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[Shengar]

To be fair they've been advertising a hell out for WiiU recently in Japan, and you just saw the result.

Wow, they did? I mean, how much is "hell out"?

 

[Dr. Buni]

Wii U seemed to be a promising console at first, it is too bad most of its games are bombas.

Yeah and some people are like. Why is Persona 5 not for PS4? lol.

lol

 

[Glass Rebel]

I wonder if it'll be a much better idea for NCL to swap the console side of their business for a Steam like infracture and then create a handheld top notch enough to play all from the NES to the WiiU...

That's what I've been saying for like half a year, although I have compared it to iOS on iPhone/iPod/iPad. Something like this:

Handheld with hardware that acts as baseline
Console with stronger hardware that uprenders to 1080p and supports local multiplayer
every game cross-play

 

[MikeE21286]

A competitively priced new portable system which also plays all WiiU titles (digital), and has TV-out and controller support.

That.....that's a very interesting concept. Surely they could do that by 2015 from a visual perspective.

Backwards compatibility with WiiU and 3DS and fits both niches.

 

[Zen]

Mario 3D is seemingly:

- The best Mario game since Mario 64
- The best game of 2013 (amongst a strong list)

Expectations are high.

Wow, really wouldn't go that far. It's fun but it's only among the better Mario games.


But whatever.

 

[Amentallica]

I think the 3DS is the only identifiable handheld on the market. I don't know anyone that recognizes the PSP Vita. It's a shame, really. Sony should just stop focusing on the handheld. I know a bundle is expected with PS4 and Vita, but I don't have much faith.

 

[cafemomo]

In this case, it's not much to brag about.

Let me be happy

Spoiler

;_;

 

[Opiate]

Done in Japan? If it was selling 500 a week like the og Wii right now I would agree with you. Nintendo just needs to continue to bring out great games consistently like they just promised for the entire 2014 calendar year and the sales for Wii U will be more consistent.

Your bar for "done" is 500 units a week? This is an incredibly low bar. Far below the sales of other systems which died early deaths.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Herein lies a problem. As evidenced by Mario's less than stellar sales, people are really caring more about graphics than gameplay. Mario is, according to nearly everyone who played it, one of the greatest games they have played in a long while, yet it will be shunned. Why? It's a great game...it's just not the current cinematic stuff that floods the industry.

This is hilarious because SM3DW has awesome graphics and is the most graphically advanced Mario title released so far.

Your bar for "done" is 500 units a week? This is an incredibly low bar. Far below the sales of other systems which died early deaths.

Clearly he think Xbox is a huge success...

 

[Type-Zero]

Just posting because this is somehow unprecedented. Nintendo's home system ecosystem totally collapsed. I don't think many actually realize how crazy is this scenario. Even by considering Wii was based on casual audience - going from 100+ million system sold to....few millions is incredible.

It's obviously the combination of many factors, that reinforce each other negatively, including (a) price and little flexibility in dropping it; (b) lack of games; (c) long times between major releases; (d) total lack of third parties; (e) lack of proper online infrastructure; (f) lack of a major interest in the tablet, since tables are everywhere around us; (g) bad word of mouth by gamers and press; (h) lack of proper marketing; (i) confusion because of the name - people think it's a Wii extension somehow; (l) lack of innovation - the system doesn't bring anything interesting or different like, e.g. the Wiimote (this point is particularly incredible - coming from Nintendo especially).

Nintendo made all possible mistakes that could have been made - I can understand gambling on some of these factors, but hitting the negative target on each single of them is a total lack of proper R&D consumer research and system development. It's lack of professional attitude. Wii U was launched on the hype of the iPad and not considering the volatility and competition of is latter market, where everything gets copied really fast, consumer changes product every year and innovation vanish so quickly. Not a good basis for introducing a 5+ year home system. Nintendo's execs overestimated themselves because of DS and Wii's overwhelmingly successes - which, yes, were well targeted and constructed products, but that also benefitted from a certain fraction of coincidences and opportunism. Nevertheless, it's alright to recognize Nintendo's merits with DS and Wii - I think they offset what came from pure luck. Too bad this blinded them considerably afterwards.

Is this Iwata's responsibility? Yes it is, although it's cheap to say "it's all his fault". It's obvious people around him are as guilty as Iwata of being blinded toward the market's requirements. The reason of this failure is, beyond many other factors, that Iwata is a developer and not a businessman - and now this appears extremely clear. As much as he's really, extremely good in making teams below him produce high quality games and improve over time (yes, we can still say that, right?), he lacks skills for conducting proper business.

Ironically, what Nintendo need in reality is not to Iwata to step down, but a person to stay above Iwata and take care of the business part of the company. But I prefer not to give suggestions here.

Regardless of that, Iwata said that he would consider drastic measures for Wii U after Christmas figures..... There is little to do now, the tragic variables conditioning Wii U's ecosystem can be changed partially and the core of the disaster remain.

One possibility is to (a) offer a low price, tablet free Wii U package. Likely and doable, since we have the example of 2DS, which completely ditched the 3D effect. The price was very aggressive and marketed young audience - the one Nintendo always have been more successful, because of their IPs. This would help expanding the userbase and would maybe also bring back some of third parties multiplatform games (but I'm not betting on that).

Or (b), get rid of Wii U and announce another home system launching at the end of 2014. But this is less likely, for the simple reason they never be ready. They weren't even for Wii U's launch - a new system next year? LOL. Nintendo is a small company, but not as small to deviate the ship from the current path. However, they can take bigger and faster adjustments than other companies like introducing consistent modification of the current system.

Wii U clearly is a failure, but it would be nice to have it profitable eventually. In the meantime Nintendo will hopefully learn something and start thinking on the next home system.

Nail on the head, this really details what transpired and the outcome of nintendos deeds.

All I can say is that truthfully I am disappointed in nintendo, they had a false success with the wii and ds and it ultimately set them up for what we see now. They saw their previous success as a means to be lazy. They ignored the growing pains and issues the ps3 and 360 went through with hd, they gambled on the the flimsy ass casual market, and now its over. There is no short term solution no single surprise software can bail them out only a long term plan can do that. Mario was their trump card and they showed that hand too many times, they left their other ips to rot.They are not technically advanced either its a problem when people are clapping their hands when they can finally have the wiiu eshop wallet be shared with the 3ds. My true regret is that platinum games banked on them and now just like wonderful 101, bayonetta 2 will be dragged under also.

As for vita tv I expected more but it can be turned around to say its dead only on week two is ridiculous, people just want wii u to have a room mate in its coffin. The vita or vita tv can easily be bundled with the ps4 which is already happening for the UK.

The way I see it nintendo has no choice but to keep wii u alive and use it as a hyperbolic time chamber. Train up your ips, level up your technology and networking and form legitimate bounds with other developers. You can only do so much alone. It wasnt all saiyens that did all the work even Tien and Piccolo put in work in the cell saga.

 

[cyberheater]

It actually puts them in a rather tasty position for their next box, as in the next few years we'll see some fairly big advancements in low wattage/high power parts and they should be able to comfortably trump ps4 without breaking the bank.

Please don't start this rubbish all over again. It's painfully obvious that Nintendo are simply not interested in producing powerful systems. They had a fantastic opportunity with WiiU to produce a system that was easily twice as powerful as PS360 and they weren't interested. They managed to produce a machine where most of the multiplatform games perform better on 7 year older hardware.

 

[Byakuya769]

Maybe I shouldn't laugh at the shift to mobile in Japan...

 

[Vinnk]

Question for you- what games are the kids talking about getting if they aren't interested in SM3D World? I'm confused what would get them excited about the system right now if SM3D World isn't it.

2D Mario. Not kidding. And 2 boys said Pikmin 3 of all things. Wii Party came up a few times too and that is unsurprising, it's been advertised to hell and back.

I think thats part of the problem. The new bundles come with enough games to keep people content until Mario Kart.

 

[jj984jj]

Week of bombas. Though I don't think OP did too badly, it can still recover depending on how long its legs are. Vita SKUs (including two for Vita TV) really created a boost last week but it looks like it was another temporary effect, and Wii U is still fucked.

 

[DeaviL]

I don't know what's the saddest part.
The small Wii U bump, or the people who look like they're celebrating it.

 

[Frodo]

Vita would finally be King and we'd finally have a proper MH game and more games in general tbh

But it's nice to dream sometimes I guess

You might have missed the release of Monster Hunter 4. It is already out if you are interested.

 

[schuelma]

2D Mario. Not kidding. And 2 boys said Pikmin 3 of all things. Wii Party came up a few times too and that is unsurprising, it's been advertised to hell and back.

I think thats part of the problem. The new bundles come with enough games to keep people content until Mario Kart.

Yeah that is kind of what I was thinking- the bundles are great value, but the new buyer is getting 2d Mario and Wii Party U right in the box. Not an amazing incentive to pick up another Mario platformer at the same time.

 

[Doogdogg]

13./14. [WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2012.12.08} (¥5.985) - 18.072 / 638.755 <80-100%> (+42%)

Is there a bundle of this in Japan? It would certainly move during the December period.

 

[schuelma]

13./14. [WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2012.12.08} (¥5.985) - 18.072 / 638.755 <80-100%> (+42%)

Is there a bundle of this in Japan? It would certainly move during the December period.

Packed into basically every Wii U sold. Hence the discussion on the bundle actually hurting SM3D World adoption.

 

[mr_toa]

That.....that's a very interesting concept. Surely they could do that by 2015 from a visual perspective.

Indeed a very interesting concept - Gaffers have been pitching this, in various forms and guises, for the last year on the forum, it just makes more and more sense as we see the Wii U crumble.

 

[JoeM86]

Wii U seemed to be a promising console at first, it is too bad most of its games are bombas.

In sales, perhaps almost certainly. In quality? Hell no.

 

[soundahfekz]

Vita TV is the new PSP go?

more like the PSP go home you're drunk

 

[MikeE21286]

Indeed a very interesting concept - Gaffers have been pitching this, in various forms and guises, for the last year on the forum, it just makes more and more sense as we see the Wii U crumble.

Especially with Nintendo's Japanese centric concept from not only an online perspective, but a handheld and developer persepective.

It probably wouldn't do amazing in the west, but not terrible.

 

[DaBoss]

Now that I think about it (not trying to spin here), I feel like 3D World offset the drop for the Wii U. I expect at least a 50% drop next week.

 

[Tripon]

Jeez, wonder if this means that Nintendo tries to position the Wii U as a Western led device or just focus entirely on the 3DS in Japan even more.

 

[Scum]

That's what I've been saying for like half a year, although I have compared it to iOS on iPhone/iPod/iPad. Something like this:

Handheld with hardware that acts as baseline
Console with stronger hardware that uprenders to 1080p and supports local multiplayer
every game cross-play

I've also mentioned many times now that NoA & NoE also need to be given autonomy over their respective regions, set up similarly to NCL (in terms of dev teams) and allowed to help with software output. Something that should have happened years ago. NCL can't keep doing it all by themselves.

 

[Metallix87]

I've also mentioned many times now that NoA & NoE also need to be given autonomy over their respective regions, set up similarly to NCL (in terms of dev teams) and allowed to help with software output. Something that should have happened years ago. NCL can't keep doing it all by themselves.

Hopefully whoever takes over after Iwata is gone pushes for this.

 

[Doogdogg]

Packed into basically every Wii U sold. Hence the discussion on the bundle actually hurting SM3D World adoption.

Isn't it more important just to sell systems? If 2D Mario is selling, then they should sell as many systems as possible.

 

[godisturbed]

I was thinking the other day chances are Mario 3D World will sell LESS than 2 million globally. These numbers are backing that up. If their main man can't do it what hope have any of their games got? Combined with HD development costs the chances we see anything resembling F-Zero, Starfox or Metroid are slimming all the time. Time for a massive shakeup.

 

[Ty4on]

You are overestimating the cost of the PS4 and greating underestimating the cost of the Wii U.

Wii U has the worst cost-to-performance ratio seen in a long time. It's truely a marvel how badly designed and engineered the Wii U is at a cost-to-performance perspective.

I feel that is the biggest issue with it. It's so expensive, but doesn't do anything the PS3 doesn't and is apparently harder to code. Poor performance is ok if there is a reason, but the BOM is barely below that of the PS4 and a 480p screen is nowhere near expensive enough to explain that.

The faster they get rid of it like Sega with Saturn the better. The next console should at the very least be a fresh start that is cheap to manufacture and easy to make games for. Either X86 or ARM depending on power envelope to make porting games painless.

 

[Metallix87]

Isn't it more important just to sell systems? If 2D Mario is selling, then they should sell as many systems as possible.

Unfortunately, the system isn't selling well.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I've also mentioned many times now that NoA & NoE also need to be given autonomy over their respective regions, set up similarly to NCL (in terms of dev teams) and allowed to help with software output. Something that should have happened years ago. NCL can't keep doing it all by themselves.

Oh absolutely. It won't happen any time soon under Nintendo's current corporate structure and philosophy though.

 

[Father_Brain]

Man, I can't wait for that January NCL briefing now. Time for a complete change in management (though whether we get it is another story).

 

[cafemomo]

It's up to Sony to save the console market in Japan now.

I honestly don't see em screwing up though.

 

[Nekofrog]

I hope they remove all sharp objects from Iwata's office and home.

 

[Celine]

I was thinking the other day chances are Mario 3D World will sell LESS than 2 million globally.

By march 2014 the shipment will be more than 2M.

 

[shinra-bansho]

But when Wii U sales have been super low and we've heard for ages that it's because "the big guns" aren't out yet

The line of reasoning as always been somewhat odd, considering the system launched with NSMBU.

The reality that people didn't want to and likely still don't want to accept is that the big guns really aren't that big at their core. The same thing will likely happen with "wait for Mario Kart." (I expect it to sell reasonably well, but it will still underperform relative to the franchise history and isn't going to save anything.)

If not even Nintendo's big IPs can boost HW sales by at least a decent amount, what will?

There's the 100 billion yen question.

And now you can't sell your other games for more than 5 $, because people are used to it.

I've never understood this slippery slope argument, GTA: San Andreas goes to iOS and henceforth Take-Two will need to price GTA games at iOS prices?

The ideology that Wii U is so fundamentally flawed that no matter what software they would release for it tomorrow it still wouldn't make it sell well is quite ridiculous.

It's a product that seemingly has been produced without any particular target market, without basic market validation, and as such is very fundamentally flawed.

 

[Mpl90]

A competitively priced new portable system which also plays all WiiU titles (digital), and has TV-out and controller support.

By "competitively priced", you mean 199.99$ / 19,800 Yen? Because that's what I'd call a competitive price, but at the same time I think they could reach such pricing with a device as powerful as you described (a portable Wii U) thanks to a late 2016 launch, not in 2015.

 

[JoeM86]

Man, I can't wait for that January NCL briefing now. Time for a complete change in management (though whether we get it is another story).

And what would that actually accomplish? It'd put the company in further turmoil and potentially end up destroying it because the new person in charge may decide to capitulate to shareholders and go iOS or third party.

 

[RM8]

Holy cow at Vita TV, I thought it was finally going to make Vita get nicer numbers consistently. And well, WiiU's gonna WiiU. It's hard to not feel bad about these systems, lol.

 

[Vinnk]

Another strike against Nintendo is the amount of used WiiUs flooding the shops. This week there might actually be 40k new WiiU owners but if I was buying a WiiU in Japan right now I'd buy used. The consoles are mint and a lot cheaper.

This is what hurt the 360. Every time there was a big new title like Blue Dragon the gamers bought used consoles and then sold them back afterwards. This stuffed the used shop channels and drove the used price even lower due to more supply than demand. Its a vicious cycle.

Yes, I am comparing Nintendo to Microsoft in Japan. This is not a good thing.

However if they can have a good holiday (something Nintendo is traditionally strong at and Microsoft is not) they can clear out some of the used inventory giving people more incentive to buy new.

All hope is not lost, but if they screw up the next months and not stabilize their baseline BEFORE Mario Kart, then this same pattern is likely to repeat.

 

[joecanada]

Ouch @ SM3DW.
Ouch @ WIIU.
Ouch @ Vita.
Ouch @ FFXIII.

I hope SM3DW has long legs or else home console gaming is really dead in Japan. Why would PS4 sell over there?

Good point. so either Sony was right to funnel their stock to Europe / NA, or the delay won't matter because "everyone in Japan is/isn't waiting for ps4"
Guess they made the right call.

 

[Keyouta]

I think the biggest damage inflicted on the WiiU is that there is no reason for anyone to really get a WiiU, even if you're a Nintendo fan. The 3DS library is sufficient for most people, and we talk about the biggest mainstream titles on the WiiU - 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, Monster Hunter, and Smash Brothers.... guess what? Nintendo is offering all those experiences on the 3DS too, sometimes before it even hits the WiiU. It's really hard to build any sort of audience on a home console when everything people would want to play with it are available elsewhere on a system with more support from other developments, and there's nothing really unique or outstanding on the system itself.

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. They aren't offering anything really special for the Wii U. Why would I buy it when I can get the 3DS? All those franchises are on their handheld cheaper, and they still provide a full experience. It doesn't help that the Wii U titles look similar to the 3DS and Wii games.

The only game I can think of that is exclusive and unique on the Wii U is Wonderful 101, which isn't even developed by Nintendo. In the future there's X, and what else?

 

[Scum]

Hopefully whoever takes over after Iwata is gone pushes for this.

Oh absolutely. It won't happen any time soon under Nintendo's current corporate structure and philosophy though.

Force Iwata into doing it or demote him and find someone to do it. Either way, it needs to be done.

 

[opticalmace]

Another strike against Nintendo is the amount of used WiiUs flooding the shops. This week there might actually be 40k new WiiU owners but if I was buying a WiiU in Japan right now I'd buy used. The consoles are mint and a lot cheaper.

This is what hurt the 360. Every time there was a big new title like Blue Dragon the gamers bought used consoles and then sold them back afterwards. This stuffed the used shop channels and drove the used price even lower due to more supply than demand. Its a vicious cycle.

Yes, I am comparing Nintendo to Microsoft in Japan. This is not a good thing.

However if they can have a good holiday (something Nintendo is traditionally strong at and Microsoft is not) they can clear out some of the used inventory giving people more incentive to buy new.

All hope is not lost, but if they screw up the next months and not stabilize their baseline BEFORE Mario Kart, then this same pattern is likely to repeat.

I think this is reaching... gamers just don't care enough about the Wii U in totality IMO. It sold 20k units on the week of a fantastic 3D Mario game. I think it's dead in the water.

 

[RM8]

I also think PS4 has nothing to sell itself to Japan, but on the other hand, that's what I thought about the US launch too and look at what happened. PS4 might surprise us with strong Japanese numbers. Otherwise, yeah, Japan is handheld territory. Dual-screen, 3D handheld territory.

 

[Spieler Eins]

And what would that actually accomplish? It'd put the company in further turmoil and potentially end up destroying it because the new person in charge may decide to capitulate to shareholders and go iOS or third party.

So, clinging to a failing strategy instead of changing things up because things might get worse - which really is hardly possible at this point? ok...

 

[shinra-bansho]

And what would that actually accomplish? It'd put the company in further turmoil and potentially end up destroying it because the new person in charge may decide to capitulate to shareholders and go iOS or third party.

Iwata4lyfe, yo is clearly a much better plan.

This mentality is so bizarre.

 

[AranhaHunter]

I was interested in vita tv when they first announced it, however, I saw a chromecast at best buy and impulse bought it ($35 bucks, can't beat it) and now I have no interest in vita tv whatsoever.

 

[MoogleWizard]

[PS3] Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII <RPG> (Square Enix) {2013.11.21} (¥7.770) - 277.082 / NEW

Lowest FF sales ever? Not even the bad Mario numbers can wash the sweet taste of this well-deserved bomba away. I hope this will have some consequences for Toriyama and he will be kept as far away as possible from future installments. Way to ruin one of the most beloved franchises in gaming.