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Final Fantasy Brand Was Considered “In Danger” Pre-FFXV, Had <5M Initial Sales Target

Final Fantasy XV is clearly a failure of a game. It didn't even chart in the objective top 10 list of 2016 games:

1. Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (XBO, PS4, PC) 9.4
2. Superdimension Neptune VS Sega Hard Girls (PSV) 9.2
3. Dragon Quest VII: Fragments of the Forgotten Past (3DS) 9.1
4. Yomawari: Night Alone (PSV, PC) 9.0
5. Mantis Burn Racing (XBO, PS4, PC) 8.9
5. Hitman (XBO, PS4, PC) 8.9
5. Gurumin 3D: A Monstrous Adventure (3DS) 8.9
5. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice (3DS) 8.9
9. Push Me Pull You (PS4) 8.8
9. Grand Kingdom (PS4, PSV) 8.8

Back in the PS1 days, a new Final Fantasy would have been in competition for first spot. Now it can't even crack the top 10. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
 

Sulik2

Member
I still have no interest in FFXV, but it does seem like they at least released a decent game, even if the story wasn't actually finished. I am more interested in seeing what Tabata makes when he has control from the start for FFXVI.
 
I'm glad to see it did so well. After FFXII damaged the franchise, it's good to see the series at least get back to where it was.

Let's just keep Ito FAR FAR away from FFXVI.
 

Koozek

Member
They're saying the game sold well and people are asserting that it's good and that anyone who disagrees is a hater.

I don't think they're going to start intentionally undercooking games, but the ardent defenders are sending the message that if they do, it's fine.
#TabataEra
But even the biggest "defenders" (me included, I guess :D) always make sure to emphasize its glaring narrative issues. I don't think anyone reasonable would deny that. Even Tabata recently stated in an interview that he knows the story wasn't well-received:
Hajime Tabata: "As a current generation game, there has been a lot of satisfied feedback. We've seen an impressive amount of feedback such as, &#8216;it's a very important title as it's a major step in Final Fantasy moving forward to the next stage.' However, players that put maximum priority on story have the same opinion as those in Japan (their level of satisfaction is low)."​
 
It's in my top 3 ff's and i can comfortably say even without the development issues the story and cutscene transition and direction wouldn't have been much better if any better. Tabata has troubles with those two things you only need to look at his other games
 
Fascinating insight and wording! I never once gave credence to the constant mutterings about death knells (right up there with Nintendo) but it's interesting to hear their PR version of internal questions. I just always assumed that no matter the quality there'd always be Final Fantasies made, no matter how many of its releases I've ignored. For this particular project, I wonder who pushed for all the interesting marketing decisions more.

Besides as someone's sure to have mentioned, I'm positive we'd at least get a Triple Triad mobile game before dissipation if that doesn't already exist?
 

dramatis

Member
It's quite easy to doubt Tabata's words because he has lied before. He is either lying or exaggerating, because the FF brand has been doing quite well under FF14 and its recent mobile games. To put all the weight of the brand on his own performance is unsavory and egotistic.

Something that is also bizarre is the use of GAF game of the year rankings to assert FF15's superiority, when it wasn't like the game was GAF game of the year lol

Moreover the limit of sales/critic comparisons to older FF releases is no good; comparisons of how FF15 performed for the brand to contemporary rivals like The Witcher or Elder Scrolls can give perspective too. But then the comparisons can't be spun favorably (although I wouldn't put it past the devoted, really) for FF15. The market has grown a lot the past few years, but FF15 is not even growing sales for the brand despite launching worldwide simultaneously on multiple platforms.

If your target, with this much investment, is less sales than most of your predecessors, then you were a failure from the start.
 

Suplexer

Member
Despite the third act, I really did love the game, so I'm glad it did well. The combat was incredibly fun, in a way that JRPG games almost never are.

I really hope the two button combat system carries over to other games.
 

Falchion

Member
Damn, didn't realize things were looking so bad for the series. I know I haven't been interested in the more recent entries at all until XV so I guess it's worked.
 

Loona

Member
Dissidia barely has enough to release as a 60 dollar release, want less stuff than SFV?

After the year of arcade exclusivity had passed they could have made a F2P adaptation for PSN in the DoA5/Killer Instinct mold (even if only outside Japan to make up for the fact the rest of the world has no access to the arcade version), with a couple of rotating free characters and paid permanent acquisitions and skins - then once they were satisfied with the amount of playable characters, they could release a paid version with the whole cast. considering Tecmo-Koei's working with SE on the current Dissidia and they manage coexisting F2P and paid-in-full versions of DoA5 it could have been a viable option.

Or just release the mobile Opera Omnia in English outside Japan, that could work for a while as well.

The series died when 11 was a mmo and 12 tried to be a mmo. Since then they have been chasing monster hunter, assassins creed and judging by the writing trying to emulate a grug book. Basically anything except trying to just make the best final fantasy game possible.

With XI being the most profitable FF in the series (at least up to a few years back, AFAIK they haven't released an equivalent statement in recent years), it likely made it possible to finance XIV's renewal and anything that would follow.

FFXI has an amazing story too, people just like to ignore it because "MMO". XIV is a lot more accessible at least and I'm glad for it. The game's story and world building gives me life.

This. It's depressing how little SE bother to make people aware of it - they just collect the subscription fees, keep a skeleton crew releasing monthly updates, but don't really bother to try and get new players.
 

FinalAres

Member
This. It's depressing how little SE bother to make people aware of it - they just collect the subscription fees, keep a skeleton crew releasing monthly updates, but don't really bother to try and get new players.

I love FFXI, in fact I'm about to replay the story for the first time in years, but the game itself is kind of not good.

The menus are horrible, nearly everything is done through an NPC (having to double confirm nearly everything), there's no direction, using a Wikipedia walk-through is compulsory, it's still (though so much better now) really grindy and there are endless barriers to progress (like LB quests) etc.

There's really really really good stuff too. Like the horizontal gear system, job system, story etc. But most people won't get to that because of the rest of the game.

Basically it needs a remake.
 

Socivol

Member
FF XV is my favorite from a gameplay perspective. Had they tightened up and expanded the story it would be my favorite game in the franchise.
 

LordKasual

Banned
1) XV is not going to age well. The game is still pretty new but I fully expect a XIII-like turn by next year. It will be a banner title for "how not to make a game."

A XIII-like reception turn isn't even possible for XV. The reason XIII's reception soured the way it did is because the game's initial release was carried by the series' high reputation and the excitement of the first next-gen, fully HD FF experience. XV was releasing off a 10-year limbo and off the heels of the lowest received mainline FF games in history.

Can't see the game itself aging that fast either, for multiple reasons. First off, the game is still promised significant content updates, as well as story enhancements. PS4 Pro still has room for further improvements. We've just seen first images of what could be a PC release. The game is getting better as it ages. And as far as its tech and visuals go, it's one of the most impressive titles on console, and will likely be one of the most impressive on PC as well.

2) SNES-PSX era FF pushed the genre forward and innovated within the medium. FFXV does not push the genre forward, it just copies the same AAA formula of Western games and shoehorns it sloppily into a Japanese design sensibility. Long after everyone is talking about Open World Fatigue/Ubisoft Syndrome FF decides to jump on the bandwagon by giving us something every other game is giving us. Hooray? Different for FF is not necessarily different for video games.

Personally, I don't really turn to JRPGs for Western design tropes.

What you perceive as "western" about XV is its sense of scale and heavy application of technology. But to any actual western RPG player, XV is still very obviously a JRPG. You'd be hard pressed to find a review of the game that isn't still making the same boy band jokes from Versus XIII's era. XV's gameplay is just as unique now compared to current WRPGs as it was back during the PSX era. Yes, the game has cars, quest markers, large maps and dialogue choices. But it also has extravagant visual effects, warpstriking, aerial combat, summons, gag encounters, ridiculous hairstyles...you know, the type of over-the-top exaggeration that got most people into JP games in the first place.

Say what you will about its direction...but there isn't anything standard, normal or common about Final Fantasy XV. There is no shortage of reviews or previews of XV that don't mention the game's "heart" or confidence in its unorthodox direction.

What XV does add to the formula is a worse version of what SE has already given us in Kingdom Hearts. I personally found controlling the camera to be more challenging than any of the fights. Story-wise, the game is an impenetrable disaster. The graphics are pretty. They will age, too. Then what?

Well, you can say that of any game, i don't see how it's a special case for FFXV. FFXV's achievements (for Final Fantasy as a series) potentially go way beyond FFXV itself. The team is experimenting with expanding the series in directions it was unable to travel in before XV came along with its new direction. Whether you want to call it "western" or "directionless" or whatever is just subjective to you. But on paper, it's very easy to see how XV is a good thing for the series.

The way I see it?...Square Enix has been pursuing "Advent Children: The Game" forever now. They've even admitted this on multiple occasions. And XV is the first and only time since that goal was mentioned that it has become a feasible reality, in visuals, scale and gameplay. XVI can either continue in the same direction as XV, using it as a learning experience, and deliver something truly spectacular...or Square can succumb to the nostalgic fans and start backpedaling again.

Luckly (for me), Square has made it clear on many occasions recently that they have no intention of backpedaling just for the sake of nostalgia, tradition, or whiny fans. If they did, XV would have been a very different title. Final Fantasy has never been that type of series, and i'm still an FF fan because it refuses to be.
 
Late to this thread. But honestly I doubt they would have really ended FF even if XV bombed. Like what, would they really cancel development on FF7 remake? Fuck no, of course not.

If XV and 7R bombed though, I could see it happening then.
 

ryechu

Member
It was in danger because of what they did to it. It'll still be in danger if they fall into their old development habits of spending 4 years making engines, assets, characters and stories without a finalized gameplay concept pinning it together.
 
Glad to know it was successful enough to not kill the franchise. I still hold fondness for final fantasy regardless of its PS3 lineup. Ffxv was a good entry and gives me high hopes that ff16 will get a better balance of story and gameplay.
 

Mcdohl

Member
Confused, the brand was in danger regardless of FF7R?

I feel like FF7R has a much higher chance of bringing the series back to glory than XV ever did.
 

theofficefan99

Junior Member
Okay, two things.

1. Wow, I didn't know SE was that insecure with the brand. But I'm very happy that the game performed much better than expected as a Final Fantasy fan.

2. Tabata isn't the "savior of FF"... please. If anything FFXV got its sales due to hype from footage that ended up not being in the final product (aka anything before Uncovered, plus Omen), it being a Final Fantasy title, plus it being non-linear and an ARPG, something that he didn't actually come up with. Yeah, he managed to release a game with Noctis and co. included. But that's about it. I really cannot give him more credit than that.
 

kswiston

Member
Back in the PS1 days, a new Final Fantasy would have been in competition for first spot. Now it can't even crack the top 10. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Haha.

On a slightly more serious note, using Gamerankings (better PS1 and early PS2 data) and limiting entries to games that had at least 20 reviews (10 for games released before 2000), here is where each Final Fantasy game landed on the list of best reviewed games in its year of release (multiplats counted separately).

Final Fantasy VII - #3
Final Fantasy VIII - #16
Final Fantasy IX - #10
Final Fantasy X - #12
Final Fantasy X-2 - #75
Final Fantasy XI - #150
Final Fantasy XII - #9
Final Fantasy XIII - #87
Final Fantasy XIII-2 - #130
Lightning Returns - #190
Final Fantasy XIV (PS4) - #30
Final Fantasy XV - #75


There aren't really enough reviews to do the SNES games.
 
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