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[entremet]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/17/o...-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

The working paper by Alan Krueger, a Princeton economist, casts light on this population, which grew during the recession that started in 2007. As of last month, 11.4 percent of men between the ages of 25 and 54 — or about seven million people — were not in the labor force, which means that they were not employed and were not seeking a job. This percentage has been rising for decades (it was less than 4 percent in the 1950s), but the trend accelerated in the last 20 years.

Surveys taken between 2010 and this year show that 40 percent of prime working-age men who are not in the labor force report having pain that prevents them from taking jobs for which they are qualified. More than a third of the men not in the labor force said they had difficulty walking or climbing stairs or had another disability. Forty-four percent said they took painkillers daily and two-thirds of that subset were on prescription medicines. By contrast, just 20 percent of employed men and 19 percent of unemployed men (those looking for work) in the same age group reported taking any painkillers.

Painkiller/heroin addiction is a serious problem right now.

 

[Ashodin]

How many are NEET?

 

[Zaru]

What this tells me is that almost a quarter of working-age men in the USA are on painkillers. What the fuck? I can't even imagine what that's like, I only ever needed any after getting wisdom teeth removed.

 

[Binabik15]

. By contrast, just 20 percent of employed men and 19 percent of unemployed men (those looking for work) in the same age group reported taking any painkillers.

JUST?!

WTF, US health care really seems down the gutter.

 

[entremet]

JUST?!

WTF, US health care really seems down the gutter.

Docs giving out opioids like candy over three decades.

http://news.health.com/2016/03/28/n...scribe-addictive-narcotic-painkillers-survey/

 

[Henkka]

What's the stat for women?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Sounds like a lot of people need a healthier lifestyle. I doubt that many people are actually disabled or in pain because of things out of their own control.

 

[McDougles]

Sounds like a lot of people need a healthier lifestyle. I doubt that many people are actually disabled or in pain because of things out of their own control.

Relevant information supporting your doubt?

 

[Ace Harding]

What this tells me is that almost a quarter of working-age men in the USA are on painkillers. What the fuck? I can't even imagine what that's like, I only ever needed any after getting wisdom teeth removed.

How are you getting "almost a quarter of working age men?"

 

[ClosingADoor]

Relevant information supporting your doubt?

Obesity stats for example. Which will lead to this:

More than a third of the men not in the labor force said they had difficulty walking or climbing stairs or had another disability.

America (and a lot of other countries) have major problems with basic health and weight issues, which leads to people experiencing more pain then needed while doing basic tasks.

 

[entremet]

How are you getting "almost a quarter of working age men?"

He quoted it lol.

20 percent. Only 5 percentage points away from a quarter.

 

[Unstable]

Sounds like a lot of people need a healthier lifestyle. I doubt that many people are actually disabled or in pain because of things out of their own control.

Both the US insurance & healthcare industries are legally & monetarily incentivized to over-prescribe. It's a systematic problem, not a societal one.

 

[KonradLaw]

Welcome to NHK age as finally arrived in USA?

 

[darkace]

Relevant information supporting your doubt?

There are no real stats on this. We know it's happening, we just don't know why yet. There are lots of theories (more people on welfare, more time in school), but none of them fully capture it.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Sounds like a lot of people need a healthier lifestyle. I doubt that many people are actually disabled or in pain because of things out of their own control.

Have you ever worked a blue collar/labor job? Not snark, genuinely curious.

 

[Neo C.]

It's one of the current big challenges. Putting them back to job market would mean billions dollar less stress for social security net (public and private) and billions dollar more tax revenue.
But as someone working with unemployed people before, I know it's really hard considering how many health and mental problems they have during their time without a job.

 

[FyreWulff]

Sounds like a lot of people need a healthier lifestyle. I doubt that many people are actually disabled or in pain because of things out of their own control.

Most of the jobs that have the highest turnover are also the ones that physically destroy you.

 

[antyk]

Sounds like a lot of people need a healthier lifestyle. I doubt that many people are actually disabled or in pain because of things out of their own control.

Yeah, just like in Poland there's currently a flood of commercials for medicine you take after you've eaten something that makes your stomach or liver hurt or creates gases, acid reflux, etc. Like WTF?! Simply don't eat too much or at all if it makes you feel sick...

 

[Ace Harding]

He quoted it lol.

20 percent. Only 5 percentage points away from a quarter.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong. I read "20 percent of working men reported taking any painkillers" and thought by "any" they meant one or more, not taking them daily and/or abusing them.

I don't think 20% of employed men in this country are "on painkillers."

Edit: it would help if I actually read the article. I am wrong. 20% reported taking them the day before the study. Jesus.

 

[Zaru]

How are you getting "almost a quarter of working age men?"

Edit: Nevermind, I thought you had a problem with the percentage total

I assumed they meant that 20% were on regular painkillers. Kind of hard to know what they mean with "any" (in what timeframe?) otherwise.

 

[kirblar]

1 in 5 counts things like ibuprofen in addition to the prescription stuff.

 

[davidbloop]

I work a physical job and while I don't take painkillers daily, I would take them approx 4 times a week. (Only like aspirin, ibuprofen etc.). Always have pains in the legs, feet and back and it's impossible to recover completely with 2 days off a week. Also get a lot of bad headaches from stress (I'm in Security so my day to day life is making enemies, copping threats, being looked down on and being abused)

I'd love to take a longer break each week to let my body recover but then I can't afford to eat. It's cheaper and easier to pop some painkillers and just get on with it. Plus here in Australia, a bloke taking a day off for anything less than a bullet to the face would be considered 'wussy' especially in my industry.

Have talked to a doctor, was basically told I shouldn't be surprised with the amount of walking I do it's going to hurt and the only way to stop it is to take 3-4 day breaks..... a luxury I don't have right now.

 

[old]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.


"Ohhhh my back hurts. Oh, and I'm tired a lot. Can't work doc. Now give me those disability checks."

 

[Ace Harding]

1 in 5 counts things like ibuprofen in addition to the prescription stuff.

Yeah - I looked at the study and OTC pain meds are included. That is much more believable.

I mean I took Tylenol yesterday, so I'd be in that 20%.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.

I have crippling mental illness. I pray for death every day. I'll trade you any day for your health. But, oh boy, I get a few bucks a month! That makes it all better, right?

My argument is that there are millions of undiagnosed Americans battling pain, chronic fatigue, depression, and other disabilities...but for one reason or another they go to work that day instead of the doctor's office. They're working hard paying the taxes to fund those who, in the same situation and the same symtpoms, went to the doctor's office to get on disability.

You're right, I worked for years with my illness. I paid into the system. Now I can't take advantage of it and must continue to suffer? Must be nice to be healthy and so ignorant.

But we know there is one party that basically believes mental health is irrelevant, especially for men.

Exactly. Men are 3.5 times more likely to commit suicide than women: https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
But mental illness isn't real and these people should be working! /s

 

[Abstrusity]

I get physically nauseous even being around my family, and it's much, much worse being swarmed by people. Even then, I still work, doing merchandising jobs that I could step out of the stores at any time when I get uncomfortable or worse (up to hyperventilation, sometimes leading to vomiting). It's not enough to get disability, though I kinda don't want it. Not even worth the hassle. Just need t o finish out college and get a real job, where I could have some slight privacy in a cubicle.

 

[entremet]

I have crippling mental illness. I pray for death every day. I'll trade you any day for your health. But, oh boy, I get a few bucks a month! That makes it all better, right?

One of the recommendation in the article is more funding into opiod treatment programs and mental health.

But we know there is one party that basically believes mental health is irrelevant, especially for men.

 

[Futureman]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.


"Ohhhh my back hurts. Oh, and I'm tired a lot. Can't work doc. Now give me those disability checks."

Seriously? These people's addiction filled lives are not pleasant. You'd rather be hooked on a painkiller and getting government assistance then leading your own healthy, happy productive life?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Have you ever worked a blue collar/labor job? Not snark, genuinely curious.

Not for a career. Did some farm work when I was younger to earn extra money. The article doesn't mention this is specific to labor intensive jobs though, but the overall workforce.

Most of the jobs that have the highest turnover are also the ones that physically destroy you.

Sounds like a problem with workplace regulations then. Wonder how the differences are between countries/states that have laws to give people more breaks and vacation days.

 

[old]

Seriously? These people's addiction filled lives are not pleasant. You'd rather be hooked on a painkiller and getting government assistance then leading your own healthy, happy productive life?

You presume too much. You're argument seems to be that disabilities have a 100% diagnose rate. That anybody with a disability is diagnosed 100% of the time; and therefore if one doesn't have a diagnosis that they must not have a legitimate disabiling symptoms.

My argument is that there are millions of undiagnosed Americans battling pain, chronic fatigue, depression, and other disabilities...but for one reason or another they go to work that day instead of the doctor's office. They're working hard paying the taxes to fund those who, in the same situation and the same symtpoms, went to the doctor's office to get on disability.

 

[jb1234]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.


"Ohhhh my back hurts. Oh, and I'm tired a lot. Can't work doc. Now give me those disability checks."

If you ever find yourself with an illness that prevents you from working, you'll be eating these words. There's nothing fun about living on disability. You get shit. Take it from someone who knows.

 

[Matsukaze]

You presume too much. You're argument seems to be that disabilities have a 100% diagnose rate. That anybody with a disability is diagnosed 100% of the time; and therefore if one doesn't have a diagnosis that they must not have a legitimate disabiling symptoms.

My argument is that there are millions of undiagnosed Americans battling pain, chronic fatigue, depression, and other disabilities...but for one reason or another they go to work that day instead of the doctor's office. They're working hard paying the taxes to fund those who, in the same situation and the same symtpoms, went to the doctor's office to get on disability.

So your argument is these people should just go to work, suffer in silence, and that no one should receive care?

 

[HarryHengst]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.


"Ohhhh my back hurts. Oh, and I'm tired a lot. Can't work doc. Now give me those disability checks."

Well, what is preventing you? Oh let me guess, you feel like you are morally better than ''those people''?

You presume too much. You're argument seems to be that disabilities have a 100% diagnose rate. That anybody with a disability is diagnosed 100% of the time; and therefore if one doesn't have a diagnosis that they must not have a legitimate disabiling symptoms.

My argument is that there are millions of undiagnosed Americans battling pain, chronic fatigue, depression, and other disabilities...but for one reason or another they go to work that day instead of the doctor's office. They're working hard paying the taxes to fund those who, in the same situation and the same symtpoms, went to the doctor's office to get on disability.

I agree. The people who are going into the office with chronic fatigue and depression and crippling pain should not go into the office but go on disability.

 

[Futureman]

You presume too much. You're argument seems to be that disabilities have a 100% diagnose rate. That anybody with a disability is diagnosed 100% of the time; and therefore if one doesn't have a diagnosis that they must not have a legitimate disabiling symptoms.

My argument is that there are millions of undiagnosed Americans battling pain, chronic fatigue, depression, and other disabilities...but for one reason or another they go to work that day instead of the doctor's office. They're working hard paying the taxes to fund those who, in the same situation and the same symtpoms, went to the doctor's office to get on disability.

I don't have an argument, I was just reacting to what you said.

As far as I can tell, there are two groups of people the article in the OP is talking about...

People who are in debilitating pain and need painkillers daily (not desirable) and people who aren't in pain but somehow secured a painkiller prescription and are addicated (not desirable). You're comment came off as insulting to both groups to me.

 

[FyreWulff]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.


"Ohhhh my back hurts. Oh, and I'm tired a lot. Can't work doc. Now give me those disability checks."

So, just to make sure this is consistent, have you ever been on food stamps, welfare, or disability?

 

[Pamplemousse]

Exactly. Men are 3.5 times more likely to commit suicide than women: https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
But mental illness isn't real and these people should be working! /s

That's only because men are more likely to use more fatal means in a suicide attempt (a gun).

 

[Clint Beastwood]

This guy makes it sound like people on disability get enough money to buy a house in San Francisco

Also the idea that people using your tax money is bad is hilarious. What else is it supposed to be used for? You're too manly to ask for assistance so who should that money benefit, the government?

 

[Aaronrules380]

That's only because men are more likely to use more fatal means in a suicide attempt (a gun).

Yep. From the same source he listed

Females attempt suicide three times more often than males

 

[Somnid]

Even including OTC painkillers that number is insane. People should not be popping pills at anywhere near that rate. What's the cause here? Obesity? Can't afford/can't go to physical therapy?

 

[shira]

Sounds like a lot of people need a healthier lifestyle. I doubt that many people are actually disabled or in pain because of things out of their own control.

1. 66% overweight+obese rate in the US with 36% obese rate. If you combo up obesity with immobility from an injury and diabetes. That is some tough rehab to do to get your life on track.

2. Car accidents and job accidents. In a lot of cases to get insurance money or workman's comp you can't work. You have to show a judge or jury that in the year(s) it took to go to trial and beyond that you can't work a job.

3. Painkillers are cheap to make and docs are prescribing them.

 

[Guevara]

I find it really incredible so many are apparently able to get by with no formal job or regular income.

 

[entremet]

I find it really incredible so many are apparently able to get by with no formal job or regular income.

Support systems like family help.

It's funny. America, a highly individualistic culture, is becoming more family centered due to economic realities.

Even those who have their crap together are doing stuff like that sharing economy--roommates in big metros for example.

The era of cheap housing and single income families is over.

 

[ClosingADoor]

1. 66% overweight+obese rate in the US with 36% obese rate. If you combo up obesity with immobility from an injury and diabetes. That is some tough rehab to do to get your life on track.

2. Car accidents and job accidents. In a lot of cases to get insurance money or workman's comp you can't work. You have to show a judge or jury that in the year(s) it took to go to trial and beyond that you can't work a job.

3. Painkillers are cheap to make and docs are prescribing them.

Don't know about those last two (not American). That first would start with a healthier lifestyle with people growing up and more incentives for employers to care about their employees health. Doubt that will happen though. But 2/3 of your population being overweight should be extremely concerning and cause for immediate healthcare and education changes.

I find it really incredible so many are apparently able to get by with no formal job or regular income.

Getting by until an accident happens and they don't have any savings to handle it. It's barely getting by probably. And we had a thread earlier about people living at home longer and longer. There is probably some overlap there also.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Uh those painkiller stats are alarming.

 

[rokkerkory]

What this tells me is that almost a quarter of working-age men in the USA are on painkillers. What the fuck? I can't even imagine what that's like, I only ever needed any after getting wisdom teeth removed.

Addiction is a crazy thing

 

[old manatee]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.


"Ohhhh my back hurts. Oh, and I'm tired a lot. Can't work doc. Now give me those disability checks."

You sound like Ronald Reagan.

 

[Sectorseven]

I feel like I'm a sucker for working a job. I feel like I'm out of the circle of those "in the know" who know how to work the system to get free money and not work.


"Ohhhh my back hurts. Oh, and I'm tired a lot. Can't work doc. Now give me those disability checks."

Getting on disability is a pain in the ass (no pun intended). You have to be without income for two years, which means anyone gaming the system like that is also being enabled by someone else.

 

[FyreWulff]

Getting on disability is a pain in the ass (no pun intended). You have to be without income for two years, which means anyone gaming the system like that is also being enabled by someone else.

also you're almost always denied the first time

and reams of doctor visits and counseling

and the government documenting every time you blink

 

[wenis]

I find it really incredible so many are apparently able to get by with no formal job or regular income.

That's what I'm curious about as well. I work contracts, mostly because the market in the tech/game industry is shifting away from real full time positions and going towards temp full time positions. It's a fucking nightmare, so I'm very curious how they're all living without working.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

also you're almost always denied the first time

and reams of doctor visits and counseling

and the government documenting every time you blink

The Man is playing you for a fool, it's easy to get disability. It's all just a myth to keep people being hardworking men like old

Can't have half of America knowing the get rich quick scheme that actually works