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[mrklaw]

I seem to remember that DVD actually had a feature that allowed it to dynamically vary the pan&scan area on a widescreen movie, for display on a 4:3 TV. So you'd have a normal widescreen movie but could define - frame by frame - where the 4:3 window was located

I don't know if it was actually used much, or whether studios simply produced 4:3 discs instead. I assume many 4:3 presentations aren't simply pans anyway, there would be some zooming or other alteration of the framing

 

[berzeli]

Cinemascope makes kinda sense - twice as wide as TV so I guess it was a marketing thing at the time. But why were others different - bit of an arms race with studios?

Arms race. And that's how we ended up with this (to oversimplify it by quite a bit, each named system is proprietary to a studio*):

The differing ratios basically comes down to type of types of lenses, cameras, whether you matte off, and type of film (i.e. the type you shoot on 70mm, 35mm, etc.)
*To make it less oversimplified, several studios developed their own widescreen process, (e.g. Fox with Cinemascope, Paramount with Vistavision) but there were several non American systems as well (especially 'scope knock-offs). A lot of them using similar techniques to their American counterparts. And studios licensed the use of formats as well. So it isn't one format per studio.

And just to illustrate how insane Cinerama is (because that graph doesn't convey how batshit it is):

 

[Ravelle]

It's dumb in the year we live in, we can buy the biggest and most expensive television we can find but we're still stuck with very narrow movies.

 

[Sec0nd]

I love the cinemascope aspect ratio. It allows for beautiful compositions. Not to say 16:9 can't create beautiful cinematography. But 16:9 quickly makes everything a close up with no room to breath. Even landscape shots will become 'close ups' or will have a lot of wasted room on the top and bottom of the shot. Close ups in cinemascope still have a lot of room to breath and well composed landscape shots become epic.

 

[Rookhelm]

One of my favorite shots of all time is in Lawrence of Arabia, which would be different if shot more narrow

I think there's a better shot when he's basically just a dot on the horizon, but this is what I found on Google

 

[Transistor]

I prefer viewing films in their original aspect ratio. Are people really that bothered by empty space?

 

[jstripes]

I prefer viewing films in their original aspect ratio. Are people really that bothered by empty space?

They feel like something has been taken away from them.

 

[Ravelle]

I prefer viewing films in their original aspect ratio. Are people really that bothered by empty space?

Open space no, not be able to utilize the entire television yes. Also the further you sit from the tv the more of an issue it becomes.

 

[cwmartin]

Open space no, not be able to utilize the entire television yes. Also the further you sit from the tv the more of an issue it becomes.

It's not an issue because thats the way its meant to be viewed. That's like critiquing a painting because you think the color of a paint should be different.

 

[Woorloog]

honestly this thread is the first time I've read that 16:9 was designed as a compromise between academy and wider movie ratios. I thought 16:9 was supposed to be a golden ratio and thats why it was chosen?

Golden ratio is 1:1,61. That is approximately 16:10 rather than 16:9. For reason or another, 16:10 never took off.

 

[neoanarch]

Imagine taking the Mona Lisa and slicing off edges to make it fit your specific frame. Its like that.

The director makes a movie in the aspect ratio they desire, and I want to see their movie the way they desired to make it.

It's funny you went with Mona Lisa because the Mona Lisa is chopped up as is...

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Guys why can't painters stick to A4 so it fills the page on my printer?

This is probably the best analogy for this shitty argument that I've seen in the thread.

People love to feel like they got robbed, apparently. They seek this feeling out in the strangest places.

 

[Ravelle]

It's not an issue because thats the way its meant to be viewed. That's like critiquing a painting because you think the color of a paint should be different.

No, I didn't say anything about what's being shown.

It's not about if I did or didn't like the intended aspect ratio or experience, it's about not being able to use your whole television and the distance you're sitting from.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It's not about if I did or didn't like the intended aspect ratio or experience, it's about not being able to use your whole television

These two things are so linked that trying to suggest they're two separate things doesn't make any sense.

 

[NewFresh]

Is this a real complaint in 2017? Are we going through the DVD transition again?

God, that feeling when you realize you accidentally rented the non widescreen version of a movie from blockbuster.

 

[berzeli]

not be able to utilize the entire television

*twitch*

Your TV is literally designed the way it is in order to display these films in this manner. When you watch a film in scope with the black bars it is utilising the entire television.

 

[Temeculan3000]

No, I didn't say anything about what's being shown.

It's not about if I did or didn't like the intended aspect ratio or experience, it's about not being able to use your whole television and the distance you're sitting from.

Of course it's annoying knowing there is unused space on your screen, but is more annoying to miss out on part of the picture.

The only real solution to that issue is to install a 2.35:1 screen and a projector in your home. Of course, on those setups 16:9 films have "black bars" on the left and right sides of the screen. To solve that you install black velvet curtains that can slide in to cover the unused space and make it look seamless.

 

[robotrock]

if a movie is less than two hours long and takes up only half of the screen...yeah I'm gonna feel ripped off

 

[Bobby Roberts]

if a movie is less than two hours long and takes up only half of the screen...yeah I'm gonna feel ripped off

Normally (ish) I could tell if this sentiment was satire or not.

Today is not that day.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

if a movie is less than two hours long and takes up only half of the screen...yeah I'm gonna feel ripped off

You must feel ripped off by Casablanca. Less than 100 minutes, has black bars on the side of your HDTV, and doesn't even have the courtesy to be in color. It must be a horrible rip off then.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

even if in the future displays are not physical anymore or for whatever other reason they are able to change their dimension to align with the media you'll still have people complaining that not every film is configured to the maximum area the display could in theory cover, winch could be a square or a circle, but since it is bigger it must be better.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

if a movie is less than two hours long and takes up only half of the screen...yeah I'm gonna feel ripped off

 

[mrklaw]

in the days of 21" 4:3 CRTs, watching a 2.35:1 letterboxed movie was quite an impact on viewing size. I can almost understand the complaints with DVD back then, even though my personal choice was very much OAR

But in modern times where I'd guess the average flat screen is 40-50" and 16:9, that really doesn't wash anymore. Its not really hardship to watch 2.35:1 with little bars on a really big TV.

 

[Rellik]

It's why I'm considering an ultrawide monitor.

 

[burgerdog]

Fuck HBO for not showing movies in their original aspect ratio. Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[Lys Skygge]

Fuck HBO for not showing movies in their original aspect ratio. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Completely agree with this. I never watch movies on HBO for this very reason.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm all for letterboxing. I have a huge screen (projector) so I care fuck-all of I'm not using every square inch of it.

 

[itwasTuesday]

I mean look at this hot garbage.

now this

ohh baby.
Rectangles are dumb anyway.

Cap from How the West Was Won, presented in smilebox, a format that was used to mimick the cinerama look for home audiences.

4:3 would be like you see a random branch, part of the horses head, a beard(although lawmen had be clean shaven) and maybe some cowboy hat. Tv was pretty much just radio plays before 2000.

 

[EGM1966]

if a movie is less than two hours long and takes up only half of the screen...yeah I'm gonna feel ripped off

Not bad.

 

[Wiped89]

It's not an issue because thats the way its meant to be viewed. That's like critiquing a painting because you think the color of a paint should be different.

That's how it's meant to be viewed in the cinema

There are no black bars in the cinema because the screen is a different shape.

'Movie TVs' with a movie aspect ratio would be awesome

But then you'd be left with black bars on the sides for normal 16:9 and 4:3 TV content

 

[mcrommert]

Oh God can't so much hate in my soul now

 

[SmackDaddy]

OAR for life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqslgDiDD64

 

[Octavia]

Just shoot in 16:9 from now on, jesus.

Black bars are a waste.

 

[Mohonky]

If 21:9 tvs took off, no issue

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

That's how it's meant to be viewed in the cinema

There are no black bars in the cinema because the screen is a different shape.

'Movie TVs' with a movie aspect ratio would be awesome

But then you'd be left with black bars on the sides for normal 16:9 and 4:3 TV content

You're not getting Mona Lisa in two different formats depending on the room you want to hang the painting in.

And that's how the cinematographer/director want it to be framed. Period. Regardless of primary screening milieu.

 

[Ricky_R]

I don't like them per se, but I don't mind them when they are used.

 

[EGM1966]

That's how it's meant to be viewed in the cinema

There are no black bars in the cinema because the screen is a different shape.

'Movie TVs' with a movie aspect ratio would be awesome

But then you'd be left with black bars on the sides for normal 16:9 and 4:3 TV content

That's why it's important to understand films are made for the cinema first, at ratio director wishes. TV is a reproduction representation not the guenuine experience. Thus depending on ratio there's going to be a miss match. The issue isn't the film it's wathcing them on a TV to be honest.

If you want the real experience as intended get to the cinema, otherwise accept (as I do when I watch at home) that it's an imperfect (but can be damn close) reproduction of the intended experience.

Either that or invest in multiple TV sets of different format I guess.

But the point stands: you can't ask a medium seperate from TV to constrain itself to what happens to tbe the current TV format.

Just be glad you're not watching a pan/scan film on 4:3.

BTW I'm not being an elitist here just objective. It's no different from looking at a painting reproduced in a book that is most likely not the actual dimensions of the original painting.

 

[itwasTuesday]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/7OOgO1F.jpg[/img]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82j_Qfp_VA

 

[captive]

They feel like something has been taken away from them.

which is funny cause if you cropped it then you would have literally taken something away from them.



i remember holding these views until i was educated on the matter.

 

[mcrommert]

I actually enjoy watching the Star Trek TNG blurays because its nice every so often to watch something framed for 4:3

You can actually enjoy it if you try

Or just watch all your movies on tv where they crop everything from 16:9

EDIT: if 21:9 tvs were more prevalent i would get one of those...that way its a straight horizontal cut when the cropping is different

 

[Sec0nd]

Watching The Avengers in 16:9 in the cinemas was a pretty terrible experience.

 

[captive]

That's how it's meant to be viewed in the cinema

There are no black bars in the cinema because the screen is a different shape.

'Movie TVs' with a movie aspect ratio would be awesome

But then you'd be left with black bars on the sides for normal 16:9 and 4:3 TV content

if you actually pay attention at the start of the movie most theaters move the curtains or some sort of masks based on the aspect ratio of the movie. How else do you think they show 16x9 movies and 2x39 movies in the same theaters? Not all movies are filmed at 2x39, many romcoms and comedies are filmed at 16x9.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Fuck HBO for not showing movies in their original aspect ratio. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Agreed. Ruins the framing and composition of movies for the wide frame and feels all zoomed in because they cut like 30% of the picture just to make a damn 16x9 image.

OAR for life!

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

I don't like it, but its fine. I'm sure I've watched tons of cropped movies and never even noticed though.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

That's why it's important to understand films are made for the cinema first, at ratio director wishes. TV is a reproduction representation not the guenuine experience. Thus depending on ratio there's going to be a miss match. The issue isn't the film it's wathcing them on a TV to be honest.

Not entirely true. There are obviously DTV titles that also use other aspect ratios than 16x9. Choosing a frame or another doesn't only have to do with where it's going to be screened. Even if the AR was created for theatrical screening to begin with.

 

[mrklaw]

That's how it's meant to be viewed in the cinema

There are no black bars in the cinema because the screen is a different shape.

'Movie TVs' with a movie aspect ratio would be awesome

But then you'd be left with black bars on the sides for normal 16:9 and 4:3 TV content

But cinema screens are all aspect ratios, they just mask off the parts necessary to make the aspect ratio for the particular movie they’re showing. And actually more and more cinemas I’ve been to don’t even bother, they just project 2.35:1 onto a big 1.85:1 screen so you still actually have bars.

So even in the cinema some movies aren’t 'using' all the screen

 

[Beer Monkey]

Solution: Buy a theater, adjust the projector and curtains to properly mask each presentation. Problem solved.

You can actually do this at home for a few tens of thousands of dollars.

Want to do a more ghetto approach? Make black foamcore mattes for your TV and affix with velcro and vary your viewing distance based on the film.

Sorry, you don't get to fuck up the aspect ratio for everybody else by compromising the Blu-Ray.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

if you actually pay attention at the start of the movie most theaters move the curtains or some sort of masks based on the aspect ratio of the movie. How else do you think they show 16x9 movies and 2x39 movies in the same theaters? Not all movies are filmed at 2x39, many romcoms and comedies are filmed at 16x9.

Have 1.78 really taken over as a theatrical AR – or do you mean 1.85?

 

[itwasTuesday]

Ops right, in the case of Batman Mask of the Phantasm, pillar boxes are the correct way.

 

[Unison]

Oops... thought this was a thread about letterboxd.