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GameInformer Oct WiiU Info (NSMBU/NintendoLand) [Don't Post Scans, Even Digital Ones]

Z

zroid

Banned
I love SMW's sprites (so charming!), but yeah, everything else really hasn't aged that well.

In that regard, I think NSMBU looks absolutely great. It's the character models, if nothing else, that are still lacking.
 
L

Lord_Byron28

Member
Tathanen said:
I'm most interested in that Boost Rush screenshot. It looks like Boost Rush is basically "speed-run mode," with the score missing and that called-out timer. I wonder what that mysterious red bar beneath the coin total is. And I bet those Miis are only there because it's the special mode, they're probably not there normally. It's probably a Miiverse thing, them cheering you on for the high score you're about to post to the network.

Sounds PRETTY GREAT to me, I love the idea of Miiverse speedrunning.
Click to expand...
I think it may be a meter to gauge your speed. However, it'd only make sense for the squirrel suit and there's been pictures of it shown without it.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
orioto said:
ha come on, i didn't want to go in that war again but let's go, i'll try.. cause it's pretty hard to explain after all.

Take that from Mario world.

super-mario-world-rev-big.gif


it's, indeed, not varied at all and repetitive in the patterns. BUT,weirdly, it works. Cause the art direction is strong and the minimalistic style + color palette makes it just natural as it is.
Where in some of that screens, particularly the one with the big geometric mountain behind, it just looks like a messy copy and paste all over the place!

Big difference is that Mario World doesn't try to be realistic or detailed. It's iconic and symbolic, maybe even abstract and design, and it's perfectly handled. Now NMB is more detailed and in the same time less natural. Everything is at its right place in Mario World, when things look random and messy in NMB.
Click to expand...

UizwP.jpg

iBouE.jpg


When I was looking for images for this comparison, I stumbled across a website that has full level maps from SMB3 and SMW:

http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_game_maps/super_mario_world_levels/
http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_game_maps/super_mario_bros_3_maps/

and I realized that even my memory of SMW made the levels more complex than they actually are. NSMBWii and NSMB2's levels are more complex than SMW's in general. Nostalgia is really hurting these games. This whole hatred of NSMB level design makes no sense at all.
 
S

Silent_Ocarina

Member
RagnarokX said:
When I was looking for images for this comparison, I stumbled across a website that has full level maps from SMB3 and SMW:

http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_game_maps/super_mario_world_levels/
http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_game_maps/super_mario_bros_3_maps/

and I realized that even my memory of SMW made the levels more complex than they actually are. NSMBWii and NSMB2's levels are more complex than SMW's in general. Nostalgia is really hurting these games. This whole hatred of NSMB level design makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links. I think the level design in New Super Mario Bros. U will be top-notch. I just like the faster paced physics of the older games more. After seeing those maps, though, I'm actually seeing secrets I missed after all these years.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
RagnarokX said:
UizwP.jpg

iBouE.jpg


When I was looking for images for this comparison, I stumbled across a website that has full level maps from SMB3 and SMW:

http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_game_maps/super_mario_world_levels/
http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_game_maps/super_mario_bros_3_maps/

and I realized that even my memory of SMW made the levels more complex than they actually are. NSMBWii and NSMB2's levels are more complex than SMW's in general. Nostalgia is really hurting these games. This whole hatred of NSMB level design makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

I've argued this before and nostalgia is a heavy factor in how people view the level design of SMB3 and SMW. There is very little complexity involved in the levels and honestly with a save system the same as current NSMBW they wouldn't be any harder either. NSMBW especially in the later levels has the most complex 2d design of the series.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
god, those backgrounds really are lovely.

I don't have a fucking clue what the people in that locked scan thread were seeing.
 
T

TheNatural

My Member!
metalslimer said:
I've argued this before and nostalgia is a heavy factor in how people view the level design of SMB3 and SMW. There is very little complexity involved in the levels and honestly with a save system the same as current NSMBW they wouldn't be any harder either. NSMBW especially in the later levels has the most complex 2d design of the series.
Click to expand...

That's bullshit, I'm sorry.

SMB 3 for example has a variety of level design where the goal isn't to survive a obstacle course with wide open areas like NSMB Wii for example - but to actually FIGURE OUT the level.

For example, in World 6 there's a level where you go through the pipe to an underground ice level where beetles are throwing ice blocks at you in the whole course of the level, when you get to the end all you have is a pipe that leads you to a power up and loops you back into the level. As it turns out, you're supposed to clear takeoff area with raccoon Mario, stomp a koopa before a beetle hits it (or you) with an ice block, take off with the koopa and fly up above to an area where pirhana plants are blocking a pipe with blocks in between them and throw the koopa in between the blocks before it wakes up to take them out.

Little things like that make SMB 3 superior level design than NSMB Wii IMO. NSMB Wii is basically, get through the level, and with the wide open spaces intentionally designed for multiplayer, it isn't too difficult. But oh, if you do want to make it harder, here's some coins and optional waggle stuff to do, that really doesn't have much to do with making the level harder, we just put it in for you.

Things like perfecting certain jumps, like in World 5 before the battleship where you had a scrolling platform level and fire shooting cannonball things trying to take you out at the same time adds a lot of tension and precision to the game. There's dozens of other example of these moments in the game.

I never felt that in NSMB Wii. I felt it was difficult at times, but not because of some ingenious level design, but because all it was, was a long obstacle course, many things relied on imprecise waggle maneuvers, and the game was made artificially more difficult by placement of optional coin collecting.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
metalslimer said:
I've argued this before and nostalgia is a heavy factor in how people view the level design of SMB3 and SMW. There is very little complexity involved in the levels and honestly with a save system the same as current NSMBW they wouldn't be any harder either. NSMBW especially in the later levels has the most complex 2d design of the series.
Click to expand...

i wonder how true this is, as you said though with nostalgia its hard for me to say. a side-by-side comparison like these shots imply, done in a thread a month after this game drops - that'd be pretty interesting.
 
J

JoeInky

Member
TheNatural said:
That's bullshit, I'm sorry.

SMB 3 for example has a variety of level design where the goal isn't to survive a obstacle course with wide open areas like NSMB Wii for example - but to actually FIGURE OUT the level.

For example, in World 6 there's a level where you go through the pipe to an underground ice level where beetles are throwing ice blocks at you in the whole course of the level, when you get to the end all you have is a pipe that leads you to a power up and loops you back into the level. As it turns out, you're supposed to clear takeoff area with raccoon Mario, stomp a koopa before a beetle hits it (or you) with an ice block, take off with the koopa and fly up above to an area where pirhana plants are blocking a pipe with blocks in between them and throw the koopa in between the blocks before it wakes up to take them out.
Click to expand...

That's the fucking only level in the game that's like that, and it's easily one of the worst levels in SMB3. Yeah, they were all obstacle courses bar one badly designed level, nice variety.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
IrishNinja said:
i wonder how true this is, as you said though with nostalgia its hard for me to say. a side-by-side comparison like these shots imply, done in a thread a month after this game drops - that'd be pretty interesting.
Click to expand...

I wish we had maps of NSMBWii and NSMB2, but having played these games more recently and looking at videos and comparing them to the maps of SMW, I can definitely say the people excited about "a return to SMW complexity" have unrealistic memories of SMW.

TheNatural said:
That's bullshit, I'm sorry.

SMB 3 for example has a variety of level design where the goal isn't to survive a obstacle course with wide open areas like NSMB Wii for example - but to actually FIGURE OUT the level.

For example, in World 6 there's a level where you go through the pipe to an underground ice level where beetles are throwing ice blocks at you in the whole course of the level, when you get to the end all you have is a pipe that leads you to a power up and loops you back into the level. As it turns out, you're supposed to clear takeoff area with raccoon Mario, stomp a koopa before a beetle hits it (or you) with an ice block, take off with the koopa and fly up above to an area where pirhana plants are blocking a pipe with blocks in between them and throw the koopa in between the blocks before it wakes up to take them out.

Little things like that make SMB 3 superior level design than NSMB Wii IMO. NSMB Wii is basically, get through the level, and with the wide open spaces intentionally designed for multiplayer, it isn't too difficult. But oh, if you do want to make it harder, here's some coins and optional waggle stuff to do, that really doesn't have much to do with making the level harder, we just put it in for you.

Things like perfecting certain jumps, like in World 5 before the battleship where you had a scrolling platform level and fire shooting cannonball things trying to take you out at the same time adds a lot of tension and precision to the game. There's dozens of other example of these moments in the game.

I never felt that in NSMB Wii. I felt it was difficult at times, but not because of some ingenious level design, but because all it was, was a long obstacle course, many things relied on imprecise waggle maneuvers, and the game was made artificially more difficult by placement of optional coin collecting.
Click to expand...
You picked like the only level in the whole game that does anything remotely like that. As awesome as it is, SMB3 had some awful level design decisions like those levels where you had to guess which doors to go through; like 7-Fort and 8-Fort.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
SMB3 and SMW are both excellent games, but some of y'all are making it out like they're elaborate Dracula's Castle-like mazes and NSMB is just hold right to win game. The level design in NSMB isn't any less original or repetitive than the NES series.
 
M

Model 500

Member
Practising speed runs is where you start to appreciate the amazing quality of level design in side scrolling mario games. From my pow, NSMB Wii is most fun in multiplayer, but most challenging and rewarding in speed runs.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
RagnarokX said:
When I was looking for images for this comparison, I stumbled across a website that has full level maps from SMB3 and SMW:

and I realized that even my memory of SMW made the levels more complex than they actually are. NSMBWii and NSMB2's levels are more complex than SMW's in general. Nostalgia is really hurting these games. This whole hatred of NSMB level design makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

I feel like in general, the level design in NSMB Wii at least surpasses many of the levels in SMB3 and World. However, I feel like the older games handled secrets a lot better (particularly World.) Secret exits, secret paths, two secret areas... It made playing it feel as if the game was always keeping something from you, like you never knew if you really completed the game or if it could still yield more secrets. Hell, it wasn't until a few years ago I even knew about Soda Lake (due to the ridiculous way you have to unlock it.) Whereas today, I know exactly when I've seen everything in a New series game.

Nostalgia adds to this of course, particularly the actual feeling of mysteriousness and a larger world than I can comprehend when what's actually there is much smaller, but the point still stands that the games hid their secrets better, had more of them, and had better secrets to boot, which made exploring the game and investing a lot of time into it worthwhile.

Of course, nowadays if you can't find something, you look it up online in five minutes, so I guess maybe that isn't worth it? Even still, I think it is. I'm hoping NSMB U provides that feeling of "a bigger world" that I haven't felt in a 2D Mario since Yoshi's Island.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Andrex said:
I feel like in general, the level design in NSMB Wii at least surpasses many of the levels in SMB3 and World. However, I feel like the older games handled secrets a lot better (particularly World.) Secret exits, secret paths, two secret areas... It made playing it feel as if the game was always keeping something from you, like you never knew if you really completed the game or if it could still yield more secrets. Hell, it wasn't until a few years ago I even knew about Soda Lake (due to the ridiculous way you have to unlock it.) Whereas today, I know exactly when I've seen everything in a New series game.

Nostalgia adds to this of course, particularly the actual feeling of mysteriousness and a larger world than I can comprehend when what's actually there is much smaller, but the point still stands that the games hid their secrets better, had more of them, and had better secrets to boot, which made exploring the game and investing a lot of time into it worthwhile.

Of course, nowadays if you can't find something, you look it up online in five minutes, so I guess maybe that isn't worth it? Even still, I think it is. I'm hoping NSMB U provides that feeling of "a bigger world" that I haven't felt in a 2D Mario since Yoshi's Island.
Click to expand...

See, while I love SMW's map design, to me SMW always felt hollow compared to SMB3. Looking at these maps, I realize that it's in part because SMW's level design is actually LESS complex than SMB3's. Plus SMW is a much easier game. It has secrets, yeah, but when the levels themselves aren't really all that great...

Besides, how is how NSMBWii handles secrets any different, really? When you get a secret exit in NSMBWii you get awesomeness like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJqXSlsnVHQ#t=2m10s

You get to skip from 8-2 to 8-airship through 8-7, even skipping a fort, and 8-7 is an amazing level. NSMB2's map design was a regression, but NSMBWii's map pretty much does what SMW did.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
RagnarokX said:
See, while I love SMW's map design, to me SMW always felt hollow compared to SMB3. Looking at these maps, I realize that it's in part because SMW's level design is actually LESS complex than SMB3's. Plus SMW is a much easier game. It has secrets, yeah, but when the levels themselves aren't really all that great...

Besides, how is how NSMBWii handles secrets any different, really? When you get a secret exit in NSMBWii you get awesomeness like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJqXSlsnVHQ#t=2m10s

You get to skip from 8-2 to 8-airship through 8-7, even skipping a fort, and 8-7 is an amazing level. NSMB2's map design was a regression, but NSMBWii's map pretty much does what SMW did.
Click to expand...

It was similar which I appreciated, but because every world wasn't integrated, it didn't feel like you were really making that much progress by taking a secret exit. Remember in World when you got to that one-off ice level overlooking the Valley of Bowser?

rWuxp.png


That's the kind of cool thing I miss.

As for SMB3's levels, I really don't hold them in that high regard. They're a little too bite-sized for my tastes, and I disagree that they're more complex than World's.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Andrex said:
Remember in World when you got to that one-off ice level overlooking the Valley of Bowser?

rWuxp.png


That's the kind of cool thing I miss.
Click to expand...
It was an ice level because it was actually much higher up... huh... I wonder if child Socreges ever noted that detail.

The more that NSMBU separates itself from NSMB2, the more I'm excited about it. Looking at the actual gameplay scans, though, it does still look basically the same.
 
T

The_Lump

Banned
Nibel said:
Saw the screenshots

Super Mario World 2 is alive
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. After reading GI, colour me officially hyped for NSMB2 (Edit: NSMBU!)

Also, Nintendoland is starting to seem like a worthwile standalone game to me. Which is good because I'm now fairly sure it will be.
 
N

Nibel

Member
The_Lump said:
My thoughts exactly. After reading GI, colour me officially hyped for NSMB2.

Also, Nintendoland is starting to seem like a worthwile standalone game to me. Which is good because I'm now fairly sure it will be.
Click to expand...

Yup, the Nintendoland games seem to be a lot more complex than the ones from Wii ____ titles.

Metroid looks like it could be a bunch of fun.

And I have to repeat myself: NSMBU looks great. The lighting looks fantastic and it's difficult to not get a SMW vibe from the screenshots. Looks way better than prior NSMB games, no discussion needed.
 
S

ScreenSplitter

Member
I know it isn't exactly cutting edge, but wow does NSMBU look pretty. The art style might be clean cut, but it just looks so good.

I love how 2P in Metroid Blast is wearing the Fusion suit!
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Can we be honest here? 97% of the hype for NSMBU is because of the high-res backgrounds, some of which look vaguely like Mario World and shit.
 
A

abstract alien

Member
I'm hyped because Mario is always great, polished as hell, and has some of the best mechanics and level designs ever in gaming. Plus I like the art and whimsical-ness of it all.

That's just me though. One of the few franchises that actually produces nearly timeless iterations.
 
B

BowieZ

Banned
My mantra: at the end of the day I'm looking forward to the next gen of Mario titles with an overhaul of gameplay ideas and aesthetics and music, but these games in their own right are still fun and will one day be looked upon with nostalgia so we might as well enjoy them while Nintendo is pursuing the mass market/if its not broke/nostalgia approach.
 
T

The_Lump

Banned
Nibel said:
Yup, the Nintendoland games seem to be a lot more complex than the ones from Wii ____ titles.

Metroid looks like it could be a bunch of fun.

And I have to repeat myself: NSMBU looks great. The lighting looks fantastic and it's difficult to not get a SMW vibe from the screenshots. Looks way better than prior NSMB games, no discussion needed.
Click to expand...

Agreed again. You are wise. Now all it needs is the Donut Plains theme tune on the world map screen and I'll be in heaven.


BocoDragon said:
Can we be honest here? 97% of the hype for NSMBU is because of the high-res backgrounds, some of which look vaguely like Mario World and shit.
Click to expand...

Can't speak for everyone, but I'm mostly hyped because I love 2D Mario games full stop and this one looks awesome. The fact that it slightly resembles one of my all time favourite games (smw) is just a huge bonus.
 
G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
BocoDragon said:
Can we be honest here? 97% of the hype for NSMBU is because of the high-res backgrounds, some of which look vaguely like Mario World and shit.
Click to expand...
I'm more hyped for the map system with branching paths, although it will be nice to get an HD Mario game after the glaring jaggies that have marred the visuals for a while now. Also, although I am not yet super hyped for NSMB U, what hype I do have is based much more on NSMB2's great level design than anything else. I'm hoping the competition between the NSMB2 team and NSMB U team leads to both being better overall products. It feels like they're loosening up a little bit now. There was a certain rigid formality to NSMB and to a lesser extent NSMB Wii that felt off imo. Here's hoping the Wii U version is feels as natural as its 3DS counterpart.
 
D

Dr.Hadji

Member
metalslimer said:
I've argued this before and nostalgia is a heavy factor in how people view the level design of SMB3 and SMW. There is very little complexity involved in the levels and honestly with a save system the same as current NSMBW they wouldn't be any harder either. NSMBW especially in the later levels has the most complex 2d design of the series.
Click to expand...

These threads have got to make you realize by now that a lot of what people talk about isn't level design when comparing old games to new. They just talk about general feelings and impact and blah blah blah. Whats more, I think comparing 70+ levels from one game to another is way to difficult for anyone just to do causally in their heads.
 
A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
I have one question:

Balloon Trip Breeze:
Quote:
Similar to Balloon Fight
Players guide floating Miss through side-scrolling levels filled with obstacles like electric spikes, crazy birds, and hungry fish.
Use stylus to draw gusts of wind to direct the Mii
Goal is to fly as far as you can.
TV shows complete view of the field, GamePad shows zoomed in for precise dodging.
Nintendo hopes the game breeds competition through Miiverse


Am I the only one imagining it similar to Yoshi Touch&Go?
Plus, I'm liking the gamepad integration also in this game.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
BocoDragon said:
Can we be honest here? 97% of the hype for NSMBU is because of the high-res backgrounds, some of which look vaguely like Mario World and shit.
Click to expand...

I'm hyped because the last two NSMB games have been great. I just think it's silly that people are knocking NSMB level design and lauding SMW's.

Dr.Hadji said:
These threads have got to make you realize by now that a lot of what people talk about isn't level design when comparing old games to new. They just talk about general feelings and impact and blah blah blah. Whats more, I think comparing 70+ levels from one game to another is way to difficult for anyone just to do causally in their heads.
Click to expand...

Yes; it's nostalgia. It's something that has nothing to do with the games themselves and can't be replicated because it's a feeling they had when they were kids. Showing people level maps and getting them to think objectively can pull back the veil of nostalgia, though. It's not just making them have overly-positive memories of the past, but hampering their ability to enjoy the new games as well.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Dr.Hadji said:
These threads have got to make you realize by now that a lot of what people talk about isn't level design when comparing old games to new. They just talk about general feelings and impact and blah blah blah. Whats more, I think comparing 70+ levels from one game to another is way to difficult for anyone just to do causally in their heads.
Click to expand...

Truth Bob-ombs.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Nibel said:
Nintendo has officially published the screenshots

I think it's save to post them now, right Niro? Eaty?
Click to expand...

I'm seeing the screens on an "official" Nintendo website, but they're definitely from the same online GI issue. It even has the page select dots at the bottom of some of the images.
 
M

Madn

Member
RagnarokX said:
You picked like the only level in the whole game that does anything remotely like that. As awesome as it is, SMB3 had some awful level design decisions like those levels where you had to guess which doors to go through; like 7-Fort and 8-Fort.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm the only one that loved those levels
 
D

daakusedo

Member
It looks even better when put side by side with mario world.
Interesting look, going for wild environments like world and with the added design rigor of mario bros 3 and nsmb.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Had a look at the scans, I like it.

The outside ones are a bit messy, but the gallons of parallax will probably make it work. Underground and castle ones look nice. I still find the NSMB style a bit sterile, but it seems a bit warmer and more interesting than before.

If NSMBU really makes use of the map, and is stuffed with secrets, I have a feeling it's going to be a great game. What it needs more than anything is surprises, so stuff it with secrets.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
BocoDragon said:
Can we be honest here? 97% of the hype for NSMBU is because of the high-res backgrounds, some of which look vaguely like Mario World and shit.
Click to expand...

A big chunk of it, yeah, but I don't need to get "hyped" for the level design, because I was entirely satisfied with NSMBW and NSMB2 in that regard.

Pretty the game up and give me a nice world map to explore and frankly I can't really ask for much more in a 2D Mario game. I don't know if it'll be better than my favourites or anything, but it certainly has all the ingredients in place.
 
E

ekim

Member
Someone ordered the digital subscription at gamestop.com? I got a shipment mail but no mail with a link to the gameinformer issue or something similar. :(
 
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