Sentenza
Member
Can't think of a single one.
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Edge 249: Dark Souls II. To be more "direct," "straightforward," and "understandable"
- Thread starter Visualante2
- Start date
BlazingDarkness
Member
None of those things mean 'easier'.
Technosteve
Banned
when is the digital copy going to be up?
Doctor Decimate
Member
that's completely irrelevant because veterans of a series will always bitch INCESSANTLY about any change at all
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
As long as they have a veteran mode that is just as hard as the previous games I dont see a problem.
Very troubling comments. Even if they are just talking more about the story it's still pretty bad. Finding and piecing the lore together is really satisfying. There should be some kind of codex for easy consolidation of that information, but that should be it.
Just as long as the veteran mode is the primary mode. The easy and normal should literally just be slapped on with minimal effort (just give the player more HP, give enemies less).
Just as long as the veteran mode is the primary mode. The easy and normal should literally just be slapped on with minimal effort (just give the player more HP, give enemies less).
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Et tu, From Soft?
It feels like I won't be gaming anymore 2 years from now because everything is being dumbed down to chase a demographic that simply doesn't give a shit about a certain ip.
It feels like I won't be gaming anymore 2 years from now because everything is being dumbed down to chase a demographic that simply doesn't give a shit about a certain ip.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Not to attack you or anything, but how is that possible? I mean, all of the relevant information is in the game or the manual. Could it be that instead of the game being too obtuse for human minds to comprehend, you just simply gave up?
There's a certain satisfaction that you get from using your head and figuring things out. That's what the series has been about. That's what it made popular.
It's not talking about difficulty. The PR is clear that this is still going to be very challenging.
decoyplatypus
Member
I'm not sure if the same buzzwords were used, but Nintendo clearly tried to make Zelda more accessible for a broader audience after AoL, and that worked out pretty damned well.
A lot of people liked Mass Effect 2 even though the RPG elements were, from what I understand, reduced for a mainstream audience (never played the series, so I can't speak with authority on the subject).
Dark Souls is a special case because a lot of its appeal is bound up with elements that make it "inaccessible." But given that From could just do a tiny bit more to communicate certain game systems and say they had made the game more "direct," "straightforward," and "understandable," I think people are panicking for no reason. I mean, a game with an accurate description of the Tiny Being's Ring would be more understandable than Dark Souls. I think we could all live with that.
Yeah, I wouldn't be worried at all about the new guys if they hadn't said those awful things...
XANDER CAGE
Member
Don't forget that CDPR has said pretty similar things about Cyberpunk. Accessibility and difficulty are not the same thing. I know that a lot of developers use it as a code-word for "shitty", but quite frankly I have no reason to believe FROM is in that camp.
Alex
Member
Yep, there's def some bits that are outright tuned towards FAQ diving. Cleaning up the front end while preserving the core would be appreciated by me.
piratepwnsninja
Member
A million times this.
This doesn't stop some developers from confusing the two though, which leads to the kind of worrying present here.
This should only worry someone if they think obtuseness was what made Dark Souls great.
Haunted
Member
Ban all the chicken littles if the game turns out fine. Ban me if the game is another Invisible War.
If From Software of all companies hasn't earned themselves some fucking trust over the last decade of releases, I don't know who has.
If From Software of all companies hasn't earned themselves some fucking trust over the last decade of releases, I don't know who has.
Thank you. I'm keeping track of the people who react appropriately to this and put them on my trustworthy GAFer list.
XANDER CAGE
Member
From the press release:
PR statements, obviously, but it's pretty clear said PR people know why people like the series.
PR statements, obviously, but it's pretty clear said PR people know why people like the series.
Well this is true, but I still haven't ever through the games were that hard, despite what marketing tries to make me think.
Until they show me videos of Quicktime Souls, I'm just going to assume making it more accessible means removing parts like Anor Londo archers, Bed of Chaos, and so on.
Regardless I'm a little biased since I'm in it for the PvP, but I still enjoy the single player a lot. I enjoy it for game mechanics and the setting though. I could go through the game without dying once and not enjoy it any less.
Huh, I didn't give up, I finished the game. When it comes to a lot of subsystems a lot of it is underexplained or not explained at all. The world tendency stuff, for instance. Or weapon crafting. Sorry no, these games are cryptic and obtuse, that's just what they are. I really liked DS, but I don't see anything wrong with trying to make them more "understandable".
Hot Coldman
Banned
Build the wiki into the game! Make some weird online system (call it SoulsNet or something) that essentially acts as a fan-driven wiki accessible from the game. Kinda like Miiverse.
H_Prestige
Banned
People don't want inaccessibility because it makes the game hard. It's because it gives the game a mysterious, less "game-y" feel, and fosters the development of online communities. It makes the journey more enjoyable.
Riposte
Member
The way you say this make it seem like you don't know From makes a lot of games which get mixed reviews. Big fan of the Armored Core series? (I am.) What about Steel Battalion?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
As a hardcore Demon's/Dark Souls fan I see nothing wrong with the statements. Lets face it, the majority of folks seemed to check out the wiki or ask someone what this means, what to do here, how to do this. I'm guessing they're just working on making mechanics/goals more clear for those who need it, and everything else will remain the same.
I see why there is concern, but they deserve the benefit of the doubt I would think.
I see why there is concern, but they deserve the benefit of the doubt I would think.
Dion Blaster
Member
I'm all for making the game more intuitive, but going for the Skyrim crowd sounds like a really bad idea.
Cramoss
Member
It helped.
Dwight Schrute
Member
I think the only thing fan need is see some gameplay with huge bosses and characters being st on fre by dragons and falling into ealy traps and everyone will be OK.
If I remember well, the first dark souks trailer was 98% CG with occasional game shots. Then they released more gameplay. This is what we are waiting for.
If I remember well, the first dark souks trailer was 98% CG with occasional game shots. Then they released more gameplay. This is what we are waiting for.
Dictator93
Member
This is what I imagine.
I'm not concerned about difficulty, but there was something meta about the parallels between anonymously helping strangers in-game and then checking guides or discussing stuff in forums. Taking away the obscurity would probably kill that thing I feel is core of the Souls concept.
And the obscure stuff is usually side-stuff, I never had many problems finding where to go and what to do next, and the few moments I did, messages left by people would help me (like put your ring on before 4Ks).
Haunted
Member
Good to see some sensible GAFers left, I was starting to worry there for a sec.
I don't know enough about the company/team structure to have made that comment in certainty, I was specifically referring to the King's Field -> Souls line of games (which I assumed to be made by an internal team different from the Armored Core/Chromehounds line).
edit: as an aside, I didn't know they made Otogi. That game was pretty sweet.
There's a lot of people involved in these games. The director usually has the most input. This time its a different fella. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical or cautious. Blind faith/love is just as silly.
Anyway. Look at Armored Core or any of their other series. Not every King's Field was perfect either. There's hits and misses.
Benefits of being on said list?
XANDER CAGE
Member
Armored Core (I'm also a fan) and Steel Battalion (I'm a fan... of the old one) are many things, but easy is definitely not one of them.
Skepticism is absolutely fine, but let's not act like the sky is falling until we actually, you know, have any information other than blurbs and PR. Heck, like I just posted, the PR actually seems to understand why people like Souls.
Haunted
Member
You'll see when you're on there. Not that you'd stand a chance with dorfdad's avatar.
Yes.
I overreacted to the overreaction, my apologies. Can't believe the day has come where I defended From from Souls fans and not the other way around. :lol
But—and I'm being selfish here, when I typically try not to be about game—I don't want explanations. For most games, that's fine. What I love about Demon's / Dark Souls is that they're different, and that's one of the things that makes them different. I'm given the choice as to if I want something explained to me or not. I can go online, do research, and find out about the various Covenants—or I can play the game and enjoy that mystery.
So many games these days don't have mystery. Everything is explained, and then over-explained, and then explained again just to make sure you understand if you're too stupid to by now. I like not knowing what an item does, or how to save a character, or any of that stuff until either I find it for myself, or I decide to go research the answer.
Again—I'm going to be selfish, and I'm not going to feel bad about it. If you (in the general sense) can't hang with the difficulty in the games, don't play then. If you think the games are too mysterious, then either do research or don't play. I don't want the things I love about Demon's / Dark Souls tainted because we now have to pander to those who can't stand to have something be cryptic, or who can't hang with challenge.
The compromise I'd be okay with would be one not just of difficulty, but also entire gameplay concepts. Make Dark Souls II exactly like Dark Souls was in terms of how the game presents elements, storyline, etc., but then have a "I need everything explained to me" mode where the game isn't as hard, and you get all of your annoying pop-up tutorials and hand-holding and all of that.
Give me the option to not have my experience not dumbed down or tainted in the pursuit of "accessibility". And to be clear, I'm not worrying about all of this just yet—I'm simply commenting on the conversation going on about what the game could end up being.
Haunted
Member
I'll put you up for consideration.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I could get behind that. I understand that discovery is important, but I don't see any harm in making some things a bit easier and straightforward to understand from the get go.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Well, that's the point. If you want to make the UI clearer (no more squiggles), I'm totally ok with that. Weapon crafting falls under this. Why do you need to know exactly what world tendency does? White = good, black = bad, with varying degrees in the middle. It's much more in the flavor of the game when a Black Phantom NPC appears/disappears because of the WT instead of having a description that said "Evil NPCs will appear at this level of BWT. This adds that air of mystery and the threat that maybe on this try, not everything will be like I expect, so I should still keep my guard up. Why does everything have to be spelled out for you?
You know why people talked about the pendant gift in Dark Souls so much? Because no one knew what it did! People liked that. Imagine if the description just said "This does nothing." Do you think any single person would have discussed that item then?
I don't see how having the game explain how the game works, instead of having Dark Souls Wiki explain how the game works, is "dumbing down" the experience. Why do you enjoy finding things out online more? How does that improve the game?
Can't remember if the developers ever talked about it in interviews, but Persona 4 (and Persona 4 Golden on top of that) are pretty decent examples I think. Both are easier and more accessible than previous iterations, both met with more praise from reviewers and fans than previous iterations, both opened the franchise up to even wider audiences. The people who feel P4 is worse than P3 are a minority, and people who feel that Golden is worse than P4 are one talkative dude in the official thread, heh.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
On one hand, a lot of people are in panic over "The A Word" being thrown around. It seems they're only talking about how well the game explains itself to the player, not stuff like dumbing down the core game concept and difficulty.
On the other hand, just be sure, someone needs to postal mail FROM a copy of vanilla Ninja Gaiden III taped to a severed pinkie finger with a note: "Remember what happened to Hayashi."
Just to be sure.
On the other hand, just be sure, someone needs to postal mail FROM a copy of vanilla Ninja Gaiden III taped to a severed pinkie finger with a note: "Remember what happened to Hayashi."
Just to be sure.