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Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor |OT| One Title to rule them all

Edmond Dantès;131728202 said:
Celebrimbor derived much of his knowledge of ring forging from Sauron, but it must be remembered that all of Sauron's knowledge was derived from Aulë while he served under him before been seduced by Melkor. It is therefore doubtful that Sauron could have surpassed a being far more knowledgeable than him in the skill of ring forging and that such knowledge was imparted to Celebrimbor. Furthermore, Mandos had foresight beyond all save Eru himself. In Tolkien's mind he was analogous to Heimdall and Osiris, an all-seeing judge of the dead, who knew the fates of all beings of Arda. Deceiving him would be futile, appealing to him only Luthien did successfully. Thus, Mandos would have to be aware of Celebrimbor and his actions.

Cheers for the explanation. I suppose heroes with blatant sorcerous powers aren't a comfortable fit for this setting.

Luckily, I won't be thinking about this overmuch while fending off the hordes of the red eye.
 

Joco

Member
War in the North is awesome loot and co-op action though! Can't say much good about Conquest.

I had War in the North on PS3 but encountered a game-breaking bug on my two playthrough attempts where after talking to Radagast the quest log wouldn't update and it was impossible to advance any further in the game. Never got patched to my knowledge either, so never being able to complete the game I obviously never cared for it.
 

Lord Phol

Member
I had War in the North on PS3 but encountered a game-breaking bug on my two playthrough attempts where after talking to Radagast the quest log wouldn't update and it was impossible to advance any further in the game. Never got patched to my knowledge either, so never being able to complete the game I obviously never cared for it.

Ah that's rough, Snowblind games tend to be quite buggy unfortunetly, but they are some of the best co-op experiences I've ever had. I've managed to complete it 3 times so far (2 on PS3, 1 on PC) without encountering those bugs. Would have loved some DLC for it but it seems Snowblind got "shut down" soon after, which explains the abscence of post-release support/patches.

Last I heard Snowblind was pretty much merged into Monolith.
 

ys45

Member
I had War in the North on PS3 but encountered a game-breaking bug on my two playthrough attempts where after talking to Radagast the quest log wouldn't update and it was impossible to advance any further in the game. Never got patched to my knowledge either, so never being able to complete the game I obviously never cared for it.

I encountered the exact same bug , you are way more patient than I am I just stoped playing after this and sold the game, I was so mad at the game .
 

Grief.exe

Member
Controls are extremely complex - all four face buttons and triggers do something, and there are 3 separate actions mapped to pressing two face buttons simultaneously. D-Pad does important stuff too. It's crazy at first, although you adjust with time

That is very interesting, I'm glad this game actually has some depth.
 

Rokam

Member
My new tv doesn't come in till Wednesday, the question is whether to play this on the 22 inch I'm currently playing my PS4 games on or wait... A WHOLE DAY.
 
Edmond Dantès;131725640 said:
In terms of Mandos and Manwë; Celebrimbor unlike Glorfindel and Finrod for example, was not to be reembodied, but to remain in the Halls of Mandos for a very long time. Thus we must ask, could Celebrimbor have escaped the Halls of Mandos? Absolutely not. No being escaped the judgment of Mandos. Even Melkor was executed at his hands, and his spirit banished in the Void. The next point to consider; could Celebrimbor project his fëa (spirit) via some sort of sorcery? It seems very unlikely that he would possess an ability that he could make use of under Mandos' nose. Finally, if not via deception, what about instruction? Could Talion have been an alternative to the Istari? Instead of placing the fate of Middle-earth solely in the hands of the Istari, the Valar decided to allow Celebrimbor to aid Talion in an attempt to further weaken Sauron's forces. Interesting idea, but it certainly is in opposition to the idea that the Istari were to guide the Peoples of Middle-earth via council rather than brute force. What Talion is doing can only be described as brute force, guided by a lust for revenge.

So, when an elf dies, his spirit is called to the Halls of Mandos. I remember reading somewhere that the fëa may be able to resist Námo's call and remain in Middle-Earth. Wouldn't this be a possible explanation for Celebrimbor's existence as a wraith? But then again, my memory may be completely wrong since I haven't actually read the History of Middle-Earth yet.
 

TaKeRx

Member
Do I need to know anything LOTR to understand the story. I've never watched them. That's the only thing holding me back.
 
Controls are extremely complex - all four face buttons and triggers do something, and there are 3 separate actions mapped to pressing two face buttons simultaneously. D-Pad does important stuff too. It's crazy at first, although you adjust with time.

I know you listed it as a potential con, but that sounds exciting to me.
 

DOWN

Banned
Do I need to know anything LOTR to understand the story. I've never watched them. That's the only thing holding me back.
It's standalone. While much of the game is intended to utilize the lore, it doesn't take place in direct connection to another book or movie in the the franchise. You are free to jump in, though I'd bet watching The Fellowship of the Ring Extended Version would be an awesome primer, and the trilogy is a film must when you get a chance.

My new tv doesn't come in till Wednesday, the question is whether to play this on the 22 inch I'm currently playing my PS4 games on or wait... A WHOLE DAY.
WAIT. That misery is not worth wasting your first moments of a great game on.
 

DrBo42

Member
Edmond Dantès;131728202 said:
Celebrimbor derived much of his knowledge of ring forging from Sauron, but it must be remembered that all of Sauron's knowledge was derived from Aulë while he served under him before been seduced by Melkor. It is therefore doubtful that Sauron could have surpassed a being far more knowledgeable than him in the skill of ring forging and that such knowledge was imparted to Celebrimbor. Furthermore, Mandos had foresight beyond all save Eru himself. In Tolkien's mind he was analogous to Heimdall and Osiris, an all-seeing judge of the dead, who knew the fates of all beings of Arda. Deceiving him would be futile, appealing to him only Luthien did successfully. Thus, Mandos would have to be aware of Celebrimbor and his actions.

Is Mandos the reason the Istari remained in Middle-Earth beyond the first defeat of Sauron? Were the events from the Hobbit & onward known to him?
 
This was totally off my radar until GAF got riled up at the 6GB VRAM-ness of it. Piqued my interest so I went through this and the review thread and now have to own this game.

Th-thanks GAF.
 

nynt9

Member
Edmond Dantès;131728202 said:
Celebrimbor derived much of his knowledge of ring forging from Sauron, but it must be remembered that all of Sauron's knowledge was derived from Aulë while he served under him before been seduced by Melkor. It is therefore doubtful that Sauron could have surpassed a being far more knowledgeable than him in the skill of ring forging and that such knowledge was imparted to Celebrimbor. Furthermore, Mandos had foresight beyond all save Eru himself. In Tolkien's mind he was analogous to Heimdall and Osiris, an all-seeing judge of the dead, who knew the fates of all beings of Arda. Deceiving him would be futile, appealing to him only Luthien did successfully. Thus, Mandos would have to be aware of Celebrimbor and his actions.

What if the wraith isn't actually Celebrimbor and we're being misled?
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
What if the wraith isn't actually Celebrimbor and we're being misled?

Jbqbx7k.gif
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
There's apparently a Ultra-Texture option on PC that requires 6GB VRAM. Fucking what. I just got my 980 and already feel like it's been overshadowed. Lol

I was just saying in the Nvidia thread the other day that I'm still happy with my good old GTX560Ti and don't see any need to be upgrading anytime soon. This game however may tempt me to upgrade my video card much sooner than later....
 

educator

Member
Cant wait to get this game, looks awesome.

Is this game anything like Dragon Age or The Witcher games? Im dying for a next gen RPG!
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Very excited for this. Fully glad I got it on Steam that other day and relieved I did not pick a dud.

I hope I can make the PC version show PS4 controller prompts. I will play this on Big Picture mode in the living room with a DS4 controller.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
So, when an elf dies, his spirit is called to the Halls of Mandos. I remember reading somewhere that the fëa may be able to resist Námo's call and remain in Middle-Earth. Wouldn't this be a possible explanation for Celebrimbor's existence as a wraith? But then again, my memory may be completely wrong since I haven't actually read the History of Middle-Earth yet.
The Elves learned from Manwë that each spirit was imperishable within the life of Arda and that it was their fate to inhabit Arda to its end. A fate separate from that of Men. Once bodiless (due to death of physical body) they were open to the direct instruction and command of the Valar. They were summoned to leave the places of their life and death to go to the Halls of Waiting. If they obeyed the summons, different opportunities awaited them, for only those who willingly go to Mandos may be re-born. This is a grace and comes from the power that Eru committed to the Valar for the ruling of Arda. It isn’t something that a spirit itself could do. Those who return, only do so after Mandos has spoken the doom of release and then Varda and Manwë bless this release.

A spirit cannot be brought to Mandos, only summoned. The summons may be refused and that was quite frequent in the early days of the Elves. However, it became less frequent when the influence of Melkor and his servant Sauron grew. A spirit in that case would flee in terror of the Darkness to any refuge, unless the spirit was already aligned to the Darkness. Those of the Elves who had become corrupted and refused the summons had little power to resist the counter-summons of Melkor and were thus enthralled by him.

The refusal of the summons is regarded as a sign of taint. There were many who wandered bodiless in the world, haunting hidden places they once knew and not all of these were of a kind nature or untainted by the Darkness. Tolkien regarded the bodiless as being subject to bitterness, envy and grievance. Some were enslaved by Melkor and did his work for him, and carried on such things even after his banishment. They lied, had little in the way of wisdom and to call on them was folly. Tolkien regarded the summoning of such spirits as a wickedness in the heart of the individual and that such practices were of Melkor’s and the necromancers in the service of Sauron.

Tolkien also made it clear that some of these bodiless spirits desired physical bodies, not via the judgment of Mandos, no, but via unlawful means. These wretched spirits pleaded for shelter, deceiving the unwary, and then if admitted, they sought to enslave their hosts and use their bodies for their own malicious purposes. Sauron did these things and he taught his followers to do the same.

This further strengthens the position regarding Talion and Celebrimbor (along with the allusion involving Merry in The Lord of the Rings). Of course, The Lord of the Rings is a primary text and that which I have detailed above is found only in the Histories and some scholars would argue that these hold less weight. Due to their nature and the manner in which Christopher Tolkien chose to omit some texts and not others (but that is an entirely different debate). I do not prescribe to that. The writers at Monolith have clearly done their research and what is presented in their version of the mythos is not beyond the realms of what Tolkien envisaged. In fact, it fits quite well within his ‘cycle’ as he described it.
Is Mandos the reason the Istari remained in Middle-Earth beyond the first defeat of Sauron? Were the events from the Hobbit & onward known to him?
All was known to him and the other Valar. It was they who sent the Istari after a council was held. It was the method they saw fit to use considering all that previously befell Arda was due to direct interference.
 
Cant wait to get this game, looks awesome.

Is this game anything like Dragon Age or The Witcher games? Im dying for a next gen RPG!

This game looks awesome but you might want to adjust your expectations if you go in with an RPG mindset. There are no dialogue choices and the story missions progress in a linear fashion. As far as I can tell, there are no character builds, you eventually unlock all the powers but you can prioritise along the way.

Having said that, the Nemesis system lets you genuinely influence the open world and NPCs in ways that branching RPGs don't allow for. It's still a brawler/stealth game at its core though.
 

educator

Member
This game looks awesome but you might want to adjust your expectations if you go in with an RPG mindset. There are no dialogue choices and the story missions progress in a linear fashion. As far as I can tell, there are no character builds, you eventually unlock all the powers but you can prioritise along the way.

Having said that, the Nemesis system lets you genuinely influence the open world and NPCs in ways that branching RPGs don't allow for. It's still a brawler/stealth game at its core though.

Thanks. I haven't done my homework enough, I've just watched some trailers and it got me very hyped. I know this is a tricky question (since the game isn't out yet), but do you think it'll be somewhat like Darksiders 2?
 
Thanks. I haven't done my homework enough, I've just watched some trailers and it got me very hyped. I know this is a tricky question (since the game isn't out yet), but do you think it'll be somewhat like Darksiders 2?

Haven't played that one but from what I know, it does have similiarities. Batman Arkham and Assassin's Creed are better comparisons though.
 

DrBo42

Member
Edmond Dantès;131741624 said:
All was known to him and the other Valar. It was they who sent the Istari after a council was held. It was the method they saw fit to use considering all that previously befell Arda was due to direct interference.

Right, I get why they were sent in more of a guidance role but how did they know to remain there after Sauron was defeated by the Last Alliance? Did the Istari know it wasn't over until the ring was destroyed? The films definitely don't come across that way as Gandalf seems really caught off-guard and the White Council are in disbelief when there's talk of a Necromancer in the fortress.
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Preordered on US PSN. I would've waited for the Japanese retail released, but not only was it supposed to be in December, but it was also delayed by two weeks... No thanks, I'll take the much cheaper digital version.

The PSN description says that the game should be available on 28.09, but I'm guessing it's about the preload, since it says September 30th in 2 other places in the description.
 

Slixshot

Banned
My new tv doesn't come in till Wednesday, the question is whether to play this on the 22 inch I'm currently playing my PS4 games on or wait... A WHOLE DAY.

You know you would have the ultimate experience if you waited that day and the first thing that you saw on it was this game :)
 

Raggie

Member
Having not played the game, I'm still pretty sure this game is more respectful of the canon than the movies (especially these later ones).
 
The more tidbits I read about the story, the more excited I am to play what basically seems like a grindhouse revenge flick set in Tolkien's universe.

Also, Liam O'Brien is playing (character spoilers for people not following the trailers)
Gollum
, right? Because I've been watching all the trailers, and holy hell, he sounds exactly like
Andy Serkis
. Crazy good impression if that's true.
 

Valravn

Member
It sucks that my local to-go gaming shop is gone. I always got games early there because the owner sold games under the counter. Now i have to wait like the rest. :p
 

Wallach

Member
The more tidbits I read about the story, the more excited I am to play what basically seems like a grindhouse revenge flick set in Tolkien's universe.

Also, Liam O'Brien is playing (character spoilers for people not following the trailers)
Gollum
, right? Because I've been watching all the trailers, and holy hell, he sounds exactly like
Andy Serkis
. Crazy good impression if that's true.

Yeah, he is doing that voice, and it's quite good.
 

deadfolk

Member
- Controls are extremely complex - all four face buttons and triggers do something, and there are 3 separate actions mapped to pressing two face buttons simultaneously. D-Pad does important stuff too. It's crazy at first, although you adjust with time.

I guess remote play is out, then.
 
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