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Mel Brooks says political correctness is the death of comedy.

Ekai

Member
A friend linked this to me now and it feels so on point.


I love when people bs to fit their narrative. You're right. Mel is clearly talking about shitty comics only and only those dudes when talking about the PC crowd. Not the people that would have an aneurysm if Carlin was alive today and they went to his show. Of course a legend like Mel is talking about only the hacks that get affected and not the greats.

Therefore the person's comment I quoted was clearly directed at only hacks.

bb59_f-maxage-0_s-200x150.gif



It's nice when people purposely play dumb to make a point. We know who Mel is directing this towards, and that it encompasses great comics as well that get the shitstorm. So I have no idea why the guy you're speaking for would only target hacks,. Because if he was, it would make his comment completely pointless, irrelevant and dumb. And if he is also including the masters of comics would be affected in his post, then go back and read my last post :p


the pinnacle of comedy lmao

You're missing the point to get offended about my joke. Regardless, PC GONE MAD is such right-wing hogwash and tends to only ever pop up when righties get angry that they get criticized for saying shit like xyz minority doesn't deserve rights/should die/etc. etc. It's code for a bigot getting shit on for being a bigot and getting offended about it.
 

aparisi2274

Member
I don't see that. The movie plainly makes fun of racism. It's liberal use of the n word itself however has been in discussion pretty much since it came out.

This movie was written by Richard Pryor, and each and every time the n word was used in the movie, it was uttered by a character so deft and dumb that it just rolls off Sherif Bart's shoulder because he knew that they were simple folk who didn't know better.

I still stick by my original assessment and that is that Blazing Saddles is a classic movie, and one of the funniest comedies ever made!
 

Ekai

Member
This movie was written by Richard Pryor, and each and every time the n word was used in the movie, it was uttered by a character so deft and dumb that it just rolls off Sherif Bart's shoulder because he knew that they were simple folk who didn't know better.

I still stick by my original assessment and that is that Blazing Saddles is a classic movie, and one of the funniest comedies ever made!

....I don't think anyone argued otherwise?
 

Ogodei

Member
It's ironic because he's demonstrated some of the greatest savvy in approaching politically sensitive topics without crossing the line into actually being offensive. Blazing Saddles does a great job in plumbing race in America without hurting anyone.
 
A friend linked this to me now and it feels so on point.




You're missing the point to get offended about my joke. Regardless, PC GONE MAD is such right-wing hogwash and tends to only ever pop up when righties get angry that they get criticized for saying shit like xyz minority doesn't deserve rights/should die/etc. etc. It's code for a bigot getting shit on for being a bigot and getting offended about it.

But Mel Brooks isn't doing that...
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
It's ironic because he's demonstrated some of the greatest savvy in approaching politically sensitive topics without crossing the line into actually being offensive. Blazing Saddles does a great job in plumbing race in America without hurting anyone.

Dude made a comedy musical about HITLER. TWICE.

He knows what he's talking about, but he's also a very old man. I think he's done so much good in his career that he should get a pass on yelling at clouds.
 

Mesoian

Member
I would agree in saying that it's the death of easy comedy.

But Mel Brooks has never been in the business of easy comedy, even when the joke is as simple as, "I am a-sneeze, father of a-cheu."

But honestly, if political correctness is what's needed to bury shit like Bill Durham or Carlos Mencia, then yeah, let's get more politically correct.

Dude made a comedy musical about HITLER. TWICE.

He knows what he's talking about, but he's also a very old man. I think he's done so much good in his career that he should get a pass on yelling at clouds.

Even then, it's not that he made a musical about Hitler that was a success in 3 separate ages, it's that he did it splendidly, in a form that allows everyone to feel good about the good points and bad about the bad points. There's no mystery in the message, there's no ambiguity. It's smart fucking comedy that takes a position rather than hiding behind the idea of, "I can be as inflammatory as I want because it's just jokes!"
 

kubev

Member
Depends on the tone and the approach. One of my favorite episodes of Seinfeld is the episode in which Jerry's trying to date a Native American. It isn't the racism that makes the episode so funny, though. I just love how Jerry's attempts to avoid doing or saying anything that could offend her are completely undone by complete chance by both Kramer and the mailman. You can watch key scenes from the episode here, in case you're interested.

I'll also echo the support of Blazing Saddles. Bart's a great character in terms of how he deals with everything. As others in this thread have already mentioned, he takes the townspeople's slurs in stride, because he realizes that they don't know any better. One of my favorite scenes is when the old woman brings Bart an apple pie to apologize and to thank him for dealing with Mongo, only to come back a moment later to ensure that he won't mention to anyone the fact that she spoke to him.
 

Platy

Member
It's ironic because he's demonstrated some of the greatest savvy in approaching politically sensitive topics without crossing the line into actually being offensive. Blazing Saddles does a great job in plumbing race in America without hurting anyone.

Yeah, lots of his stuff would be called PC these days =P
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Depends on the tone and the approach. One of my favorite episodes of Seinfeld is the episode in which Jerry's trying to date a Native American. It isn't the racism that makes the episode so funny, though. I just love how Jerry's attempts to avoid doing or saying anything that could offend her are completely undone by complete chance by both Kramer and the mailman. You can watch key scenes from the episode here, in case you're interested.

I'll also echo the support of Blazing Saddles. Bart's a great character in terms of how he deals with everything. As others in this thread have already mentioned, he takes the townspeople's slurs in stride, because he realizes that they don't know any better. One of my favorite scenes is when the old woman brings Bart an apple pie to apologize and to thank him for dealing with Mongo, only to come back a moment later to ensure that he won't mention to anyone the fact that she spoke to him.


Crazy watching Seinfeld episodes nowadays and realizing which ones are actually Larry David events.
 

Geist-

Member
I feel like people who get mad at political correctness and people who apply political correctness to everything regardless of context don't understand what PC actually means. Like always, people going to extremes are ruining it for everyone else.
 

jstripes

Banned
"It's not good for comedy. Comedy has to walk a thin line, take risks," he said.

It's funny how he gets it and doesn't get it at the same time. It's always been about not crossing the line, but the line moves with the times. You just have to be more skilful with how you adapt to that. Robert Downy Jr. managed to tackle blackface, of all things, in the 21st century.
 
It's funny how he gets it and doesn't get it at the same time. It's always been about not crossing the line, but the line moves with the times. You just have to be more skilful with how you adapt to that. Robert Downy Jr. managed to tackle blackface, of all things, in the 21st century.
The area between the lines is shrinking, though.
 
I disagree. There's no white comic out there that could pitch Blazing Saddles to a studio today and get it greenlit. No matter who was attached as the writer.

Louis CK collaborating with Chris Rock on a Blazing Saddles-esque satire, you think not a single studio says yes to that? I think you're crazy.

The joke is wordplay and playing off a stereotype of Jewish women. Im sure this wouldnt fly today.

Adam Sandler got away with worse just a couple years ago in The Ridiculous 6, he's still working fine.
 

Eidan

Member
I'm still not entirely sure how political correctness is killing comedy, or what people want audiences to do if they just don't think something is funny. Keep their mouths shut?
 
It's funny how he gets it and doesn't get it at the same time. It's always been about not crossing the line, but the line moves with the times. You just have to be more skilful with how you adapt to that. Robert Downy Jr. managed to tackle blackface, of all things, in the 21st century.

Lazarus (Downey Jr.) would no longer fly now. He's hilarious though! Blazing Saddles would not be able to be made anymore, but it's one of the only movies that gets racism and comedy done well in one whole package. Hell, it's one of the best movies period. Blazing Saddles came out in '74. The '70s were so laden in racism, it's incredible that Brooks would put that movie out in the 70s but not now. The 70s were way worse literally, but in the PC age we live in now everything would be scrutinized. The media would destroy it, people would destroy it, and critics would destroy it. Some of you are saying how funny of a movie Blazing Saddles is, but if you were to see it for the first time today I doubt you'd say the same.

The line that you bring up isn't moving. It's getting smaller up to the point where comedy will be the same day in and day out. Bojack Horseman absolutely straddles this PC "line" with grace as well as I'd say Master of None. The thing with Master of None (I love the show, it's one of the best shows on TV ever) is that it's a minority making fun or poking fun of/at other minorities. We find this fine, which is why Bojack is funny when it takes on harder topics and makes fun of it; because it's animated and has talking animals. When a white person makes the same joke as say an Asian or an African American, it's perceived differently due to the background of their race even though it was done in the same tone/style.
 
I can't argue with Brooks, he's from a different time, but political correctness can make comedy seem less great. Of course he wouldn't want to joke about the holocaust, however I would argue that some people are fine with "offensive" jokes, as long as they're done well. A female comedian came to my old college years ago, and she was doing all these stereotypes, and nobody was given her a hard time for it. As long as it's funny, some people don't care about political correctness, I'd say.

Apparently Jerry Lewis starred and directed a movie about a clown at a Nazi Concentration camp. I'm not entirely sure if its a comedy, but the movie was so controversial and stupid that they never released it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Clown_Cried

This film has been known for a while actually. You can see it at a film library music from what I recall, but it won't actually get released for years now due to a deal Lewis made.
 
You guys know Family Guy still airs on primetime network television and half of that show is hacky stereotypes that were old when Mel Brooks was in diapers?

Is he?
Not a retort really, just didnt realize he was still even around.

He has a movie coming out just next month.
 
Blazing Saddles worked because it held nothing sacred, it wasn't just vicious toward a particular race or religion.

Few modern anti-pc comics get that, hence why theirs feels more offensive then funny.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why would anyone want to tell a holocaust joke?

It's not impossible to tell a holocaust joke. Due to my personal makeup a slavery joke should be too hard for me to take, but I've heard some that are actually funny.

But most should stay 1,000 miles away from them.
 
I agree with brooks. It is damaging to some types of comedy. Cant be too serious or sensitive with comedy. Well i guess you can, you just dont have to like that type of humor. But it shouldnt be so scrutinized and taken so deathly serious

He doesnt have a problem with the holocost being joked about, he just wouldnt do a bit on it.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Comedy is pretty much dead now, because a white guy can't make fun of Mexicans in front of a group of white guys without getting any criticism, like back in the good old days when we had slaves or whatever.

Now no one can think of any jokes because they're too busy nailing themselves to a cross.
 

Jyester

Member
My first instinct would be to agree and say that nothing is off limits, but I'm more curious to hear if comics actually are affected by pc culture. I've never seen blazing saddles, but Tarantino is still out there making movies where the N-word is used as if he has some sort of quote to fulfill. He catches flack for it on occasion, but it's certainly not stopping his movies from getting made. Probably because he's also a gifted writer and for the most part (from my white POV) gives proper consideration to context.

Who is affected by pc culture? I'll admit I rolled my eyes when one poster called another "gross" when they called Brooks a fossil. The dude's an old fuck. Think he cares? The knee jerk "disgusting" and "gross" posts always strike me as desperately wanting to appear righteous, but apart from keyboard warriors, does pc culture truly have that much of an impact, especially on smart comedy?

These days, Eddie Murphy can't go around and call everybody a faggot anymore, but that's probably for the better. So what are we taking about?
 

Esiquio

Member
Dude made a comedy musical about HITLER. TWICE.

He knows what he's talking about, but he's also a very old man. I think he's done so much good in his career that he should get a pass on yelling at clouds.

...okay, that's nice that you think he should get a pass because he's a national treasure, but he isn't yelling at here clouds, man.

Mel Brooks is a legit guy.

Edit: To the poster above me. I would recommend watching Blazing Saddles, it holds up for the most part and has a variety of comedy types in it, from shock, slapstick, high-brow, etc.
 
These days, Eddie Murphy can't go around and call everybody a faggot anymore, but that's probably for the better. So what are we taking about?

Dave Chappelle made insensitive jokes about transgender people in a special released in The Year Of Our Lord 2017 and he was ostracized, never to find work again, another legend brought asunder by the PC hordes who have ruined everything.

Just kidding he's doing sold out shows across the country
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
My first instinct would be to agree and say that nothing is off limits, but I'm more curious to hear if comics actually are affected by pc culture. I've never seen blazing saddles, but Tarantino is still out there making movies where the N-word is used as if he has some sort of quote to fulfill. He catches flack for it on occasion, but it's certainly not stopping his movies from getting made. Probably because he's also a gifted writer and for the most part (from my white POV) gives proper consideration to context.

Who is affected by pc culture? I'll admit I rolled my eyes when one poster called another "gross" when they called Brooks a fossil. The dude's an old fuck. Think he cares? The knee jerk "disgusting" and "gross" posts always strike me as desperately wanting to appear righteous, but apart from keyboard warriors, does pc culture truly have that much of an impact, especially on smart comedy?

These days, Eddie Murphy can't go around and call everybody a faggot anymore, but that's probably for the better. So what are we taking about?

People are talking past each other because everybody has their own ideas about what any of this means and nobody is providing examples of PC culture suppressing comedic evolution.
 
Nothing is off limits in comedy. It's either all or nothing. Jokes are either good or bad. There is humor in everything and it helps us cope with the reality of a situation, that said timing, not just comedic timing but the timing of knowing when a joke is not right for the current(for the time, not necessarily reffering to now) political/social climate is important.
 

appaws

Banned
Why would anyone want to tell a holocaust joke?

For a true comic, nothing is out, everything is made fun of.

George Carlin is the prime example.

Yes. Fuck PC. Mel Brooks fucking rules. Life is fucking tears and pain. You have to laugh at everything or you just go nuts.

I am just thinking of the incredible Howard Stern/Gilbert Gottfried bits which involved joking about the holocaust, Amy Hekerling's nanny, and Rabbi Gottfried segments.

Or Chris Rock/Eddie Murphy joking about slavery.
 

Jyester

Member
People are talking past each other because everybody has their own ideas about what any of this means and nobody is providing examples of PC culture suppressing comedic evolution.
You succinctly put what I thought to be the case in this thread. I'm left to wonder what Brooks was thinking of.

Dave Chappelle made insensitive jokes about transgender people in a special released in The Year Of Our Lord 2017 and he was ostracized, never to find work again, another legend brought asunder by the PC hordes who have ruined everything.

Just kidding he's doing sold out shows across the country
That's dandy. It sounds like you're agreeing with my larger point. The part about Eddie was the only thing I could think of when it comes to society's change having an effect on comedy. Something like Raw probably wouldn't be released in the same form today. Which is for the better, because while gay jokes are certainly not off limits, Eddie's were cheap and mean-spirited, because this was still acceptable at the time.
 

Toxi

Banned
Take those risks then. Nobody is stopping you.

If your joke falls flat though, don't blame the audience. As a comedian, you have to earn those laughs. This is how it has been in every age.
 

Audioboxer

Member
Nothing is off limits in comedy. It's either all or nothing. Jokes are either good or bad. There is humor in everything and it helps us cope with the reality of a situation, that said timing, not just comedic timing but the timing of knowing when a joke is not right for the current(for the time, not necessarily reffering to now) political/social climate is important.

Jokes/comedy are subjective. Objectively some jokes might be that bad you'll struggle to find even 10 people to laugh at them, but for the most part comedy is about consenting yourself to listen to/explore it and then absenting yourself if you don't like it/can't handle it/it isn't to your tastes. Criticising it as you stop buying/watching/attending is one thing, it's what follows if others do not agree with your criticism that erupts into accusations/battles/name-calling.

The problem in the modern eras isn't comedians not doing dark/risky things, maybe outside of one or two examples, as many still do. It's the aggressive and hostile push to absent others by force/accusations/name-calling from enjoying comedians/comedy/jokes/satire you do not like. In the social media age, it's so easy to find out what others like/enjoy/laugh at and then target them for not thinking like you. That's part technological and generational change. People find it harder than ever to accept being around people who think differently than them as we're not just talking hearing opinions in your local community and school now, but if you go online you're potentially around hundreds if not thousands of people subjecting you to their opinions on comedy/comedians/movies and satire. As I briefly mentioned earlier throw in the clickbait/only read the headline generation and the media stroke some insane fires of anger at times too on the internet/in social media.

Since comedians and satirical social/political takes have existed, people have taken offence and called for protest/shutdown/accused of crime/damage/corrupting the youth. In earlier times it was mostly the conservatives, or right-wing, getting hot and bothered about religious jokes, or about sex/violence/swearing/crudeness. I think from above largely thanks to technology now more people than ever (of all political leanings) just can't find a way to navigate life without being alarmed or frustrated they are coming across many others who enjoy satire/humour they don't, even although they know themselves comedy is often subjective. It's very easy to differentiate genuine comedians/jokes/satire from actual ill-intent, but more often than not now that doesn't matter. Criticism devolves from "I don't think that joke is funny and here is why" to "The person who told this joke is a literal piece of shit and I know their personality and morality is truly broken and fuck them".

The greatest irony of all is humour/laughing is natures anti-depressant, so if you truly don't find yourself ever smiling or laughing, find a way to without feeling you're some criminal for laughing at a politically incorrect joke every now and then. Some of the worst things in life, whether it be challenges, health, social inequality, death, violence and so on get satirised to try and help us deal with how depressing real life is. Not everyone can laugh at their woes, but some people try to find a way to when they're down and out because if they can't put a smile on their face even for 5 minutes once a year they'll go insane. Or if you're beyond jokes now as an "adult", find a way to laugh as being grumpy all the time will not only make you more depressed in life, but those around you will no doubt find your company difficult. I do wage many on the internet who act like they've never laughed at an offensive joke do it quite often by themselves or in close company with friends. Hypocrisy has always been rife since the internet kicked off.
 

The Hermit

Member
The point of comedy is to subvert the horror that mankind causes, so it helps us understand and improve as a species.

When this is denied, we stop assimilating that.
 

Toxi

Banned
The point of comedy is to subvert the horror that mankind causes, so it helps us understand and improve as a species.

When this is denied, we stop assimilating that.
This is the sort of didactic shit comedians have historically poked fun at.

Comedy as a concept does not have that point. A comedic work may have that point, but comedy is very much agnostic in its "point".
 

Lunar15

Member
Part of the issue is that back in the 80's and 90's when irreverent and risky comedy was taking of, there also wasn't the same level of connectivity between groups of people that we have now thanks to the internet. So you could have things like Apu in the Simpsons (a pretty awful caricature) without hearing much feedback from Indian Americans who felt jilted by it. Nowadays, one tweet, re-tweeted enough, can have the same voice and reach as a comedian. Marginalized voices are getting out there, and they're getting loud.

I think people thought everyone was cool with certain jokes, but now that we're all learning that it isn't the case, there's pushback. Comedians shouldn't take offense to that. They should understand and adapt. It's possible to be funny without being mean or reductive to people who can't help their own situations.

The problem isn't the complaints, it's the reaction. Comedy always has to take in-mind the audience. In the past, they weren't hearing from the full audience, now they are.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Nothing has done more damage to comedy than the introduction of "punching up/down" to the discourse.
How will anyone think of anything funny when they'll get criticism from gays for making fun of gays? What else is there that's even funny except making fun of gays????
 

Toxi

Banned
It's also possible to accept that not all audiences will be satisfied and to just tailor your comedy to a specific audience and ignore the reactions from the rest. Which is basically what comedians have been doing since time eternal.
 
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