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Looking Back At Microsoft's 13 Years of First Party

spekkeh

Banned
Sony has closed a shit load of studios in the past 5 years, far more than Microsoft has.
Microsoft has opened a shitload of studios in the past 5 years, far more than Sony has.

Yet here we are. Apparently contracting studios to make games is awful and the only "honourable" way to make games is by first party. It doesn't matter that without Microsoft games like Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Crackdown, Gears of War, Crimson Dragon, Ryse, Dead Rising, Tintanfall wouldn't even exist/be released. All that matters is fuck Microsoft because they don't own those studios.

But if Microsoft DOES go and buy studios, then fuck Microsoft for throwing their money around. Those assholes buy everything. I mean, they ruined RARE! People crucify Microsoft for not having diversity, but when Microsoft lets Rare release Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Conker: Live and Reloaded, Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, Viva Pinata, and a revamped Banjo & Kazooie (which Rare wanted to do themselves), and they all are mediocre sellers, then its Microsoft's fault. Rare finally gets a huge hit copying Nintendo's formula with Kinect Sports, and then let's scream about how Microsoft is ruining Rare.

This is a good post, most of it is from before 2008 when they turned their backs on their customers but still; though
Online Gaming as a standard?
Hard drives as a standard?
Voice Chat as Standard?
Literally creating the Indie space and Digital Store for smaller games on console?
Matchmaking systems that every developer in the industry uses?
Party Chat that's universal?
Apps becoming standard for consoles to make consoles a lot more robust?

I could never use any of this because they blocked out half of the games I bought behind a fucking artificial paywall.

So all n all, yes fuck em. Everything Microsoft does sucks.
 
So then playstation 3 was "damaged goods" the first few years of last gen and i guess the WiiU should just pack it up and go home.

Yes and for good reasons then too. WiiU is a niche product and won't ever come back from that.

So sure. If you think that the market is reacting the way it is solely due to warriors then I'm not sure where your head is at. Xbox is a damaged brand name just about WW now.
 

MUnited83

For you.
TLOU didn't even sell 5 million on PS3 while Halo 4 sold more than 9 million copies. What the fuck kind of bullshit is this?
Except you pulled those numbers out of your ass. TLoU sold a little under 5 million, while Halo 4 barely broke 9 million.

If people should be upset about anything it's MS not taking care of Mech Warrior, Shadow Run, Perfect Dark, Conker, Banjo, Age of Empires, and Fable. With MCC and what has been stated about Halo 5, Halo is the ONLY IP other than Forza they're not neglecting.
Says "you pulled those numbers out of your ass" > procedes to post VG Chartz numbers.



:lol:
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
There was *A* game that did it that I can remember - Halo 4. Going 7 years on your console with no games really taking advantage of it due to your SKU cert policies is not "standardizing" it, sorry. I just can't agree to that.

There was also Forza and GTAV.

But again: what did the HDD do on the PS3 that was so great that the 'optional' HDD on 360 couldn't do? Game installs were only required on PS3 because the BR drive had such a slow transfer rate. That's why PS3 games had multi-GB installs, not because they were doing amazing things that couldn't be done without it.

For meaningful functionality, such as saving, downloading games, demos, storing music, the 360 could do it all. And moreover, it could also copy games to the HDD to improve load times: something the PS3 couldn't do despite its standardised HDD.

So yes, Xbox standardised the HDD for all meaningful functionality.

So then playstation 3 was "damaged goods" the first few years of last gen and i guess the WiiU should just pack it up and go home.

PS3 was damaged goods for the first few years of last gen, what are you going on about?
 

Vast.

Banned
There was *A* game that did it that I can remember - Halo 4. Going 7 years on your console with no games really taking advantage of it due to your SKU cert policies is not "standardizing" it, sorry. I just can't agree to that.
What are you even talking about? Xbox 360 games not utilizing the HDD? Every single Xbox 360 game can be installed on to the hard drive. Microsoft does more with the HDD (even while not being fully standard at the start of last gen), than anyone else.

EDIT: Or read what godelsmetric said above.
 

maomao

Banned
I think what MS has done is great for gaming.

However,no matter what MS does, MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog. MS will never be as greatly cherished as Sony and Nintendo in the gaming community.
 

Vast.

Banned
I think what MS has done is great for gaming.

However,no matter what MS does, MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog. MS will never be as greatly cherished as Sony and Nintendo in the gaming community.
Look at this thread. Its not about Xbox fans wanting Microsoft to be cherished by everyone. It's about not being shat on at every turn, snarky comments in every thread, and disingenuous arguments in every "console war" thread.

Like how 50 times in this thread someone has implied that Microsoft just throws money around and doesn't contribute to gaming. But why is funding third party development from scratch any less valid than buying a studio and funding the development of the game?
 
That opening post is spot on about the Xbox 360 feeling like an advertising module with games as a side business.

I was pretty dissapointed with MS's first party efforts last gen (Sony too...).

Nintendo, Sega, and SNK had great support for their systems.
 

SeanTSC

Member
There was also Forza and GTAV.

But again: what did the HDD do on the PS3 that was so great that the 'optional' HDD on 360 couldn't do? Game installs were only required on PS3 because the BR drive had such a slow transfer rate. That's why PS3 games had multi-GB installs, not because they were doing amazing things that couldn't be done without it.

For meaningful functionality, such as saving, downloading games, demos, storing music, the 360 could do it all. And moreover, it could also copy games to the HDD to improve load times: something the PS3 couldn't do despite its standardised HDD.

So yes, Xbox standardised the HDD for all meaningful functionality.



PS3 was damaged goods for the first few years of last gen, what are you going on about?

Having one of your main selling SKUs as HDD-less makes it not standard. I just won't agree with you, you should leave it at that. I'm not saying that Sony standardized it either. I don't think one or the other can claim responsibility for it. Sony had HDD support built into the PS2 from the very first model and it was released before the Xbox and had it mandatory on every PS3. Microsoft had a built in HDD on the Xbox, but it was not standard on the X360 at all and many huge selling models did not come with it.
 
Look at this thread. Its not about Xbox fans wanting Microsoft to be cherished by everyone. It's about not being shat on at every turn, snarky comments in every thread, and disingenuous arguments in every "console war" thread.

Like how 50 times in this thread someone has implied that Microsoft just throws money around and doesn't contribute to gaming. But why is funding third party development from scratch any less valid than buying a studio and funding the development of the game?

Could be that people don't agree with you and actually feel that MS deserves it? This whole GAF hates MS persecution ignores one thing. Maybe they dug their own grave? Maybe they continue to?

Sorta like GAF hates SONY and Nintendo when they act fools and screw up. I've been here since 2001. This period is no different than any other when a company got in bad favor with the community. Right now that's the community you seemingly root for. Sorry bout it.
 

Vast.

Banned
Could be that people don't agree with you and actually feel that MS deserves it? This whole GAF hates MS persecution ignores one thing. Maybe they dug their own grave? Maybe they continue to?

Sorta like GAF hates SONY and Nintendo when they act fools and screw up. I've been here since 2001. This period is no different than any other when a company got in bad favor with the community. Right now that's the community you seemingly root for. Sorry bout it.
So, fanboys gonna be fanboys. People are gonna troll, Deal with it.

Gotchya.
 
So, fanboys gonna be fanboys. People are gonna troll, Deal with it.

Gotchya.

You call it trolling. That's fine. I call it people thinking differently than you. Whatever helps you cope. GAF hates lies and stupidity. This is MS' time in the sun.

This generation will be difficult for you.
 
This has always been what's disappointed me about MS, though there have been great phases, like the original Xbox, where their support of Sega in particular I was a huge fan of.
 

Vast.

Banned
You call it trolling. That's fine. I call it people thinking differently than you. Whatever helps you cope. GAF hates lies and stupidity. This is MS' time in the sun.

This generation will be difficult for you.
This is not a narrative or a "persecution complex". Let's literally read the title of this thread and every single post on the first page. And also lets wonder why threads are getting locked all the time. Console wars bullshit is rampant.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873854

You can act like I'm talking about all of gaf, or you can understand that I'm talking specifically about a group of people that are making any discussion unbearable on this forum.
 
This is not a narrative or a "persecution complex". Let's literally read the title of this thread and every single post on the first page. And also lets wonder why threads are getting locked all the time. Console wars bullshit is rampant.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873854

You can act like I'm talking about all of gaf, or you can understand that I'm talking specifically about a group of people that are making any discussion unbearable on this forum.

Believe what you like I guess. If it makes sense to you, then great.
 

FacelessSamurai

..but cry so much I wish I had some
You call it trolling. That's fine. I call it people thinking differently than you. Whatever helps you cope. GAF hates lies and stupidity. This is MS' time in the sun.

This generation will be difficult for you.

It has never been that bad in the past, it has really gone the shitter lately much more than I would have expected and has made some of those threads really unbearable sometimes, as people try to talk about something and all we see is tons of troll posts over the place.
 
It has never been that bad in the past, it has really gone the shitter lately much more than I would have expected and has made some of those threads really unbearable sometimes, as people try to talk about something and all we see is tons of troll posts over the place.

Again I've been here through the Dreamcast on. It HAS been this bad. Over and over.
 

TheFatOne

Member
I stand corrected, however, the real numbers are even more in Halo 4's favor:

TLOU (according to wikipedia): 7 million
Halo 4 (again, wikipedia): "The game sold more than four million copies in the first 24 hours on sale and is the best selling entry of the series [2], surpassing the 14.5 million sales of Halo 3 in less then 8 months"

So yeah, Halo is really irrelevant. Thank you for helping me understand that!

Can you source a link other than wiki or chartz for the halo number? Looked through the wiki and they didn't source where they got that line unless I missed it. I think I remember reading on gaf that it's at 9 or 10 million, but I can't find a source.
 

FacelessSamurai

..but cry so much I wish I had some
Can you source a link other than wiki or chartz for the halo number? Looked through the wiki and they didn't source where they got that line unless I missed it. I think I remember reading on gaf that it's at 9 or 10 million, but I can't find a source.

The 9 or 10 million is sourced from that charts site you can't talk about.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
My personal take on things...

- you buy a Nintendo console because they're going to create some great content.
- you buy a Sony console because they're going to create some great content.
- you buy a Microsoft console because they're going to buy some great content.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Having one of your main selling SKUs as HDD-less makes it not standard. I just won't agree with you, you should leave it at that. I'm not saying that Sony standardized it either. I don't think one or the other can claim responsibility for it. Sony had HDD support built into the PS2 from the very first model and it was released before the Xbox and had it mandatory on every PS3. Microsoft had a built in HDD on the Xbox, but it was not standard on the X360 at all and many huge selling models did not come with it.
Okay, but I'm saying that the 360 supported all the meaningful functionality that we've come to expect from a console with an HDD.

The PS2 HDD, as far as I know, had virtually no functionality at all beyond a couple of niche games.

What more do you want? Yes in theory the 360 SKUs could have undermined the console's HDD use. In practice it didn't. You're hung up on a technicality while ignoring all of the facts.

Honestly this is the kind of obstinate 'MS HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING GOOD FOR ANYTHING EVER' attitude that really just undermines those of us that have good reasons to dislike them.
 
I'm sorry is this supposed to be your "counter argument"? If we are going to to dismiss people's posts based on their post history , then the post that OP quoted to start this thread by drek should be subject of the same dismissal based on his post history of shitting on MS and propping up Sony.

I wish people on both sides of these arguments here would actually address the points at hand and stop with the personal attacks and red herrings. As with all things, reality is always more complicated than we might think or want it to be. MS is neither the devil incarnate to gaming, nor are they the best thing to ever happen to gaming. These companies are made of hundreds or even thousands of people...each with their own idea of where the company should be going. And with as many management changes these companies go through, it's no wonder it can be difficult to really "figure them out" and why it seems their "direction" changes so often.

The OP has some valid points that are worthy of discussion, but it is misleading in some ways. For one, it seems to ignore some good examples of "less-traditional" games that have found their ways to Xbox (or games that are often claimed to not exist on Xbox systems). Some recent ones include Sunset Overdrive (gimme that Dreamcast vibe now!), KI, Scalebound, Project Spark, Ori, Below, and even crackdown to an extent. And there have been many from the past like Viva Pinata (!), Kameo, and the many original games from the early 360/OG Xbox years (many of which hopefully make a return). We know MS is capable of releasing these types of games, and it does seem like they're still being made (you can argue about the output of these types of games, but it is happening). But I think the question should be why there has been less focus attached to these types of games than there used to be back in the OG Xbox days. And that is worth discussing.

One point that addresses this is the reality of making games today. A lot of these games from the past that were less-traditional didn't sell well (unfortunately, damnit!!), and sequels did. It's not just a MS problem since you see this industry wide. Company makes two games: less-traditional game releases to great reviews, but manages to barely sell a million copies; sequel of popular franchise releases to ho-hum reviews but sells 5 millions copies. What option do you think most publishers will go after next?

This problem does seem a bit amplified at MS because they have less studios...and Rare is a great example of this. I do wonder what most people would have had them do from a business perspective. They were making a lot of non-traditional games in the early 360 years (that I bought and thought were great games)...but they weren't selling. They then get a "hit" in kinect sports and I see why the direction of the company changed. I personally wasn't happy with this change, but it made perfect sense from a business perspective for why they'd go after that "big seller". Too bad for them that the motion gaming craze crashed before they could cash in again...but can you blame them for going in this direction? Even when they were making games that they "should" be making, they weren't selling a whole lot.

Gaming is still a business at the end of the day. And that drives these decisions. I don't like it, but this is sadly the reality of AAA development today. Publishers pour millions of dollars into games and want (and even expect) millions of sales and dollars back. But, thankfully, small-scale development/indie/low cost development is gaining more and more attention and seems to be bringing back that creative touch that's been missing for years. And I think it can really change the way these companies (MS especially) approach franchises that aren't huge sellers.

This type of development could even address another point that is worth discussing: how MS is less willing to take risks on less-traditional games (especially compared to Sony and Nintendo). MS has, at times, seemed to take risks on games (definitely in the OG Xbox days), but Sony and Nintendo have continually seemed more willing to take a chance on games that probably won't sell millions of copies. I have for a while wished MS would be more willing to take chances on games that might not sell as much as they want. And hopefully KI and Phantom Dust are the start of a new trend that dips into the many great IPs that MS owns. I think they would be foolish to not release more of these older IPs, and the strategy used with KI could be a great way to get these IPs back into gaming in a low cost way. I guess only time will tell us if this is a real trend that they're pursuing (I sure hope it is!).

I hope Sony and Nintendo try out that strategy on some of their long-lost IPs, too.
 
I think the real issue everyone has is Microsoft's means of obtaining exclusives. Exclusives in and of themselves are not a bad thing.

When purchasing timed exclusives, all that's really done is thrown a bunch of money at the publisher to artificially limit the competing consoles. That's it. It's not so much paying for an exclusive as they are paying to block out the competitor.

When starting a studio or purchasing an existing one for the sake of exclusives, that's a whole different story. The purchaser is now directly funding the studio in question. They're bringing them under the fold and have the potential to nourish the studio in question. That can be through networking, connecting new talent with the studio, or through close cooperation with console engineers to maximize a game's potential on a specific platform. Something is being contributed here, especially in the creation of a new studio, and gamers and the industry have the potential to benefit.

This is my take on the matter, too.
 

SeanTSC

Member
Okay, but I'm saying that the 360 supported all the meaningful functionality that we've come to expect from a console with an HDD.

The PS2 HDD, as far as I know, had virtually no functionality at all beyond a couple of niche games.

What more do you want? Yes in theory the 360 SKUs could have undermined the console's HDD use. In practice it didn't. You're hung up on a technicality while ignoring all of the facts.

Honestly this is the kind of obstinate 'MS HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING GOOD FOR ANYTHING EVER' attitude that really just undermines those of us that have good reasons to dislike them.

I'm not ignore any facts. I'm disputing that Microsoft is solely responsible for standardizing *one* feature out of his entire post. I never said anything like "blah blah blah MS has never done anything good" or anything remotely like that. They're responsible for a lot of good things and I never said otherwise. I just don't think they deserve full credit for that one thing. No one really is responsible for that on their own or, alternatively, you could say that both Microsoft and Sony are responsible for it if you wanted, I guess.

Blurting out your bullshit "Honestly.." line on me is uncalled for and I have said absolutely nothing to warrant it. I did not jump in and say "Nope that's all Sony!" or anything like that or start bad mouthing Microsoft. I proudly have a pretty fucking huge library of Microsoft games and quite enjoyed the time I spent with them as my primary gaming ecosystem.
 

abadguy

Banned
You call it trolling. That's fine. I call it people thinking differently than you. Whatever helps you cope. GAF hates lies and stupidity. This is MS' time in the sun.

This generation will be difficult for you.
With all the salt in threads like these with TR and Titanfall before that, i'm thinking this generation is already difficult for you people.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
I'm not ignore any facts. I'm disputing that Microsoft is solely responsible for standardizing *one* feature out of his entire post. I never said anything like "blah blah blah MS has never done anything good" or anything remotely like that. They're responsible for a lot of good things and I never said otherwise. I just don't think they deserve full credit for that one thing. No one really is responsible for that on their own or, alternatively, you could say that both Microsoft and Sony are responsible for it if you wanted, I guess.

Blurting out your bullshit "Honestly.." line on me is uncalled for and I have said absolutely nothing to warrant it. I did not jump in and say "Nope that's all Sony!" or anything like that or start bad mouthing Microsoft. I proudly have a pretty fucking huge library of Microsoft games and quite enjoyed the time I spent with them as my primary gaming ecosystem.

Yes sorry that last paragraph was kind of uncalled for, my apologies.

Still I can't see the argument that it was a 'joint' thing, or that they're equally responsible. MS were there with the OG Xbox, they were there with the 360, and they established virtually all of the expected functionality.
 

SeanTSC

Member
Yes sorry that last paragraph was kind of uncalled for, my apologies.

Still I can't see the argument that it was a 'joint' thing, or that they're equally responsible. MS were there with the OG Xbox, they were there with the 360, and they established virtually all of the expected functionality.

No problem. I just don't view having one of your primary, mainstream SKUs being HDD-less as being a leader in standardizing a feature is all. It's not like this was some little side model they did it with you know. Maybe I'm not picking too much, but I think it's an important distinction to make when crediting someone with something. If half your models don't have it then it's not really standard imo. It's actually something that really irked me back in the day, since it did specifically prevent developers from using more of the system than they otherwise could have.
 
Not that I really disagree with this truthbomb, but...

a) The discussion is about Microsoft's management of first-parties in the console gaming space over the past thirteen years, so all the great stuff they did in the past in the PC space doesn't apply, especially considering the trainwreck that has come since.

b) The list of not-related-to-the-topic look-at-Microsoft's-contributions bullet points is a good one; however, the PC parts/online multiplayer/hard drive stuff dates back to the original Xbox and Xbox Live (so 2001/2002), and honestly I personally feel they've done nothing to "improve" their offerings since, instead plastering advertising and paywalling tons of shit behind their "great" console online offering and trying to do things like the awful GFWL. (I'll give them full points for the indie push, but the architecture comment just seems like unnecessary tire pumping.)

c) I don't think anyone is arguing that Microsoft's money-hatting or throwing-of-money-at-existing-studios-to-get-exclusives hasn't led to some great titles, but more that they haven't really done anything to foster/develop acquisitions further or spin up new studios. Hell, of the games you listed, three of the five were developed by "acquired" studios, only one of the IPs still being used, and FASA was shut down while Bungie is no longer a Microsoft-managed studio.

The "problem" (if you consider it a problem, but in the context of this thread, that's the "problem" being debated, anyway) is that they've had 13 years in the console space and have no real "stable" to speak of, at least when you compare it to the other two. Turn 10 might be the only one "spun up" that is still around, and pretty much all of their notable/noteworthy acquisitions were subsequently shut down or left, whereas the other two pubs still have not-insigificant in-house or acquired studio development, and have been able to make franchises out of them.

We're in an era where both Sony and Microsoft are pouring boatloads of money into "content denial" strategies instead of "content creation" ones, and many people find that distasteful. Fund Platinum to make a game on your console -- great. Pay a company a boatload of cash to make games/content "exclusive" to your console for a period of time -- not great. One of these leads to more content overall, one of these leads to the same amount of content through fewer channels.

I do think that Microsoft gets a lot of flak, but it really is befuddling that they've managed to completely botch this part of it, especially considering their "good old days" strengths in the PC market. It becomes more than befuddling when it leads to less things overall, in the name of trying to compel you to buy their hardware.
Another fantastic post.

Speaking of FASA... MS could have had its own Uncharted/Tomb Raider. What if MS spent the TR money on making a new Crimson Skies, a hybrid of aerial dogfights and Uncharted-esque scripted adventure sequences? Would anyone like that?
 
Yeah man, Microsoft's first party output has just been terrible. I mean, look at the other amazing First Party quality Xbox gamers are missing out on.

WVi3ZEQ.png

SAoTvuW.png


Microsoft's First Party output is completely fine. They sell pretty fucking amazing, get critically acclaimed, and are successful. It's one thing to say that Microsoft's IPs and Exclusives don't interest you, but to try and discredit Microsoft's output by simply stating "lol FPS FPS FPS DUDEBRO FORZA FABLE HALO GEARS" is ridiculous.

Microsoft made one of the most successful franchise's in gaming with Halo. They created a new successful Billion making IP with Gears. They created the most critically acclaimed racing franchise with Forza. They outputted the best dancing game with Dance Central. They created a successful franchise challenging Wii Sports with Kinect Sports. They made amazing family friendly titles with Viva Pinata and Banjo. They have made a ton of great games and exclusives, and to try and shine their output as a failure is completely fucking wrong.
 

Amir0x

Banned
When put in this context, it really shines a light on how Microsoft acts. There are exceptions of course, but it really does seem to be a guided path they stay on.
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
MS is w\just the worst.

Sony & Nintendo were completely successful with their 1st party games throughout consoles generations.. Successful franchises & constant new IPs.

Microsoft on the other hand only had two successes, Turn10 & Bungie. Both were forced into making the same game over & over with no new IPs.

MS had Rare, Bizarre Creations & Lionhead Studios. In their prime, some of the top developers ever assembled & mismanaged the hell out of them.
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Online Gaming as a standard?
Hard drives as a standard?
Voice Chat as Standard?
Literally creating the Indie space and Digital Store for smaller games on console?
Matchmaking systems that every developer in the industry uses?
Party Chat that's universal?
Apps becoming standard for consoles to make consoles a lot more robust?

You might as well add, acquiring killer 1st party studios to that list as well.
They made a lot of smart designs & choices, It's just that they didn't know how to keep up the good work throughout.


All the goodwill & ideas of the original Xbox & the 1st half of the 360's life was pretty much forgotten by them as they continued.
 

nynt9

Member
Yeah man, Microsoft's first party output has just been terrible. I mean, look at the other amazing First Party quality Xbox gamers are missing out on.

Microsoft's First Party output is completely fine. They sell pretty fucking amazing, get critically acclaimed, and are successful. It's one thing to say that Microsoft's IPs and Exclusives don't interest you, but to try and discredit Microsoft's output by simply stating "lol FPS FPS FPS DUDEBRO FORZA FABLE HALO GEARS" is ridiculous.

Microsoft made one of the most successful franchise's in gaming with Halo. They created a new successful Billion making IP with Gears. They created the most critically acclaimed racing franchise with Forza. They outputted the best dancing game with Dance Central. They created a successful franchise challenging Wii Sports with Kinect Sports. They made amazing family friendly titles with Viva Pinata and Banjo. They have made a ton of great games and exclusives, and to try and shine their output as a failure is completely fucking wrong.

Actually, if we look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

Gran Turismo and Crash Bandicoot outsell Halo, which is the 30th top selling franchise. Gears is way down the list after God of War, and is not a billion earner. And Forza is nowhere on the list whereas GT is the top 19th selling franchise. And Kinect is NOWHERE NEAR Wii Sports, it's not even on the list.

Nice try though!
 

Xenon

Member
drek said:
Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Fable and Crackdown say hi


drek said:
Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

You are freaking high if you think Bungie would have come even close to the success they had with Halo or the quality if MS didn't pick them up for the Xbox.



drek said:
Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

From what I hear Shadowrun was a great game, but a little ahead of it's time. People wanted straight up shooters, Shadowrun was too weird.


drek said:
Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

MS gave Rare every opportunity to succeed but they couldn't. I love how people lump Rares failures on MS when Rare failed to deliver a hit game time and time again.

edit: I think everyone who's played the new KI is more than happy MS didn't give it to Rare.



drek said:
Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.


The company was run by one of the biggest charlatans in the industry. But once again their failure to produce original content was MS fault.

drek said:
Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Praising the Studio that MS built kind of goes against your point, no? Because had MS not funneled so much of their evil money into Bungie, turning them into the studio they are today, there is a good chance that Destiny would never have been made.

MS has a different model than Sony. It has some advantages, MS partnership with Epic produced on of the more revered new franchises from last gen, Gears of War. But there are drawbacks, like having to pony up a wad a cash later to keep it. It also gave us Too Human, which despite it's flaws was a great truly original game. Crackdown was also brilliant.

Sorry but this list panders to the crowd who has no desire to see it's flaws. It's sprinkled with facts but does not even come close to telling the whole story.
 

nynt9

Member
Fable and Crackdown say hi

Crakdown is developed by Realtime Worlds, they're third party. Fable was in development before Lionhead's acquisition.

You are freaking high if you think Bungie would have come even close to the success they had with Halo or the quality if MS didn't pick them up for the Xbox.

Quality, it would still be as good, if not better due to PC controls (imo). Success? Who knows.

From what I hear Shadowrun was a great game, but a little ahead of it's time. People wanted straight up shooters, Shadowrun was too weird.

I don't really see how. It was ahead of its time in that it was lacking single player, just liek Titanfall, which was heavily criticized for the same reasons.

MS gave Rare every opportunity to succeed but they couldn't. I love how people lump Rares failures on MS when Rare failed to deliver a hit game time and time again.

edit: I think everyone who's played the new KI is more than happy MS didn't give it to Rare.

Someone had a post somewhere about how all the interesting projects Rare came up with weren't greenlit by Microsoft. I can't be bothered to find it.

The company was run by one of the biggest charlatans in the industry. But once again their failure to produce original content was MS fault.

If you purchase a company then you run the company, thus it's your fault.

Praising the Studio that MS built kind of goes against your point, no? Because had MS not funneled so much of their evil money into Bungie, turning them into the studio they are today, there is a good chance that Destiny would never have been made.

MS has a different model than Sony. It has some advantages, MS partnership with Epic produced on of the more revered new franchises from last gen, Gears of War. But there are drawbacks, like having to pony up a wad a cash later to keep it. It also gave us Too Human, which despite it's flaws was a great truly original game. Crackdown was also brilliant.

Sorry but this list panders to the crowd who has no desire to see it's flaws. It's sprinkled with facts but does not even come close to telling the whole story.

Your list has no desire to see Microsoft's flaws. It goes both ways. This issue isn't black or white.
 

Competa

Banned
Actually, if we look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

Gran Turismo and Crash Bandicoot outsell Halo, which is the 30th top selling franchise. Gears is way down the list after God of War, and is not a billion earner. And Forza is nowhere on the list whereas GT is the top 19th selling franchise. And Kinect is NOWHERE NEAR Wii Sports, it's not even on the list.

Nice try though!

Gran Turismo and Crash Bandicoot were release way before the Xbox came out.
And haven't Crash also been on OG xbox ?
 

Nanashrew

Banned
This is something I tend to bring up often and I agree with everything in the OP and Espher's post. That 400 million NFL license could have given them many unique games from their own studios or funding new works but instead they continue to buy out exclusivity in content denial fashion.

This is a problem. 13 years and they've stayed the course with this plan and it still looks like there's no sign of changing.
 
Microsoft has been in the games business for decades. If you want to get real about it, they've been involved in gaming for longer than Sony have. Sony got into the games market to spite Nintendo over a hardware deal that went south. Microsoft were involved in PC gaming for years before the Xbox came out. Age Of Empires. Flight Simulator. Heck, before Flight Simulator there was Microsoft Space Simulator, released in 1994. Fighter Ace. Hellbender. Midtown Madness. Urban Assault. Microsoft were publishing games back when Sony was still nothing more than a TV and Walkman company.
A bit late to the party, but I'd dare to say you are completely wrong. As you yourself kinda point out, I don't think you can say Microsoft was doing any meaningful game publishing until the mid 90s, when they felt the need to prove decent gaming performance was possible on Windows 95.

Sony on the other hand got into gaming in the mid-late 80s when CBS Records/Sony Music Japan started publishing games for the Famicom, and a bit later worldwide with the establishment of CGB/Sony Imagesoft. Not to mention they also purchased Psygnosis in 93. Both had a linage as serious game publishers far longer back than Microsoft, and proved experience that was leveraged for launch of the PlayStation.

Speaking of FASA... MS could have had its own Uncharted/Tomb Raider. What if MS spent the TR money on making a new Crimson Skies, a hybrid of aerial dogfights and Uncharted-esque scripted adventure sequences? Would anyone like that?
This actually already happened. The key Crimson Skies developers went off and founded Airtight Games, and tried making a game combining a cinematic TPS and aerial combat. The result was Dark Void...
 

Pathos

Banned

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Actually, if we look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

Gran Turismo and Crash Bandicoot outsell Halo, which is the 30th top selling franchise. Gears is way down the list after God of War, and is not a billion earner. And Forza is nowhere on the list whereas GT is the top 19th selling franchise. And Kinect is NOWHERE NEAR Wii Sports, it's not even on the list.

Nice try though!

Wikipedia is not always correct. And using it to put down someone else when its false just makes your google-fu look weak.

Gears has sold over 22 mill and earned over a billion....so yeah it is a billion earner.
 

dkpunk

Banned
Crakdown is developed by Realtime Worlds, they're third party. Fable was in development before Lionhead's acquisition.



Quality, it would still be as good, if not better due to PC controls (imo). Success? Who knows.



I don't really see how. It was ahead of its time in that it was lacking single player, just liek Titanfall, which was heavily criticized for the same reasons.



Someone had a post somewhere about how all the interesting projects Rare came up with weren't greenlit by Microsoft. I can't be bothered to find it.



If you purchase a company then you run the company, thus it's your fault.



Your list has no desire to see Microsoft's flaws. It goes both ways. This issue isn't black or white.
I would love to hear the things you like about MS as a game developer/publisher.
 
Is there a source for the $400 million price tag on the NFL stuff? Thats absurd to spend that much on NFL stuff. Can you watch NFL games with it. (Sorry, probably a stupid question, but the TV stuff in Xbone doesnt work in my country)
 
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