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[Stet]

Don't mistake "not getting it" for disagreeing with, and being dismayed by this reaction.

To me its like an episode of "My Super Sweet Sixteen" where the birthday kid throws a hissy fit because they just got a really nice car for their birthday, just not the exact thing they wanted/were promised.

Its childish, toys-out-the-pram, acting-out in my view. You don't summarily ignore and discard what you actually got, just because it isnt exactly what you wanted without being called a spoilt brat.

People are actually paying for this game. It's not a gift from the gods on high, Dark Souls, a boon granted just because we're good little boys and girls.

It's a product and they advertised it incorrectly and people are paying fifty to sixty dollars for it and it's not what they were told it is.

 

[Sephiroth87]

Don't mistake "not getting it" for disagreeing with, and being dismayed by this reaction.

To me its like an episode of "My Super Sweet Sixteen" where the birthday kid throws a hissy fit because they just got a really nice car for their birthday, just not the exact thing they wanted/were promised.

Its childish, toys-out-the-pram, acting-out in my view. You don't summarily ignore and discard what you actually got, just because it isnt exactly what you wanted without being called a spoilt brat.

So you're saying that when you go buy something, and they don't give you the thing you paid for and nobody told, it's fine as long as you actually get something?

"sorry the inside of your car is pink even if you asked for black, it's still a fast car, so we're good right?"

 

[HDgaming42]

Don't mistake "not getting it" for disagreeing with, and being dismayed by this reaction.

To me its like an episode of "My Super Sweet Sixteen" where the birthday kid throws a hissy fit because they just got a really nice car for their birthday, just not the exact thing they wanted/were promised.

Its childish, toys-out-the-pram, acting-out in my view. You don't summarily ignore and discard what you actually got, just because it isnt exactly what you wanted without being called a spoilt brat.

And you feel exactly the same way about Watch Dogs™? Wait--I just read your avatar tag...seems like I'm wasting my time.

People are actually paying for this game. It's not a gift from the gods on high, Dark Souls, a boon granted just because we're good little boys and girls.

It's a product and they advertised it incorrectly and people are paying fifty to sixty dollars for it and it's not what they were told it is.

Amen.

 

[Clear]

People are actually paying for this game. It's not a gift from the gods on high, Dark Souls, a boon granted just because we're good little boys and girls.

It's a product and they advertised it incorrectly and people are paying fifty to sixty dollars for it and it's not what they were told it is.

Whether you pay or not is beside the point. Is the situation really different whether you bought the game yourself or your parents/spouse/friend bought it for you. I thought this was about the "principle"?

The bottom line here is that some people are crying foul when there is NO LOGICAL REASON for From to deliberately deceive. They aren't going to drop features just to fuck with you. That's asinine.

 

[IrishNinja]

sorry for being so late on this, but...is there any chance this is just that one area? because there's no denying, said area looks absolutely terrible in comparison...just wondering if it's perhaps a late/rushed area like the last 3 or 4 in dark souls 1 got, or more indicative of the overall look of the game proper.

 

[allangelsgone]

People are actually paying for this game. It's not a gift from the gods on high, Dark Souls, a boon granted just because we're good little boys and girls.

It's a product and they advertised it incorrectly and people are paying fifty to sixty dollars for it and it's not what they were told it is.

I don't know about you but for me a new Souls game IS a gift from the Gods. The rest of your message is correct in that people don't have to buy it if they feel betrayed, but do not be fooled that this vocal minority that feels betrayed is the group that represents how we all feel about DS2. Personally I'd buy this if they went from 3D to 2D and didn't tell me about it and I'll likely double-dip for PS4 version if that comes this fall.

 

[big_z]

No such setting on mine as far as I can see (TX42GT50B).

It honestly looks better to me than a lot of the images in this thread. The lighting is genuinely useful in some places.

For example, the part in Forest of the Fallen Giants with lots of those big turtle enemies and sconces - it's very very dark without the sconces lit and lighting them makes fighting much easier. Working as intended??

Ya my panny is a bit older so I'm not sure what they changed the option to. It is black crushing in your case and while you are losing detail I do agree it looks better simply because the gamma is so fucked and needs to be fixed.

ill try to post comparison pictures later today with the black levels as they are with the broken gamma and mostly corrected gamma levels.

 

[Easy_D]

Whether you pay or not is beside the point. Is the situation really different whether you bought the game yourself or your parents/spouse/friend bought it for you. I thought this was about the "principle"?

The bottom line here is that some people are crying foul when there is NO LOGICAL REASON for From to deliberately deceive. They aren't going to drop features just to fuck with you. That's asinine.

I don't see how it is anything but. If From had previously stated that getting it to work was troublesome but that they would try to get the lighting engine working for the retail release, people wouldn't be as upset. But they've said nothing. They kept quiet.

No matter their reasoning, they did it on purpose.

 

[Stet]

Whether you pay or not is beside the point. Is the situation really different whether you bought the game yourself or your parents/spouse/friend bought it for you. I thought this was about the "principle"?

The bottom line here is that some people are crying foul when there is NO LOGICAL REASON for From to deliberately deceive. They aren't going to drop features just to fuck with you. That's asinine.

The logical reason is to release two different versions of the game so they can make money off of every single person who said they would buy it more than once. This is obvious. The sooner we take hero worship out of the equation and start viewing game developers as businesses and not members of an elite club to which we have a unique, if fleeting, glimpse, the better off everyone will be.

From exists to make money. Your money.

 

[Clear]

And you feel exactly the same way about Watch Dogs™? Wait--I just read your avatar tag...seems like I'm wasting my time.

Yeah, the Watch_Dogs thing is another case of immature people overreacting in my opinion.

Pro-tip for you:

In life you will find that 99 times out of 100, advertising is deliberately deceptive. Everything from movie trailers being intentionally edited to be "better than the movie they advertise", pictures of fast-food that bears very little resemblance to what gets served up, the efficacy of beauty and (lol) anti-ageing products... the whole point of the thing is to skirt as close to outright lying in order to show the product in its best light.

This is the reality of the world we live in. Develop some observational / critical-thinking skills, it'll serve you a lot better than getting outraged by everything.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Whether you pay or not is beside the point. Is the situation really different whether you bought the game yourself or your parents/spouse/friend bought it for you. I thought this was about the "principle"?

The bottom line here is that some people are crying foul when there is NO LOGICAL REASON for From to deliberately deceive. They aren't going to drop features just to fuck with you. That's asinine.

How is it besides the point? You were shown the pretty game up until release, when you get the game it's not as pretty. This isn't some tween's birthday, it's like going to a fast food joint, ordering a fancy burger but when you recieve it the cashier goes "Oh we were out of bacon and sauce. It still tastes great though!"

Sure From might not have a reason to have hidden this, but Namco has plenty of explaining to do at the very least. No logical reason? My fucking ass, pre orders are logical enough.

In life you will find that 99 times out of 100, advertising is deliberately deceptive. Everything from movie trailers being intentionally edited to be "better than the movie they advertise", pictures of fast-food that bears very little resemblance to what gets served up, the efficacy of beauty and (lol) anti-ageing products... the whole point of the thing is to skirt as close to outright lying in order to show the product in its best light.

This is the reality of the world we live in. Develop some observational / critical-thinking skills, it'll serve you a lot better than getting outraged by everything.

How about stop bending over because it's the norm?

So people do it all the time, doesn't make it okay, doesn't mean I don't have to make a big deal out of it. Cut the condescending act.

 

[soontroll]

How about stop bending over because it's the norm?

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Whether you pay or not is beside the point. Is the situation really different whether you bought the game yourself or your parents/spouse/friend bought it for you. I thought this was about the "principle"?

The bottom line here is that some people are crying foul when there is NO LOGICAL REASON for From to deliberately deceive. They aren't going to drop features just to fuck with you. That's asinine.

No logical reason? How about hyping the game to get people to buy it? It's not that hard to understand man.

 

[Sephiroth87]

I don't know about you but for me a new Souls game IS a gift from the Gods. The rest of your message is correct in that people don't have to buy it if they feel betrayed, but do not be fooled that this vocal minority that feels betrayed is the group that represents how we all feel about DS2. Personally I'd buy this if they went from 3D to 2D and didn't tell me about it and I'll likely double-dip for PS4 version if that comes this fall.

Sure, you don't HAVE to buy it, and it's easy to say now that the cat is out of the bag and people can choose not to buy, but if you did because where expecting something and got something else it still a betrayal...

 

[Clear]

No matter their reasoning, they did it on purpose.

Of course they did it on purpose, but what is that supposed to prove?

Do you have access to the feedback from likely months of internal testing? Can you tell me exactly what impact on frame-rate and indirectly playability keeping the system in-place would have?

Of course you can't answer that. You are just projecting a negative perspective on their reasoning because t0hat happens to support your position. And in spite of the fact that throwing work away is not something any developer really wants to do, because its essentially just burning money.

How about stop bending over because it's the norm?

I don't "bend over" as you put it, because I'm an adult who goes in with his eyes open. I don't make rash purchasing decisions years ahead of launch/review because I'm aware that I may not get what I expect. 20 plus years in the industry has taught me how fluid and unpredictable development is.

And above all else, I know buying ANY entertainment product is always going to be a gamble. I don't expect to love every book, album, movie, tv-show I buy sight-unseen/unheard. Because I'm an individual with my own personal tastes and preferences, so no matter how stellar the reviews/word-of-mouth, there's always the chance that it may not suit me.

And I accept that is ON ME. I don't seek to blame anyone else for my tastes/choices.

 

[Violater]

There really is a defense force for everything.
SMH

 

[Stone Ocean]

I don't "bend over" as you put it, because I'm an adult who goes in with his eyes open. I don't make rash purchasing decisions years ahead of launch/review because I'm aware that I may not get what I expect. 20 plus years in the industry has taught me how fluid and unpredictable development is.

And above all else, I know buying ANY entertainment product is always going to be a gamble. I don't expect to love every book, album, movie, tv-show I buy sight-unseen/unheard. Because I'm an individual with my own personal tastes and preferences, so no matter how stellar the reviews/word-of-mouth, there's always the chance that it may not suit me.

And I accept that is ON ME. I don't seek to blame anyone else for my tastes/choices.

It's great that you can tie your own shoelaces and poop alone, but you still haven't explained why they shouldn't be called out for it? Because you have done this for over 20 years and care enough to spend hours researching beforehand?

Don't believe they are making a scam? Here's the deal: The Steam page for Dark Souls 2 has a promotional trailer showing the old footage. So unless the PC version actually looks like that - which it won't - then yes, it's a fucking scam.

Consumer laws were made to protect the weaker side, not the other way around. Putting the blame on the consumer for being scammed is bending over.

 

[Easy_D]

Of course they did it on purpose, but what is that supposed to prove?

Do you have access to the feedback from likely months of internal testing? Can you tell me exactly what impact on frame-rate and indirectly playability keeping the system in-place would have?

Of course you can't answer that. You are just projecting a negative perspective on their reasoning because t0hat happens to support your position. And in spite of the fact that throwing work away is not something any developer really wants to do, because its essentially just burning money.

Yes, of course they did a lot of internal testing. And the fact that the game doesn't run all too hot on the PS3 is telling. My point is that From knew this and at the very least, they could have stated that they were having issues.

There's nothing wrong with admitting to that. It's highly unusual, sure, not many developers send out press releases that bring negativity to their games. But transperency could have helped them a lot. People would still be disappointed, some would be angry even, that's the nature of the beast. But some would understand, forgive and move on.

 

[Sephiroth87]

Hey guys, as it turns out titans are not actually in Titanfall...

Wonder if people will find a way to defend that...

 

[BumblebeeCody]

What a depressing thread. Really want this game to look like it's original.

 

[Clear]

It's great that you can tie your own shoelaces and poop alone, but you still haven't explained why they shouldn't be called out for it? Because you have done this for over 20 years and care enough to spend hours researching beforehand?

Consumer laws were made to protect the weaker side, not the other way around. Putting the blame on the consumer for being scammed is bending over.

I'd rather people make purchasing mistakes and learn from them, than being nannied and coddled to the extent that they never learn to take responsibility for their actions.

People should be encouraged to do the tiny bit of due-diligence required before plunking their money down.

Especially on an inessential, luxury item like a game, making a bad decision and wasting $60 should not be the end of the fucking world! If you really needed that money then shame on you for spending on it on such a frivolous item in the first place.

 

[zkylon]

Hey guys, as it turns out titans are not actually in Titanfall...

Wonder if people will find a way to defend that...

lol wat

I'd rather people make purchasing mistakes and learn from them, than being nannied and coddled to the extent that they never learn to take responsibility for their actions.

People should be encouraged to do the tiny bit of due-diligence required before plunking their money down.

Especially on an inessential, luxury item like a game, making a bad decision and wasting $60 should not be the end of the fucking world! If you really needed that money then shame on you for spending on it on such a frivolous item in the first place.

yeaaaaaaaaaa i don't think people should be encouraged to browse a random forum like neogaf to find out that the game doesn't fulfill what it says on the storepage

this is 100% on from and bamco

 

[Bedlam]

Ok so here is what we know so far.

3 Builds

Reveal April 2013 (probably on PC), exclusive IGN Demo
1. Complex geometry (look at border of the door).
2. More complex textures.
3. Awesome lightning.
4. Small attention to detail like the cobwebs in the tunnel.
5. Normal mapping on walls of tunnel

TGS Demo Sep 2013 (running on non-dev PS3)
1. Keeps awesome lightning.
2. Reduced geometry (border of the door much simpler)
3. Some details removed like the cobweb of the reveal.
4. Textures look simpler than reveal
5. Has better shadows than reveal??

Retail February 2014
1. Lightning gutted
2. Simpler geometry kept from TGS
3. Textures untouched from TGS


Has anyone thought that maybe they couldnt get the lightning to work on the Xbox 360 version, so they decided to remove it from both?

So, after having played the game for about 10 hours now, I am pretty sure the TGS demo and the final game are the same as far as lighting goes. The lighting changes drastically when you light a torch. Everything outside the light radius gets darker and the torch light (and certain other light sources such as bonfires) still casts dynamic shadows. The place shown in the gifs basically looks like the TGS demo when you go down there with a lit torch.

 

[Zeth]

I have hope for the PC version. But I feel almost certain we won't hear a single thing about it until the moment it pops up on Steam.

 

[paperspace]

Especially on an inessential, luxury item like a game, making a bad decision and wasting $60 should not be the end of the fucking world! If you really needed that money then shame on you for spending on it on such a frivolous item in the first place.

How on earth is this relevant.

 

[Stone Ocean]

How on earth is this relevant.

Clear
This post contains disingenuous arguments meant to disguise my fanboyism. Reader beware!
(Today, 11:13 AM)

I should have read that before trying to start a discussion.

 

[Easy_D]

How on earth is this relevant.

The fact that it is a luxuary item (games really are), you'd expect to get what was advertised.

 

[xBladeM6x]

I nearly died from lack of oxygen from this. Thank you.

 

[soontroll]

Jim Sterling and Retsupurae talk about the Dark Souls downgrade in the latest Retsutalk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_00sq7KCkno&t=4m30s

 

[gamerforever]

Looking forward to the current gen reveal. Mine has been delivered - will give it a go when back home!

 

[Violater]

Hey guys, as it turns out titans are not actually in Titanfall...

Wonder if people will find a way to defend that...

Of course there are no Titans in titan fall they are Mechs, would you want half a life in Half Life?
I dunno give me a sec to come up with something better while I have my mid morning snack.

 

[killertofu]

holy shit this is amazing

 

[zephervack]

In case someone missed this from the twitter campaign thread

Ok, for people saying that the lightning is gone because they had to balance the torch.

Forget about the torch and explain this:

Reveal
1. Amazing Lightning
2. Atmospheric shadows/Lightning reflected on the ground/walls/characters etc
3. Torches on walls and other details throughout

Retail
1. All stuff on the reveal completely gone or reduced (worse blur, smoke effects)
2. Weird green/grey hue everywhere

Im missing tons of stuff in the comparisons too, they are completely different

Also HTML 5 versions

REVEAL = http://gfycat.com/CarefreeNewHornet
RETAIL = http://gfycat.com/FatalWhirlwindKissingbug

 

[LogicStep]

The difference is probably because the reveal was the PC version? PC version should look much better.

 

[Kamina]

Especially on an inessential, luxury item like a game, making a bad decision and wasting $60 should not be the end of the fucking world! If you really needed that money then shame on you for spending on it on such a frivolous item in the first place.

So when I go to the jewler and buy a pair of marriage rings for me and my GF at one point, and they cost lets say 1000€, are advertised as pure gold, but it turns out they are just gold coated and the inside is just bronce, is that ok too in your oppinion? 1000€ are not the end of the world either, but especially since this is a luxury item i want to get what i was told i would get and not somethig else, potentially worse.

 

[Riddler]

What a depressing thread. Really want this game to look like it's original.

Don't be depressed for the PC version . After about 20 hours,lvl 40ish and been to the Hub and seen 3 other areas everything from the demo is there in retail(PS3).

Everything is just moved around and design changes also consoles aggressive LOD hides some things unless your in a less demanding area,but all the special effects and detailed shiny armor enemies/player and walls with dynamic lighting.

Can't wait to see this game in a higher resolution with less or no LOD.

Anyways the gameplay is what you should really be excited for since STATS play a bigger role in how fast or slow your character attacks/maneuvers and equipment makes a bigger difference.

Please be Excited!

 

[Alcoholikaust]

The difference is probably because the reveal was the PC version? PC version should look much better.

I wish but there is no way they would use completely different assists for consoles compared to PC. the difference would be astronomical and would be a slap in the face to ps3 and 360 players (basically the majority of the players of the last souls games).

if the PC version and potential Xb1/PS4 builds are on the level of the reveal Trailers I will eat crow with a glorious smile upon my face.

 

[Riddler]

So, after having played the game for about 10 hours now, I am pretty sure the TGS demo and the final game are the same as far as lighting goes. The lighting changes drastically when you light a torch. Everything outside the light radius gets darker and the torch light (and certain other light sources such as bonfires) still casts dynamic shadows. The place shown in the gifs basically looks like the TGS demo when you go down there with a lit torch.

This.

PC guys do not worry. It will be glorious!

 

[Sephzilla]

So when I go to the jewler and buy a pair of marriage rings for me and my GF at one point, and they cost lets say 1000€, are advertised as pure gold, but it turns out they are just gold coated and the inside is just bronce, is that ok too in your oppinion? 1000€ are not the end of the world either, but especially since this is a luxury item i want to get what i was told i would get and not somethig else, potentially worse.

I think there's a vast difference between a $60 game and a $1k ring

 

[Violater]

So, after having played the game for about 10 hours now, I am pretty sure the TGS demo and the final game are the same as far as lighting goes. The lighting changes drastically when you light a torch. Everything outside the light radius gets darker and the torch light (and certain other light sources such as bonfires) still casts dynamic shadows. The place shown in the gifs basically looks like the TGS demo when you go down there with a lit torch.

I want to believe, do you have any photos to show us?

 

[Clear]

Clear
This post contains disingenuous arguments meant to disguise my fanboyism. Reader beware!
(Today, 11:13 AM)

I should have read that before trying to start a discussion.

That says a lot about your powers of observation... And besides that tag has virtually zero relevance to the topic at hand.

So when I go to the jewler and buy a pair of marriage rings for me and my GF at one point...

Seriously? Talk about apples and oranges! There is no market value on game mechanics in the way there is a market value to precious metals.

 

[Easy_D]

I really do hope that the PC version employs real time lighting. It would be sweet if every single light source acts the same way the torch does, along with adjusted gamma levels and ambiant lighting. I mean, they might as well just be disabled with some console specific switch.

I also hope the PC version has the capability to display graphics as the PS360 version mainly for those with weaker rigs. Best of two worlds, so to speak. The fact that PC is the lead dev should give us some hope and the radio silence on the PC version might just be because Bamco is afraid to lose PS360 sales.

 

[Gartooth]

I'll double dip on PC if the dynamic lighting comes back. This remains my biggest disappointment with the game given how much tension the torch mechanic lent to encounters in my time with the PS3 beta.

 

[Violater]

I'll double dip on PC if the dynamic lighting comes back. This remains my biggest disappointment with the game given how much tension the torch mechanic lent to encounters in my time with the PS3 beta.

Hopefully you do so at a discounted price, I never understood buying a game twice full price no matter how much disposable income one has.

 

[Kamina]

I'll double dip on PC if the dynamic lighting comes back. This remains my biggest disappointment with the game given how much tension the torch mechanic lent to encounters in my time with the PS3 beta.

Same here, but only for less than half the price. Might have to check around for cheap arse offers when the time comes...

I think there's a vast difference between a $60 game and a $1k ring

Of course there is a differwnce, but we are not arguing price, we are arguing about what we were told we would get and what we ended up getting.
Both are neither vital to our existance, nor would be the end of the world when or if they turn out less than expected, but the advertisment was wrong when compared to the final product, which leads us back to:
#YOULIED

 

[CadetMahoney]

Pro-tip for you:

In life you will find that 99 times out of 100, advertising is deliberately deceptive.

This is the reality of the world we live in.

Wow, I'm sick of all these target render and lies in general all over the place. Such as E3 "it's real" etc. Look at Deep Down. ppl counting pixels and saying it's real. Then this complete downgrade and it's not just lighting. Furniture and geometry is missing, aswell as scenery downgrades, if those are also missing on PC then. . .

 

[JRW]

Doing that will crush black detail. I was actually trying something similar with my Panasonic.

The washed out look is because the game is using an incorrect gamma profile.

In the original dark souls brightness option setting it to 1 would make both the dragon invisible and the flame hard to see. Setting it to 10 made both very visible. In the middle you see the flame but no dragon like intended.

In dark souls 2 it doesn't matter where you set the slider both are always very visible. It doesn't affect the gamma level like the first game. Instead it simply pushes the overall brightness higher or lower.

It should be a simple fix but it requires a patch. It's something you cant fix with tv settings. Someone needs to bring it to from softwares attention ASAP because the game would look a lot nicer with proper gamma levels.

Agreed because messing with the reference setting will affect other games too, hopefully they fix it properly but for now the Intermediate setting did help with the overall look without crushing details, (Expanded on the other hand would probably be overkill & crush details) The dragon is still just barely visible with brightness slider at default and the black level doesn't have the elevated (greyish) look anymore.

 

[IISANDERII]

Yeah, the Watch_Dogs thing is another case of immature people overreacting in my opinion.

Pro-tip for you:

In life you will find that 99 times out of 100, advertising is deliberately deceptive. Everything from movie trailers being intentionally edited to be "better than the movie they advertise", pictures of fast-food that bears very little resemblance to what gets served up, the efficacy of beauty and (lol) anti-ageing products... the whole point of the thing is to skirt as close to outright lying in order to show the product in its best light.

This is the reality of the world we live in. Develop some observational / critical-thinking skills, it'll serve you a lot better than getting outraged by everything.

This wasn't advertising. These were demonstrations.

A proper equivalent to your example would be if screeners saw the actual movie starring George Clooney but then when it was released in theatres Clooney had been replaced by Greg Kinnear.

 

[doomquake]

Hold on to your butts on #April25th thats all im gonna say

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Hold on to your butts on #April25th thats all im gonna say

Is this bad or good?

How do you know?