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[64bitmodels]

Anyway, this whole discussion is bizarre, I thought people were happy with their Series consoles and the current state of the Xbox ecosystem? Apparently not.

Phil keeps waxing poetic about how 'when everyone plays, we all win'. He has clear plans of taking Xbox the third party route. Naturally such a discussion of how Xbox would go third party ensues....

going an OEM route while publishing on Steam and Playstation (and still offering Xcloud) is the #1 best solution for them.

Xbox players get access to the full PC catalogue of games (as an update meaning that series X/S owners don't even need to buy a new computer), gamepass is put on Steam meaning a far wider audience gets the convenience of being able to subscribe easily & they are no longer pressured to buy up publishers to compete when they aren't competing anymore.

 

[Klayzer]

I think that's seperate from what the OP was suggesting, which I believe was that Xbox hardware becomes more like PCs. I don't think they were taking about Gamepass on other devices.

To address your point specifically, it would work for PC, but doing it for mobile, PlayStation or Switch would result in Microsoft paying royalties to the platform holder.

You'd think the hardware sales can't keep declining year after year, but maybe I'm overly optimistic.

Yeah, im curious what declining hardware number it would take, before Microsoft threw in towel on hardware. Personally, I don't think it would happen.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

How are you going to upgrade it?

PC gaming requires some know how. You’d spend $$$ on a piece of hardware and know nothing about it.

Doesn’t make sense to me.

The same way you upgrade your Steam Deck. You don't. You wait for the next revision. So in other words: the same way you 'upgrade' your PS5.

We want a hybrid after all.

(yes, I know it's possible to swap storage, RAM, etc. on the Deck but not a lot of people do that).

 

[SmokedMeat]

Xbox players get access to the full PC catalogue of games (as an update meaning that series X/S owners don't even need to buy a new computer), gamepass is put on Steam meaning a far wider audience gets the convenience of being able to subscribe easily & they are no longer pressured to buy up publishers to compete when they aren't competing anymore.

No successful storefront is going to let Game Pass in, and lose third party royalties due to Game Pass cannibalizing sales.

It’s not going to be on PlayStation, EShop, or Steam ever.

 

[SNG32]

PC gaming requires some know how. You’d spend $$$ on a piece of hardware and know nothing about it.

Doesn’t make sense to me.

Can you upgrade a steam deck? It’s pc gaming it plays games. Not every pc player wants elite specs look at the steam hardware survey as long as Microsoft’s realeases a gpu that’s popular in those parameters they should be good.

Yeah, im curious what declining hardware number it would take, before Microsoft threw in towel on hardware. Personally, I don't think it would happen.

I really don’t think they care to sell consoles. Phil has been saying he wants gamepass to go beyond Xbox consoles and to every device. I don’t know why this is being ignored.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

No successful storefront is going to let Game Pass in, and lose third party royalties due to Game Pass cannibalizing sales.

It’s not going to be on PlayStation, EShop, or Steam ever.

Steam is already offering EA Play and they said that they would like to see Gamepass there. It's money.

Valve “more than happy” to help Microsoft bring PC Game Pass to Steam

The ball is well and truly in Microsoft’s court.

www.theverge.com

 

[DenchDeckard]

The thing is op. Is a customer can just build a small form factor pc themselves and run it all.....with windows 11....which they just let people do now

 

[Thirty7ven]

Running fully fledged windows is one thing, but something like SteamOS? That's absurd.

Anyway, this whole discussion is bizarre, I thought people were happy with their Series consoles and the current state of the Xbox ecosystem? Apparently not.

Sales numbers and CFO comments have even the most ardent fanboys scrambling. Twitter has been on fire, they need good news quick.

 

[M1chl]

Just losses (even greater ones, than they already have) in that approach

 

[64bitmodels]

The thing is op. Is a customer can just build a small form factor pc themselves and run it all.....with windows 11....which they just let people do now

The bolded is the issue.

 

[SNG32]

The thing is op. Is a customer can just build a small form factor pc themselves and run it all.....with windows 11....which they just let people do now

Ok so that’s fine but not everyone wants to build one.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Steam is already offering EA Play and they said that they would like to see Gamepass there. It's money.

Valve “more than happy” to help Microsoft bring PC Game Pass to Steam

The ball is well and truly in Microsoft’s court.

www.theverge.com

Is that EA play or EA play pro? Only one has day 1 releases.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I’m more

Ok so that’s fine but not everyone wants to build one.

Then buy one that has the insides that do what you want. But that comes at an extra cost for the ignorant consumer.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Is that EA play or EA play pro? Only one has day 1 releases.

I don't know but what difference does it make? It's Microsoft that want to put Gamepass (as it is now so day one releases included) on Steam and Vale is more than happy to welcome them.

 

[pasterpl]

Nah but like I said the series x isn’t a full blown windows pc out the box

They have got surface product line for this. Even gaming ones with GeForce 3070 on board.

 

[Klayzer]

Can you upgrade a steam deck? It’s pc gaming it plays games. Not every pc player wants elite specs look at the steam hardware survey as long as Microsoft’s realeases a gpu that’s popular in those parameters they should be good.

I really don’t think they care to sell consoles. Phil has been saying he wants gamepass to go beyond Xbox consoles and to every device. I don’t know why this is being ignored.

Well, it won't be Phil's decision about hardware. That's going to come from their executive board.

 

[64bitmodels]

Steam is already offering EA Play and they said that they would like to see Gamepass there. It's money.

Valve “more than happy” to help Microsoft bring PC Game Pass to Steam

The ball is well and truly in Microsoft’s court.

www.theverge.com

Valve's already having trouble getting gamepass to work on Steam Deck due to the differing OS. Being able to take one of the biggest selling points of the ROG Ally away from them via Gamepass support on Steam would be a major boon for the product and it would attract many potential buyers too. Of course they're going to be all in for PC gamepass. Not like Microsoft will buy up all the big 3P releases day one.

Man. Sounds like console yuppies tired of being console yuppies, but not good enough to be PC elite.

we really shouldn't be gatekeeping PC. While for me and many other people a fully fledged PC is the way to go, for some people they want some of the freedom with a bit of the simplicity. Hence why you see so many people port begging for SteamOS 3.5 on general gaming PCs.

 

[Godot25]

It's not that hard for next-gen
Keep Series X style SKU as a home console
Transform Series S SKU into handheld form

And I know that means that handheld would cost almost as much as "high-end" but since it would be tied to 1080p (probably?) screen, users would not care.

 

[Dorfdad]

I don’t know why Microsoft hasn’t considered merging the pc/console experience together sort of like what Alienware did years ago or what the steambox did. Obviously they could make better specs and offer different skus of prebuilts. To me this sounds much better instead of a gimped console.

Said this before as well. They need to differentiate themselves from the competition. It’s super easy for them to do this as well with software.

modify the XBOX style system and allow user replaceable Nvme drives / native mouse and keyboard support a full featured browser. Let people buy it as a 500.00 cobsole and gaming pc. You immediately open up exclusives that the consoles can’t get.

As an evil corporation you can force all usable apps and pc games to be sold through your windows store driving forced adoption of that service.

So unlike a steam machine which is Linux based and has problems with a lot of games you get a full windows machine designed for gaming and light pc duties! I’d imagine in colleges etc this would be a big seller.

 

[SNG32]

They have got surface product line for this. Even gaming ones with GeForce 3070 on board.

No they don’t unless you’re talking about that egpu bullshit. I know they were suppose release one but never did.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Steam is already offering EA Play and they said that they would like to see Gamepass there. It's money.

Valve “more than happy” to help Microsoft bring PC Game Pass to Steam

The ball is well and truly in Microsoft’s court.

www.theverge.com

EA Play isn’t offering hundreds of third party games. That’s a big difference.

Microsoft would have to pay money to Valve to compensate for lost royalties, on top of the money they already pay to publishers. If it made sense to do so, we’d already have seen it.

Game Pass on Steam would also render the Windows Store completely obsolete. Is that something Microsoft is cool with? I doubt it.

 

[kiphalfton]

What would be the point then? Just build a PC.

Yeah... but then you wouldn't have the constraints of make believe system like what OP is describing.

Pfft, why would you want a PC when you can have something like that?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

EA Play isn’t offering hundreds of third party games. That’s a big difference.

Microsoft would have to pay money to Valve to compensate for lost royalties, on top of the money they already pay to publishers. If it made sense to do so, we’d already have seen it.

Game Pass on Steam would also render the Windows Store completely obsolete.

I don't see how that's a problem if it's just built-in integration of Microsoft Xbox app on Steam platform.

 

[twilo99]

Having the xbox app on my PC essentialy makes it an "xbox" and all game saves, etc. syncs with my xss so that tag they have "play anywhere" kinda holds true.

What they should do is a xbox branded handheld and maybe even an xbox branded gaming PC

 

[SNG32]

Said this before as well. They need to differentiate themselves from the competition. It’s super easy for them to do this as well with software.

modify the XBOX style system and allow user replaceable Nvme drives / native mouse and keyboard support a full featured browser. Let people buy it as a 500.00 cobsole and gaming pc. You immediately open up exclusives that the consoles can’t get.

As an evil corporation you can force all usable apps and pc games to be sold through your windows store driving forced adoption of Yeah... but then you wouldn't have the constraints of make believe system like what OP is describing.

Pfft, why would you want a PC when you can have something like that?

Yeah... but then you wouldn't have the constraints of make believe system like what OP is describing.

Pfft, why would you want a PC when you can have something like that?

A gaming laptop has constraints people still buy them

The steam deck has constraints people still buy them

A ps5 has constraints people still buy them.

 

[Woopah]

Yeah, im curious what declining hardware number it would take, before Microsoft threw in towel on hardware. Personally, I don't think it would happen.

They would at the very least look to go to the end of the generation and release a console for the next one. If the Series successor performs worse than the Series, they might exit the hardware market after that.

 

[pasterpl]

No they don’t unless you’re talking about that egpu bullshit. I know they were suppose release one but never did.

This exist

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/configure/Surface-Laptop-Studio-2/8rqr54krf1dz?crosssellid=&selectedColor=&ef_id=_k_EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE_k_&OCID=AIDcmmydqkurjc_SEM__k_EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE_k_&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE

 

[SmokedMeat]

I don't see how that's a problem if it's just built-in integration of Microsoft Xbox app on Steam platform.

Unless I’m misunderstanding you, Valve losing royalties from sales by having Xbox’s Game Pass on Steam is a problem. It’s why Sony or Nintendo would never allow it on their hardware.

They’d have to work out some sort of deal. There’s a reason why it hasn’t happened, imo.

 

[SNG32]

This exist

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/configure/Surface-Laptop-Studio-2/

It says sorry page can’t be found.

 

[Ozriel]

They probably considered that and dropped it after realizing they’d lose all sales to Steam and lose subscription revenue for online play.

Not to mention they’d be making highly subsidized PCs that would be competing with their partner OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc.

Poor idea

 

[pasterpl]

It says sorry page can’t be found.

Fixed it with correct url

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/configure/Surface-Laptop-Studio-2/8rqr54krf1dz?crosssellid=&selectedColor=&ef_id=_k_EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE_k_&OCID=AIDcmmydqkurjc_SEM__k_EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE_k_&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE

Summary​

Surface Laptop Studio 2​

£3,369.00 incl. VAT

• 13th Gen Intel® Core™ i7
• 64GB RAM
• 1TB SSD
• NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4060

 

[64bitmodels]

This exist

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/configure/Surface-Laptop-Studio-2/8rqr54krf1dz?crosssellid=&selectedColor=&ef_id=_k_EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE_k_&OCID=AIDcmmydqkurjc_SEM__k_EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE_k_&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuuPs8_vuggMVzpJQBh2XQAcbEAAYASAAEgLKzPD_BwE

that's over 2 grand euros for a fucking laptop.

what OP is suggesting is to turn all those 500 dollar locked down console boxes into PCs. Note the 500 dollars.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

They’d have to work out some sort of deal. There’s a reason why it hasn’t happened, imo.

It will happen, they just need to agree on the split. First party is a no-brainer, third party like you've mentioned is trickier.

 

[64bitmodels]

Game Pass on Steam would also render the Windows Store completely obsolete. Is that something Microsoft is cool with? I doubt it.

Nobody would use it without Game Pass and the app is pretty bugged.

There are probably more people on Steam who are interested in Game Pass as an Idea but would also never want to touch the Xbox app for many reasons.

Either way it's the best way for them to make profit. Either that or they can increase the price of the Series X to something they can make a profit on.

 

[King Dazzar]

Maybe when MS buy Steam!

 

[Pelta88]

Nah but like I said the series x isn’t a full blown windows pc out the box

if it’s a box that’s a PC then they might be good. PC gaming is growing year by year. If they can make a great experience for people who want to tap into pc gaming without breaking the bank to crazy I don’t see the issue.

They’re already selling units at a $200 per console. Essentially, you’re suggesting they sell for a greater loss via pc?

Also that “PC gaming is growing year by year” is pr. The market is littered with companies that either failed or are at a standstill, because they weren’t able to tap into that growth. XB is part of that conversation.

 

[Topher]

They probably considered that and dropped it after realizing they’d lose all sales to Steam and lose subscription revenue for online play.

Not to mention they’d be making highly subsidized PCs that would be competing with their partner OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc.

Poor idea

It won't even be subsidized though since, as you say, folks will just continue buying through Steam. So selling this thing at $500 is a pipe dream. It would be $1000 at least. Only other way is to lock Windows down and only allow installs from the Windows store like their S version of windows.

Maybe when MS buy Steam!

 

[pasterpl]

that's over 2 grand euros for a fucking laptop.

what OP is suggesting is to turn all those 500 dollar locked down console boxes into PCs. Note the 500 dollars.

I understand, but at the same time my first point stands, they are sort of already doing this, I used to play xcloud games on my surface pro x and surface x, probably work well on any other surface device.

OP it wouldn’t make sense for MS to do this unless it would be very limited. Maybe they can strike a deal with steam for streaming to be included in gamepass. Lots of my steam library wouldn’t be compatible with Xbox hardware so that’s why I think streaming is a way to go in this scenario.

 

[kiphalfton]

A gaming laptop has constraints people still buy them

The steam deck has constraints people still buy them

A ps5 has constraints people still buy them.

Gaming laptop doesn't really sacrifice anything, other than potentially price : performance.

And a steam deck and PS5 cost >50% less than a typical gaming laptop... so yeah there's obviously going to be constraints.

What you're proposing in the original post is no different than a prebuilt gaming PC. And what does prebuilt gaming PC's have kids, well it has shitty no-name parts (mobo, PSU, ram, case, etc.) and generally the cheapest AIB graphics card. All at a nice premium.

So yeah there's definitely constraints, and every body would probably agree the Alienware desktops were garbage. And that it's better to build your own PC, than own something that has some companies logo on the case.

 

[SNG32]

Gaming laptop doesn't really sacrifice anything, other than potentially price : performance.

And a steam deck and PS5 cost >50% less than a typical gaming laptop... so yeah there's obviously going to be constraints.

What you're proposing in the original post is no different than a prebuilt gaming PC. And what does prebuilt gaming PC's have kids, well it has shitty no-name parts (mobo, PSU, ram, case, etc.) and generally the cheapest AIB graphics card. All at a nice premium.

So yeah there's definitely constraints, and every body would probably agree the Alienware desktops were garbage. And that it's better to build your own PC, than own something that has some companies logo on the case.

But Microsoft is different they already got the brand in place for gaming. An Xbox based pc there’s are a lot that would jump in based off the brand. Alienware no one really knew what the fuck Alienware was unless you were into pc gaming.

 

[64bitmodels]

And what does prebuilt gaming PC's have kids, well it has shitty no-name parts (mobo, PSU, ram, case, etc.) and generally the cheapest AIB graphics card. All at a nice premium.

I mean, does the Series X have any of that? Seriously?

it's a well built piece of hardware and it's pretty reliable (unlike a certain other MS console). Not modular but even then, it has an X86 processor so it could easily run Windows 11.

 

[64bitmodels]

It would be $1000 at least.

with that 3 year old hardware?

at best, maybe 800 bucks. And it could still retain the 500 buck price point if Gamepass were put on steam.

 

[Ozriel]

that's over 2 grand euros for a fucking laptop.

what OP is suggesting is to turn all those 500 dollar locked down console boxes into PCs. Note the 500 dollars.

They certainly wouldn’t be $500 anymore.

But Microsoft is different they already got the brand in place for gaming. An Xbox based pc there’s are a lot that would jump in based off the brand. Alienware no one really knew what the fuck Alienware was unless you were into pc gaming.

seems like a surefire way to kill their business

 

[Topher]

with that 3 year old hardware?

at best, maybe 800 bucks. And it could still retain the 500 buck price point if Gamepass were put on steam.

For this to be worth the effort for Microsoft to even bother? $1000 minimum. Game Pass ain't going to subsidize that. That's why none of this will ever happen.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I don't know but what difference does it make? It's Microsoft that want to put Gamepass (as it is now so day one releases included) on Steam and Vale is more than happy to welcome them.

Because day 1 games will mean a lot of revenue/profit lost.

You think steam would suddenly get a cut of all gp subscribers??

 

[Ozriel]

And it could still retain the 500 buck price point if Gamepass were put on steam.

Consoles are subsidized because the platform owners know they’ll recoup the costs and make profits from game sales, royalties and subscription revenue.

Make a subsidized PC and people like you will happpily install Steam on it and buy the games exclusively on Steam. Zero benefits to MS, zero revenue from subscriptions for online play.

Gamepass would have to go up in price to cater for Steam support. Currently devs know they can take MS money for PC GamePass and still get retail revenue from Steam. MS would have to pay a LOT more money to secure games for a GamePass on Steam…and that cost gets transferred to the customer.

 

[kiphalfton]

But Microsoft is different they already got the brand in place for gaming. An Xbox based pc there’s are a lot that would jump in based off the brand. Alienware no one really knew what the fuck Alienware was unless you were into pc gaming.

I just don't see how they could make it work, not only from a money standpoint (gaming PC's are expensive) but also from a marketing standpoint.

People who are interested in getting into PC gaming may dip their feet in the prebuilt pool, but after that initial investment it's very likely they'll have to pick up PC building skills (since even prebuilt PC's are relatively modular, and you can swap out parts without buying a whole new prebuilt PC). Which may eventually lend itself to them building their own PC from scratch. Which at that point, say bye-bye to a potential sale of a future Microsoft branded hybrid machine.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Xbox users will get nostalgia from the original Xbox I think Microsoft and Xbox is in a “business” phase, they have all the pieces, Xbox live, gamer first culture, aaa games. When I think of Xbox past 360 it’s a company trying to build things other than games.

 

[rodrigolfp]

OP wants MS to allow full Windows and/or Linux to be installed on Xbox Series. Not impossible but very unlikely.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Because day 1 games will mean a lot of revenue/profit lost.

You think steam would suddenly get a cut of all gp subscribers??

No. But the model between Valve and Microsoft can be different than between Microsoft and customer.

Valve can take x % cut from Microsoft per game downloaded and played for more than 2 hours, for example.