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Destiny's raids will not support online matchmaking with random players.

viveks86

Member
This is great news.

The best Destiny news to surface in weeks.

If you're complaining about this, you are wrong. Please stop.

Personally, I don't care if the option existed or didn't. If it requires me to find more friends who are online when I play, I'll find friends. To summarize my stance on this topic with a simple analogy, I don't want to complain that I can't play a 2 player game because I'm alone. That should be my problem, not the developers'.

But I'm curious to understand why some people overtly welcome this. Care to explain?
 

Homeboyd

Member
Not that this is anything to go by, but 2 of the difficulties on destinydb.com for the raid (beta datamine) show player counts of 1-6 while the third is 6 only. Wouldn't imagine you could get very far alone, but wonder why it showed up that way...
 

molnizzle

Member
When I've seen this in other instances. The fanbases response was to complain about the mode and cry for nerfs. Not the more reasoned approach that you think.

Yep.

I get the feeling that many of the complainers in this thread haven't played many endgame MMO's.

You will understand soon enough.

But I'm curious to understand why some people overtly welcome this. Care to explain?

It demonstrates a commitment to keeping the raids difficult and rewarding. It shows that Bungie isn't concerned about a large portion of the player base not being able to experience this content. It sends the message that these raids will require a large amount of organization and planning. "Hardcore" content, if you will.
 

Crosseyes

Banned
I think consumers should have the choice, I don't see the problem in it. If it's very difficult without organization, great, players can be informed of that like adults. I think most would understand something like this takes a lot of teamwork and can coordinate as necessary. If they can't complete then they know they need a dedicated team. Seems fairly simple to me. The notion that 'players can't handle frustration' comes as a somewhat weak excuse. They see the problem and find solutions to it, i.e. "crap, I need to have a good team to beat this".
I still think you're underestimating it. It'll remain to be seen how it'll really hold up but it's not intended to be very difficult without organization, it's supposed to be impossible without it.

There's frustration of queuing with randoms (if that's someones preferred, perhaps only option) and not even defeating the first encounter for half an hour, then someone quits which snowballs into a waste of time. Then there's doing that and only experiencing that from the raid for days, weeks, who knows?

The noise would get louder. The frustration would get worse, and when a lot of people are frustrated with your game for a long time... that starts to be the developer's problem. Whether its ultimately the player's responsibility or not.
 

Two Words

Member
This is great news.

The best Destiny news to surface in weeks.

If you're complaining about this, you are wrong. Please stop.



Totally wrong. Everyone would just bitch about how ridiculously difficult the raids were. It would only cause frustration.

Gating them in this manner means that casuals will likely never even see them. That is a good thing for people who like MMO-style raiding.

Casual players can continue running around in explore mode or crucible.
Bitching about them being hard is better than bitching about not being able to find anybody to play with.
 

SirCrush

Member
Someone on the Destiny Boards suggested some sort of bulletin board or other system so that those who have trouble finding fireteam members/raid parties can use the game to look for them. A /shout command or emote that announced it to the tower or explore areas wouldn't hurt either. Something.

At first I was like, "Quit yer whinin'!" but the more I think about it, the more I think that SOME sort of solution is pertinent to this no matchmaking issue.

No matter what I will accept what Bungie dictates here. It's their vision. I'll consume what they give me and do what I gotta do to raid. I suppose I'm getting tolerant in my old age :)
 

molnizzle

Member
Bitching about them being hard is better than bitching about not being able to find anybody to play with.

The entire point of content like this is to be difficult and exclusive. Being able to clear it easily only cheapens it.

Destiny still has plenty to offer for casual players, but hardcore raid content like this is hard to find nowadays — even in MMO's.

I'm super excited to see if Bungie delivers on this aspect of Destiny.
 
All these people in this thread going "good" and "this is great news" baffle me. Not having the option for matchmaking raiding is good now? Who cares if it would be hard to beat with randoms, the option should be there. How backwards.
 

viveks86

Member
It demonstrates a commitment to keeping the raids difficult and rewarding. It shows that Bungie isn't concerned about a large portion of the player base not being able to experience this content. It sends the message that these raids will require a large amount of organization and planning. "Hardcore" content, if you will.

Ahhh ok
 

Sevyne

Member
This is great news.

The best Destiny news to surface in weeks.

If you're complaining about this, you are wrong. Please stop.



Totally wrong. Everyone would just bitch about how ridiculously difficult the raids were. It would only cause frustration.

Gating them in this manner means that casuals will likely never even see them. That is a good thing for people who like MMO-style raiding.

Casual players can continue running around in explore mode or crucible.

Not only is the way this is worded completely disgusting, but it also shows your lack of understanding the situation.

The "casuals" aren't being gated out. They can still put together randoms manually. Bungie just decided to make it a chore for them to do so by not adding in matchmaking. They'll still happen, so your point about them complaining doesn't really hold up. If they were going to complain with matchmaking in, then they'll still complain without it. However now they'll complain about that AND not having matchmaking, so there really is no reason to not have it. Makes me wonder if YOU have actually played many MMOs before. Everything gets circumvented in some way, and people will just come up with some silly systems just for this situation.
 

Two Words

Member
Yep.

I get the feeling that many of the complainers in this thread haven't played many endgame MMO's.

You will understand soon enough.



It demonstrates a commitment to keeping the raids difficult and rewarding. It shows that Bungie isn't concerned about a large portion of the player base not being able to experience this content. It sends the message that these raids will require a large amount of organization and planning. "Hardcore" content, if you will.

Wouldn't the best commitment be to keep the raid difficulty where they intend it to be and let matchmakers deal with the difficulty?
 
All these people in this thread going "good" and "this is great news" baffle me. Not having the option for matchmaking raiding is good now? Who cares if it would be hard to beat with randoms, the option should be there. How backwards.

How can you side with the peasant casual? Only the 1% master race should be able to do raids, it is known.



/s
 

Acerac

Banned
The entire point of content like this is to be difficult and exclusive. Being able to clear it easily only cheapens it.

Destiny still has plenty to offer for casual players, but hardcore raid content like this is hard to find nowadays — even in MMO's.

I'm super excited to see if Bungie delivers on this aspect of Destiny.
Why not just make it difficult? Have a big flashing warning be on the screen while team members are being found that this mode will probably kick your ass unless you're amazing, that way people won't be surprised.
How can you side with the peasant casual? Only the 1% master race should be able to attempt raids, it is known.
Fixed
 

molnizzle

Member
All these people in this thread going "good" and "this is great news" baffle me. Not having the option for matchmaking raiding is good now? Who cares if it would be hard to beat with randoms, the option should be there. How backwards.

It's the same as bitching about having the "option" to buy new games on PS3/360 instead of PS4/XBO.

Destiny being on PS3 and 360 undoubtedly held the game back. You can see the last-gen shackles everywhere you look.

Raid matchmaking would similarly hold back the encounter design. It's inevitable.
 

Two Words

Member
The entire point of content like this is to be difficult and exclusive. Being able to clear it easily only cheapens it.

Destiny still has plenty to offer for casual players, but hardcore raid content like this is hard to find nowadays — even in MMO's.

I'm super excited to see if Bungie delivers on this aspect of Destiny.

What does that have anything to do with actually being able to do it? Let's say I've got a night free. I'm willing to stay up late to complete the raid or until I just can't proceed. None of my friends want to play. I don't happen to be in a large clan or my clan has died down or nobody in that clan wants to play. I'm just out of luck? I'm stuck to bothering random people in the tower? Why should whether or not I can amass enough people that I know personally to join a raid be a limiting factor?
 

Two Words

Member
It's the same as bitching about having the "option" to buy new games on PS3/360 instead of PS4/XBO.

Destiny being on PS3 and 360 undoubtedly held the game back. You can see the last-gen shackles everywhere you look.

Raid matchmaking would similarly hold back the encounter design. It's inevitable.

That is not true. You are making a false slippery slope argument. There is nothing that would have prevented Bungie from making the raids EXACTLY as difficult and as coordinated as they want to make it while also allowing matchmaking. Enabling matchmaking on raids does NOT mean they have to change the design of the raids.
 

HowZatOZ

Banned
Ehhhhh. I don't like this. I have two IRL friends who might pick this up and I really don't want to have to coordinate with fellow Aussies on Gaf and elsewhere to get a game going. I just don't care that much. I've never been one to plug in a headset and tee up games with mates and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

It's disappointing, because it sounds like this is where the real meat of the game is. I guess I'm on track to being a Destiny vegan.

Not to mention the fact that at the moment we don't have local servers so things aren't exactly prime condition for raiding. Having no ability to matchmake with randoms and just jump into the content is going to push away those casual gamers who may have been eager to see Bungie's hand-made content but now have no choice because the options are limited.
 

Mutagenic

Permanent Junior Member
It's the same as bitching about having the "option" to buy new games on PS3/360 instead of PS4/XBO.

Destiny being on PS3 and 360 undoubtedly held the game back. You can see the last-gen shackles everywhere you look.

Raid matchmaking would similarly hold back the encounter design. It's inevitable.
Man, what a crazy argument to make regarding raids.
 

molnizzle

Member
None of my friends want to play. I don't happen to be in a large clan or my clan has died down or nobody in that clan wants to play. I'm just out of luck?

Yes, you're out of luck. This content isn't for you.

If you could even clear the content with randoms who have never played together, that would be too easy. I want to see that type of raid content that basically requires you to be in a well-organized clan with experienced leadership. Vanilla WoW raids, basically.

I'm not saying that Destiny will have that (no one knows, obviously), but decisions like this give me hope.

That is not true. You are making a false slippery slope argument. There is nothing that would have prevented Bungie from making the raids EXACTLY as difficult and as coordinated as they want to make it while also allowing matchmaking. Enabling matchmaking on raids does NOT mean they have to change the design of the raids.

That's nice in theory. Just like it's nice to think that devs will optimize the PS4/XBO ports of cross-gen games to really push the hardware.

And yet...
 
Perhaps one of the more prevalent problems matchmade raids would facilitate is that after a while, some matches aren't going to even get to the point of failure. IME with raids or similar modes, people will stat check you or size you up as soon as the game is loaded up. If you don't have the right gear equipped, make a wrong move, or if the classes don't provide the necessary stats (i.e. everyone is a Gunslinger) it'll end before it even started. With friends or a similar method of inviting people before the game starts, you'll either know or be able to sort this out beforehand.

Some of this could be rectified by certain features, like a quick Vault at checkpoints, a system that fills in "missing" classes, and even moreso by proximity chat (which isn't suddenly going to make people who don't want to play with mics put in their mics by the way, but I digress). Nevertheless, Raids seem to be about more than just pumping the enemy with bullets like a Strike. It wont be as bad as the ones with very specific classes, but I can say it's a certainty, and one that Bungie seems to want to avoid among other things.

I like the possibility of opening it up to matchmaking as a new Raid becomes available, but don't encourage that shit from the onset. It was a big problem I had with Extinction in CoD Ghosts. Some guy would ignore all the skill challenges and people would immediately quit, which meant I had to matchmake back into another game. That's a greater waste of time to me than finding dedicated players who will communicate and strategize, whether we're more likely to win or not.
 

Crosseyes

Banned
That is not true. You are making a false slippery slope argument. There is nothing that would have prevented Bungie from making the raids EXACTLY as difficult and as coordinated as they want to make it while also allowing matchmaking. Enabling matchmaking on raids does NOT mean they have to change the design of the raids.
History has shown with content like this that it would become their problem. Especially with an FPS crowd who isn't as accustomed to the idea of endgame hard content that many players won't be able to clear.

It does put up a barrier but I have to agree with Luke how it's a necessary one to really get the message of the meaning of the raid. To make people take it seriously. A matchmaking que people would still expect to have a legitimate shot at despite how many big flashing warnings they gave if allowed to que into it like any other thing in the whole game. This WOULD become Bungie's problem as more and more people got frustrated.

A more legitimate criticism I could get behind is a lack of putting together these kind of serious groups solely through in game means or at least the only way to do so would be tedious.

However all we have to go by so far is the beta which was nowhere near the endgame point. Perhaps Bungie does have a way in game to help people form serious parties for raiding to alleviate people's issues but we'll have to wait and see.
 

Two Words

Member
Yes, you're out of luck. This content isn't for you.

If you could even clear the content with randoms who have never played together, that would be too easy. I want to see that type of raid content that basically requires you to be in a well-organized clan with experienced leadership. Vanilla WoW raids, basically.

I'm not saying that Destiny will have that (no one knows, obviously), but decisions like this give me hope.

So let me fail to complete it. Maybe I'll find some decent people or maybe I won't. It's absurd to act as if random people are inept morons that can't work together. Stop acting like people in a fireteam are somehow so much more coordinated and special and people who join in a matchmade session are incapable of group cooperation or understanding what is necessary within the raid.


Yes, you're out of luck. This content isn't for you.

If you could even clear the content with randoms who have never played together, that would be too easy. I want to see that type of raid content that basically requires you to be in a well-organized clan with experienced leadership. Vanilla WoW raids, basically.

I'm not saying that Destiny will have that (no one knows, obviously), but decisions like this give me hope.



That's nice in theory. Just like it's nice to think that devs will optimize the PS4/XBO ports of cross-gen games to really push the hardware.

And yet...

And yet you have no problem assuming that the lack of matchmaking means the raids will DEFINITELY be hard. It could easily be just as possible that there is no matchmaking and they also aren't as hard as we are being led to believe. So why assume that?
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
If you play end game content in any MMO type, people create statics

This is the same setup for those players that will be knee deep in the raid aspect
Find 5 people you can rely on, set up a time to do it, and go do it

The more pressing issue I have that I hope is the raid could be completed multiple times and isn't locked out for only a 1 win per week scenario
Try as many times as you like but win you are locked out till reset....

Also a hypothesis, maybe down the line when newer raids come in, the older one will get nerfed or given access to matchmaking, cause the newer one will take it's place
 
If you play end game content in any MMO type, people create statics

This is the same setup for those players that will be knee deep in the raid aspect
Find 5 people you can rely on, set up a time to do it, and go do it

The more pressing issue I have that I hope is the raid could be completed multiple times and isn't locked out for only a 1 win per week scenario
Try as many times as you like but win you are locked out till reset....

Nah, 50 tries per week. If you finish within tiers of tries, you get better loot.

Finish in your first try? Awesome loot.
Finish in your first five tries? Very good loot.
Finish in your first ten tries? Good loot.
Etc, etc, etc.

Do not finish in 50 tries? Too bad, try next week.

Also, 1 win per week is a must too. Can't let people smash through the content, nope.
 
The idea that hardcore dedicated cooperative gameplay can't be had with randoms is simply false.

I play arma, rbs3, insurgency, payday 2 (DW), killing floor (hoe), warframe (T4 void) with nothing but randoms all the time.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
This is great news.

The best Destiny news to surface in weeks.

If you're complaining about this, you are wrong. Please stop.



Totally wrong. Everyone would just bitch about how ridiculously difficult the raids were. It would only cause frustration.

Gating them in this manner means that casuals will likely never even see them. That is a good thing for people who like MMO-style raiding.

Casual players can continue running around in explore mode or crucible.
While I would word that differently 100% correct. If you want quality you need to put in certain gates, this gate is easy to work around with if you have a sufficient network of friends, if you can't find the people or don't have the time, perhaps this content is not for you.
 
Wouldn't the best commitment be to keep the raid difficulty where they intend it to be and let matchmakers deal with the difficulty?
But they won't. Trust me. Blizzard tried this with cataclysm heroics and it ended in ruin. They tried it with the first flex raids and the flex raiders based blizzard until they made it raiding in super no fail mode(and people still fail).

This praise for no randoms isn't born from some sense of elitism. I sympathize with you. I went several wow expansions with no raiding due to not finding a guild. But I've also seen the result of attempting to mix high coordination content and random people. It ends up being a horrible experience for all.
 

Jarmel

Banned
History has shown with content like this that it would become their problem. Especially with an FPS crowd who isn't as accustomed to the idea of endgame hard content that many players won't be able to clear.

It does put up a barrier but I have to agree with Luke how it's a necessary one to really get the message of the meaning of the raid. To make people take it seriously. A matchmaking que people would still expect to have a legitimate shot at despite how many big flashing warnings they gave if allowed to que into it like any other thing in the whole game. This WOULD become Bungie's problem as more and more people got frustrated.

There are multiple raids in multiple MMOs that are hard as fucking stink and people try it with randoms all the time to varying success. That isn't giving players enough credit.
 

Sai-kun

Banned
Gating them in this manner means that casuals will likely never even see them. That is a good thing for people who like MMO-style raiding.

Casual players can continue running around in explore mode or crucible.

lmao jesus christ what a fucking "hardcore gamer" post. seriously? 'casuals'?

regardless, it doesn't seem like bungie will change their stance, so i'll bow out of here and just complain at other opportunities. month 1, baby!
 

Navy Bean

Member
For this game I'm gonna be 95% PvE so things like crazy hard endgame are important. As long as it's easy to group up at any hour then this is fine, I guess.

Of course, Destiny launches a week before my first kid is due so I doubt I'll have 3 spare hours to play...lol
 

Sevyne

Member
But they won't. Trust me. Blizzard tried this with cataclysm heroics and it ended in ruin. They tried it with the first flex raids and the flex raiders based blizzard until they made it raiding in super no fail mode(and people still fail).

This praise for no randoms isn't born from some sense of elitism. I sympathize with you. I went several wow expansions with no raiding due to not finding a guild. But I've also seen the result of attempting to mix high coordination content and random people. It ends up being a horrible experience for all.

I think most people understand this, but I repeat; This doesn't actually remove randoms from raiding. All it's doing is making it a chore to form a random group. If anything it's just adding a complaint on top of the complaints random groups would make. People keep talking like not having matchmaking is suddenly a giant locked gate to random grouping. It's not. All it is is an annoyance to those who choose to or can only do randoms. Why not just have the feature if they're going to do it anyway?
 

Mindlog

Member
While I would word that differently 100% correct. If you want quality you need to put in certain gates, this gate is easy to work around with if you have a sufficient network of friends, if you can't find the people or don't have the time, perhaps this content is not for you.
Why is this gate sufficient? Shouldn't the requirements be more stringent if it's really that hard?
 

Crosseyes

Banned
There are multiple raids in multiple MMOs that are hard as fucking stink and people try it with randoms all the time to varying success. That isn't giving players enough credit.
I do agree that I hope there is some means to put together groups of randoms in game.

To stick with MMO examples I still play FFXIV from time to time and something like the party finder would be great, but I never have any issue with them sealing off the latest and hardest content from the duty finder like the binding coils. Perhaps there'll be a place in the tower in the full version or a new area entirely that'll be a 'raid group' gathering area. Matchmaking in a que just sets an expectation that the raid wouldn't be fulfilling.
 

BokehKing

Banned
I recognize that my situation doesn't represent the situation of most people that will play Destiny. That is my point.
So you're taking up for the stance for the little man?
We don't even know of if the little man has the patience to even gear up for the end level strikes and raids, or drops the game as soon as COD comes out. .

Question? . Have you ever ran a Raid, or seen how long it takes to get one off the ground? . There is a lot of talking, a lot of planning. Making sure everyone has a mic and has a general idea of what to do, ect ect
Prep time, blah blah blah

Now let's say you queue up, 4 people go running in like Rambo, one guy who has been playing all day and wants to see the first boss just once, and then there is you, new guy. . You guys wipe something horribly, one guy leaves, the snowball effect happens, another guy leaves, one of the guys goes afk for 30 minutes. . Its meant for hardcore serious about the game stuff, not casual like a strike. (for all we know the strikes will be tougher)

I personally hope Bungie sticks to their guns with this one.
 

Acerac

Banned
But they won't. Trust me. Blizzard tried this with cataclysm heroics and it ended in ruin. They tried it with the first flex raids and the flex raiders based blizzard until they made it raiding in super no fail mode(and people still fail).

This praise for no randoms isn't born from some sense of elitism. I sympathize with you. I went several wow expansions with no raiding due to not finding a guild. But I've also seen the result of attempting to mix high coordination content and random people. It ends up being a horrible experience for all.
I quit right after those heroics were nerfed after raiding since BC.

Just because some people are terrified by challenge doesn't mean we all are. I had quite a few memorable fights in those hellish 5 mans, and I picked up a couple new tricks in them despite playing for years. The fact that many groups wiped and gave up made the runs we completed that much more gratifying. I pugged as healer/tank, for reference.
 

molnizzle

Member
So let me fail to complete it. Maybe I'll find some decent people or maybe I won't. It's absurd to act as if random people are inept morons that can't work together. Stop acting like people in a fireteam are somehow so much more coordinated and special and people who join in a matchmade session are incapable of group cooperation or understanding what is necessary within the raid.

I'm going to just assume that you've never played an MMO with difficult endgame raids, because no, it doesn't matter how well a group of people "work together." There are always very specific jobs and very specific roles that people have to play. If you're going in for the first time, you'll need to have researched the encounters beforehand unless your group is so over-geared that they can carry you. That's assuming that you don't need to perform a critical role.

That goes for each boss in the raid, and they're all different. So no, randoms can't really hang. Not without some serious organization from one or two players and catching a lucky break by getting other randoms who are both competent players and willing/able to listen to directions.

You're right though, we don't know if Destiny's raids will actually be like that. That's true. I'm just saying that this news gives me hope that they will be.
 

Jarmel

Banned
I'm going to just assume that you've never played an MMO with difficult endgame raids, because no, it doesn't matter how well a group of people "work together." There are always very specific jobs and very specific roles that people have to play. If you're going in for the first time, you'll need to have researched the encounters beforehand unless your group is so over-geared that they can carry you. That's assuming that you don't need to perform a critical role.

That goes for each boss in the raid, and they're all different. So no, randoms can't really hang. Not without some serious organization from one or two players and catching a lucky break by getting other randoms who are both competent players and willing/able to listen to directions.

You're right though, we don't know if Destiny's raids will actually be like that. That's true. I'm just saying that this news gives me hope that they will be.

I've done some hard fucking endgame raids and yes it does matter how well the group works together. Yes you do need someone usually who has completed the raid but that doesn't in any way prevent that person from explaining how to complete the raid to the other members in the group. Randoms are just as capable as any other person at completing a raid. They're not functionally deficient in some magical way compared to clan members or your friends.

Voice chat does wonders.
 

Sai-kun

Banned
I don't think Destiny's bosses will be anywhere near as complex as bosses in WoW can be.

edit: u know what happens when u assume
 
Not to be overly simplistic here but does it essentially come down to, pay $60 for the full game but you don't get to play it all unless you have a solid group of 5 other people? Honestly, putting in a matchmaking system does not mean raids have to be easy mode. If Bungie can weather the criticism from not facilitating a portion of their paying customers to even access the content then I'm sure they could handle complaining about relative difficulty of said content.
 

Stoze

Member
Yes, you're out of luck. This content isn't for you.

If you could even clear the content with randoms who have never played together, that would be too easy. I want to see that type of raid content that basically requires you to be in a well-organized clan with experienced leadership. Vanilla WoW raids, basically.

I'm not saying that Destiny will have that (no one knows, obviously), but decisions like this give me hope.

Here's the thing though; WoW and other MMOs have in-game clan/guild implementation as well as instant text chat to anyone on the server, either through public channels, guild channels, whispering, etc. This game has no in-game clan roster, no text or voice chat with anyone unless they are already in your fireteam.
 

Blu10

Member
I'm not very happy about this development. I'll play a crapton, and honestly have better gear than my rl friends. Provided it doesn't have a lockout, I'd expect to play through multiple times with 2-4 randoms most of the time, and gafers only a few times. Most of my friends have kids, or live in a 5+ hr time zone difference, so we'll be searching for 1-4 randoms to fill the slots. I hope there is not any kind of lock out
 

Remark

Banned
I don't see what the big problem is, just find 5 other people to play with. It's not as hard as you think if your social enough, I found like 12 guys on the tower that helped me through strikes and now their on my friendlist.

Raids as Bungie has said are meant for planning and working as a team and you usually don't get that through matchmaking seeing as most randoms are either in a party with their friends or don't have a mic whatsoever so it makes a already difficult challenge harder. I agree with Bungie's decision here.

One thing I do hope they do though is that they have a in-game text chat for the tower and your clan so it will be easier to get people together to do things like a raid/strike/etc.
 

molnizzle

Member
Here's the thing though; WoW and other MMOs have in-game clan/guild implementation as well as instant text chat to anyone on the server, either through public channels, guild channels, whispering, etc. This game has no in-game clan roster, no text or voice chat with anyone unless they are already in your fireteam.

This is a valid complaint.

I really hope that there's more to the clan roster stuff than what we saw in beta.

EDIT: Another valid complaint, and one that I imagine factored in to Bungie's decision here: Strike teams formed through matchmaking don't support voice chat. Only manual fire teams that you create yourself allow voice chat. Good raid content will always require voice chat, so unless Bungie changes the way their matchmaking works in the first place, this is the way it needs to be.

I'm not sure how I feel about not having voice chat in matchmaking though. On one hand, it's nice to avoid the bad experiences you typically encounter in online games — particularly shooters. On the other hand, sometimes you really need to tell your teammate something and Destiny doesn't give you any real way to do that.
 

Zomba13

Member
All these people in this thread going "good" and "this is great news" baffle me. Not having the option for matchmaking raiding is good now? Who cares if it would be hard to beat with randoms, the option should be there. How backwards.

Pretty much this. At the very least it's nice to have the option of getting a pick up group or some matchmade randoms and giving it a go if not to beat to at least attempt the early bits so when you do finally go i a group you aren't the one that sucks and drags everyone down due to you not knowing what to do and being shit.

Also, I don't get the complaint that GAF players are inherently better than random players you get match made with. What if you do a shout out in the GAF thread and you get someone who only plays a little every week and is using their time this week to run the raid and don't have the uber leet gear and have to stop midway through because the baby is crying? Unless I forgot something but GAFfers are just normal people too right with lives and commitments? Unless there will be a vetting process in the thread so that you can only raid with the hardcore clan members and posters?

I'm going to just assume that you've never played an MMO with difficult endgame raids, because no, it doesn't matter how well a group of people "work together." There are always very specific jobs and very specific roles that people have to play. If you're going in for the first time, you'll need to have researched the encounters beforehand unless your group is so over-geared that they can carry you. That's assuming that you don't need to perform a critical role.

That goes for each boss in the raid, and they're all different. So no, randoms can't really hang. Not without some serious organization from one or two players and catching a lucky break by getting other randoms who are both competent players and willing/able to listen to directions.

You're right though, we don't know if Destiny's raids will actually be like that. That's true. I'm just saying that this news gives me hope that they will be.

So what about the first timers who do it during launch week (day?)? And if there are job/class reqs then usually the party/group system sorts that out by only letting you go in or by matching you up with the class types needed (usually 1 tank/2 dps/1 healer for 4 man content). And then what about the new people? You ask for a group in the GAF thread saying you're new, a few other people also say they are new and want to try because they've been shunned then you get a guy who has done it before but is a dick because he won't carry these noobs and they need to learn the raid first.
 
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