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[Orbis Tabula]

Yeah, I gotta say, if I were back on campus trying to organize an event like this and someone pointed out that I hadn't tried to cooperate with any black students or organizations, I'd be like "Oh shit you got me. I fucked up pretty bad there. Maybe they should be leading this fight since I clearly don't know what I'm talking about."

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I think I found the gofundme video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZO97ot6ddc

I don't have audio right now so I can't tell what is being said.

Here is also one about offensive halloween costumes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G49CHnrl6bM

Make a parody video where you play the character of an overzealous sjw, in effect trivializing actual issues that cause offense. I think it's understandable that people were suspicious of his motives.

 

[Slayven]

Agreed 100%. Shit is so condescendingly infuriating.

Don't bother the account is a burner.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think I found the gofundme video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZO97ot6ddc

I don't have audio right now so I can't tell what is being said.

Here is also one about offensive halloween costumes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G49CHnrl6bM

Jesus this guy is a massive douche.

 

[Dhuie]

The way everyone views each other is so messed up now. Their lenses are so tuned to these things they are blinded to the bigger picture.

Why can't i just be from Earth and i'm here to show support.

 

[Slayven]

Jesus this guy is a massive douche.

But it own black people to accept him because he wants to help

 

[Trojita]

The way everyone views each other is so messed up now. Their lenses are so tuned to these things they are blinded to the bigger picture.

Why can't i just be from Earth and i'm here to show support.

Because racism exists?

 

[xKilltheMx]

Because racism exists?

NO. I'm color blind therefore racism can't exist because I dont see race, which means I cant be racist and nobody else can be either because I am color blind you see.

 

[Netherscourge]

I see no problem here.

The white activists wanted to show support. The black activists wanted more involvement in the protest. The white activists conceded at the request of the black activists.

Everyone is cool with one another.

This is called communication. It works. People are being respectful toward sensitivities.

This is a good thing, not a bad thing. There are too many egos worried about personal appearances when what everyone should be concerned with is respecting one another in a common cause. The black activists are leading the cause, so the white activists should defer to them and consult with them when planning supporting protests. It makes the cause stronger.

 

[excelsiorlef]

But it own black people to accept him because he wants to help

Don't you get it Slayven if you don't let me and my white folk take the lead you'll never conquer racism.

I was an ally until I saw this happen man. How dare the BSU politely ask a guy with a history of tone deaf history of mocking race and class issues to not make their movement all about him.

 

[Guevara]

The allies model is kind of broken.

"Hey interested white/male/straight people! Don't actually do anything, just wait on the sidelines for instructions when the time comes. Oh, and don't even think of taking a strategic role in this movement" is kind of insulting/infantilizing.

But, by the same token it's not cool when allies just go off on their own and everyone looks disorganized. Not to mention... sometimes clearly allies have their own conflicting motivations.

This happens all the time: in the LGBT movement often allies are encouraged NOT to attend certain events, in the interest of creating a "safe space". Which again is kind of insulting. How does a movement best use "main stream" support? I have no idea.

 

[Kinitari]

Don't see if this was already asked but - is this a protest supporting black people, or just minorities in general?

Either way, I don't think they should have stopped the protest, or that there should be an expectation of consulting a minority group. Although it doesn't hurt.

I don't like the idea of putting roadblocks in front of people who want to help further social causes. And I don't like the idea of 'owning' a movement, because of gender or ethnicity or anything else.

 

[DrGonzo615]

Lol this is a nice microcosm of the entire college-left/progressive movement.

Collectively it would probably amount to something, but then ends up devolving into in-fighting and bullshit where movements become social clubs that want nothing to do with you unless you meet their strict 20-point requirement for entry.

 

[JDSN]

Lol this is a nice microcosm of the entire college-left/progressive movement.

Collectively it would probably amount to something, but then ends up devolving into in-fighting and bullshit where movements become social clubs that want nothing to do with you unless you meet their strict 20-point requirement for entry.

Where is the in-figthing?

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

This was handled well.

 

[Ovid]

Don't see if this was already asked but - is this a protest supporting black people, or just minorities in general?

Either way, I don't think they should have stopped the protest, or that there should be an expectation of consulting a minority group. Although it doesn't hurt.

I don't like the idea of putting roadblocks in front of people who want to help further social causes. And I don't like the idea of 'owning' a movement, because of gender or ethnicity or anything else.

That's exactly how I feel but apparently the protest organizer has posted stuff like this:

I think I found the gofundme video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZO97ot6ddc

I don't have audio right now so I can't tell what is being said.

Here is also one about offensive halloween costumes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G49CHnrl6bM

It's like others have said, it makes his motives look suspect.

 

[Ryaaan14]

I'm sorry but I imagined Andy Bernard and Here Comes Treble protesting lmao

 

[Lime]

Since people think that this is a problem for activist work, read/watch these basic pieces on allyship in different contexts

Chescaleigh: 5 Tips for Allies
Mattie Brice: Rethinking Allyship
Pickett's Tips for Allies

Also, fuck that guy, he's obviously a massive tool if those youtube videos are anything to go by.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Again folks. Look at those vidoes. This guy thinks asking for financial help for tuition is like asking for money for a 200 000$ Ferari and compared dressing up in racist costumes to dressing up as Batman.

Nothing was lost here.

 

[JDSN]

I think I found the gofundme video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZO97ot6ddc

I don't have audio right now so I can't tell what is being said.

Here is also one about offensive halloween costumes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G49CHnrl6bM

Oh, good thing ppl waited on all facts before jumping the gun.

 

[Slayven]

Oh, good thing ppl waited on all facts before jumping the gun.

JDSN this dude could be the next Tim Wise or Marrec

 

[lednerg]

I think I found the gofundme video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZO97ot6ddc

I don't have audio right now so I can't tell what is being said.

Here is also one about offensive halloween costumes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G49CHnrl6bM

Eh. The first one... it's a stretch to see that as him being 'classist' like the fb post said. Not saying it's funny, but come on. The second one seemed like it was bad up until the very end, when he shows someone in blackface and he is appropriately disgusted with it. I could see somebody not making it all the way through that video, and it's a damn long one for not much of a payoff.

Dude's a bit of a douche, and maybe an attention seeker, but I don't see him or his event as being malicious. It would have been better to make a separate fb group first, without his name attached. Then put the word out to the various clubs around campus to join up and, together, come up with an event. Him skipping those steps was where this all went to shit.

 

[Kinitari]

The allies model is kind of broken.

"Hey interested white/male/straight people! Don't actually do anything, just wait on the sidelines for instructions when the time comes. Oh, and don't even think of taking a strategic role in this movement" is kind of insulting/infantilizing.

But, by the same token it's not cool when allies just go off on their own and everyone looks disorganized. Not to mention... sometimes clearly allies have their own conflicting motivations.

This happens all the time: in the LGBT movement often allies are encouraged NOT to attend certain events, in the interest of creating a "safe space". Which again is kind of insulting. How does a movement best use "main stream" support? I have no idea.

I feel similar. I increasingly see articles or discussions that are titled like "How to ACTUALLY be a good ally" and the contents are essentially, wait until you're called upon.

Of course it varies, but just the idea of trying to police your allies, or even just calling them allies feels gross to me. I think i have different goals when it comes to forwarding the position of minorities, and it might have something to do with my upbringing, but even just creating this special category for people, with the general intention of them acting subservient to you feels wrong. I know that's a simplification, but my chest constricts whenever I see it.

 

[FortuneFaded]

I feel similar. I increasingly see articles or discussions that are titled like "How to ACTUALLY be a good ally" and the contents are essentially, wait until you're called upon.

Like the Avengers?

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Don't you get it Slayven if you don't let me and my white folk take the lead you'll never conquer racism.

This guy behind the protest may not have had pure motives, but to paint any white person with a desire to help end institutionalized racism with this brush is tone deaf and asinine.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

This is not even remotely comparable to the BLM protesting Bernie Sanders.

But they're black and protesting..how are they different?

I found this video to be very enlightening and I think interesting to consider when thinking about these protests happening nationwide.

Shame on that black girl for trying to stop that girl from speaking.

MonGoLoiD iXi
An ally. Not an alt.
Today, 10:43 AM

 

[radioactivez0r]

It's actually extremely important for white people to organize against racism, whether they do so under the auspices of black organizers or not. Not only because they hold substantial political capital but also because they can exercise social pressure among other whites that even outside of "mixed company", racism is unacceptable, in a way that black people cannot.

To use a different analogy from coffee, I would only consider it a positive thing for men to organize a protest against the abuse of women even if no women were part of the protest to begin with. It's important for men to do this independently amongst themselves, because men take cues on how to behave more from other men than they do women. And it would never be completely independent of concerns put forth by women's organizations.

When you are not a member of a group but consider yourself allied to them, and try to do something to help their cause, and are chastised for not doing it the exact right way, a common response is to throw up your hands and stop giving a shit, reasoning that your participation or input isn't wanted or needed.

If this group were trying to hijack the message, or making unfounded claims that hurt or contradicted the message of black organizers, then it would be more appropriate to take issue. But white people taking it upon themselves to organize against racism is something that should be encouraged.

This is well said. I see the point of the black students, I do, and maybe this is the fault of communicating on the internet, but there is just enough of a "we're gonna do it our way or not at all" vibe that seems counter-productive. Why not talk to them after it was held for future cooperation?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Eh. The first one... it's a stretch to see that as him being 'classist' like the fb post said. Not saying it's funny, but come on. The second one seemed like it was bad up until the very end, when he shows someone in blackface and he is appropriately disgusted with it. I could see somebody not making it all the way through that video, and it's a damn long one for not much of a payoff.

Dude's a bit of a douche, and maybe an attention seeker, but I don't see him or his event as being malicious. It would have been better to make a separate fb group first, without his name attached. Then put the word out to the various clubs around campus to join up and, together, come up with an event. Him skipping those steps was where this all went to shit.

He compared students asking for help to pay tuition (in a world where tuition costs are out of control) to asking for a 200 grand Ferrari.

He basically called financially struggling students, who were merely asking for help, entitled.

It's like a textbook definition of classcism.

 

[TheOohChild]

Oh, good thing ppl waited on all facts before jumping the gun.

Yeah, instead of asking why I should judge someone, it is way better to just take someone else's word that they deserve to be judged. Ridiculous.

And I can definitely see why they were skeptical about him. I don't think what I see completely lines up with the quote posted earlier, but it is completely reasonable to question his sincerity.

 

[glow]

Is this a blacklivesmatter protest or a protest for racial equality at the university?

 

[excelsiorlef]

This guy behind the protest may not have had pure motives, but to paint any white person with a desire to help end institutionalized racism with this brush is tone deaf and asinine.

Dude like at least half of this thread is people saying: "This is how you lose allies. This will just make white people not care."

Is this a blacklivesmatter protest or a protest for racial equality at the university?

Dude literally invoked the name of Missouri's Concerned Student 1950 name in his event title.

 

[JustenP88]

Sounds a lot worse/weirder than it actually seems to be. And that picture is bullshit.

Unfortunately, perception is often reality and this clickbait will turn people off whether that's right or not.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Since people think that this is a problem for activist work, read/watch these basic pieces on allyship in different contexts

Chescaleigh: 5 Tips for Allies
Mattie Brice: Rethinking Allyship
Pickett's Tips for Allies

Also, fuck that guy, he's obviously a massive tool if those youtube videos are anything to go by.

Thanks for the reads, they were interesting. What the hell does "life plain" mean though?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

This is well said. I see the point of the black students, I do, and maybe this is the fault of communicating on the internet, but there is just enough of a "we're gonna do it our way or not at all" vibe that seems counter-productive. Why not talk to them after it was held for future cooperation?

Man, read the rest of the thread.

 

[Kinitari]

Dude like at least half of this thread is people saying: "This is how you lose allies. This will just make white people not care."

Which doesn't mean what you said earlier is right. If you tell people they're doing something wrong and make them feel embarrassed or ashamed, often they don't want to do it again. It doesn't mean that you have to give up the reigns and leave it all up to someone else, those aren't the two options.

I really don't understand or like what's happening with this... Speaking down to "allies" thing. It feels segregated and uncomfortable to me. I don't understand it or this world where ethnicity becomes this huge dividing thing.

It feels the end result of this mindset isn't one where ethnicity doesn't matter.

 

[lednerg]

He compared students asking for help to pay tuition (in a world where tuition costs are out of control) to asking for a 200 grand Ferrari.

He basically called financially struggling students, who were merely asking for help, entitled.

It's like a textbook definition of classcism.

His character is a rich guy, who after seeing people in dire straights using Gofundme to ask for tuition help, uses it to ask for people to pay for his Ferrari. The character is unable to see the difference between his and their circumstances. It's not incredibly funny or anything, but that's the joke.

 

[TatteredHat]

Black Pro-Black protesters protesting White Pro-Black protesters, I somewhat understand the concerns but it just looks and sounds really silly.

 

[Slayven]

Which doesn't mean what you said earlier is right. If you tell people they're doing something wrong and make them feel embarrassed or ashamed, often they don't want to do it again. It doesn't mean that you have to give up the reigns and leave it all up to someone else, those aren't the two options.

I really don't understand or like what's happening with this... Speaking down to "allies" thing. It feels segregated and uncomfortable to me. I don't understand it or this world where ethnicity becomes this huge dividing thing.

It feels the end result of this mindset isn't one where ethnicity doesn't matter.

If you don't even talk to the people you claim to representing you are doing it wrong.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I don't think this is related to eugenics at all.

First off, the personal grievances individuals made to the man are all fair, those are personal responses to a public event and public comments the organizer put out there. BSU's response was more diplomatic. You can not paint the BSU with the same brush as some disgruntled individual facebookers. To even include them all under the same umbrella is racist in itself, as one person of color on facebook surely doesn't speak for all people of color.

Second, I think we should look at the word supporter. Generally that'd be someone who supports which generally is not done from a leading position but from the rear. He could have approached these organizations as a supporter and asked how to get involved, he didn't, he could have reached out to these organizations after organizing his event to collaborate he seemingly did not. To call him a supporter would require a very very loose sense of the word I think.

Third, I don't know who knows what's best for who but I do know that people know what they want better than others. That's ultimately what protests are about. Is everything BLM in general or the minority groups at Cornell what's best for their members? Who fucking knows? But I'm willing to bet you they themselves know what they want more than you, I or that other guy.
Time, from the screenshot it looks like it was scheduled so quickly that the BSU made their statement the day before it was set to go off.

Look, this is basic life shit in my opinion. A guy offended a couple of people and either learned his lesson or not. End of story. In life people are going to be offended by some things trivial. Maybe this wasn't trivial. I don't know! But you take these lessons as individual lessons. The facebook poster who said s/he felt this was making a mockery of their plight clearly took it bad. I'm sure others were indifferent. Others probably thought it was cool. I don't know. What I do know is that it's equally silly to say that people of color or any other minority groups should take all the "help" they can get in any fashion without feeling slighted, or at the least to hide their feelings, as it is to suggest that the people organizing events and planning to speak for them should not heed that groups feelings. Either way the minority group needs to shut up eh, that how it is?

In hindsight I probably just shouldn't of posted that post, as it seems it's being misconstrued. FWIW I hadn't eaten breakfast at the time of that post, and now the questionable motives of the organizer are better known to me.

Although he could've set this up as a mockery (the fact not a single black student was consulted on it either means he didn't try very hard to reach out or he was shunned by those students for a prior incident; it did say he joked about the movement in the past), it's also possible he could've meant this as a genuine gesture but had resistance from the very groups he was doing this in favor of due to past grievances.

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter; the event was shut down, the black Cornell students were right in questioning the aim of the protest, and so forth. I just hope that if the groups involved resolve the situation, perhaps a more collaborative and communicative protest/rally can be organized in the wake of this one. That's the best scenario that can come of this.

As to the bolded, I 100% agree with you on that. It's similar to my feelings of members of certain disenfranchised groups who feel they are "owed" the support of members of other disenfranchised groups simply b/c they've both been slighted. I'm reminded of that Patricia Arquette thing where she was basically complaining that blacks and gays need to do more for (white) women. It was an incredibly short-sighted comment on her part.

This guy behind the protest may not have had pure motives, but to paint any white person with a desire to help end institutionalized racism with this brush is tone deaf and asinine.

I was saying the same thing at first and while the general idea of your statement is true, this isn't a worthy situation to apply it to because it seems the organizer was being a bit of a tone-deaf sarcastic dick. The fact they didn't reach out to any black students for input either means he didn't care or had done something in the past to cause them to ignore him even if he was supposedly turning over a new leaf.

I think we need to ascertain the content of this guy's character more, tbh.

 

[Kinitari]

If you don't even talk to the people you claim to representing you are doing it wrong.

The issue isn't they didn't talk to any minorities or have any in their event, the concern was they didn't have enough and/or didn't consult any large groups. Even if i agreed that this is a prerequisite (I don't), I disagree with the approach entirely.

When i consider that I don't think these prerequisites are at all required, the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[YoungFa]

What a non issue to cancel a protest over. Looks more like a political move by the student group, as this kind of activitiy falls in their territory. And a protest this large would render them less relevant and therefore less important, which from my own experience sometimes can lead to less funding.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You guys have a lot of patience, humoring people

Salutes

 

[Shaffield]

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Which doesn't mean what you said earlier is right. If you tell people they're doing something wrong and make them feel embarrassed or ashamed, often they don't want to do it again. It doesn't mean that you have to give up the reigns and leave it all up to someone else, those aren't the two options.

I really don't understand or like what's happening with this... Speaking down to "allies" thing. It feels segregated and uncomfortable to me. I don't understand it or this world where ethnicity becomes this huge dividing thing.

It feels the end result of this mindset isn't one where ethnicity doesn't matter.

I can see how black people wouldn't want to be misrepresented by white people. It's been a constant struggle for decades, and I don't think the feelings of white allies is more important. In the end, black activists spoke up, white allies listened, and presumably life will go on with everyone understanding each other better. What's the problem in this?

 

[DerangedHermit]

What a non issue to cancel a protest over. Looks more like a political move by the student group, as this kind of activitiy falls in their territory. And a protest this large would render them less relevant and therefore less important, which from my own experience sometimes can lead to less funding.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What a non issue to cancel a protest over. Looks more like a political move by the student group, as this kind of activitiy falls in their territory. And a protest this large would render them less relevant and therefore less important, which from my own experience sometimes can lead to less funding.

Have you considered they're protective of their territory because it's constantly being undermined, misrepresented, or co-opted? Have you read this thread or watched any of the linked videos?

 

[Crimson_Gold]

What a non issue to cancel a protest over. Looks more like a political move by the student group, as this kind of activitiy falls in their territory. And a protest this large would render them less relevant and therefore less important, which from my own experience sometimes can lead to less funding.

This was all a ploy to maintain the funding for pizza at the monthly meeting. Shame on them for pretending to care about the message and the way it was distributed/represented. This group was more concerned on whether they could afford Papa Johns or Domino's.

 

[lednerg]

... Have you read this thread or watched any of the linked videos?

I think those videos are being slightly misconstrued. Looking at the other videos on his channel, he's what some would even consider an SJW, bringing up issues such as the segregated dorms on campus and mocking that Alpha Phi sorority video from a while back.

EDIT: I'm not defending how he went about organizing the event, just saying I don't see him as being malicious.

 

[ppor]

This issue's pretty much settled, but raises an uncomfortable general question.

Ideally, protest leadership should be run by people with a stake in an issue, those who will not back down from opposition or become subordinate to "false" allies. But no social movement is perfect, and former true believers can totally become worn down by in-fighting, accused by their idealistic counterparts as the dirty word: "moderate."

Also, the general public is largely unsympathetic or apathetic. The subset that are sympathetic also lie on a scale of support, from mere acknowledgement, to engaging a dialogue with friends and social media, to protest participation, to actual political canvassing. They all represent willing voters and letter-writers to congress, even if some are inartful in their support. A badly worded Tweet can be just as damaging as a badly run protest in the eyes of non-supporters. Even still, supporters of a movement are not fungible, getting rid of one will not guarantee a better ally will pop up.

Black people shouldn't have to settle for "false" allies, but looking throughout history, all white Americans could be classified as false allies. Is Lincoln a false ally to blacks, is Obama a false ally to gays? And when Democratic leadership and Al Gore conceded the 2000 election, did they sell out the Black Congressional Caucus? Of course, past historical behavior/expectations does not condemn our modern day movements to accept the same fate, but the realist in me highly doubts things will be different.

I get the point that white feelings >> black bodies, it's not right and on a karmic level, we shouldn't even have to protest racism in the first place. But meanwhile in our unjust world, somehow Donald Trump's ignorant remarks is drawing more weight than pictures of dead black men, among a huge percentage of people. People should continue to fight, but man, social movements will always be tough...

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I found this video to be very enlightening and I think interesting to consider when thinking about these protests happening nationwide.

Shame on that black girl for trying to stop that girl from speaking.

lol ohhh mongo.. what have you gotten yourself into now?

I can confirm that mongo is not a bad person, he is just misguided and ignorant on a lot of things. Shame he was banned with just a "piss off mate" because that only confirms his beliefs of this forum being a hivemind, despite me explaining otherwise ;b