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Germany:Demand for PS4 is x6 higher than for the second most popular console the WiiU

Truespeed

Member
I think the Xbox One tried too hard at being an all-in-one media center. Or in the words of MS, a watercooler.

They should of stuck with their fans where they started...but corporate greed got the best of 'em.

They forgot they were building a video game system and instead turned out a compromised media box designed by management. The only way they're ever to to recover is to price it significantly below the PS4. It's a $299 system. Or they can just release a more powerful system that's on par with the PS4 and just give their early adopters a few digital codes for their troubles.
 

FeiRR

Banned
How about Poland? It definitely seems like the black sheep of the EU, but there are a bunch of people there.

Sony announced 500k PS3 consoles sold in 2012 and it still sells a lot as it's dirt cheap now, just like the games. It may not sound a lot but 98% gamers here play on PC and consoles are still gaining popularity. X360 was (or is) a bit popular among teenagers because of Kinect and, sadly, among students because you can mod it and steal games. When I wanted to buy a used 360, I had to spend some time looking for one which wasn't modded. Fortunately more and more people just buy games. I think it comes more with the increase of wealth in the society than anything else.

Nintendo consoles are for the really hardcore fans, even Wii wasn't quite popular here. Nintendo is to be blamed mostly, I think. They didn't support our country in any way and, as a lot of Ninty games should appeal to children and family, lack of localization hurt their potential sales a lot. The distributor (a toy company) also had incredible prizes for N games, usually higher than the other two consoles. Wii U is pretty much dead, too. Official reports say they sold 950 units. It may sound harsh but when i wanted one, I had to search auctions and small shops because no chain stores sell them so the official data is surely far underestimated. Now there's a new distributor which seems to care. They finally opened a localized webpage and started PR with props and contests. I got my free game with Mario Kart 8 and now I can finally feel like a customer. Still no Wii Us in chain shops. I hope it changes. I know a lot of people who would buy a Wii U for a reasonable price with games localized for children. Maybe one day...

PS4 was hugely demanded at launch, which surprised me a bit because the equivalent of $600 we pay here (about €420) for it is roughly what a decent physical job in a medium-sized town gives you a month. Still preorders cleared all stock at launch and you couldn't buy it for weeks. Then some shops started offering it for a prize of almost €500. I don't think many people were interested. Last 2-3 months the prices returned to the launch level or are even lower (I saw solos sold for €350). But PS4 still has a long way ahead here. The initial price of the console is one thing but prices of games are a real stopper. All PS4 games have this "next gen tax" on them. While you can usually buy a new PS3 game for quite less than 200 PLN (€48), new PS4 games go to 249 or even higher (but I noticed it started improving just now). Besides, as most people have PCs anyway, they will wait for exclusives as PC games are much cheaper in retail. Interestingly, Steam games are not, we have the same prices as Western Europe and have to pay in € which makes it even worse. Lord Gaben doesn't care about us, even though Poland is the biggest Eastern Europe market for Steam, excluding Russia of course.

As for X1, nobody cares. I saw plenty of them on auctions, in shops (but not electronic chain shops, those are waiting for the official launch). The price is high, the media capabilities obsolete - everybody has a media box or smart TV which does the same. I don't know anybody who has bought X1 or wants to buy one. Of course there must be several hundred people who did and some will at the official launch but that's about it for now. Microsoft doesn't have good PR here. We're forced to use Windows everywhere, from schools to offices and most people hate it. XBL was officially missing for 5 years since the launch of X360 until our gamers made a big action and forced Microsoft to put labels on X360 boxes saying "networking capabilities unavailable in Poland". Then they launched XBL but now it's not available again for X1. On the other hand, Sony localizes all their games, even PSN titles and we have a local PS Store with all the convenience. And the Sony brand is very highly regarded in general. Sony TVs, cameras, stereos and such sell a lot, even though they are pricey. But we generally like quality products which last long and don't look at the price so much. Most people buy expensive equipment on credit anyway so it doesn't matter.

TL;DR: we're very similar to Germany, with the exception of Nintendo missing mostly and PCs even more popular. I think the console ratio this gen will be something like 80:10:10 for Sony:Microsoft:Nintendo, respectively.
 

Flintty

Member
Oh no I'd better trade in my X1 before devs cotton on that it's dead and stop making games!!! /s

Jesus Christ almighty, the figures are impressive (I'm actually glad Wii U is doing well there, it's a great machine) but it's not a sign that the X1 is 'dead in Europe'.

How long before people realise that X1 isn't a failure, it's just not selling as much as the competition.
 
How long before people realise that X1 isn't a failure, it's just not selling as much as the competition.

Products that doesn't hit the company's intended projections/milestones are failures.

The next iPhone/iPad could easily outsell any single competitor SKU and still be a failure if it doesn't meet the company expectations.

How well they do ( from the public perception ) has nothing to do with whether or not a product is considered successful/failure.
 
I'm overjoyed to see that the Wii U has still some life left in it, at least in Europe <3

How long before people realise that X1 isn't a failure, it's just not selling as much as the competition.

The Dreamcast has been a resounding success.
Yep, you are right, it works.
 
Oh no I'd better trade in my X1 before devs cotton on that it's dead and stop making games!!! /s

Jesus Christ almighty, the figures are impressive (I'm actually glad Wii U is doing well there, it's a great machine) but it's not a sign that the X1 is 'dead in Europe'.

How long before people realise that X1 isn't a failure, it's just not selling as much as the competition.
There is no need to be upset.
 
A much cheaper console selling more than a 400-500(+)€ console during its first year isn't all that ouch-worthy.

Let's be real here, new tech should be in higher demand than old tech. This is saying that people think "I want a 360," more than "I want an Xbone," that's a HUGE problem.
 

Flintty

Member
LLet's be real here, new tech should be in higher demand than old tech. This is saying that people think "I want a 360," more than "I want an Xbone," that's a HUGE problem.

Indeed it is and that is something which needs to be fixed by MS. I'd like to know the reasons behind it. Is it price? Image? Combination of both?
 
Ok, I stand corrected. Xbox One is going the way of the Dreamcast...

First off, learn to not read things literally. We're in the internet, there's a lot of hyperbole. Just because I write stuff like "fuck you" doesn't mean I want to do it or that I actually feel such an intense hate of you that I use such a slur.

And your sarcasm isn't helping, because your choice of language prompted the response, which by no means has a literal correlation, because what you said can easily be applied to any product that 'doesn't do better than the competition.'

Indeed it is and that is something which needs to be fixed by MS. I'd like to know the reasons behind it. Is it price? Image? Combination of both?

A lot of factors, really. Sometimes these kind of things cannot be attributed to a broad singularity.

As an Asian, I'll share an example. Our community values the 'physicality' of goods and being able to try things out before buying them/perceive things to be more valueble physical rather than digital.

By that factor alone, PS4 will do better (here in Asia) because Sony has stores here where we can actually try out PS4s, whereas Xbox booths are practically non-existent here. Also, because Sony has physical stores here, warranty and customer support are like 10x better than MS's. ( though obviously less true in markets where Xbox is strong )

And that is one of a lot of factors. Localisation, familiarity, perception, there's a lot lot of different factors.
 
Indeed it is and that is something which needs to be fixed by MS. I'd like to know the reasons behind it. Is it price? Image? Combination of both?

My guess is image. The system still hasn't recovered from it's DRM debacle, making the ps4 the main choice for console gamers. My guess is the Wii U is in second place because people are buying them as supplementary consoles.
 

Freeman

Banned
Xbox One just isn't appealing to any country that isn't US/UK and even in those countries it is struggling.

MS is in the console business for about 15 year now and they didn't manage to create a strong structure of internal studios, right now their most important studio(343) has only one single original game in their curriculum and that was the main Halo game with the most lukewarm reception.

Anywhere PC is popular Xbox One will suffer because you can get their "exclusives" on PC most of the time. MS still has no presence in key territories like Japan and that is something that is unlikely to change.

Their strategy of relying on third-party exclusives doesn't work well when they have half the install base of the competition.

Deny all you want and pretend the Xbox One is doing well but if anyone predicted last year that the Xbox One would not pass the WiiU in total units sold by the end of 2014 those people would be laughed at and right now it is something that is very likely to happen.

If we look at only 2014 PS4 is outselling Xbox close to 3:1 and Xbox isn't selling that much more than PS Vita and WiiU globally(probably PS3 as well).

If PS4 has no games as some people say, what does that say about the way its beating Xbox One? What will happen once the game arrive?

September is going to be ugly for MS with PS4's Destiny Bundle and the Sony marketing deal.

Traditionally Sony gets stronger in the long run while MS usually reduces their investment or change focus after the first years.
 

prwxv3

Member
The PS3 started as a failure for the same reasons. I don't see why the Xbone gets to skip that moniker, for the same reasons...

Seriously. The PS3 is and always be a failure. Not only did it not meet sony's expectations it lost them a unbelievable amount of money. The only thing its not a failure in was building momentum for the PS4.

So the Xbone should get the same treatment.
 

Fehyd

Banned
Seriously. The PS3 is and always be a failure. Not only did it not meet sony's expectations it lost them a unbelievable amount of money. The only thing its not a failure in was building momentum for the PS4.

So the Xbone should get the same treatment.

And helping to win the HD format war.
 

Flintty

Member
First off, learn to not read things literally. We're in the internet, there's a lot of hyperbole. Just because I write stuff like "fuck you" doesn't mean I want to do it or that I actually feel such an intense hate of you that I use such a slur.

And your sarcasm isn't helping, because your choice of language prompted the response, which by no means has a literal correlation, because what you said can easily be applied to any product that 'doesn't do better than the competition.'



A lot of factors, really. Sometimes these kind of things cannot be attributed to a broad singularity.

As an Asian, I'll share an example. Our community values the 'physicality' of goods and being able to try things out before buying them/perceive things to be more valueble physical rather than digital.

By that factor alone, PS4 will do better (here in Asia) because Sony has stores here where we can actually try out PS4s, whereas Xbox booths are practically non-existent here. Also, because Sony has physical stores here, warranty and customer support are like 10x better than MS's. ( though obviously less true in markets where Xbox is strong )

And that is one of a lot of factors. Localisation, familiarity, perception, there's a lot lot of different factors.

Fair comments, I may have come across as rather flippant - it was mostly in response to FlyingSaucers equally flippant remark.

I just don't get the 'Doomsday' speak which is frequently accompanied with talk about the Xbox One performance. At the end of the day, yeah the figures could be better but the X1 is here to stay. The quality of games will ensure this.

You provided an interesting insight on how things work in Asia with regards to trying before you buy. There's no doubt that Microsoft really messed up in their initial message and repeated PR blunders (over a year of bad PR mistakes!). This isn't just the Xbox brand though, Microsoft have been doing this for a while now across everything. More of a 'hearts and minds' approach is probably required by MS outside of the US.
 

sphinx

the piano man
If we look at only 2014 PS4 is outselling Xbox close to 3:1 and Xbox isn't selling that much more than PS Vita and WiiU globally(probably PS3 as well).

how do you know this???

I must have missed plenty of sales thread cause I don't remember any reliable info pointing at that.

there is no way, no freaking way, X1 isn't selling substantially more than Vita globally.

I can imagine WiiU fighting for a second place since nintendo is trying to keep it alive with nails and teeth but the Vita is being mostly neglected by everyone, including sony.

WiiU is abysmal but Vita is beyond abysmal.
 
The PS3 started as a failure for the same reasons. I don't see why the Xbone gets to skip that moniker, for the same reasons...

XBO doesn't have enough going for it to be seen as a valuable "second console" by most people. It's too similar to PS4, has no perceivable advantage over PS4 (anymore; software library is very subjective) and simply costs too much as well. At this point the Wii U is a much better 2nd console than XBO.

Also a lot of people keep forgetting, the REAL reason PS3 got better was because 7th gen was abnormally long; 8/9 years vs. the usual 5. The PS3 only began getting serious steam near the end of 2010, but by that point we should have traditionally seen the XBO and enough of PS4/Wii U to know they'd be out by the next year.

We didn't.

So, in that vacuum where one console collapsed (Wii) and the other was losing steam among the core (360), that only left one real option for core gamers who wanted a system to call home, and that was the PS3. Hench, the solid growth in sales in the three years that followed.
 

Freeman

Banned
WiiU is abysmal but Vita is beyond abysmal.

how do you know this???

I must have missed plenty of sales thread cause I don't remember any reliable info pointing at that.

In Japan alone Vita sold more than 800k this year so far. How much has Xbox One sold in the US this year? a little over 1m, 1,5m? That is close enough to me. We have little information of how those systems are doing in Europe. Lets remember that people seem to think of the Vita as a dead platform. How can you be doing well when you are much closer to the dead failed platform than to the leading one?

The excessive focus on NPD seems to create an ilusion that the Xbox One is doing well. WiiU is constantly laughed at meanwhile Xbox can barely beat it.
 

stryke

Member
Fair comments, I may have come across as rather flippant - it was mostly in response to FlyingSaucers equally flippant remark.

I just don't get the 'Doomsday' speak which is frequently accompanied with talk about the Xbox One performance. At the end of the day, yeah the figures could be better but the X1 is here to stay. The quality of games will ensure this.

The response you got was a response you deserve with your strawman and salty remarks. You talk about numbers being impressive and yet you made absolutely no effort to establish by what metrics Xbox figures are "impressive" in Germany. Just the pathetically nebulous "not selling as much as competitor =/= failure".

If you weren't so sensitive, you'd realise the word "dead" is being used figuratively of persistently low sales rather than the discontinuation of a console.
 

Atuin

Member
How does that explain the even larger ratios from other european countries? It's one of the flimsiest excuses i've ever seen.

Wouldn't call it excuse, german security chief calling Kinect a "twisted nightmare" made it to Finnish mainstream news, but Xbone's 180 turn about Kinect and always-online DRM was completely ignored. I can only imagine how big this was in Germany.
 

Asd202

Member
Good long post
I can pretty much confirm everything written in here. Sony's PS brand is recognizable here even by people that never owned any console, Nintendo was and is dead here, Xbone only has a chance of selling decently (this market wise) if it's easily pirated. Anyway all things considered Poland console market is insignificant really compared to other EU countries.
 

Flintty

Member
The response you got was a response you deserve with your strawman and salty remarks. You talk about numbers being impressive and yet you made absolutely no effort to establish by what metrics Xbox figures are "impressive" in Germany. Just the pathetically nebulous "not selling as much as competitor =/= failure".

If you weren't so sensitive, you'd realise the word "dead" is being used figuratively of persistently low sales rather than the discontinuation of a console.

Stwawman and salty remarks? That wasn't the intended nature of my post and I think you are reading it from the wrong perspective.

When I said the numbers were impressive I was referring to the Wii U numbers - they really are impressive - but they do not mean the Xbox One is 'dead in Europe' as repeatedly stated by 'the internet', not only in this thread but in almost every negative Xbox thread.

I'm not overly sensitive about it. It doesn't affect my daily life and it's not like someone is insulting my family. But it does get tiresome. Perhaps if my original post was worded to the following, the confusions would have been avoided?

Those are great numbers for the Wii U. I'm really pleased. It is a great system and deserves success. The bad Xbox numbers however do not indicate that the Xbox is dead though.

I should also mention that the PS4 figures are incredible :)
 

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
but they do not mean the Xbox One is 'dead in Europe' as repeatedly stated by 'the internet', not only in this thread but in almost every negative Xbox thread.

Edward Elizabeth Hitler!
couldn't resist.

So how would you describe the performance of the Xbox one in mainland Europe? Of course it's not "dead", but it's clearly in dire need of some heavy price cutting or some other drastic measures. As others have said, this is a new product being outsold by it's predecessor. No amount of sugar coating can make that seem like a good thing.
 

sub_o

Member
There should be a stupid joke using the word ein.

Xbox Eingeäschert?

Does that work? My German is pretty terrible.
 

Flintty

Member
Edward Elizabeth Hitler!

Lol, gotta love Bottom ;)


So how would you describe the performance of the Xbox one in mainland Europe? Of course it's not "dead", but it's clearly in dire need of some heavy price cutting or some other drastic measures. As others have said, this is a new product being outsold by it's predecessor. No amount of sugar coating can make that seem like a good thing.

Clearly something has gone very wrong and the fact that Xbox 360 is outselling it is dire indeed. It is under performing massively, there is no denying that. Am I concerned about this? Slightly but ultimately, MS on the back foot is a good MS (mostly!). Am I concerned that Xbox One will be the next Dreamcast? Not at all. We are approaching the end of the first year of Xbox One and whilst there has been fuck up after fuck up, I am optimistic that the games will start speaking for themselves. Microsoft just needs to learn to shut the fuck up if they have noting non-embarrassing/incriminating to say!
 

jakncoke

Banned
Oh no I'd better trade in my X1 before devs cotton on that it's dead and stop making games!!! /s

Jesus Christ almighty, the figures are impressive (I'm actually glad Wii U is doing well there, it's a great machine) but it's not a sign that the X1 is 'dead in Europe'.

How long before people realise that X1 isn't a failure, it's just not selling as much as the competition.

Considering this is a Germany sales thread, MS wanted 40% market share in Germany and how Xbone is looking like it'll sell less in Germany than what 360 did which was 2-1 outsold by the PS3 and will end up with less market share than 360. I would say yes you could say the Xbone is a failure in Germany by several definitions, this isnt even touching how Xbone games barely are charting in the top 100 or in some weeks cases none at all.
 

Kyougar

Member
The 360 had 30% marketshare
The target marketshare for the Xbox One was 40%
The XBox One is currently under 15% and is falling.

There is no denying it: it is a disaster! But this is Microsofts own fault really.
- horrible presentation
- neglection of mainland europe in regards to Live Marketplace and all the other functions
- most of their exclusive IP is banned or indexed here because of violence. They dont have the breadth of individual Henres, that sony or PC has.
- Microsoft mindshare in Germany is: Functions and Hardware comes out months or years later then in US. Microsoft is not a global corporation, it is a America first corporation. Everything except Windows and Office comes out later then in the US.
- in cahoots with the NSA: BIG nono in Germany
- Germany is heavily PC Centered, the Xbox was and is the symbol of the death of many Microsoft owned PC IP's How can you take our Cakes and give us bread and water?
 

Pingoreous

Member
Hahahahahahahaha.

No.


Still the best one and I grabbed my PS4 there before people went crazy on the pile:
iyKHR0J2YFvJz.gif

I remember watching the full video of this and one guy was heading to the register when he notice he picked up a PS3 box instead of a PS4. It must have been soul crushing for him.
 
Wouldnt call it dead yet but its on life support.
They need to do something (Price cut or something) before the big Holiday sellers come out.

Can´t see it making a comeback. The general consumer will not pay for two online subscriptions. Gold is the death sentence for it imo. Would be the same for the PS4 if X1 was in the lead. We Germans are quite sensible when it comes to monthly fees, which is why paytv is struggling here ever since. In the end i will buy a X1, if there are some games for me, but even then only at the right price, which is nowhere near 399&#8364;. Watched the X1 announcement and - after catching my breath after all the laughing - i said to my friend "ok, not what we hoped for but 150-199&#8364; will be ok" (sadly without online :/)
 
TL;DR: we're very similar to Germany, with the exception of Nintendo missing mostly and PCs even more popular. I think the console ratio this gen will be something like 80:10:10 for Sony:Microsoft:Nintendo, respectively.

Thank you for the interesting reply.
 
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