MisterXDTV
Member
If the Xbox consoles continue with the current trend of sales, you will get the same scenario anyway, regardless of whether they exit the console market
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Hi-Fi Rush Was a "Break Out Hit" For Xbox, Says Aaron Greenberg
- Thread starter analog_future
- Start date
If the Xbox consoles continue with the current trend of sales, you will get the same scenario anyway, regardless of whether they exit the console market
MisterXDTV
Member
So the game did great according to MS, now it's "but muh numbers!!! 1!". As if MS does owe you any numbers
They don't owe us anything, just like we don't have to believe everything Greenberg says without any data to support it
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Sony were arguably competing with themselves during the PS2 gen, and that system provided another golden age of awesome 1P and 3P software. This notion that Sony "need" Microsoft around to keep them honest and competitive is incorrect. Don't worry, Sony's own shareholders will hold them responsible for not screwing things up, screwing over the fanbase or dropping the ball.
And if they try anything that's anti-competitive, regulators can just take them to court. Companies don't have to acquire others in order to be under regulatory or court scrutiny, after all.
Eh, Grubb doesn't do BS for a $2 trillion corporation. Meanwhile Aaron wants to re-quote VG Chartz when he has actual sales data he could share himself, but does it anyway because he knows how the community will react.
At the very least, they're both equally douche.
So the game did great according to MS, now it's "but muh numbers!!! 1!". As if MS does owe you any numbers
If they're a shareholder, then yes, MS would owe them some numbers.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Can you provide links to these numbers?
https://steamdb.info/app/1817230/charts/
If the highest peak was 6000, I have a really hard time believing your 2 million. Not saying you’re wrong, but can you provide some proof for me to educate myself?
feynoob
Banned
Sorry friend.
The AI is trying to take our place. It's matter of time before it does.
ReBurn
Gold Member
If things go according to expectations, anyway.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
The health of an industry isn't improved when there is only one major player offering the service that everyone wants. If Xbox were to go 3rd party the console industry would be poorer for it, because that means less choice, which generally means less incentive to push boundaries. When AMD was in the dumps we saw Intel sit on their hands with 4 core CPUs generation after generation. There are countless examples of this throughout history so I don't know why this would even be a position I'd need to defend.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I agree we should have a good, strong competitor but Microsoft has absolutely failed to be such. Whether they become third party or continue what they are currently doing, Sony's ego will continue to inflate and they make increasingly worse anti-consumer decisions.
Terrible upper management who can't maintain release dates or manage their own studios, numerous big-name projects being stuck in dev hell for nearly half a decade, constant empty promises of things getting "better" (and never getting better), hiding and pushing DRM, failure to even update the UI for the new generation - They care more about their subscription service than they do their actual platform.
I would love for them to return to the OG Xbox/First half of the 360 era where they actually gave a shit. I miss those days - but ever since then they have made excuse after excuse and this is nothing more than more excuses on their part.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Hate to break it to you, but all businesses that sell something care about “sales.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
I'd rather have a shitty b-tier Xbox and PlayStation than just a PlayStation, and even in their current form at least consumers have a second option in the market.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
We don't even have a "shitty b-tier Xbox". We have an F-Tier Xbox currently. And for the majority of the world, there isn't an option besides PlayStation and Nintendo already.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
The only reason MS doesn't talk about sales is because they aren't winning. During the 360 era, sales were normal talk but as soon as Sony took a big lead with the PS4 then suddenly it became about engagement time. It's all marketing which is why listening to Jim Ryan or Phil Spencer is pointless.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
F-tier? I don't know man, that sounds uncharitable and hyperbolic. It's obvious they are b-tier as what they do fits the bill for a lot of consumers, but its obvious they are not on the same level as Sony when it comes to quality output.
TehGoomba7s
Member
Good god the Twitter replies under his tweet lol. Xbox fanboys are crazy. If it’s coming from Greenberg the game probably bombed, or he’s using users playing the game as a measure for success.
Naked Lunch
Member
All this talk about numbers and sales is beyond dumb.
What has happened to gamers?
Its a good game, one of the better ones in recent years. Im glad it was created and released.
What has happened to gamers?
Its a good game, one of the better ones in recent years. Im glad it was created and released.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Social media was created and we are all far more concerned about the non-gaming aspect of gaming. It's fun to banter and talk about this stuff but sometimes I feel like people forget about playing the games.
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Xbox Exclusive Hi-Fi Rush Hits 2 Million Players - IGN
Hi-Fi Rush has attracted two million players since its January 25 surprise launch according to Bethesda and Tango Gameworks.
PlayStation Plus Extra/Premium exists because of Xbox. Sony allowing crossplay exists because of Xbox. The best PS3 games, including the PSN games, exist because of Xbox. Trophies exist becauseof Xbox.
Competition is good.
Sony customer service has been terrible since the PS4 generation because they know that PlayStation loyalists might complain, but ultimately will just accept it.
Additionally, Microsoft being in the same market allows for consumer choice. I have both a Series X and a PS5; I basically play all third-party games on my Series X, because I'm not a fan of the DualSense (the haptic rumble can be cool, but it doesn't override the sheer comfort of holding a Series controller, and I hate adaptive triggers). But even then, if a third-party game comes out and, for whatever reason, is clearly superior on PlayStation, then I have the choice to purchase that game for that console instead.
To argue that Microsoft should just go third-party is just, as I mentioned earlier, a result of you wanting to play certain Xbox exclusives while also having a misguided bias for Sony. You should instead encourage their competition and then, whether now or later, enjoy the exclusive benefits of both consoles.
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Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Uncharitable? Hardly. Hyperbolic? I can give you that. Either way, it is a far cry from being even a B-Tier platform and it has all the studios, funding, and capability of being an A-Tier platform yet routinely fails to deliver. I *want* to see the Xbox that had a personality. I *want* to see a great alternative to provide excellent competition to make gaming as a whole better. I *want* to see the Xbox that focused on great games instead of trying to find ways to nickel and dime the player. I *want* to see the Xbox that pushed gaming forward with innovative concepts like achievements and rewarded players who put the time and effort into the system with avatars and unique unlockables, not the Xbox that made gaming into a glorified rental service with games that are treated as forgettable and easily disposable.
Xbox as a brand needs to treat the Series X/S as a Wii U moment. Admit they fucked up and fix the problems. Fire Spencer and get someone who can actually MANAGE the studios they buy/have. Focus less on focus testing and finding ways to screw over consumers for short term gain and win back good will.
There should be no reason quality games like Hi-Fi Rush are dropped with zero marketting, used as fodder for a sub service, and used as excuses for their own failures. It does a disservice to the devs who made the game and to the game itself.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
What service is being offered that everybody wants? Games? Sony and 3P are offering plenty of games, it's a big reason sales have been going so well for them. IMO, Xbox focusing on being a multiplat publisher would be a boon because they could reposition the hardware to actually be profitable and fit in a market segment more of their speed (their own Steam Deck, their own Steam Machine).
They wouldn't stop providing Game Pass, would they? Or providing it on Xbox devices, PC? Mobile (through xCloud)? Them going 3P would probably allow them to curate some version of GP for PS and Nintendo platforms, expanding their audience and expanding choice for customers. Sony have pushed a lot of design boundaries with PS5 like the Dualsense controller, that wasn't dependent on any similar controller innovations from Microsoft to exist. Same with PSVR2; Sony didn't make that because they needed an answer to MS's VR..MS has no VR offering of their own and yet PSVR is in its second generation.
Comparing it to Intel vs AMD is misleading because those are two very different markets, so market expectations from customers are very different. PlayStation and Xbox are seen as entertainment brands; Intel and AMD are seen as technology product brands, so the customer bases are not 1:1 the same. There is a lot more pressure on entertainment brands to deliver quality even if they have no real competition in terms of market share, than for other types of brands.
feynoob
Banned
Leaving Sony alone in this industry is the worst thing that will happen to the industry.
Look at their customer support to know how bad that is.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
Cool! You do you bro.
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feynoob
Banned
Wait, do you want MS to exist console business?
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Then MS needs to get their head out of their ass and improve. Not make excuses.
feynoob
Banned
Companies can have bad periods. No one is perfect. Not too long ago that they had a good gen which was OG Xbox and X360.
It's better to have a badly function Xbox rather than a no Xbox.
We might no like it, but that is the best option for gamers. Especially PS fans.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
I'm gonna level with you and you can take this however you want: a lack of choice is not good for consumers and this is widely accepted by the vast majority of people. No words you can say, not in any order, is going to change that. It would be a net negative for the console industry as a whole if there was only one choice for high end hardware, and its very likely it would lead to stagnation and price increases and overall less value for more money, as evidenced historically by every time one company remains, the consumers suffer.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Yeah, I want them to do better as well. They have a lot of games I'd like to play but its taking too long IMO - but even this version of MS is better than having them leave the console space entirely unless we get another company to offer a competitive product.
JerryinSoCal
Member
What metric are we using to describe hit when it comes to gamepass though? it didn't sell well, did any new people sign up to GP just to play it? Greenberg is a lying sack of potatoes too but he's just doing his job. Even the amount of people who tried it doesn't really matter unless they played over a certain length of time. I don't know I just find calling game pass games a hit when they don't even chart in the top 20 in sales kind of strange but what would they really have expected from an AA at best game that had a shadow drop and very little marketing after it came out? I know it got a lot of praise online but that doesn't make it a hit.
Its getting bad for Grubb when Xbox brass calls out an Xbox shill
Grubb keeps saying stupid shit and keeps getting proven wrong yet every podcast he says something else stupid
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
They have had a consistently terrible period for 13 years now. Nintendo has "bad periods". Sony has had "bad periods". They learn and improve from them and they never last more than a single console generation. Microsoft has not done so. This has been going on since the second half of the 360's lifespan. They have only made more and more excuses and pushing anti-consumer practices.
So if the option is for them is either to continue the failure spiral and them going third party? I would rather they go third party.
I want to agree, but currently the only difference between them going third party and them maintaining the status quo is that the few good games they have aren't being played. There is no competition. Its Sony and Nintendo currently. This is even more prevalent in any country that *isn't* the US where Xbox is even more irrelevant.
I just don't see MS cleaning house and having quality management for their studios. I don't see them fixing the drought and poor release schedule for games. I would love to be proven wrong. I want a reason for my 5,000 USD PC and 800 USD Xbox Series X (+ Custom Elite 2 controller) to be used.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Yeah, but that's when Xbox was actually trying. You notice that? Those days are long gone. Also some of those points are wrong. Sony wanted crossplay during PS3 gen but Microsoft were the ones who rejected it; from what I know they were "forced" to accept crossplay on PS4 because of MS doing some sneaky stuff behind-the-scenes, but I need to re-check info on that.
Those PS3 games, trophies...that was all during the 360 gen. Ages ago. And PS+, as it originally existed, arguably inspired Games with Gold, so don't think the influences only go one way.
Personal opinion, and too many variables to account for from customer to customer to claim it is systemic of a problem.
Good for you. But for a lot of other people, the multiplat results consistently pulling out ahead for PS5 means they don't need to entertain a Series X for the chance a 3P game runs better there; statistically speaking they have a high chance it'll run better on PS5 and if that system provides other benefits Series X does not, they save themselves $500 by just getting the PS5.
You also have to understand the amount of people who prefer 3P games on Series X because of the controller is very small, and we can extrapolate that to the wider market data by looking at sales trends.
I have encouraged how they should compete better. But it's clear that Microsoft don't seem to agree with those suggestions. Why haven't they done remakes for Gears 1 & 2 yet? What's taken them so long to make a proper new Banjo-Kazooie game? Why did they sit on Perfect Dark for almost 20 years? Why didn't they court more 3P AAA games for Day 1 into Game Pass in 2022? Why did it take them so long to finally get a 2nd manufacturer for expansion cards? Why couldn't their deal with Sega have netted a few exclusives to rekindle the OG Xbox relationship (like a new Gunvalkyrie or Outrun)? Why didn't they prioritize Series X over Series S stock through the back half of 2021 and through to Fall 2022, to capitalize on when PS5 supply was at its most constrained? Why didn't they ensure Crossfire X was at least decent? Why didn't they ensure games like Hellblade 2 and Avowed were ready for 2021/2022 releases?
Microsoft's new idea of "competition" is to buy up big 3P publishers. If that's what they want to keep doing, if that's what they really think is "competition", then honestly I don't think we need their competition in the market anymore. Again I'm not saying I'm at the point where I want MS to go third-party; it's not even really about what I want, obviously. But again, with RedFall looking like it's going to come in mid, if Starfield similarly underperforms, what hope is there for the rest of their 1P output in terms of quality or support? Why would I want to see them flail and fail to compete with PlayStation for another 4-5 years, when at that point they would be much better off going "3P" (but keeping Xbox hardware around as Windows-powered mini P NUC gaming devices)?
If what's best for the brand and MS at that point would be to go "3P", then so be it. But again, I'm not "wanting" them to go that way. A lot of that does now hinge on how Starfield turns out, though, IMHO.
No, not necessarily. But if things continue at their current trajectory, and if Starfield underperforms (especially critically among gamers), then they will probably be better off not marketing Xbox as a games console, and changing that approach.
Marketing it as a gaming PC NUC device, but with an Xbox console-style UI, that can switch seamlessly between that and regular full Windows mode, and publishing their games in full on PS and Nintendo platforms...would be a much better use of resources than this uphill losing battle they've been waging with Sony for the better part of 20+ years. Plus it'd free them up to focus more on the mobile storefront, which is what they really want to grow, anyway, and that's where I expect their focus to shift anyway within the next 2 years.
feynoob
Banned
The 2nd option is way worse than the first option.
You can fix the first option, but choosing the 2nd option would mean no one will be able to compete with Sony, not even Nintendo would be able to do that.
And what stop Sony from making all those games exclusive to their platform, and cutting down PC after Xbox closes their console business. No one.
IF MS hires a competent leader, that person can change Xbox. All MS needs to do right now, is remove the current leadership. So first option is the best for gamers at this moment.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I can’t believe you have to spend so many posts defending/explaining such a common sense stance. Did people already forget about the launch of the PS3? Or how safe Sony played last gen because they had no real competition?
feynoob
Banned
Sorry dude, but your dream is like monkey paw wish.
It sounds nice at first, but the conquences is way worse than what is happening to Xbox right now.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
I don't have a stake in Sony or MS, stock wise, so the only thing I actually care about is whether or not they both produce games that I want to play and as of right now that answer is yes, they both give me a reason to own their respective consoles. My 2nd most played game all of last gen was Sea of Thieves, with games like Forza Horizon 4 & 5 well within the top 15, Halo Infinite MP was in the top 10, etc. So when people proclaim how bad they are doing as a brand, as someone whose only stake in them is to play their games, I gotta say I'm not a disappointed as many others. I would love for them to do better, but with their support of MP games such as SoT and the value of Game Pass, its not some barren wasteland devoid of content.
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Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Nintendo *does* compete with Sony and MS and they are currently winning. They learned from their utter abject failure of the Wii U. Xbox is basically a non-competitor to Sony/Nintendo already. Them going third party would change literally nothing in its current state.
What does that have to do with what I have said?
IF. IF MS hires a competent leader. IF they fix their shit. Its been 13 years and they have failed to do that. What we *have* seen is that they tried to push DRM yet again, continue to make excuses for their failure to release games, and continue to double and triple down on anti-consumer game design.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I am in a similar state as you. I only care about the games to play from them and so far all I have had has been Grounded, Pentiment, and Hi-Fi Rush. Halo Infinite was an objective failure on all metrics. Horizon 5 was a glorified expansion pack to the worst Horizon game (4). Sea of Thieves is a mediocre GAAS with drip feeding content.
Even if I enjoyed Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite, they are objectively worse versions of previous entries with actively detrimental design to push MTX and FOMO. That isn't acceptable game design. Nintendo has also done this and they are as equally deserving of ire for that cancerous design mentality.
What are your criteria for terrible?
If it's solely first-party output, then you're right.
Personally, however, on the console, controller, customer service, and consumer-friendly programs, I think Xbox have been way ahead of both Sony and Nintendo, since just before the release of the Xbox One X.
The form-factor of the Series' controller is my all-time favorite (since the 360, each iteration has become my new favorite). Xbox One X was the best place for third -party games last Gen and the Series X is seemingly holding that spot for now, especially if you factor in Smart Delivery and Quick Resume. And since I replay older games a lot, the backward compatibility program, is far better than anything Nintendo and Sony are offering, especially if you take into account the resolution and FPS boosts across all three previous generations. Then you have Game Pass, which is a game-changing program that is a huge benefit to gamers, even if you factor in the relative lack of quality and quantity of first-party games.
Exclusives are important, but I don't think the lack of them make Xbox terrible. They still have good, first-pay games. The quantity is just lacking. Like Nintendo during the N64, GameCube, and Wii U years. I wouldn't call any of those consoles terrible, and I wouldn't call the One X or Series X terrible either.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Forza Horizon 4 and 5 were the first Horizon games I played so to me they were 10/10 games, lots of fun, and Halo Infinite was probably more fun in BTB than any other shooter I played in years. SoT, not sure what you mean by drip feeding, I never bought any MTX for the game and skipped seasons when I was burned out, but all in all it was some of the most fun and original content I ever played. I guess that is where the difference between us comes into play. I am not personally worried about how a game sales or how many people are logging in, if the game is fun and brings me joy then it is by all accounts a success in my opinion. And short of Halo Infinite, those games I mentioned have been wildly successful so ideally that means we will continue to see support for them,
feynoob
Banned
Nintendo doesnt compete with Sony, as their system is incapable of running new games, which consumers demand.
For them to compete, they need a system, which can run those games.
Because Xbox exiting console business means no one is going to compete with them. They have FF series timed exclusive, and PC version wont come out until certain period of time.
If Xbox is not there, then they have the ability to make those timed exclusive for those other games.
At least they invested in this gen, unlike Xbox one. That is a postive news, compared to them chasing after TVs and ads. They will at least need some one competent enough, if this investment does yield results.
Spaceman292
Banned
It doesn't fucking matter the game rocks and that's the end of it. Doesn't matter how much it sold.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I don't trust Greenberg in the least but love that he directly went after Grubb
Plus if it was such a hit as he described tell us how they measured that
Gamepass makes an interesting dynamic on what is considered a success.
Captain Toad
Banned
It does though.
Lost Odyssey rocked. It sold terribly.
Lost Odyssey 2 doesn't exist.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
It doesn't matter TO YOU. And have a Snickers bar.
In Cold Blood
Banned
You judge the success of an Xbox game by the amount of port begging, and there was plenty.
Not my type of game, but glad many loved it.
Not my type of game, but glad many loved it.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Foreclosing historic franchises like doom, fallout, elder scrolls, cod, diablo, warcraft and its many spawns, overwatch etc brings 0 value to the market. And don't tell me that "they need to do that to compete", Nintendo has been succesfully competing for decades and before you utter the words bu-bu-but the fanbase I'll remind you the wii-u proved the hardcore nintendo fanbase amounts to less than 15 million consumers and is not viable as a fallback.
The worst of all is that Microsoft has a long history of not giving a fuck about their failed attempts at the consumer market and when they decide to shut down they shut down hard. Nothing remains of the franchises they owned that they shutdown at the end of the 360 era and if push comes to shove, they will just vault forever an enormous chunk of gaming's history.