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[cormack12]

And then you see the time and effort spent on this shite in the OP while stories like this come out later. Everything has a cost.

Marvel’s Spider-Man 2: Developers had a "heated" meeting with Sony; thought they wouldn't meet expectations | LevelUp

Bryan Intihar talks about one of the most challenging moments in development

www.levelup.com

 

[RagnarokIV]

I’m unaware of another blockbuster game with anything close to the feel-good vibes of Marvel’s Spider-Man 2.

Insomniac Games’ follow-up to its 2018 hit Marvel’s Spider-Man (and the 2020 spinoff Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales) has so much positive energy and progressive political messaging that at one point I actually found my cheeks hurt from prolonged grinning.

As you swing through the game’s immense and detailed virtual New York you’ll take in a fantastically diverse city, filled with people of various ages, gender identities, physical abilities, and skin colours, all just living their lives.

There are cultural street festivals with dancing cooking you can almost smell. Rainbow and Ukrainian flags hang in front of stores. People speak in the languages in which they’re fluent, whether that means English, Spanish, or ASL.

And missions often up the positivity ante. Some of my favourites are ones where there isn’t even any fighting or action, but rather Spidey just doing friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man stuff. Like when he helps a gay kid arrange a series of surprises around campus for his boyfriend.

At one point someone says they want to pay Spider-Man for his service and he replies that Spider-Man never accepts payment… except for hugs. He’ll always take a hug.

Remember this gem?

 

[tommib]

I’m unaware of another blockbuster game with anything close to the feel-good vibes of Marvel’s Spider-Man 2.


Insomniac Games’ follow-up to its 2018 hit Marvel’s Spider-Man (and the 2020 spinoff Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales) has so much positive energy and progressive political messaging that at one point I actually found my cheeks hurt from prolonged grinning.


As you swing through the game’s immense and detailed virtual New York you’ll take in a fantastically diverse city, filled with people of various ages, gender identities, physical abilities, and skin colours, all just living their lives.



There are cultural street festivals with dancing cooking you can almost smell. Rainbow and Ukrainian flags hang in front of stores. People speak in the languages in which they’re fluent, whether that means English, Spanish, or ASL.

And missions often up the positivity ante. Some of my favourites are ones where there isn’t even any fighting or action, but rather Spidey just doing friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man stuff. Like when he helps a gay kid arrange a series of surprises around campus for his boyfriend.



At one point someone says they want to pay Spider-Man for his service and he replies that Spider-Man never accepts payment… except for hugs. He’ll always take a hug.

You could at least post the original link you got this from:

Marvel's Spider-Man 2 review: The feel-good game of the decade

Marvel's Spider-Man 2 is an ode to diversity, positivity, optimism, and progressive thought. Find out more.

financialpost.com

 

[DAHGAMING]

Reee wank fest going on over this shit. No wonder they only make soyboy Marvel and cute creature Ratchet and Clank games, we will never get a Resistance game again probably due to so many manly shootouts is seen as toxic masculinity now days.

 

[RagnarokIV]

You could at least post the original link you got this from:

Marvel's Spider-Man 2 review: The feel-good game of the decade

Marvel's Spider-Man 2 is an ode to diversity, positivity, optimism, and progressive thought. Find out more.

financialpost.com

I tried to copy and paste but the formatting got messed up (hence the triple line breaks etc).

 

[GrayChild]

Insomniac are just one of the many companies functioning like this. Almost makes me wish for more leaks to surface, so that this idiocy gets exposed and ridiculed even further.

 

[Hypereides]

I'm "observing" this stuff from race homogeneous country, we don't really have race related problems (on big scale at least) but what I'm seeing happening in US and Western Europe is truly mind boggling. There was this "color blindness" approach at one point where person skin color wasn't considered meaningful in any way (as it shouldn't) - people should be judged based on their actions. This in my opinion is a correct way of thinking for multicultural society (like US). NOW, everything is about skin color and "race" (and gender lol), even segregation is returning and (some) people are happy about this, world is really fucked up right now.

Honestly, the current American creative direction in gaming is causing more dividence than unification imo. I really don't understand how they think they are promoting natural and positive change through this. Its thinly veiled activism that's being funneled into games and other forms of entertainment.

(...)

(...)

That slide of Lara being propped as a "problematic" example is driving me up the wall. These weirdos want justification for destroying her character.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Meanwhile the villains will mostly be white males again lol

 

[DeepEnigma]

Lmao imagine being Sony and wasting money for this xDD braindead company

Sadly, all major companies are. Fall in line, citizen.

 

[tommib]

Honestly, the current direction in creativity is causing more dividence than unification imo. I really don't understand how they think are promoting natural and positive change through this. Its thinly veiled activism that's being funneled into games and other forms of entertainment.


That slide of Lara being propped as a "problematic" example is driving me up the wall. These weirdos want justification for destroying her character.

I didn’t even notice that section about classic Lara. I’m triggered as well. Original Tomb Raider Lara was more empancipated than any of the consequent attempts. Fucking idiots.

 

[TGO]

"A bad character is one that's focuses on their identity and revolves about them being black, or queer, it needs to be more than that, it can't be all that the character is about"

And yet....

 

[NickFire]

Sony should stop chasing trends unless they have a proven track record of success, which this kind of stuff does not. Unless you take a very narrow view and judge success by how much grifters can extract from mega corps while skipping down the road to missed financial forecasts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Glad I never opened my SM2 copy and returned it if I am being honest

I haven't purchased it yet, and now I don't plan to.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Textbook example of being triggered, what’s the matter with you… no shit Sherlock, the topic is Insomniac inclusivity training video leaked. Lol

Anyway, why is this not in the headlines? I feel like no one talks about this whole Sweet Baby Inc thing, have they ever been confronted about this.
I just can’t comprehend why this is a thing and no one is discussing it. Why?

Perhaps you should thoroughly read the post I was responding to (which called Insomniac a waist of money) before calling me triggered.

I'm not in agreement with with what's being forced on the industry and the world.

 

[Punished Miku]

"For example, considering the Little Mermaid remake, simply making Ariel black isn't enough to make for a diverse story - creators need to consider how this identity might pivot her actual story as well as make sure to reflect subtle inside truths in her persona and surroundings (e. g. acknowledging the reality of black hair in the water)"

The original really dropped the ball not showing her get sunburnt when she's on the surface to showcase the ginger experience.

 

[Chuck Berry]

How To Make A Racist Workplace tm

Also LO fucking L at "Deaf Expert" and "Puerto Rican Expert"

Insomniac can all go fuck themselves. Done with this company.

 

[Woggleman]

With the way some of the social justice crowd promote division they should just cut to the chase and embrace separatism. Them and white nationalists have more in common than either side would like to admit.

In no way am I endorsing these things but they should be honest about what they are.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"For example, considering the Little Mermaid remake, simply making Ariel black isn't enough to make for a diverse story - creators need to consider how this identity might pivot her actual story as well as make sure to reflect subtle inside truths in her persona and surroundings (e. g. acknowledging the reality of black hair in the water)"

Obligatory,

 

[thegame983]

I love how they lump black people in with the gays.

I'm sure they love that.

 

[00_Zer0]

Glad I never opened my SM2 copy and returned it if I am being honest

By no means should a company be rewarded for this kind of repulsive racist behavior. Good on you!

 

[Xtib81]

'most people appreciate when familiar characters get remade' (aka the little mermaid). Lmao in what world do they live!?? Most people, rightfully so, hate that shit.

 

[Bartski]

What about the inclusion of caucasian minorities? I demand to see my culture realistically represented

 

[DeepEnigma]

they should just cut to the chase and embrace separatism

They already are. Especially in colleges where this global warfare is/was indoctrinated. Sadly it's now seeping to elementary children and clearly all forms of media.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I saw the video and I don't see a problem? Insomniac's implementation of the ideas presented was very amateurish in Spiderman 2 though, didn't feel genuine.

 

[LordCBH]

why don’t these companies realize that no one wants them to virtue signal? We just want good games. Period. All this bullshit virtue signaling is going to chase away a LARGE chunk of their audience. Just look at Disney.


Side note: did the slur “latinx” make an appearance?

 

[Sushi_Combo]

So this confirms I'll never see a Resistance game ever again.

 

[Woggleman]

They already are. Especially in colleges where this global warfare is/was indoctrinated. Sadly it's now seeping to elementary children and clearly all forms of media.

If they support separation so much why do they not embrace white nationalism. The Nation of Islam back in the day met with George Lincoln Rockwell because they both had common goals. Why do modern cultural separatists not do the same?

 

[Nickolaidas]

"Female characters are not de-sexualized, you're just imagining conspiracies."

Yeah, fuck off.

 

[Rudius]

I won't by their games.

 

[shamoomoo]

The game that has a transgender character in the middle of an apocalypse? The game that has this evil white male insult Elie for her sexual orientation and her calling his sandwich, "a bigot" sandwich after he offered it to her to apologize? The game that has super buffed up Abby somehow finds supplements in a barren wasteland and manages to get the physique of a pro athlete? The game that has the evil white male Joel executed in the most unceremonious and gratuitous way possible.

I hope you're joking.

What transgender character in the Last Of Usart 2? I didn't play the game but I did see a long play through and I don't recall anything about a trans character,I might be misremembering them.


The highlighted part about Abby is a non-issue because the game is fictional and it's not like the game is taking place in the 17-1800s,the knowledge to manufacture certain products would still exist even if it was less efficient or practical.


Also, why bring up non-racial bigotry scenario in TLOU? Because in this particular context, LGBTQ people are a lateral top that affects all groups regardless of race so why would a, I'm assuming, a non-white or LGBTQ person take issue with a fictional white people chastising another white person because of sexual orientation? Given that most of the developers would've been white.

 

[Punished Miku]

why don’t these companies realize that no one wants them to virtue signal?

They're not after us. They want us to suck it up and buy it even if we complain. Its all aimed at kids and teenagers. Then they just wait 15 years and win. Its a propaganda initiative.

 

[squarealex]

gross
Players ain't stupid

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The BS part of all this is that much of what was said in the video by the actual minorities was not bad at all. Most of them were speaking against tokenized characters, i.e. characters whose only defining trait is that which identifies them as minorities (despite the fact that Insomniac went ahead and produced just that in SM2).

Watching the video, what I think becomes abundantly clear, however, is that as an ambition to create more diversity in the gaming industry by telling authentic stories that minorities can resonate with, the ambition itself is doomed to failure from the outset.

How does Insomniac, i.e. a studio full of mostly white devs from middle-class white America, think they're able to tell an authentic story about a half-black, half Puerto Rican kid from Queens?

This is my major problem with Wokeness. It's just a re-skinned new-age version of the white-saviour complex. It's privileged white people thinking they can and must speak for minorities. It's born out of a supreme hubris.

The BEST people to make entertainment that can tell authentic stories about minorities are not mostly white dev studios like Insomniac. Minorities themselves should be the creators taking on these projects. But the woke business leaders will not take on the risk of employing and nurturing minority-led studios. Instead, they get their superstar mostly white studios to make products trying to speak on behalf of a different group, and they feed them this BS propaganda to try to help them understand the experience of minorities.

It's frankly insulting to think that minority folks's life and cultural experiences can be distilled into a 20min - 1hr video.

Nevertheless, it's cheaper, easier, and the more lazy way to earn ESG score for a company to just put your white dev teams through this sort of woke conditioning. And the results speak for themselves; i.e. BS, cheap, tokenized caricatures whose existence in the game comes across as more propaganda than anything even approaching an attempt at telling authentic minority stories.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I love how they lump black people in with the gays.

I'm sure they love that.

Collectivism 101.

Spoiler

They are literally saying every group that is not straight and white, is not part of foundation America, in a way. You even get your own flag (and anthems now) while they push you to hate on the country of origin one, and other nation qualifiers separating you before 'American.'

Whites - they just call American if born here. They don't go around calling them European Americans or Caucasian Americans, like ever.

Blacks - are African American, the qualifier in front is all psychological, you see. It is to separate and not fully assimilate as just plain ole, American.

Asian - Asian American

Hispanic - Latin American

etc etc

Now get in the alphabet soup group too, we even painted a brown and black stripe on the updated flag! The USA flag is for the whites only!

It's all the same Jim Crow style playbook, just updated to encourage self-segregation.

If they support separation so much why do they not embrace white nationalism. The Nation of Islam back in the day met with George Lincoln Rockwell because they both had common goals. Why do modern cultural separatists not do the same?

We are being taught to hate each other, not embrace each other. One side being "right side of history" screams shades of 1938 or a "Great Leap Forward." Even Bolshevik-like tactics.

United we stand, divided we fall. It really is that simple.

They're not after us. They want us to suck it up and buy it even if we complain. Its all aimed at kids and teenagers. Then they just wait 15 years and win. Its a propaganda initiative.

Bingo!

Just like loot boxes and MTX. We saw those internal docs leak years and years ago. Where they just had to play the long game and take the lumps from us gaming dinosaurs, that once kids are raised on it, it will be accepted as the norm.

Look at the Christmas gift-card thread for Roblox and Fortnite, etc., as most wanted from kids now.

The 15 year new generational long game.

 

[Lord Panda]

This pandering virtue signalling shit has permeated across all first party studios from MS and Sony. Holy shit on a stick.

Insomniac and the other self-righteous smug ass studios call all go and fuck themselves. It's always telling that these knobheads will corrupt existing popular franchises and IPs, rather than go create shit for themselves. Wouldn't be surprised to see Wolverine being pro-Hamas in Insomniac's next game.

 

[Mister Wolf]

If you are not happy about this stuff, the best thing you can do is buy their games used if you still want to play them. I'll catch this game used on Ebay for $40 or less next year.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

that explains why there is a huge amount of non-caucasian npcs in spiderman 2.

I just take a look at the screen with full of npcs and i straightaway figure something was wrong.

*im asian btw.

I mean its New York City man.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/PST045222

 

[Dr.D00p]

Now I'm glad the woke cunts got hacked...

 

[kruis]

I'm "observing" this stuff from race homogeneous country, we don't really have race related problems (on big scale at least) but what I'm seeing happening in US and Western Europe is truly mind boggling. There was this "color blindness" approach at one point where person skin color wasn't considered meaningful in any way (as it shouldn't) - people should be judged based on their actions. This in my opinion is a correct way of thinking for multicultural society (like US). NOW, everything is about skin color and "race" (and gender lol), even segregation is returning and (some) people are happy about this, world is really fucked up right now.

It's crazy that here in the west we want to abolish racism and discrimination by laser focusing on it and by changing normal human interactions to such a degree that anti racists have become indistinguishable from actual racists.

 

[zenspider]

 

[rofif]

The game that has a transgender character in the middle of an apocalypse? The game that has this evil white male insult Elie for her sexual orientation and her calling his sandwich, "a bigot" sandwich after he offered it to her to apologize? The game that has super buffed up Abby somehow finds supplements in a barren wasteland and manages to get the physique of a pro athlete? The game that has the evil white male Joel executed in the most unceremonious and gratuitous way possible.

I hope you're joking.

It's not in the same league as these other games though.
Characters in tlou2 have "a character". They are not just "this person is trans" and this person is that.
There is some wokeness there a bit sure. But nothing on the same level. These are backgground characters traits. Not their whole reason for existing and force writting into the story

Pregnant woman going in to battle zones was pretty much up there.

This is just a bad story if anything. She is not empowered

 

[Reaseru]

Puerto Ricanx

 

[shamoomoo]

Nothing to see here, just woke American imperialism at work infesting the arts.



Insomniac if you're so principled then why did you remove all the pride flags and more from the Middle Eastern version of the game, rather than just not release the game in those territories like Square did with Final Fantasy 16?

First and foremost,they are a company that's about making money,if they are smart then they try to appease the taste for each market demographics by making changes that don't compromise their products too much.

In this particular scenario,I don't think Insomniac Games or Square Enix were being moral but knew where they could maximize or minimize profit loss.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The BS part of all this is that much of what was said in the video by the actual minorities was not bad at all. Most of them were speaking against tokenized characters, i.e. characters whose only defining trait is that which identifies them as minorities (despite the fact that Insomniac went ahead and produced just that in SM2).

Watching the video, what I think becomes abundantly clear, however, is that as an ambition to create more diversity in the gaming industry by telling authentic stories that minorities can resonate with, the ambition itself is doomed to failure from the outset.

How does Insomniac, i.e. a studio full of mostly white devs from middle-class white America, think they're able to tell an authentic story about a half-black, half Puerto Rican kid from Queens?

This is my major problem with Wokeness. It's just a re-skinned new-age version of the white-saviour complex. It's privileged white people thinking they can and must speak for minorities. It's born out of a supreme hubris.

The BEST people to make entertainment that can tell authentic stories about minorities are not mostly white dev studios like Insomniac. Minorities themselves should be the creators taking on these projects. But the woke business leaders will not take on the risk of employing and nurturing minority-led studios. Instead, they get their superstar mostly white studios to make products trying to speak on behalf of a different group, and they feed them this BS propaganda to try to help them understand the experience of minorities.

It's frankly insulting to think that minority folks's life and cultural experiences can be distilled into a 20 - 1hr video.

Nevertheless, it's cheaper, easier, and the more lazy way to earn ESG score for a company to just put your white dev teams through this sort of woke conditioning. And the results speak for themselves; i.e. BS, cheap, tokenized caricatures whose existence in the game comes across as more propaganda than anything even approaching an attempt at telling authentic minority stories.

Yup, at the end of the day it's about culture. It's not about skin color or eye shape, sexual orientation etc

If you want to write a character that comes from a certain culture, then you need a writer that understands that culture. It's not as easy as picking up some bullet points and making a really big deal about them, that's just pandering.

Unfortunately Spiderman 2 looks and feels like obvious pandering in multiple cases.

 

[kadab]

 

[Chukhopops]

This is why we cannot afford to lose Japan or Japanese games (although they might fall eventually).

 

[tommib]

They're not after us. They want us to suck it up and buy it even if we complain. Its all aimed at kids and teenagers. Then they just wait 15 years and win. Its a propaganda initiative.

What annoys me is that they’ve managed to annul all the emancipation that has been done before. They present themselves as starting from day zero rejecting and demonising every move done before their time. It’s such a low trick.

Going back to Lara, the latest version of her is so tame, whinny and insufferable compared to 90s kick-ass version. But they can’t recognise it. Feminism started when DEI was invented. Everything done before is problematic.

It’s obnoxious and self-defeating.

 

[Banjo64]

Sony are a joke of a company. Moving PlayStation HQ to California in 2016 began the death spiral of the company. Believe me when I say this isn’t warring, and that the exact same applies to Microsoft. Western media has entered a dark age. I’m sure some purple heads will be along to tell me that they are making money, and that’s great. But what does the legacy of these games look like in 20 years time? Will they be as revered as games like Crash and Spyro? No, they are forgettable slop. Junk food.

In comparison, Japanese manga and video games are currently in a golden age. It’s no coincidence that as a nation they aren’t influenced by this disease of the mind.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Punished Miku]

What annoys me is that they’ve managed to annul all the emancipation that has been done before. They present themselves as starting from day zero rejecting and demonising every move done before their time. It’s such a low trick.

Going back to Lara, the latest version of her is so tame, whinny and insufferable compared to 90s kick-ass version. But they can’t recognise it. Feminism started when DEI was invented. Everything done before is problematic.

It’s obnoxious and self-defeating.

100%. There's a meme out there about Hunger Games being the 1st female lead ever lol, with Ripley from Aliens in the background from the 70s.