Support NeoGAF

[norm9]

From USA Today- https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/07/13/creationism-evolution-template-for-easing-divisions-tom-krattenmaker-column/467800001/

Fundamentalists are vowing to make a last stand for God in Dayton, Tenn., on July 14 when a new statue will be installed on the courthouse lawn. Going up alongside a likeness of William Jennings Bryan is a depiction of Clarence Darrow, Bryan's pro-evolution adversary in Dayton's historic Scopes Monkey Trial of 1925.

The creationist organizing the protests is threatening to bring in a militia to thwart installation of the Darrow statue, which she calls an insult to God and Christians.

According to a Gallup poll conducted in May, the portion of the American public taking this position now stands at 38%, a new low in Gallup's periodic surveys. Fifty-seven percent accept the validity of the scientific consensus that human beings evolved from less advanced forms of life over millions of years.

As the poll reveals, the biggest factor in the shift is a jump in the number of Christians who are reconciling faith and evolution. They are coming to see evolution as their God's way of creating life on Earth and continuing to shape it today.

It's endlessly frustrating to secular and religious liberals, but the creationist view has held strong sway in this country in the decades since the famous Darrow-Bryan courtroom duel. Over recent decades, percentages in the upper-40s have taken the creationist position; the figure stood at 46% in Gallup's 2012 survey.

Tenacious anti-evolution resistance continues to influence debates over issues including public school curricula, government support for creationist installations like the Noah's Ark replica in Kentucky, and research access to national parks. A creationist researcher, for instance, claimed religious discrimination in his successful legal fight with the U.S. Park Service over its refusal to grant him access to collect rock samples. His purpose: marshaling evidence in support of the creationist belief that the Grand Canyon was created by a great global flood a relatively recent 4,300 years ago — the same flood that Noah and company are said to have ridden out on the ark.

Not surprising, in view of our growing secularization, the percentage of Americans taking the strict evolution view — no divine role — has grown significantly since the 1980s, from 9% to 19% in the latest Gallup survey.

But the latest movement in public opinion shows one-time creationists taking refuge not in the ”no-religion" zone but in ”both/and" position. The percentage of people choosing the hybrid view — around 30% in 2014 — was eight points higher in Gallup's poll.

For now, something to appreciate: Growing public rejection of an unhelpful creationism-vs.-evolution fight that does no favors for either religion or science. As more believers are wisely accepting, you can embrace both — and both are better for it.

If you can't beat 'em, steal the science and give god the credit.

Wiping out on the gnarly waves of the Grand Canyon if old.

 

[Mike M]

Honestly surprised given the overall regression on scientific literacy in the US in recent years.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I don't see anything wrong with people believing evolution is God's path of creation. It's a whole lot better than going with creationism

 

[Charles Brandon]

Wow. Those numbers...

 

[Machina]

Preview of one of the protestors:

 

[Ratrat]

Still laughably high.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Believing in God and believing in evolution aren't mutually exclusive so I'm cool with this.

These numbers track pretty closely to views on climate change from what I recall.

 

[Anteo]

Them believing evolution is true but part of god plan or whatever is much better than the alternative of 6000 years old earth abd that crap.

 

[AlexFlame116]

You can believe in God and believe in evolution as well.

I mean, someone once did call God the greatest scientist. I like how that sounds.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

38%!!!!!!

 

[JordanN]

What if creationism is only down because flat earth is making a comeback?

 

[AnotherNils]

38%!!!!!!

That's the same as Trump's approval rating. Coincidence?

 

[platakul]

What if creationism is only down because flat earth is making a comeback?

Tired: flat earth
Wired: cold sun

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Pretty annoyed with religious people fighting science as if a God wouldn't have created everything behind it. Like, why aren't they just against every tool man created? Really stupid.

 

[DJ_Lae]

I don't see anything wrong with people believing evolution is God's path of creation. It's a whole lot better than going with creationism

I agree. It's not like the two have to be completely separate, either, as if the existence of God automatically invalidates every single scientific explanation for something.

Having said that, 38% still feels high, but it's even weirder knowing that it was higher before.

 

[Zips]

That is outrageously high.

 

[Xe4]

38% is still waaaaaaaaaay too high. In fact, it's 38% too high. But much better than what it was and we can continue to push that number down.

It's imperative we don't let those 38% make our decisions for us and that we make our voices head, especially when it comes to our children's education.

I don't see anything wrong with people believing evolution is God's path of creation. It's a whole lot better than going with creationism

There is nothing wrong with believing god supported evolution, or god supported anything, really. It's not necessary, but it doesn't really hurt the science either (so long as one doesn't try to use god to explain a mechanism ala "god of the gaps").

The problem is fundamentalists pushing an extreme version of their religion that rejects science. The young earth creationists and the like.

 

[Steejee]

Still too damn high, but baby steps and all.

 

[Shauni]

I mean, ya'll cannot seriously be surprised at that 38% if you know anything about this country at all lol. I'm actually surprised it's not higher

 

[Dyle]

This brings me back to high school debate class when I argued that creationism shouldn't be taught in science classes alongside evolution. The class voted against me, which was the point that I realized that going to a top tier high school did not correlate to students actually being intelligent. I'm still salty about that 8 years later

 

[norm9]

There is nothing wrong with believing god supported evolution, or god supported anything, really. It's not necessary, but it doesn't really hurt the science either (so long as one doesn't try to use god to explain a mechanism ala "god of the gaps").

The problem is fundamentalists pushing an extreme version of their religion that rejects science. The young earth creationists and the like.

Yeah, this is my problem with the hybrid theory. It makes it too easy to use science as a trojan horse for god. Leads to less proactive people who want to know how/why things are beyond the magic answer of "God did it."

 

[Sky Chief]

Holy shit, twice as many Americans (38%) believe in Creationism than Strict Evolution (19%)!!

 

[norm9]

Holy shit, twice as many Americans (38%) believe in Creationism than Strict Evolution (19%)!!

We're still in the early part of our country's creation compared to most other countries (Im pretty sure). All the old habits and faults are still there and those stuck in the old ways will drag their feet.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

There is nothing wrong with believing god supported evolution, or god supported anything, really. It's not necessary, but it doesn't really hurt the science either (so long as one doesn't try to use god to explain a mechanism ala "god of the gaps").

The problem is fundamentalists pushing an extreme version of their religion that rejects science. The young earth creationists and the like.

No there's still something wrong with god supported evolution. Namely, that it's more unfalsifiable nonsense and a way for people to evolve an ignorant view into another ignorant view but somehow sound less ignorant.

Not to mention it seems to ignore the Bible even more while those same people continue to claim the Bible is definitely the word of god.

Convenient ignorance.

 

[The Kree]

An ever-receding pocket of ignorance.

 

[Xe4]

No there's still something wrong with god supported evolution. Namely, that it's more unfalsifiable nonsense and a way for people to evolve an ignorant view into another ignorant view but somehow sound less ignorant.

Not to mention it seems to ignore the Bible even more while those same people continue to claim the Bible is definitely the word of god.

Convenient ignorance.

There's lots of unfalsifiable nonsense people like to believe. Multiverses are one non-religious example. As long as people don't hold that god is necessary in evolution, or that what we don't know can be explained by god, I have no problems with people believing in both religion and science. They're not incompatible.

 

[Wilsongt]

I don't see anything wrong with people believing evolution is God's path of creation. It's a whole lot better than going with creationism

This is how I see it. Just say scientists are trying to understand God's creation more.

Better than saying the earth is only 6000 years old and Jesus rode on a dinosaur.

 

[alr1ght]

So they can continue to pick and choose what they want to believe from the Bible. Got it.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

38%???
That's still ridiculously high.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

So they can continue to pick and choose what they want to believe from the Bible. Got it.

But it always begs the question if one can pick and choose what to believe from the Bible, than why believe in any of it.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

So they can continue to pick and choose what they want to believe from the Bible. Got it.

Reading Genesis as an allegory isn't really picking and choosing seeing is that it was pretty much meant to be one to begin with.

 

[Drkirby]

I know they aren't Catholics, but when the Pope supports the theory of Evolution, I think you should reevaluate your stance. I guess they really don't want to admit the Bible's origin stories are not literal.

That's the same as Trump's approval rating. Coincidence?

 

[Servbot24]

Still laughably high.

Most creationists were taught it from an early age. They aren't necessarily stupid people (some are to be sure), they just were brainwashed from birth and it's really difficult to move on from that.

 

[mid83]

I believe in God and evolution. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

 

[Aaronrules380]

This is how I see it. Just say scientists are trying to understand God's creation more.

Better than saying the earth is only 6000 years old and Jesus rode on a dinosaur.

But how fucking metal would it be if he did

 

[norm9]

I believe in God and evolution. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

I wouldn't criticize your belief. However, if you used god as an answe to questions the scientific community is still working on with actual factual experiments, then there's a problem.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Most creationists were taught it from an early age. They aren't necessarily stupid people (some are to be sure), they just were brainwashed from birth and it's really difficult to move on from that.

Wasn't there a study done that showed a belief in a higher power is hardwired in humans?

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

There's lots of unfalsifiable nonsense people like to believe. Multiverses are one non-religious example. As long as people don't hold that god is necessary in evolution, or that what we don't know can be explained by god, I have no problems with people believing in both religion and science. They're not incompatible.

People don't stick to a world view, vote, treat other humans, support laws and regulations, based on multiverses.

Groups don't have protests and raise money to influence society because they believe we'll be better off as soon as we turn back to the belief in multiverses.

Absurd comparison.

 

[AuthenticM]

That's the same as Trump's approval rating. Coincidence?

no

 

[Xe4]

People don't stick to a world view, vote, treat other humans, support laws and regulations, based on multiverses.

Groups don't have protests and raise money to influence society because they believe we'll be better off as soon as we turn back to the belief in multiverses.

Absurd comparison.

So? Are you saying religion is a problem simply because it's unfalsifiable? I'm incredibly confused what argument you're even trying to make.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

So? Are you saying religion is a problem simply because it's unfalsifiable? I'm incredibly confused what argument you're even trying to make.

No, just saying we shouldn't compare belief in multiverses to belief in religious dogma.

 

[gaugebozo]

Wasn't the trend in the opposite direction? Maybe this is just a statistical quirk.

Edit: too lazy (or drunk) to find out, but I found this really snazzy graph:

 

[Tezzeractor]

That's the same as Trump's approval rating. Coincidence?

Based purely on my personal experience with people I know voted for Trump, not a coincidence.

 

[Dai101]

Wasn't the trend in the opposite direction? Maybe this is just a statistical quirk.

Edit: too lazy (or drunk) to find out, but I found this really snazzy graph:

Fuck that chart? Where's the rest of actual AMERICA?

 

[InsaneTiger]

I don't see anything wrong with people believing evolution is God's path of creation. It's a whole lot better than going with creationism

That's I what believe.

 

[Ponn]

I don't see anything wrong with people believing evolution is God's path of creation. It's a whole lot better than going with creationism

I mean as long as it means less religious zealots trying to run science out of school it's fine. It just all seems silly to me when you keep making changes to your beliefs because reality doesn't match the book you are cheery picking from. At what point do you start questioning the entire book and why you are continuing to follow it.

 

[traveler]

As an aside, it's interesting that creationism is the label that stuck. Christian proponents of evolution also believe God created everything; they just believe evolution is the path it took since to get where we are now. The debate seems to be more about the length of time and how much has changed over time from the beginning, not whether or not divinity created everything.

 

[All Possible Ways]

This is still way too high, this is from 2005 and is still basically right:

 

[norm9]

This is way to high, this is from 2005 and is still basically right:

Amazing were at the bottom with turkey.

 

[Beartruck]

Good. God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.