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[UnObtainium17]

Parity is unfair tbh. If you payed for the game you should get the best possible version of the game that your console can run. Not the weakest consoles level of performance. Crossed out this game as my day one purchase. It wouldnt matter in the grand scheme but at least i made a stand and pretty sure it wont be difficult to find other great games that maximizes its potential on the platform i got.

Whats really fair is that everyones will be owning a game that is able to fully utilize the best out of the console they own.

 

[mocoworm]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game is a PS4 bottleneck and vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual titles until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

 

[MDSLKTR]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game is a PS4 bottleneck and vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

Your tag is definitely fitting

 

[Chobel]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE.

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

Or maybe Ubisoft didn't optimize PS4 code? Which is the the most likely scenario here.

Also Batman doesn't have thousands of NPCs, so the game won't be CPU bound.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

As someone said in an earlier thread, using a broken and unoptimized game like Unity as a benchmark for console performance is like trying to decide whether Mexican food is better than Chinese by only eating at Taco Bell and Panda Express.

 

[Radec]

Your tag is definitely fitting

yep.

already did. lol

 

[vanx0]

Your tag is definitely fitting

beaten.

 

[Ateron]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

Again, it was debated yesterday on how this may be false. Several developers have stated that they were squeezing more out of the ps4's cpu than the x1's. Matt also said as much a few months back. Yesterday he showed up on the thread and made it seem like there was no explanation for the results on DF's analysis. Not that they're wrong, it just seems something went terribly wrong during development.

There's no logical reason (assuming that what they said about the 2 cpus is true, and that there's not a single part of the x1 that outperforms its ps4 counterpart) for that to have happened. I chalk this up to Ubi being Ubi. Other studios know better, or at least, none have given me reason to think otherwise yet. Time will tell if the ps4 really has a weak point against x1 or if this was just a fluke. I'm betting on the latter, to be honest.

 

[Wavebossa]

Dear Devs:

Please optomise your game for every single platform and try to take advantage of strenghts of every platform.

Why the HELL wouldn't you anyway?

Money, Time, Resources, Development Cycle, etc etc.

But the biggest reason is... it makes no difference to the bottom line. Most of you are gonna buy this game anyway, so why optimize?

I'm not saying that I agree, but I can see why they don't care. We gamers talk with our keyboards and our mouths, but very rarely (unfortunately) with our wallets.

 

[Ateron]

Money, Time, Resources, Development Cycle, etc etc.

But the biggest reason is... it makes no difference to the bottom line. Most of you are gonna buy this game anyway, so why optimize?

I'm not saying that I agree, but I can see why they don't care. We gamers talk with our keyboards and our mouths, but very rarely (unfortunately) with our wallets.

Weren't those important last gen as well? I don't remember "parity" last gen. If the ps3 was armstrung by its less than ideal memory set up or difficult to program cpu, they would get the lesser version. I know cause I've had them for the better half of the generation, at the very least.
Why won't it happen again this gen, this time with the odds on playstation's favor?

 

[Chobel]

mocoworm must be secretly wishing every game is CPU bound.

 

[Always-honest]

Money, Time, Resources, Development Cycle, etc etc.

But the biggest reason is... it makes no difference to the bottom line. Most of you are gonna buy this game anyway, so why optimize?

I'm not saying that I agree, but I can see why they don't care. We gamers talk with our keyboards and our mouths, but very rarely (unfortunately) with our wallets.

I can see this happening with big companies where the devs themselves don't have the final word. I'm honestly have a lot of faith in the integrity of creative people.
Whenever i sepak to them or when i read about them, they always seem to be willing to go the extra mile to make sure they overdelivero n waht was expected of them. Unfortunately there are a bunch of decision making assholes that ruin a big part of the fun and ambition of these hardworking and creative people.

But you're right. Most people who buy games don't even read a forum like this. We're a vocal minority.

 

[The Nature Roy]

But the biggest reason is... it makes no difference to the bottom line. Most of you are gonna buy this game anyway, so why optimize?

Parity only hurts the developer/publisher's bottom line.

Arkham Knight PS4 isn't competing for sales versus Arkham Knight Xbox One. A sale either way is a sale for WB. They shouldn't really care which version you buy. However, what Arkham Knight PS4 is really competing against is other PS4 titles... And if it has parity forced upon it, it will suffer in comparison to PS4 games that don't.

The best way to maximize sales would be to make each version the best it can possibly be on its respective platform (given budget and time constraints) so that it's not handicapped in comparison to other games a PS4 (or Xbox One or PC) owner can chose from.

 

[KooopaKid]

Having played Arkham Origins this week-end, I'm less interested in AK all of a sudden. No chance it's going to be anything other than more of the same. I can wait.

 

[statham]

Having played Arkham Origins this week-end, I'm less interested in AK all of a sudden. No chance it's going to be anything other than more of the same. I can wait.

That game was a cash in and in development for under a year I believe, this game should be the real deal.

 

[GreyOcelot]

as long as it's not 900/25 like unity, i'll be there day one

 

[oni-link]

Parity only hurts the developer/publisher's bottom line.

Arkham Knight PS4 isn't competing for sales versus Arkham Knight Xbox One. A sale either way is a sale for WB. They shouldn't really care which version you buy. However, what Arkham Knight PS4 is really competing against is other PS4 titles... And if it has parity forced upon it, it will suffer in comparison to PS4 games that don't.

The best way to maximize sales would be to make each version the best it can possibly be on its respective platform (given budget and time constraints) so that it's not handicapped in comparison to other games a PS4 (or Xbox One or PC) owner can chose from.

Well then it depends on this, does the cost of optimizing them both for each platform cost more than the money they will lose from a handful of people boycotting the title based solely on them deciding to aim for parity?

If it doesn't, then expect a lot of devs to go with parity this gen

 

[On Demand]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game is a PS4 bottleneck and vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

You really believe 1.6gz vs 1.75gz is a large enough difference for performance issues on PS4? Then what of the PS4's GPU advantage?????????? ACU should be running at 1080p on PS4. Games like Destiny and Alien Isolation should be at 60fps. This parity BS shouldn't exist.


Come on man.

 

[The Nature Roy]

Well then it depends on this, does the cost of optimizing them both for each platform cost more than the money they will lose from a handful of people boycotting the title based solely on them deciding to aim for parity?

If it doesn't, then expect a lot of devs to go with parity this gen

It's not money lost to boycotts so much as it is lost to more impressive games.

And I don't think parity is a no-cost option. To reach to parity, you have to play a careful balancing game and you're still optimizing the PS4 version in a sense... just optimizing it to an artificially restrained level.

 

[oni-link]

It's not money lost to boycotts so much as it is lost to more impressive games.

And I don't think parity is a no-cost option. To reach to parity, you have to play a careful balancing game and you're still optimizing the PS4 version in a sense... just optimizing it to an artificially restrained level.

Honestly don't know enough about optimising to know how much of a time or money sink it is, but the Xbone and PS4 are quite similar to PC's aren't they? Whereas the 360 and PS3 were completely different, so if anything it must be a lot easier to attain parity than it was last gen

Your point about graphics is a valid one, if we have a lot of devs going with parity, the ones that push the PS4 to its limits will produce games that look so much better than the parity ports that it will be noticeable, but i don't really think that matters, people won't not buy Batman because Uncharted 4 looks a lot better instead of just looking a bit better

They buy Batman because it's Batman by Rocksteady, i mean, CoD is never in the top tier of games released each year graphically and it doesn't hurt its sales at all

 

[KooopaKid]

That game was a cash in and in development for under a year I believe, this game should be the real deal.

Yeah but from the E3 demo, other than the batmobile and the incredible graphics, it's fundamentally the same setting and mechanics. It's already the 4th iteration in 6 years.
I was excited, now my expectations are lowered. More of the same can be alright. It's the inherent limitation of a Batman game design.

 

[BigDug13]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game is a PS4 bottleneck and vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

AC Unity runs like shit on PC as well with quite beefy CPU's. The game was rushed, it's that simple.

 

[Wavebossa]

Weren't those important last gen as well? I don't remember "parity" last gen. If the ps3 was armstrung by its less than ideal memory set up or difficult to program cpu, they would get the lesser version. I know cause I've had them for the better half of the generation, at the very least.
Why won't it happen again this gen, this time with the odds on playstation's favor?

Its because the PS4 is far more similar to the Xbox1 than the PS3 was to the xbox360. Is the PS4 more powerful? Yes, but the architecture doesn't require you to build a game form teh ground up again.

However the PS3 cell-structure processing required a longer Dev cycle and a complete recalculation of resources vs the Xbox360 xeons. So there would be a longer Dev cycle regardless. So, that being said, they were already going to rebuild certain parts (A.I. comes to mind) for the PS3 version.

However, this gen, both are basically amd apus. One is just more powerful than the other.

 

[mocoworm]

You really believe 1.6gz vs 1.75gz is a large enough difference for performance issues on PS4? Then what of the PS4's GPU advantage?????????? ACU should be running at 1080p on PS4. Games like Destiny and Alien Isolation should be at 60fps. This parity BS shouldn't exist.


Come on man.

I'm just going off what was said in the AC:U thread about the analysis yesterday and the DF article. I am not well versed enough on CPU's etc to know this stuff myself. I just read what I can.

Again, it was debated yesterday on how this may be false. Several developers have stated that they were squeezing more out of the ps4's cpu than the x1's. Matt also said as much a few months back. Yesterday he showed up on the thread and made it seem like there was no explanation for the results on DF's analysis. Not that they're wrong, it just seems something went terribly wrong during development.

I missed that part and didn't know that info.

I just think that sometimes things aren't always black and white. There are grey areas that we may not be aware of, that's all.

 

[FoneBone]

I may have missed something, but what prompted the change in thread title? Is there a new quote from the devs beyond what's in the OP?

(Or am I wrong about the thread title changing?)

 

[mrklaw]

Dear Devs:

Please optomise your game for every single platform and try to take advantage of strenghts of every platform.

Why the HELL wouldn't you anyway?

Ideally they would, but if you have a fixed budget and fixed timescale, and you need to spend more energy to get the Xbox version up to eg 900/30, and less energy to get PS4 there, then you may just end up putting more effort into the Xbox version because it is needed.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Yeah but from the E3 demo, other than the batmobile and the incredible graphics, it's fundamentally the same setting and mechanics. It's already the 4th iteration in 6 years.
I was excited, now my expectations are lowered. More of the same can be alright. It's the inherent limitation of a Batman game design.

This is why I skipped Origins altogether.

 

[mocoworm]

mocoworm must be secretly wishing every game is CPU bound.

Why?

 

[Wavebossa]

Parity only hurts the developer/publisher's bottom line.

Arkham Knight PS4 isn't competing for sales versus Arkham Knight Xbox One. A sale either way is a sale for WB. They shouldn't really care which version you buy. However, what Arkham Knight PS4 is really competing against is other PS4 titles... And if it has parity forced upon it, it will suffer in comparison to PS4 games that don't.

The best way to maximize sales would be to make each version the best it can possibly be on its respective platform (given budget and time constraints) so that it's not handicapped in comparison to other games a PS4 (or Xbox One or PC) owner can chose from.

It would be a great gaming world if the bolded part was true in every gamer's mind. But the vast majority of gamers have no idea what small/big changes are made for optimization. They basically see the xbox1 version and the ps4 version as identical. I know this shouldn't be the case, but it is.

 

[KOMANI]

I didn't hear developers scream parity when the Wii U was struggling along the next gen consoles.

I paid for a console, I expect developers to utilize everything within that console. Once again, the Playstation brand suffers, just this time it's not because it's too difficult to develop for but because... I don't know, why is PARITY an issue NOW?

 

[RexNovis]

I'm just going off what was said in the AC:U thread about the analysis yesterday and the DF article. I am not well versed enough on CPU's etc to know this stuff myself. I just read what I can.



I missed that part and didn't know that info.

I just think that sometimes things aren't always black and white. There are grey areas that we may not be aware of, that's all.

Well yea but you can't see any grey areas on XB1! Console of teh foreva #crushedblacks #datpop

Spoiler

Obviously /sarcasm

 

[oni-link]

I didn't hear developers scream parity when the Wii U was struggling along the next gen consoles.

I paid for a console, I expect developers to utilize everything within that console. Once again, the Playstation brand suffers, just this time it's not because it's too difficult to develop for but because... I don't know, why is PARITY an issue NOW?

Did OG Xbox owners demand a better version of PS2 games back in the day?

It's not really a good parallel because the Xbox didn't sell anywhere close to the PS2 so it made sense to focus on the PS2

Which is weird because the PS4 is outselling the Xbone by a considerable amount, if this continues surely it won't make any sense to not focus on the PS4 version of a game

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Did OG Xbox owners demand a better version of PS2 games back in the day?

They didn't have to; they got it without asking since the hardware was more powerful. The intentional pursuit of parity of the gen is just bizarre.

 

[oni-link]

They didn't have to; they got it without asking since the hardware was more powerful.

I never had an OG Xbox so i didn't know that

Unless the Xbone starts to at least close the gap on the PS4 it would be so strange to see the market leader held back for no real reason

 

[McLovin]

This would almost make me want to get a gaming PC, but then I realize the PC versions are getting fucked even more for the sake of parity. I guess we have this generations evil buzz word.

 

[BigDug13]

Did OG Xbox owners demand a better version of PS2 games back in the day?

It's not really a good parallel because the Xbox didn't sell anywhere close to the PS2 so it made sense to focus on the PS2

Which is weird because the PS4 is outselling the Xbone by a considerable amount, if this continues surely it won't make any sense to not focus on the PS4 version of a game

OG Xbox owners didn't have to "demand" a better version of PS2 games. A better version of PS2 games is exactly what they got due to the system being very easy to develop on and being far beefier in specs. The games simply came out and looked/performed better. Sometimes even squeezing a 720p option out of it, and at the very least almost always offering a progressive 480p option in contrast to PS2's 480i.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Yeah but from the E3 demo, other than the batmobile and the incredible graphics, it's fundamentally the same setting and mechanics. It's already the 4th iteration in 6 years.
I was excited, now my expectations are lowered. More of the same can be alright. It's the inherent limitation of a Batman game design.

To be fair:
- Rocksteady didn't develop Arkham:Origins
- The overall game design in AK looks like it's evolving. The city is redesigned and the addition of the Batmobile and its related mechanics looks like it'll evolve the core gameplay quite a bit - I'm sure the combat and on-foot traversal will be largely the same but to me it looks like they're shaking up the overall fundamentals.

 

[vesvci]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game is a PS4 bottleneck and vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual titles until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

Haha I get it.

Wait...what?

 

[scsa]

In conclusion , this generation of consoles is equal to Parity.

 

[nacimento]

Just optimize the PC version well, pls.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Rocksteady's previous games on PC have been exceptional iirc, so I have high hopes

Yup, my relatively low-powered laptop (with a mid-range GPU at best) can handle Batman:AC at a near locked 60fps minus the PhysX effects, to say nothing of my desktop.

 

[rothbart]

I always wonder this, but who DOESN'T "target" the same frame rate? By the very nature of differences in hardware, sometimes it's not possible but I doubt anyone starts out and says "Yeah, we're not even going to bother optimizing this platform... screw them..."

Every time I see a thread/article/tweet about a developer "aiming for" or "targeting" parity across multiple platforms I just roll my eyes as it's a useless statement that can never have the opposite stated publicly.

 

[Kezen]

Yup, my relatively low-powered laptop (with a mid-range GPU) can handle Batman:AC at a near locked 60fps minus the PhysX effects, to say nothing of my desktop.

To be fair Batman Arkham City's DX11 path ran very badly at launch. No visual bugs, no glitches, DX11 features superbly implemented but performance was rough. A patch fixed it for the most part.

"A life of its own" indeed. It's looking like Batman AK will be a showcase on PC as well.
Can't wait.

 

[virtualS]

Both ACU and Batman are nVidia sponsored titles on the PC side of things. Apparently ACU runs worse on AMD cards.

I wonder if this has anything to do with optimisation in AMD console land. Still no excuse for 100% content, resolution and framerate parity on console though.

 

[New002]

I know I'm way late to the party here but isn't it possible that the PS4 version will have additional enhancements besides the resolution and framerate that will differentiate it from the Xbox Version? Just because the resolution and framerate are the same doesn't necessarily make the experience truly identical.

If the game comes out and really is 1:1 then yeah that's pretty shitty.

 

[oni-link]

I know I'm way late to the party here but isn't it possible that the PS4 version will have additional enhancements besides the resolution and framerate that will differentiate it from the Xbox Version? Just because the resolution and framerate are the same doesn't necessarily make the experience truly identical.

If the game comes out and really is 1:1 then yeah that's pretty shitty.

That is what people thought would happen with ACU but that inexplicably runs better on the Xbone

 

[Kezen]

Both ACU and Batman are nVidia sponsored titles on the PC side of things. Apparently ACU runs worse on AMD cards.

I wonder if this has anything to do with optimisation in AMD console land. Still no excuse for 100% content, resolution and framerate parity on console though.

I don't think PC is the lead platform in either case so it most likely has no impact. The fact that it runs worse on AMD cards has everything to do with the fact that Gameworks features are optimized for Nvidia hardware.

 

[New002]

That is what people thought would happen with ACU but that inexplicably runs better on the Xbone

Weird. That's definitely unexpected.

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

I don't even care. Just don't overpromise, and make the game playable at launch without a bunch of glitches and bugs.

 

[Lemondish]

As we have learned from AC:Unity, sometimes the PS4 doesn't always perform better. It has become apparent that a CPU intensive game is a PS4 bottleneck and vastly under-performs on the PS4 when compared to the same code on XONE. (based on AC:U DF analysis)

What if Batman is very CPU intensive and, just like like AC:Unity, parity is being enforced to keep the PS4 up to the XONE version?

There are many things that we don't know about the development process of individual titles until we are told by the devs.

To assume that the PS4 is being held back is foolish until we know the facts.

No, what's apparent is that people actually believe this shit and have given their power as informed consumers away for the comfortable nontruths of misinformation.

A 9% deficiency on the CPU clock speed cannot, in any way, be the reason for a 20% framerate deficiency. Furthermore, a CPU bound game does not automatically limit the GPU performance. What Ubi has told you is a lie. Stop spreading it around - all you're doing is distracting from the fact that these developers are intentionally focusing their attention on the weaker system to the detriment of the more powerful box for unclear reasons.

The only thing that can be said to be apparent is that Ubisoft has attempted to obfuscate the fact that they've provided a buggy, unoptimized mess of a game that doesn't run sufficiently on either platform. Smart money suggests the bad PS4 performance was a result of resource mismanagement that benefited the X1 as lead platform and saw significant neglect shown to PS4 optimisation, but even that isn't necessarily apparent.

The fact stands that the CPU differences between these devices cannot, in any way, account for this discrepancy. It also fails to answer why a CPU bound game is also letting GPU resources lay idle. A rushed port job and insufficient optimisation for the PS4 is a better explanation than this ridiculous notion that 150mhz all of a sudden closed the gap.

Batman is shooting for parity because they've chosen to intentionally compromise the potential of the PS4 version for some unknown reason. I think folks are allowed to be upset that they aren't being sufficiently represented despite being part of the larger install base on the box with the easier to developer for and more powerful architecture. I think folks deserve to express their distaste in that arrangement.

I always wonder this, but who DOESN'T "target" the same frame rate? By the very nature of differences in hardware, sometimes it's not possible but I doubt anyone starts out and says "Yeah, we're not even going to bother optimizing this platform... screw them..."

Well, when they say parity, they are implicitly stating that they aren't even bothering to optimize for the PS4.