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[Airola]

First of all, everyone deserves criticism, literally everyone. Saying someone doesn’t deserve criticism, is to say that person is pretty much perfect, which is impossible.

Sure. That's the Christian way to think. I agree with that.
But you know fully well I meant it in the context of this situation.

People have legitimate reasons to criticise her, because going by objective standards/“her body of work” especially when compared to others, pales in comparison. So yes, there’s a reason to question the award and the only plausible conclusion is that politics might be at play. However, even if their criticism is wrong, then provide evidence and arguments showing why it’s wrong, rather than being lazy and just calling everyone sexists. It’s so silly. Critique the food not the chef.

No, your knowledge about her is pretty much based on what Wikipedia says about her. You have zero knowledge of how she does her work and what she actually does in the companies she works in.

And I'm not calling you sexist. I'm not calling you a misogynist. I'm against that kind of "you're a [insert some -ism here] so you are a bad person and your opinions don't count" thinking.
People can say you base your views incorrectly on gender in this instance without having to think you are sexist by default then.

There are people who look at people who work in the industry and give them awards. They have insight about it that is probably far better than what you have. Your main criticism is that this is about political correctness because she is a woman. And you ask others to give proof of why she should be there instead of you giving any better evidence why she shouldn't.

 

[rockyt]

It is so depressing reading people not being able to comprehend what a producer does. I mean, a lot of people never worked in a corporation let alone in a media company (let alone worked!) so they don't know how hierarchy works and how companies are organized but still, you can educate yourself a little bit.

The role of producer is vital in the industry and the fact that Raymond was able to produce huge IPs like Assassin's Creed and Watch Dogs speaks for itself. Assembling teams, looking for talents, overseeing development, managing contractual relationships with contractors and third parties---it's not something everyone can do.



Aya Kyogoku directed the tremendously successful Animal Crossing: New Leaf and has been involved i nthe franchise for over a decade. She also wrote the script for Twilight Princess.

Risa Tabata is a project coordinator and game designer in Nintendo who worked, among others, to Metroid Prime, WarioWare and Chibi Robo.

Here a good list where to start: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3589/women_in_games_the_gamasutra_20.php?print=1

A producer of a small scale company might do that but in most major corporation and entertainment. It is usually the director/leads/lower management that assemble the team for production. HR and directors or agents look for talents. Marketing team, business rep, and lawyers usually handle 3rd party contract. A producer at least in entertainment or major corporation usually set guidelines and make scedule changes for the project. Their a reason why you don't hear about producers in most entertainment business. It's mostly the studios or director who received praises. Sorry trying to keep this short.

 

[Ozymandias013]

good for her

 

[Blood Borne]

Sure. That's the Christian way to think. I agree with that.
But you know fully well I meant it in the context of this situation.



No, your knowledge about her is pretty much based on what Wikipedia says about her. You have zero knowledge of how she does her work and what she actually does in the companies she works in.

And I'm not calling you sexist. I'm not calling you a misogynist. I'm against that kind of "you're a [insert some -ism here] so you are a bad person and your opinions don't count" thinking.
People can say you base your views incorrectly on gender in this instance without having to think you are sexist by default then.

There are people who look at people who work in the industry and give them awards. They have insight about it that is probably far better than what you have. Your main criticism is that this is about political correctness because she is a woman. And you ask others to give proof of why she should be there instead of you giving any better evidence why she shouldn't.

Fair enough, no one knows about her background work. We’re going by what we do know. So what exactly is wrong with someone making conclusions with the data that they have.

Saying that no one should make criticism unless you have super background insights about that person or thing, is a ridiculous standard. It means that only chefs can criticise chefs.

 

[Elios83]

Good for her but honestly I'm with those that think that judging things from the outside it doesn't seem like her efforts have led to results worth of such prize. Her name is still linked with the original Assassin's Creed but that was in 2007.

 

[mckmas8808]

Good for her but honestly I'm with those that think that judging things from the outside it doesn't seem like her efforts have led to results worth of such prize. Her name is still linked with the original Assassin's Creed but that was in 2007.

Do we even know every person that's won this award?

 

[Helios]

Glad for her. Most of the games she helped create are not my cup of tea but it's an award so whatever.
And as for some of the people calling out the hostility in this thread. Shigeru Miyamoto could've gotten that award and people would still argue whether or not he deserves it. I don't know if it's misogyny (though some posters certainly lean towards that) as much as people wanting their favorite to be picked for the award and being unreasonably agresive about it.

 

[Airola]

Fair enough, no one knows about her background work. We’re going by what we do know. So what exactly is wrong with someone making conclusions with the data that they have.

Saying that no one should make criticism unless you have super background insights about that person or thing, is a ridiculous standard. It means that only chefs can criticise chefs.

You can criticise all you want but if it's based on stupid things then I'm going to say it's based on stupid things. I'm doing that in cases when people call out others being sexists or racists for no good reason and I'm doing that in cases where people are doing the opposite thing by calling out PC SJW's for no good reason.

She gets an award. She's a woman. That is a thing that can happen even in the current social climate without it having to be all about some PC agenda. Not saying it can't be about that either, but she's been in the industry for 20 years and there must be a reason why she had been given big role in producing games like Sims Online and Assassin's creed. That was way before the current SJW hysteria so she probably had the skills to get that high in the hierarchy. I personally have zero interest in Sims Online or Assassin's Creed or Watch Dogs and if I could choose to give an award for someone I probably wouldn't even think of the people who have been involved in something like Assassin's Creed. But I think it's a good thing I'm not responsible for that because I couldn't see things objectively especially from a modern gaming perspective because I'm an old fart who enjoys more old than new things.

Currently it's you and the other people here "criticising" her who are making this be about gender more than anyone else.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Glad she's getting recognized. She did a lot to change the industry even though I don't particularly like the games she made anymore. Well deserved.

 

[Cheezeman3000]

You can criticise all you want but if it's based on stupid things then I'm going to say it's based on stupid things. I'm doing that in cases when people call out others being sexists or racists for no good reason and I'm doing that in cases where people are doing the opposite thing by calling out PC SJW's for no good reason.

She gets an award. She's a woman. That is a thing that can happen even in the current social climate without it having to be all about some PC agenda. Not saying it can't be about that either, but she's been in the industry for 20 years and there must be a reason why she had been given big role in producing games like Sims Online and Assassin's creed. That was way before the current SJW hysteria so she probably had the skills to get that high in the hierarchy. I personally have zero interest in Sims Online or Assassin's Creed or Watch Dogs and if I could choose to give an award for someone I probably wouldn't even think of the people who have been involved in something like Assassin's Creed. But I think it's a good thing I'm not responsible for that because I couldn't see things objectively especially from a modern gaming perspective because I'm an old fart who enjoys more old than new things.

Currently it's you and the other people here "criticising" her who are making this be about gender more than anyone else.

We didn't make it about gender. They did. And I quote, again, directly from the press release:

"While the games Jade has helped create have been trailblazing, her contributions as an industry leader have been equally noteworthy: Jade has been a clear voice and important example in making the game business more inclusive. "

I didn't make that up. She was very obviously picked at least partially because of her gender and they admit as such.

 

[Airola]

We didn't make it about gender. They did. And I quote, again, directly from the press release:

"While the games Jade has helped create have been trailblazing, her contributions as an industry leader have been equally noteworthy: Jade has been a clear voice and important example in making the game business more inclusive. "

I didn't make that up. She was very obviously picked at least partially because of her gender and they admit as such.

Yeah, I guess you are right about that. I don't have an issue with this inclusiveness thing being part of the good that has happened to the industry, but to call it "equally noteworthy" goes towards some PR opportunity bullshit. So yeah, I'm gonna step a bit back from what I said about you making this more about gender than them.

 

[Dthomp]

So looking up this award, it seems like this is the third of this award being given out. Richard Garriott in 2017, Todd Howard last year, and Jade this year.

Mr. Yoon seems to have passed away in 2015 and was a co founder of the NY video game critics circle. Worked as an editor in chief of a couple places and made? A kickstarter game it looks like.

 

[zenspider]

The question is does she deserve the criticism?

You have zero idea how important she might've been for the industry. You base it only on assumptions that, apparently, are based on more in her being a woman than in any real issues. You are criticism seems to be about people being too politically correct so that they give an award to her. That means at core you feel her being a woman is the reason she gets the award and you don't like it because of that, while you don't really know how much she has really done for the industry. Your criticism doesn't seem to have any other reasons than you don't like the idea of political correctness and in this case especially because the political correctness is supposedly about women.

Some people base their decisions and opinions in being politically correct. Some base their decisions and opinions in what others think about political correctness. You seem to fall in that latter category. And in my opinion both are stupid views to have.

I guess my issue is - if we have no idea important she might have been for the industry, then why is she getting an award? Every other name on that list, I don't need to even think about why they are being recognized. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not going to accept that she deserves to be recognized for reasons unrecogizable to gaming enthusiasts.

This seems pandering, and that's the issue to me.

Regarding your reply to D dirthead , there are plenty of women in prominent roles - at least as prominent as Jade Raymond - in Japan. They don't make a big deal out of it, and are still behind us highlighting individual talent in development, but if the conversation is really going to that level, it might be worth highlighting some of these women like Tomoko Hiroki (Dragon Ball FighterZ producer), Yurie Hattori (Nintendo), Aya Kyogoku (Nintendo), and Rieko Kodama (artist turned producer at SEGA).

 

[Airola]

I guess my issue is - if we have no idea important she might have been for the industry, then why is she getting an award? Every other name on that list, I don't need to even think about why they are being recognized. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not going to accept that she deserves to be recognized for reasons unrecogizable to gaming enthusiasts.

I couldn't recognize the inventor of Magnavox Odyssey without googling it.
The rest were familiar to me. But yeah, it's obvious though why the Odyssey guy was awarded. You're right on that.

I don't think the winners of this award should be well known to the people in the hobby. I'm pretty sure that most people who play video games don't really even know who Todd Howard is and most don't care to know who he is. One thing that's good with these awards is the way they make people in the industry have recognition. I'm sure when Ken and Roberta Williams got their award in whatever show it was, plenty of people had zero idea who they were but now they learned more about them. I had no idea who Jade Raymond was either but now I know a bit more than before.

This seems pandering, and that's the issue to me.

Regarding your reply to D dirthead , there are plenty of women in prominent roles - at least as prominent as Jade Raymond - in Japan. They don't make a big deal out of it, and are still behind us highlighting individual talent in development, but if the conversation is really going to that level, it might be worth highlighting some of these women like Tomoko Hiroki (Dragon Ball FighterZ producer), Yurie Hattori (Nintendo), Aya Kyogoku (Nintendo), and Rieko Kodama (artist turned producer at SEGA).

Sure, there would be plenty of other people, both men and women, I would give an award way before I would even think about Jade. But that's just me.

In any case it's not as if some lady who's been 4 years in the business and made one Kickstarter game about social themes is getting the award. One can get the award and this time it's her. I don't see this award yet being something as nonsensical as the current Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame award is (now THAT's some bullshit right there and it's not even some "sjw" bullshit but just general bullshit).

 

[makaveli60]

We didn't make it about gender. They did. And I quote, again, directly from the press release:

"While the games Jade has helped create have been trailblazing, her contributions as an industry leader have been equally noteworthy: Jade has been a clear voice and important example in making the game business more inclusive. "

I didn't make that up. She was very obviously picked at least partially because of her gender and they admit as such.

It's ridiculous that most people just ignore your original post and instead just accuse other posters left and right. Please don't go back to old Gaf style. There is the other forum for this kinda bullshit.

 

[Alexios]

What is Jade Raymond is really Peter Molyneux in disguise going after more awards like his British Academy of Film and Television Arts’ Fellowship?

 

[woigemok]

The only developer with 97 meta and above deserved an award