consider when it comes to picking a console that is likely to get the most third party support. When they're picking the market leader, or someone with a similar install base, crossplay isn't a concern because they're already going to have a sizable base to work with.

 

[tzare]

Who cares about what makes sense for Sony, can't you think about what makes sense for you, the consumer, and not what is in the benefit of the multimillion dollars company ?
I find the mentality of "I'm fine with it because it makes sense for Sony to apply x anti-consumer policy" mindblowing.

I enjoy Sony consoles and their first party output much more than any other platform holder, by a huge margin, so my interest as a gamer is that they continue to be stronger than competition, especially considering how Nintendo, with their 'different' hardware, and MS with their us centric model are very far from my tastes.
In fact i also consider that a console that leads by a huge margin is better since you can find almost all the games there.
So, does this make sense for you?

Edit. See above, too.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Again where is the source that ms prevented this from happening and that it wasnt just the dev who didnt bother ? I would really like to see this

You need a source of proof that it wasn't Microsoft? You think the developer just figured they'd go out of their way to split the PC community? That makes sense?

 

[Uno Venova]

I think there's a pretty big difference between considering all side of a business decision, which means trying to understand the purpose of said decision (which is fine and most of the time necessary to enhance the discussion) and use the reasoning of Sony like some sort of damage control shield to justify why we shouldn't complain about that.

There is, but saying "I see why Sony likes it, so stop complaining" and "This doesn't really affect me and I see why Sony likes it." are two different arguments, and in my opinion, the latter argument has been happening way more than the former.

 

[Freeman76]

If I had a business I would do the same

 

[LordKano]

There is, but saying "I see why Sony likes it, so stop complaining" and "This doesn't really affect me and I see why Sony likes it." are two different arguments, and in my opinion, the latter argument has been happening way more than the former.

I personally think that going on a thread about a legitimate issue just to claim that you're not affected so you don't give a shit about the people who are affected is just as bad as defending a corporate anti-consumer decision.

 

[Lom1lo]

You need a source of proof that it wasn't Microsoft? You think the developer just figured they'd go out of their way to split the PC community? That makes sense?

so you are talking out of your ass then, good.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Microsoft has the same mindset with regard to cross platforms and exclusives in the 360 era. It's only that they're doing so poorly that they're starting the "we don't believe in exclusives" spiel.

I'd prefer cross platform play but can totally appreciate why Sony isn't going for it. They're dominating atm.

 

[SmokedMeat]

so you are talking out of your ass then, good.

Actually I just read up on it, and I was wrong. Or at least Microsoft's blaming Activision for not enabling it. It makes no sense, but that appears to be the case.

 

[Maledict]

I don't understand why this is surprising or confusing for people. Sony don't want this now in the same way Microsoft didn't in the last generation.

The market leader has *nothing* to gain by allowing other consoles cross platform gaming. In fact it directly hurts them. Social pressure is a huge factor in the console you buy, and people buy the same console their friends have so they can play with them. By allowing cross play, you remove that incentive.

They would be actively hurting their sales and incentives to buy a PlayStation by allowing this.

 

[Volta Mars]

I find it strange that you would, considering people on this forum have considered all sides of business decisions for like.. over a decade.

It's really disheartening to see such a stance and then the constant need to justify it.

 

[CookTrain]

Actually I just read up on it, and I was wrong. Or at least Microsoft's blaming Activision for not enabling it. It makes no sense, but that appears to be the case.

I wonder if they were hoping for people who bought on the Windows Store to double-dip.

 

[Lom1lo]

I don't understand why this is surprising or confusing for people. Sony don't want this now in the same way Microsoft didn't in the last generation.

The market leader has *nothing* to gain by allowing other consoles cross platform gaming. In fact it directly hurts them. Social pressure is a huge factor in the console you buy, and people buy the same console their friends have so they can play with them. By allowing cross play, you remove that incentive.

They would be actively hurting their sales and incentives to buy a PlayStation by allowing this.

Since there is no crossnetwork chat I strongly believe that you are still locked into your friends choice if you want to play with them. All crossplay will do for the majority of people is making the playerpool bigger and this is also good for sony.
And the playerpool, do we honestly think that the someone decides to buy a playstation because there are 70k players for cod vs 50k on xbox ?
People outside a gaming forum dont even know how the populations look like

 

[Purest 78]

If Sony says No to CP are people gonna Switch to Xbox To play against PC players, instead of playing against PC players on Ps4?

No I don't think so people can't separate personal feelings from Buisness. As a Buisness owner myself I can't think of a reason Sony would allow it.

 

[mugurumakensei]

They seemingly forbid Xbox contact. So if any other platform can touch Xbox Live at the same time as PSN, they won't allow it.

PC is fine. Switch is probably fine. PC or Switch that can also play with Xbox Live at the same time... no go.

Nope. We know from DQ X that Sony is not fine with Switch. Sony requires a separate subscription than all other platforms.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I wonder if they were hoping for people who bought on the Windows Store to double-dip.

I think some of those people got refunds because the community was nonexistent from day one.

 

[Maledict]

Since there is no crossnetwork chat I strongly believe that you are still locked into your friends choice if you want to play with them. All crossplay will do for the majority of people is making the playerpool bigger and this is also good for sony.
And the playerpool, do we honestly think that the someone decides to buy a playstation because there are 70k players for cod vs 50k on xbox ?
People outside a gaming forum dont even know how the populations look like

PlayStation doesn't need a larger pool of players. It is by far and away the market leader in all territories. At these numbers, adding in more players doesn't add any benefit to consumers at all.

And people don't buy the PlayStation because it has 70k players, they buy the PlayStation because the odds are their mates have one and they want to play with them. That's the network effect in action. It helps the market leader and punishes the smaller user base consoles, and it's a self feeding loop (more people buy one brand to play with their friends, which increases the effect, which leads to more sales etc). We've had numerous stories about entire groups switching over to the PlayStation - my own friends did it as well.

I'm not saying it's a good thing for gamers at all, but there's clear and logical reasons for Sony to behave this way and if I was in their shoes I'd do the same. It's bad business to give a smaller competitor a leg up and to remove one of the reasons people buy your product for absolutely no gain at all.

 

[Lom1lo]

PlayStation doesn't need a larger pool of players. It is by far and away the market leader in all territories. At these numbers, adding in more players doesn't add any benefit to consumers at all.

And people don't buy the PlayStation because it has 70k players, they buy the PlayStation because the odds are their mates have one and they want to play with them. That's the network effect in action. It helps the market leader and punishes the smaller user base consoles, and it's a self feeding loop (more people buy one brand to play with their friends, which increases the effect, which leads to more sales etc). We've had numerous stories about entire groups switching over to the PlayStation - my own friends did it as well.

I'm not saying it's a good thing for gamers at all, but there's clear and logical reasons for Sony to behave this way and if I was in their shoes I'd do the same. It's bad business to give a smaller competitor a leg up and to remove one of the reasons people buy your product for absolutely no gain at all.

If it doesnt need more players, why does crossplay with pc exists ? Older games like bf4 would benefit, this game peaks at 20k vs 15k players. I didnt look up dlc servers but I imagine they are a bit empty on both plattforms.
Your second paragraph is exactly what I meant, sony could make rules that you cant interact with playstation players so you are still locked in your friends purchase. It would give older or less popular games more players.
And if you choose minecraft as example, they dont give ms a leg up in joining crossplay. Its the other way arround in this case.

 

[Audioboxer]

Much like the Sonic Cycle (or Arsenal Cycle for football fans) someone really needs to start memeing the Arrogance Cycle for these games companies.

Every. single. time. one of them is on top outcomes the hate boners and $$$ lusting from the suits against the audience that put them in #1. Followed up with months if not years of the audience defending their shit (stockholm syndrome?), before reality sets in and the backlash happens. Then there is the fall from grace, back into #2 place and the humble "we've learned and want to do better" gets rolled out. Rinse/repeat.

 

[Goodacre0081]

I would really love to see a developer/publisher stand up to Sony with a big title and push for crossplay. give them a choice, either allow crossplay or miss out on a big game and give XB1 an exclusive.

also, what happens when FFXIV comes to XB1? is Sony going to force Square to give PS4 players their own servers? that's not going to happen.

 

[ArtHands]

Who cares about what makes sense for Sony, can't you think about what makes sense for you, the consumer, and not what is in the benefit of the multimillion dollars company ?
I find the mentality of "I'm fine with it because it makes sense for Sony to apply x anti-consumer policy" mindblowing.

I think every companies will love to have such loyal fans who will think from their perspective every time like that

 

[Panajev2001a]

Much like the Sonic Cycle (or Arsenal Cycle for football fans) someone really needs to start memeing the Arrogance Cycle for these games companies.

Every. single. time. one of them is on top outcomes the hate boners and $$$ lusting from the suits against the audience that put them in #1. Followed up with months if not years of the audience defending their shit (stockholm syndrome?), before reality sets in and the backlash happens. Then there is the fall from grace, back into #2 place and the humble "we've learned and want to do better" gets rolled out. Rinse/repeat.

Almost as if corporations believed in an invest and exploit mentality .

 

[M.D]

I would really love to see a developer/publisher stand up to Sony with a big title and push for crossplay. give them a choice, either allow crossplay or miss out on a big game and give XB1 an exclusive.

also, what happens when FFXIV comes to XB1? is Sony going to force Square to give PS4 players their own servers? that's not going to happen.

Allow us crossplay or we'll lose the biggest userbase on the market. Your move, Sony!

 

[Kaako]

Corporations, not even once.

 

[Audioboxer]

Almost as if corporations believed in an invest and exploit mentality .

True. Thankfully we don't have an outright monopoly, as there's nothing worse when there is genuinely no competition. The cycle above is the best fail-proof we actually have to knock corporations down a peg or two when it's their time to be arrogant.

If you're Konami though, you just YOLO and quadruple down.

 

[YaBish]

I really don't understand the "smart business move" argument.

I feel like the Xbox base is a certain type of gamer and the majority probably aren't looking to buy a PS4 anyway, so it's not going to hurt PS4 sales to allow it. On the other hand, for the large portion of gamers who aren't company fanboys, and actually go where the games are each generation, there are a lot like myself who have a PS4 now but had a 360 last generation. Due to that, I have a lot of friends I miss playing with on XBL and heavily consider buying an XBone to play things like Rocket League with them.

Sony can easily avoid me giving them that sale by giving the green light.

This put my thoughts into words better than I could.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I personally think that going on a thread about a legitimate issue just to claim that you're not affected so you don't give a shit about the people who are affected is just as bad as defending a corporate anti-consumer decision.

I think various opinions need to be shared or gaf (which it tends to do) will take that as a sign that everyone is on board and act like it's a bigger issue than it is. Personally, I really don't care about cross play either and consider the topic very overblown, but people just love the chance to throw out "anticonsumer" every chance they get. It's honestly pretty simple. When not having cross play with Xbox affects their business, Sony will greenlight it. Otherwise, they have no reason to bother and I don't blame em personally. They're responsible for the size of their base, not anyone else's.

Disclaimer: I own a switch, two x1s and a PS4. No dog in any fanboy race.

I would really love to see a developer/publisher stand up to Sony with a big title and push for crossplay. give them a choice, either allow crossplay or miss out on a big game and give XB1 an exclusive.

also, what happens when FFXIV comes to XB1? is Sony going to force Square to give PS4 players their own servers? that's not going to happen.

That'd be a pretty dumb decision. No company in their right mind is going to do that for an issue most people don't care about.

Sony the Crusader for children's safety. Keep them in that bastion of smaller number of players. Who needs more people for a multiplayer game to thrive and grow?

Sony, Microsoft, whoever isn't responsible for growing communities on anything but their platforms, which are already thriving. You're talking like there's no one to play with on PS4. Not even counting the PC crossplay many games have already.

 

[BaasRed]

Sony the Crusader for children's safety. Keep them in that bastion of smaller number of players. Who needs more people for a multiplayer game to thrive and grow?

 

[Head.spawn]

Actually Microsoft tried splitting the PC community up by preventing Windows Store users from playing Steam users, not even a year ago.

Thats not accurate at all, not even a year ago they announced from day one that any Win10 Store game/Xbox game could potentially work with any outside network. To say they blocked it is completely bogus, but to say games where development was started and budgeted before this stance took place and released without the connectivity; that would be a valid point.

They have a game releasing in three weeks with WinStore crossplay with Steam. They have Xbox One games already with compatibility with Steam. Literally their day one goal was with a Steam game, how can you say they blocked it?

They didn't mention specifics with Killer Instinct on Steam... wanna wager which way that one will go?

 

[Goodacre0081]

I don't understand why this is surprising or confusing for people. Sony don't want this now in the same way Microsoft didn't in the last generation.

The market leader has *nothing* to gain by allowing other consoles cross platform gaming. In fact it directly hurts them. Social pressure is a huge factor in the console you buy, and people buy the same console their friends have so they can play with them. By allowing cross play, you remove that incentive.

They would be actively hurting their sales and incentives to buy a PlayStation by allowing this.

I really don't understand the "smart business move" argument.

I feel like the Xbox base is a certain type of gamer and the majority probably aren't looking to buy a PS4 anyway, so it's not going to hurt PS4 sales to allow it. On the other hand, for the large portion of gamers who aren't company fanboys, and actually go where the games are each generation, there are a lot like myself who have a PS4 now but had a 360 last generation. Due to that, I have a lot of friends I miss playing with on XBL and heavily consider buying an XBone to play things like Rocket League with them.

Sony can easily avoid me giving them that sale by giving the green light.

why are we under the assumption these networks will be able to work with each other like this? searching for people, friends lists, party chat and invites all wont be able to work. unless each game requires you to use its own account system with usernames. that kinda sucks