Fallout-with-swords
Banned
Microsoft wants every game they put out to be "games as service" and I feel like Forza has always made the least sense in that format it's essentially an annualized driving game.
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Jim Sterling: Microsoft, You Greedy Wankers! Let's Talk Forza 7...
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Yep. I can almost understand publishers doing it when they're looking to support a game for several years with a one off entry (R6 Siege or Overwatch for example). But in a series where you're releasing a $60 game every year? It really ramps the scumminess right up.
i have been playing the game for 4-5 days and have at no pin felt the need to buy a loot box. I can open up my cars, credits and car tiers just fine. this sounds like people in fear of something that hasn't happened yet.
not what is actually happening, if you play the game you get plenty of in game credits thrown at you to buy cars, move up in tiers and buy loot boxes with those credits if you wish.
it's a game, you don't need to spend any cash on them.
not what is actually happening, if you play the game you get plenty of in game credits thrown at you to buy cars, move up in tiers and buy loot boxes with those credits if you wish.
it's a game, you don't need to spend any cash on them.
Teletraan1
Banned
That rant at the end was so good.
I remember feeling like this was how this was going to go years back. I feared that content was going to be cut to be turned into microtransactions but people just dismissed it with a tinfoil hat comment or thought it was going to be bigger content but as he says in the video this isn't some theoretical debate any longer. We have extensive evidence of features that used to be free unlockables in games (cosmetic items, cheat codes, game modes) now being tied to microtransactions as well as having a negative effect on the balance of the game. If it wasn't insidious enough some of it is now being tied to a chance at acquiring rather than just paying for what you want. This hobby has gone to shit with scummy practices. I am glad that there are a lot of games out currently that don't engage in this trash as I have been able to avoid this but I know the day is going to come where my favorite series is plagued by this garbage and while I am unwavering on this I am going to have to get a new favorite series. But most won't so thanks to everyone involved in supporting/providing shitty practices.
I remember feeling like this was how this was going to go years back. I feared that content was going to be cut to be turned into microtransactions but people just dismissed it with a tinfoil hat comment or thought it was going to be bigger content but as he says in the video this isn't some theoretical debate any longer. We have extensive evidence of features that used to be free unlockables in games (cosmetic items, cheat codes, game modes) now being tied to microtransactions as well as having a negative effect on the balance of the game. If it wasn't insidious enough some of it is now being tied to a chance at acquiring rather than just paying for what you want. This hobby has gone to shit with scummy practices. I am glad that there are a lot of games out currently that don't engage in this trash as I have been able to avoid this but I know the day is going to come where my favorite series is plagued by this garbage and while I am unwavering on this I am going to have to get a new favorite series. But most won't so thanks to everyone involved in supporting/providing shitty practices.
Neuromancer
Member
What's the deal with the face of the guy in the left bottom corner?
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
Nah, just in most high-profile AAA titles. While I entirely agree in principle that they're scummy and hard to justify, I play hundreds of hours a year of games and I don't think I've ever been offered - less bought or opened - a loot box.
I had a pretty close brush with FOBs in MGSV and I might have stopped by the Eververse once in TTK out of curiosity, but neither strictly count.
As games have made the leap to mass market commodity we've seen a split occur between developers/publishers: those in it to make games and those in it to make money.
Microsoft's output in the past few years indicates they're more in the latter camp these days (and when SoT lands with day 1 mtx we can be damn sure), while Sony and Nintendo (for the most part) still seem to be in the former.
I don't see the split changing to be honest and as long as avoid the money makers, you'll be okay.
You are a sample size of 1. It doesn't matter whether you, personally, feel like you need to buy them. The only reason to implement paid loot boxes is because the designers anticipate that a nontrivial number of people will disagree with you and open their wallets. And this invites further design desions to motivate additional purchases.
TyrantGuardian
Member
What does his opinion about Sonic 4 have to do with any of this?
I agree with this. I think that's what they envisioned using the power of the cloud for but it seems like we'll never see that come to fruition, based on how scaled back Crackdown 3 seems to be vs. the original idea.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
If he's not 100% correct, his opinions are all bad.
Sword Of Doom
Member
On point. Thanks Jim
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
It's an MS game though.
Maintenance
Member
The practice is shit no matter the amount of content.
Poor MS, won't somebody think of the poor corporation that outright lied in the description of an item (VIP pass) to the point they had to rewrite the thing before lawyers/lawsuits got into the picture.
wapplew
Member
FIFA and CoD say hello.
Woo-Fu
Banned
I'm not sure I'd call it greed. Not sure anthropomorphosizing giant corporations makes sense in the first place.
If you monetize your GAAS title better than your competition that means you have more money to make the next title, more money to put into content for your current titles. That's a competitive advantage, right, not merely greed?
Note: I'm not saying it is proper behavior, or trying to justify it, just pointing out that it is rarely as simple as ascribing a human motivation to a corporation.
If you monetize your GAAS title better than your competition that means you have more money to make the next title, more money to put into content for your current titles. That's a competitive advantage, right, not merely greed?
Note: I'm not saying it is proper behavior, or trying to justify it, just pointing out that it is rarely as simple as ascribing a human motivation to a corporation.
Maintenance
Member
That money isn't going to QA, that's for goddamn sure.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Big question is why arent reviewers marking these games down accordingly that use loot boxes and advising everyone so they know not to pick it up at all?
Thats the only way youll get publishers/developers to change.
Taking 2 or 3 points off the score for loot box inclusion alone would do wonders for the industry.
Thats the only way youll get publishers/developers to change.
Taking 2 or 3 points off the score for loot box inclusion alone would do wonders for the industry.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Because at the moment its still a fun game that works with the loot box system. The issue is the prospect of them selling tokens later down the line. But they cant mark down a game based on what is an unknown at this point.
It's honestly pretty disgusting where the game designers have taken this series. It's not about the love for racing anymore, it's not about that progression where you slowly improve, move on up the ladder of skill. You have the real fans on a pointless, bleak grind, in anticipation of the next little candy, that it's good enough to keep them going. Then you have the whales, with too much expendable income, that can get all the good experiences without the work, but they don't really enjoy it as much because getting them was too easy.
I hope GT Sport is good.
I hope GT Sport is good.
Kalamari
Member
Because there is no separation between game journalism and game marketing. Only a handful of game reviewers out there are willing to express their honest opinion, the rest are in it for the publisher handouts.
I am sure Jim Sterling has a video about that as well.
When the heart of the criticism is "the game doesn't have enough included content because it is being separated and re-sold," that makes a significant difference.
As an enemy if all things Microtransactions and lootboxxes, I agree with this message. Start calling out these wankers of 2K, Microsoft, EA, and everybody else who EVER used lootboxes! Especially in a Premium priced 60 dollar game!
Was just listening about this on Player One Podcast as well and this is all super disheartening to hear. They described it as lootboxes being "everywhere" in the game.
This year it seems a lot of publishers have taken that "next step" and started to put things of actual consequence behind not only microtransactions but loot boxes. It's infesting at an alarming rate to say the least where actual game design is being affected at it's core to support them.
And... I'm not sure what can be done. Certainly I'm much more concerned and aware of the practice and will now try and avoid games that have these systems in single player games \ campaigns. It's the only thing I can do but I dunno if it'll have a big effect... seems like people are much more amenable to buying these than previous nonsense like online passes.
If this keeps up and the console gaming sector becomes like mobile games I may have to just move on altogether. I love gaming but man... not like this.
This year it seems a lot of publishers have taken that "next step" and started to put things of actual consequence behind not only microtransactions but loot boxes. It's infesting at an alarming rate to say the least where actual game design is being affected at it's core to support them.
And... I'm not sure what can be done. Certainly I'm much more concerned and aware of the practice and will now try and avoid games that have these systems in single player games \ campaigns. It's the only thing I can do but I dunno if it'll have a big effect... seems like people are much more amenable to buying these than previous nonsense like online passes.
If this keeps up and the console gaming sector becomes like mobile games I may have to just move on altogether. I love gaming but man... not like this.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
The issue is loot boxes should not be included in games you pay for.
I bet the movie industry would have the balls to mark down movies that put a questionnaire you must answer correct or pay for to watch the second half of the film.
Dyson Industries
Banned
What does that have to do with anyth- OH. They're your team.
Transistor
Banned
Commercials during movies. It's gonna happen. They'll call it "intermissions"
Microsoft are devaluing their first party games by including microtransaction nonsense and hurting their brand IMO. I played Killer Instinct on XBO awhile ago and I remember just being turned off by all the gold coins (indicating loot boxes and the like) I would see on almost every screen. It makes the games look (and feel) like a cheap F2P game. All of this while Nintendo and Sony strengthen their first parties.
Microsoft can go down the GAAS, F2P route but I don't think it will be good for them and their first party brands. Especially with a resurgent Nintendo and their first party brand. More Cuphead, less Forza 7 microtransaction.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
But at the moment they are not asking you to pay extra for it. Right at this moment in time its a game mechanism, thats all.
brokenbeans
Banned
Of course a drive by in a Jim Sterling thread.
GHG
Gold Member
Why do you think they are yet to flick the switch to enable players to also pay for them?
Turn 10 is being sneaky by waiting until after the review period to turn on microtransactions. Let everyone review the game and buy it, then 2-3 months later bring in the microtransactions. very sneaky. Very few if any sites will revisit their review to deduct points after this has happened.
wapplew
Member
Random loot was in almost every game ever. You kill a monster it drop item randomly, you want specific drop, you farm specific monster over and over.
Diablo was famous for fat loot, in fact, Diablo 3 have loot boxes after you finish certain objective.
Modern game design just repackaged random loot into boxes and let you buy them with universal currency.
You still do what you do in video game, killing monster, do objective, they give you currency instead of loot drop directly, it give you option to buy the the random box that contain the item you want.
I call it modernized streamlined loot system.
To be fair, that makes a proof-of-concept for players that the game-credit economy is balanced and entertaining as-is, before "offering" microtransactions. And they've specified that you'll be able to turn off "token" visibility when they do launch later on (just like in the last several games).
It's impossible not to at this point.
And yet you ran in here to be first post
Audioboxer
Member
I'm actually thinking of not buying any type of full-priced game with random lootboxes to see if it alters what I buy throughout the year. Forza 7 is the first one that has made me cancel a preorder, and it's certainly something I am much more cognizant of now than I was before.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
What's your solution to increased budgets and game dev time due to increased complexity of games in general on top of higher asset quality? Or the fact that a lot of games with lootboxes are straight up free to play.
I'd more ask on "why" they hide their taxes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFKnv1YzI3k
The Last Wizard
Member
Some?lol
Check out any overwatch thread, people tripping over themselves to buy tons of lootboxes.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Same 😂
DangerMouse
Member
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