Support NeoGAF

[RuhRo]

I pre-ordered it, because I feel very committed to supporting this series and this kind of intensely detailed single-player game. And I'm loving it so far - a significant improvement on Human Revolution in terms of how deep and sandboxy the game world is. Devotees of the original should really flock to this, and it's a shame if they aren't.

That said, they absolutely failed to create an atmosphere of excitement around this game. There was never a new and urgent hook presented. The trailers looked like they could be selling Human Revolution. The key art looked like it could be selling Human Revolution. The big theme of the game - society grappling with the treatment of augmented people - felt ripped from Human Revolution. And the gameplay was presented as being strictly iterative - and incrementally so at that.

The key design difference from its predecessor - the greater focus on nonlinear side quests and an immersive hub world - was never really put front and center.

If it does okay, it will be in spite of the way they publicly presented the game.

They need to make the next one more of an "event" and foreground what's new and not iterative.

 

[BlindJesus]

I don't understand how MD is so divisive here on NeoGAF, it has some of the best level design and world building I've ever seen in a game with great music and and okay story. The hub world in itself is worth the full price. It's a huge playground with a myriad of secrets and tidbits of story just scattered everywhere. We constantly bitch about games like FO4 not having any substance, immersion or consequences, but when a similar-ish FPS/RPG hybrid comes out that achieves those things, everyone ignores it and just finds a small issue to validate not buying it.

 

[Mooreberg]

I don't understand how MD is so divisive here on NeoGAF, it has some of the best level design and world building I've ever seen in a game with great music and and okay story. The hub world in itself is worth the full price. It's a huge playground with a myriad of secrets and tidbits of story just scattered everywhere. We constantly bitch about games like FO4 not having any substance, immersion or consequences, but when a similar-ish FPS/RPG hybrid comes out that achieves those things, everyone ignores it and just finds a small issue to validate not buying it.

Agreed completely, but I think delaying the game into the shadow of the No Man's Sky hype train did a huge amount of damage. SE more or less conducted itself as if this game was still making it out in February, and then stopped talking about it for close to six months. Late August is usually very hospital to games like this. It worked for BioShock and Human Revolution. Not sure the time spent on Thief was worth it in the long run either (or was that a separate team?). A game like this in 2014 would have won GOTY awards and sold quite a bit better.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Depressing to see No Man's Sky do so well and this falter. I really enjoyed it.

Shows how important marketing is I guess.

 

[Aces&Eights]

I think the tides are finally turning as people don't just throw money at a preorder like they use to. This all started with that botched "augment your preorder" and it's been down hill from there.

With places like gaf and youtube, you can see how a game really runs and plays all in an hour and if you like it you can just buy it from your phone and have it downloaded by the time you get home from work. Still getting it day one but much more informed about the actually mechanics, framerate, etc.

 

[Hellsing321]

I loved HR and I'm looking forward to playing Mankind Divided but I'm currently still obsessed with Overwatch and can't justify buying a game that I don't know when I'm going to sit down and play it.

 

[whatevermort]

I must admit, it doesn't feel very expensive to me. It's not a graphical powerhouse, it's not massively open, the marketing was nonexistent, they only seemed to use four voice actors for the entire thing, the story is weak at best. It just doesn't scream "we spent so much money on it!"

 

[GinoFelino]

I don't understand how MD is so divisive here on NeoGAF, it has some of the best level design and world building I've ever seen in a game with great music and and okay story. The hub world in itself is worth the full price. It's a huge playground with a myriad of secrets and tidbits of story just scattered everywhere. We constantly bitch about games like FO4 not having any substance, immersion or consequences, but when a similar-ish FPS/RPG hybrid comes out that achieves those things, everyone ignores it and just finds a small issue to validate not buying it.

Agreed completely, but I think delaying the game into the shadow of the No Man's Sky hype train did a huge amount of damage. SE more or less conducted itself as if this game was still making it out in February, and then stopped talking about it for close to six months. Late August is usually very hospital to games like this. It worked for BioShock and Human Revolution. Not sure the time spent on Thief was worth it in the long run either (or was that a separate team?). A game like this in 2014 would have won GOTY awards and sold quite a bit better.

The shadow of the No Man's Sky hype train? The shadow? The fuck? No Man's Sky is pretty much a non-entity in terms of drowning out other gaming stories these past weeks. Deus Ex had more room to breathe the past weeks than any AAA blockbuster will have for the rest of the year.

Anyway, concerning the game's merits: I've complained about it enough, so I'll concede that the world-building is excellent. A lot of love went into the visual design and all the emails and minutiae. If that's your thing, I totally understand why you'd love this. Gameplay-wise though...well, there's a reason not all people are professing their love from the rooftops

Depressing to see No Man's Sky do so well and this falter. I really enjoyed it.

Shows how important marketing is I guess.

Sony didn't do all that much in terms of actual marketing. The NMS hype train ran all by itself, and didn't need much from Sony to stoke the fire. Square-Enix just ran through the usual gamut of marketing tricks for DE:MD, and it just didn't pay off. I don't understand this 'lack of marketing' narrative.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Sony didn't do all that much in terms of actual marketing. Square-Enix didn't do that much less than NMS did in terms of marketing. The NMS hype train ran all by itself, and didn't need much from Sony to stoke the fire.

From a UK perspective, I saw several No Man's Sky ads on TV. There was even one with Bill Bailey in it and it had a feature on the BBC News.

I saw no adverts at all on TV for Deus Ex.

 

[TM94]

Sucks for those missing out, game is absolutely phenomenal.

 

[GinoFelino]

From a UK perspective, I saw several No Man's Sky ads on TV. There was even one with Bill Bailey in it and it had a feature on the BBC News.

I saw no adverts at all on TV for Deus Ex.

The more you know! No ads or anything where I live, and the biggest games usually have ads and billboards and stuff.

That said; you can't buy a spot on the BBC News. If you could, everyone would

 

[GeekMarty]

Mankind Divided is my second favorite game of the year so far and by now (August) I doubt that will change.

I hope this doesn't impact their plans to release a sequel.

 

[Welfare]

God, we have shit taste.

What even is good taste? That list is pretty varied. Sports, shooters, RPG's, open world, Minecraft, and LEGO.

 

[Giran]

Sucks for those missing out, game is absolutely phenomenal.

Seriously. I like it a bit less than HR and the original overall but it's still so damn good.

 

[Bronetta]

There's been too many other high profile games which released recently. I remember when Human Revolution launched that summer was relatively barebones.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

This was on my "maybe at launch/shortly after launch" list all along since I liked, but never finished HR. I hadn't been following the release or seeing any promotion of the game here in the US and it wasn't really on my radar. Nothing about the new game has grabbed me and I don't even remember why I stopped playing HR.

I played a little of my old HR save to see where I stopped, but I was away all last weekend. It's safe to say I'm going to wait to finish or give up on HR before buying MD so it's not a priority.

 

[tearsintherain]

The breach mode definitely drops the game score a LOT in my opinion, just like many of the ubisoft half assed multiplayer addons, the Breach game is just incredibly poorly designed, implemented, tested, and riddled with cash shop features that make it feel like a f2p mobile game.

Also while I kind of can appreciate Eidos wanting to tackle heavier subjects like "aug racism" and soldier trauma/PTSD, those are things I just don't really want to play. I play games for escapism and mindless shooting with no consequences. While I don't want to necessarily discourage developers from going against the grain of "feel good gaming", honestly end of the day thats really all I want to play and I am not sure now I really want to play Mafia 3 either.

 

[badnewsbeers]

I must admit, it doesn't feel very expensive to me. It's not a graphical powerhouse, it's not massively open, the marketing was nonexistent, they only seemed to use four voice actors for the entire thing, the story is weak at best. It just doesn't scream "we spent so much money on it!"

Huh? I think it looks great and the voice acting was fine. Beyond that it's just a solidly detailed game. I'd much rather place this with story littered everywhere and secrets all over the place than something like empty fallout 4.

 

[AKC12]

UK market once again showing they're a terrible market for non main stream games.

 

[Springfoot]

Well, let's see

Looking at the ones I specifically mentioned, Far Cry, Dishonoured, Splinter Cell, MGS..

MGS V: The current gold standard regarding freedom to go all-out action or full stealth. Allows you to get really creative with its array of tools, too. No dialogue options, though.

Far Cry: Minor dialogue options, but a lot of different means to complete your objective and both stealth and action are viable options.

Dishonoured: Pretty much Deus Ex: MD with more traversal options. No real dialogue options, though.

Splinter Cell Blacklist: Emphasis on traversal, but you have a lot of other tech tools to help you out. Brilliant, underrated stealth game. Plays great as a shooter, too.

So while they mostly lack the braching storylines, they match or exceed Deus Ex in providing different ways to complete your objective. However, I feel Deus Ex wouldn't be much worse off if it dropped the dialogue thing, too.

Lol wtf, dropping "the dialog thing" from a DX game is like dropping 'the parts with weapons' in MGS, Dishonored, Far Cry, and Splinter Cell. Like we get it, your posts make it blindingly obvious the original never appealed to you and you don't care for the new ones, but casually tossing out one the core aspects of the series as a potential solution is either intentionally disingenuous or missing the point entirely. Do you ever see those games or movies that are so detached from the original that you wonder why they didn't just give them a new name to start a new IP (one of the questions being asked on this very forum about the Prey games that were/are in development for example)? You're suggesting exactly that. You had peviously mentioned those other games as being comprable stand ins for a similar experience to DX, but given the lack of dialog choices, variety of NPCs to interact with, or vast amount of supplemental world-building in game reading material, not to mention total lack of the cyberpunk setting, none of them really are. I know because they're all games and series I play, and I'm always on the lookout for something else to fill that gaming space and nothing else really hits those marks.

I suspect the delay between sequels, marketing and general lack of media presence, alongside the general negativity surrounding it after the pre-order bonuses fiasco, announcement of (what turned out to be completely useless) microtransactions, and ending that was apparently chopped off too early by upper management in order to turn one game into several all combined to really hurt sales. I'm exactly their target market and didn't realize the game was coming out until seeing a post on GAF less than 2 weeks before release, and reading through these threads there are tons of examples of others who enjoyed HR and would enjoy this one but have been turned off by the air of negativity.

 

[GinoFelino]

Lol wtf, dropping "the dialog thing" from a DX game is like dropping 'the parts with weapons' in MGS, Dishonored, Far Cry, and Splinter Cell. Like we get it, your posts make it blindingly obvious the original never appealed to you and you don't care for the new ones, but casually tossing out one the core aspects of the series as a potential solution is either intentionally disingenuous or missing the point entirely. Do you ever see those games or movies that are so detached from the original that you wonder why they didn't just give them a new name to start a new IP (one of the questions being asked on this very forum about the Prey games that were/are in development for example)? You're suggesting exactly that. You had peviously mentioned those other games as being comprable stand ins for a similar experience to DX, but given the lack of dialog choices, variety of NPCs to interact with, or vast amount of supplemental world-building in game reading material, not to mention total lack of the cyberpunk setting, none of them really are. I know because they're all games and series I play, and I'm always on the lookout for something else to fill that gaming space and nothing else really hits those marks.

I suspect the delay between sequels, marketing and general lack of media presence, alongside the general negativity surrounding it after the pre-order bonuses fiasco, announcement of (what turned out to be completely useless) microtransactions, and ending that was apparently chopped off too early by upper management in order to turn one game into several all combined to really hurt sales. I'm exactly their target market and didn't realize the game was coming out until seeing a post on GAF less than 2 weeks before release, and reading through these threads there are tons of examples of others who enjoyed HR and would enjoy this one but have been turned off by the air of negativity.

I see that you care deeply about dialogue choices in Deus Ex. What do you think of its current implementation, then?

You're wrong about the original never appealing to me; it's one of my favourite games of all time. But to me, the latest iterations of Deus Ex are just as far removed from the original as a better modern version without dialogue options would be. I could easily see them dropping branching dialogue and maintaining the series' identity better than Mankind Divided does. But apparently we disagree

Regarding those other titles I mentioned; they hit upon key aspects of the Deus Ex series; not all of them, and not all of them at the same time!

 

[Piku_Ringo]

I don't even think NA sales are looking good either. Can't even offload an unopened copy of the CE even at a lower price

 

[Agent Gibbs]

That's a real shame this has been my game of the year so far! my only fault would be it should have been considerably longer

 

[pa22word]

I see that you care deeply about dialogue choices in Deus Ex. What do you think of its current implementation, then?

You're wrong about the original never appealing to me; it's one of my favourite games of all time. But to me, the latest iterations of Deus Ex are just as far removed from the original as a better modern version without dialogue options would be. I could easily see them dropping branching dialogue and maintaining the series' identity better than Mankind Divided does. But apparently we disagree

Regarding those other titles I mentioned; they hit upon key aspects of the Deus Ex series; not all of them, and not all of them at the same time!

Like, I just really don't get your argument.

Dues Ex, even the original, has always been a sum of its parts type of game. Unreal had better shooting, Thief had better stealth, the rtwp RPGs of the age had better systems and stories, numerous games had better melee, most games looked prettier, etc.

What always made DX special was how it combined all of them into a cohesive package rounded out with amazing, highly playful level design.

 

[Durante]

Like, I just really don't get your argument.

Dues Ex, even the original, has always been a sum of its parts type of game. Unreal had better shooting, Thief had better stealth, the rtwp RPGs of the age had better systems and stories, numerous games had better melee, most games looked prettier, etc.

What always made DX special was how it combined all of them into a cohesive package rounded out with amazing, highly playful level design.

I fully agree.

I generally feel like people in the modern age of analyzing and criticizing every individual part of a game to bits aren't sufficiently appreciative of "sum of its parts" games.

 

[GinoFelino]

Like, I just really don't get your argument.

Dues Ex, even the original, has always been a sum of its parts type of game. Unreal had better shooting, Thief had better stealth, the rtwp RPGs of the age had better systems and stories, numerous games had better melee, most games looked prettier, etc.

What always made DX special was how it combined all of them into a cohesive package rounded out with amazing, highly playful level design.

I fully agree.

I generally feel like people in the modern age of analyzing and criticizing every individual part of a game to bits aren't sufficiently appreciative of "sum of its parts" games.

I'm not disputing that at all. It's what made the first Deus Ex really special. But that golden combination is not as unique as it used to be, and I feel the new Deus Ex does a poor job of recreating the original's magic formula.

I was just saying I'd rather have the next Eidos Montreal Deus Ex drop dialogue systems altogether than to have them repeat this terrible implementation of it.

 

[A-V-B]

I fully agree.

I generally feel like people in the modern age of analyzing and criticizing every individual part of a game to bits aren't sufficiently appreciative of "sum of its parts" games.

The original DX was also really charming in a videogame-y sort of way.

 

[Loudninja]

Ouch! Really bad news for Deus Ex: Mankind Division, the game performed well below our upper bound extrapolation.

According to MCV, No Man's Sky outperformed its nearest rival by 100,000 units, by the way, note that the second best-selling game of the month wasn't even Deus Ex: Mankind Division but F1 2016. This means that at best, Deus Ex: Mankind Division sold 38,000 units during its first week.

[Week 32, 2016] 01 (NE) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) < 116,000
[Week 33, 2016] 02 (01) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) < 22,000 / 138,000 (-81%)

[B]August 2016[/B]

1. No Man's Sky < 138,000
2. F1 2016 < 38,000
3. Deus Ex: Mankind Division

116,000 was the upper bound for No Man's Sky debut based on Uncharted 3, but since there is no way F1 2016 or Deus Ex: Mankind Division sold way less than 38,000 units (I roughly had F1 2016 at 40,000 for its first 2 weeks) I will go with 115,000 for No Man's Sky launch week, it has to be very close to the upper limit.

[Week 32, 2016] 01 (NE) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 115,000
[Week 33, 2016] 02 (01) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 21,900 / 136,900 (-81%)
[Week 34, 2016] 03 (02) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 11,400 / 148,300 (-48%)
[Week 35, 2016] 07 (03) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 7,300 / 155,600 (-36%)

After 2 weeks:

Deus Ex: Mankind Division ~ 50,000
Deus Ex: Human Revolution ~ 150,000

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216260398&postcount=109

 

[Regginator]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216260398&postcount=109

Either this is a blessing or this is terrible news. If it's a blessing, Square will hopefully think twice about adding useless modes like Breach or whatever it is they put so much money on it like Jim Sterling said. But it's terrible news if this convinces to put little effort in a sequel.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I think the tides are finally turning as people don't just throw money at a preorder like they use to. This all started with that botched "augment your preorder" and it's been down hill from there.

Except in the same month NMS sold more than one million (two millions?) units, most of it on release day or before (preorder).

 

[SomTervo]

I don't understand how MD is so divisive here on NeoGAF, it has some of the best level design and world building I've ever seen in a game with great music and and okay story. The hub world in itself is worth the full price. It's a huge playground with a myriad of secrets and tidbits of story just scattered everywhere. We constantly bitch about games like FO4 not having any substance, immersion or consequences, but when a similar-ish FPS/RPG hybrid comes out that achieves those things, everyone ignores it and just finds a small issue to validate not buying it.

Yeah, it has its problems and at times feels quite 'last-gen' but the issues are overshadowed by great content and systems.

 

[CHC]

I don't understand how MD is so divisive here on NeoGAF, it has some of the best level design and world building I've ever seen in a game with great music and and okay story. The hub world in itself is worth the full price. It's a huge playground with a myriad of secrets and tidbits of story just scattered everywhere. We constantly bitch about games like FO4 not having any substance, immersion or consequences, but when a similar-ish FPS/RPG hybrid comes out that achieves those things, everyone ignores it and just finds a small issue to validate not buying it.

I'm one of the biggest fans of the original game you'll find, and I also quite like Human Revolution, despite some flaws. That said, I agree with what you said about Mankind Divided but being completely honest with myself, the writing is extremely mediocre, verging on bad. The core conflict of the game is extremely vague and poorly set up, none of the characters are particularly interesting, and the entire aug theme is mined to total exhaustion in ways that are often cliched or not especially nuanced or realistic feeling.

I spent about 30 hours exploring the world and had a really good time, and I think I have about an hour of the game left before finishing. That said I really just have no desire to return to it and finish because I really just don't care, whatsoever, at all about anything that's going on in it. I certainly feel like I got my money's worth but I really don't see myself returning to play this again. There are a lot of great elements but I think the entire package is really brought down by its tiring writing.

 

[Nirolak]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216260398&postcount=109

Thanks.

 

[rhandino]

I remember some concerns around E3 where the game passed by most people radars to the point that many forgot that the game was even there.

Truly a game that needed his launch to be sooner.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

This will be heartbreaking for me if the sales are so bad they don't invest in a sequel, considering how they left Mankind Divided up for one. The game has a few flaws but this game along with DOOM and DS3 are GOTY contenders so far for me.

 

[Kinyou]

This is not the kind of update I wanted...

 

[Lime]

Either this is a blessing or this is terrible news. If it's a blessing, Square will hopefully think twice about adding useless modes like Breach or whatever it is they put so much money on it like Jim Sterling said. But it's terrible news if this convinces to put little effort in a sequel.

I'm not sure how you can convince a publisher to throw more money at an IP that supposedly bombed?

 

[Rexatality]

Man, this is just getting worse and worse. I'll be disappointed if they don't continue where they left off

Spoiler

Hope Dishonored 2 doesn't share the same fate

 

[Z3M0G]

[Week 32, 2016] 01 (NE) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 115,000
[Week 33, 2016] 02 (01) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 21,900 / 136,900 (-81%)
[Week 34, 2016] 03 (02) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 11,400 / 148,300 (-48%)
[Week 35, 2016] 07 (03) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 7,300 / 155,600 (-36%)

Why is this called the 2nd best selling Sony IP of all time?

 

[Prime crotch]

yeeeeesh; no wonder Square is running around like a headless chicken if they can't get a hit right

 

[Nirolak]

[Week 32, 2016] 01 (NE) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 115,000
[Week 33, 2016] 02 (01) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 21,900 / 136,900 (-81%)
[Week 34, 2016] 03 (02) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 11,400 / 148,300 (-48%)
[Week 35, 2016] 07 (03) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 7,300 / 155,600 (-36%)

Why is this called the 2nd best selling Sony IP of all time?

For the debut week on PS4.

 

[Morts]

Damn. Hopefully word of mouth helps it out. The game deserves better.

Maybe it sold fifty million in North America...

 

[Conscience Falls]

I'm not sure how you can convince a publisher to throw more money at an IP that supposedly bombed?

I mean, if the alleged part two of DXNG is true, they've already put enough money into the next title that we may get it in order to recoup some costs. I suppose that all depends on how far along it was/is at the point of sales news hitting Square.

North America will probably be similarly low going off of what people in this thread are saying as well as anecdotal evidence from casual fans of the series not knowing Mankind Divided was even released. That said, in the past week I know quite a few people that have picked up the game on PC/Xbox simply because they've seen it in stores or spoke with someone that has been playing it. I double dipped on Steam for the futile sake of doing what I can to see the narrative continued past this clearly table setting venture.

 

[NeoRaider]

NMS selling this much makes me angry for some reason. I am glad no one is talking about that game anymore.

DE deserve more.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

[Week 32, 2016] 01 (NE) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 115,000
[Week 33, 2016] 02 (01) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 21,900 / 136,900 (-81%)
[Week 34, 2016] 03 (02) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 11,400 / 148,300 (-48%)
[Week 35, 2016] 07 (03) NO MAN'S SKY (SONY COMPUTER ENT.) ~ 7,300 / 155,600 (-36%)

Why is this called the 2nd best selling Sony IP of all time?

New IP published by Sony on the PS4, I believe were the minutae.

 

[Regginator]

I'm not sure how you can convince a publisher to throw more money at an IP that supposedly bombed?

Not more money, less money. Why did they even put resources in that Breach nonsense and relatively little in marketing and advertising? Both of these have contributed to these low sales: they slapped more money on DXMD than necessary (and thus it needs more to break even), and by allocating resources to bullshit modes like Breach they've had a smaller marketing budget.

 

[Lime]

Not more money, less money. Why did they even put resources in that Breach nonsense and relatively little in marketing and advertising? Both of these have contributed to these low sales: they slapped more money on DXMD than necessary (and thus it needs more to break even), and by allocating resources to bullshit modes like Breach they've had a smaller marketing budget.

There is only one way to play the AAA sales games - go big or go out. Scaling back production values and game modes will only make consumers less likely to buy a 60 dollar product in today's climate where AAA means certain expectations for the average consumer.

 

[BoosterDuck]

Square's fault for meddling this game into oblivion

I'm surprised the game was able to get released

 

[Boke1879]

Square's fault for meddling this game into oblivion

I'm surprised the game was able to get released

Hardly due to their meddling. It just doesn't seem people were gung ho to pick up this title.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

These games just never appealed to me - maybe ill try one one day. One day