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New cartridge based non-emulated "Retro" console being kickstarted!
- Thread starter ultrazilla
- Start date
What's stopping them from doing this on systems that already exist though, and why would that be less of an issue with this system that will use cartridges? I see the appeal of a more durable console, but I'm not really seeing how that would benefit developers. I'll be interested to see who they can get on board with this.
GhostTrick
Banned
I don't see that working.
How will they get to print cartridges ? How are people supposed to buy games from which retailers ?
How will they get to print cartridges ? How are people supposed to buy games from which retailers ?
NoFaceNico
Member
Cool down the butt hurt.
They're using the exact same molds as the Jaguar, and most likely for the cartridges as well since they have those molds too. Why would it be so random for me to suggest that they could get more people interested in this by making this a clone console as well? There are plenty of clone consoles for SNES and SMD, but no one has ever made a Jaguar clone. And like I said, there's a pretty good homebrew scene for the original Jag, which could only help them. If it could play original Jag games then that alone could justify the price even if/when this Retro VGS project crashes. I don't think it's random at all.
stan423321
Member
Well, if I was to handle that, everything would be a mail order, and I'd use recordable cartridges by design.
This thing is supposed to be rare.
I think.
IdreamofHIME
Member
lmao
Vaughngief
Member
They're wrong in saying "kids these days won't know the feeling" of retro titles and systems. My brother, who is 12, loves playing on SNES and N64 as well as his Wii U and Xbox One. Making a system for physical indie titles sounds cool, but a huge waste of money and something that just won't take off. They're better off just investing into becoming a publisher for physical indie 3DS or Vita titles if they want something close to cartridges. Though, that'd probably cost a lot more.
stan423321
Member
It's not random that it came to your mind. It is random, however, for that to be considered by them at all. It's completely counterintuitive when the leading idea is "modern indie retro title on an actual cartridge".
BWJinxing
Member
Eh, I think resources would be better spent on buying/making old licences happen, created in 16 bit style and port to modern devices rather than to dedicate a device as this.
I was just thinking how are they doing to print carts, because i'm thinking they will just be SD cards in disguise. Arent they way cheaper then rom chips? Then there are so many questions, I do too wonder if it will use ARM or 68000 chips. Will it support HDMI, etc.
It would have to have an impressive library for me to consider purchasing one, i dont run out to buy 16 bit indie games to begin with. Or be extremely cheap.
I was just thinking how are they doing to print carts, because i'm thinking they will just be SD cards in disguise. Arent they way cheaper then rom chips? Then there are so many questions, I do too wonder if it will use ARM or 68000 chips. Will it support HDMI, etc.
It would have to have an impressive library for me to consider purchasing one, i dont run out to buy 16 bit indie games to begin with. Or be extremely cheap.
BigWeather
Member
Spelunky cart and I'm in!
ieptbarakat
Member
I think it would be great to go back to carts, for durability and loading speed reasons alone.
Though going back just because it's retro and trying to re-live the 16-bit era is a waste of resources.
Though going back just because it's retro and trying to re-live the 16-bit era is a waste of resources.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I would be happy to Kickstart a port of Shovel Knight/Retro City Rampage/VVVVVV/etc to SNES/Genesis. But making an actual new 16 bit console seems stupid.
Cookie Dough
Member
Oh dear. Nostalgia is nice and all but let's not get carried away. Or do get carried away, more power to them I guess if they can make it work, but it's still silly.
DeuceGamer
Member
Clearly the majority of the developers that don't release a physical version feel it's not costing them any significant money or they would release it on existing consoles. Whenever there are physical releases like Retro City Rampage or Child of Light on Vita, I pick those up as I will with Mighty No. 9 on Wii U.
I wish we got more of those types of releases but, I don't see any benefit for devs to release it on this new console but not on existing hardware. I'll be the first to say I'm in the minority and that I can't really envision a scenario where this is successful. I'm just pointing out why I would personally be interested in it as a Video Game collector.
Green Yoshi
Member
That sounds really interesting.
dancrane212
Member
If they folk making the hardware are able to get good, original, games made for this I'm interested. The idea of spending a bunch of money to play ports of older indie titles but on a cart doesn't capture my interest at all.
sakipon
Member
I like this idea. I've actually bought some of those indie collections made for retail (for PS3 and 360). And I'd buy Outlast and some other faves on disc immediately... so bring it on, more retail versions of great indies.
If they can actually make deals with developers and publishers AND have the infrastructure in place to be able to manufacture carts/systems to meet consumer demand, then I'm on board.
Most of my "modern" gaming is comprised of indies and I'd much rather have physical copies of those games instead of their steam/GoG/PSN/Live/eShop/etc counterparts.
Most of my "modern" gaming is comprised of indies and I'd much rather have physical copies of those games instead of their steam/GoG/PSN/Live/eShop/etc counterparts.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
A retro style console with no games? Yeah... Don't sign me up.
panda-zebra
Banned
Sorry for the WoT, I've been following this from the earliest teases via facebook and AtariAge threads.
There are maybe a few dozen active full-timers posting regularly in jaguar forums these days. We've been discussing the proposed system (despite having little to go on for most of the time). You might be surprised to learn how many copies of games they are projecting to sell... one comment posted had them suggest the first thousand copies might have exclusive cart colours before all remaining copies revert to a standard colour. That raised a few eyebrows...
Other points of note: we saw the guys suggest software was being worked on by devs many months ago, right from the earliest hints of what the system might be. Then, later we saw them post regarding contacting the holders of the Amiga IP to arrange some kind of deal to license that hardware somehow. It all seemed a little conflicting as that comment seemed to suggest the hardware itself wasn't fixed. Later, when we continued to ask for more details, it was announced that the system would be FPGA-based, reconfigurable - the cartridge would not only contain the game code and assets, but would transform the hardware from SNES to NeoGeo, to Mega Drive to... whatever system it was that the dev required to suit their expertise and knowledge. So all "retro" devs could target their hardware and gain access to some kind of eager, captive audience, ready to buy up physical copies of titles. That's where I lost interest somewhat, it seemed so pie-in-the-sky.
I'm not sure how they managed to get from the original idea of a "new retro" system and ended up with a frankenstein simulation/emulation/monetisation box, but damn, it really seems to have bypassed the very reason people go to the effort to produce and put out games for long-dead systems and jumped staright to the money/box/shelf/revolving glass cabinet collecting-for-collectings-sake kind of angle, that to me at least seemed on the icky side of cash-grab.
Can't see it personally. Nobody is going to put the effort in to target a soulless system, a system that has no identity of its own and lacks all the emotional and nostaligic draw that real retro systems enjoy. Yes, they might convince a few devs to allow them to put out their existing titles if they can provide suitably accurate cores for whatever it is their fpga of choice happens to be. The one game I've seen so far is a SNES title, the video claimed it was originally planned for that stystem. But now it seems it might very well still be a SNES game and the plan is to simulate a SNES to present it. It does possibly open the door to allowing "souped-up" simulations and bastardisations of old hardware, but then you're in that murky area where what you're doing isn't true to what you might have originally got into making these games for in the first place and therefore not for everyone.
It's the lack of hard limitations and and fixed spec for exploring and exploiting that turned me off most. Working within confines can force all kinds of great things to the surface, can be rewarding and can lead to healthy competition as teams try to one-up the achievements of one another like the old demoscene days. This box seems to be ignoring all of that in favour of something that attempts to be all things to all men.
Cynical me sees the investment in the moulds for producing replacement jaguar console shells and cartridge shells as a banker, something that would at least recoup an initial investment and more (see sales numbers at AtariAge thread for shells). The kickstarter retrovgs might work out for them, it might not, but for the guys doing it no doubt worth a punt either way.
Ah, now that looks like the SNES game I mentioned. The AtariAge threads (can't easily link as on tablet and not got my account set up on here) one in hardware section, one jaguar forum, that's where they revealed how they intend the setup to work - the reconfigurable fpga console simulator.
BTW, a hardware guy who designed our Jaguar flash carts and gang flasher made an observation on this:
Apparently, the placement of the 2 subd-9 and USB sockets in the mockup seem impossibly close to one another given the position of the power LED (original Jaguar LED positioning) and the footprint they would take up inside.
There are maybe a few dozen active full-timers posting regularly in jaguar forums these days. We've been discussing the proposed system (despite having little to go on for most of the time). You might be surprised to learn how many copies of games they are projecting to sell... one comment posted had them suggest the first thousand copies might have exclusive cart colours before all remaining copies revert to a standard colour. That raised a few eyebrows...
Other points of note: we saw the guys suggest software was being worked on by devs many months ago, right from the earliest hints of what the system might be. Then, later we saw them post regarding contacting the holders of the Amiga IP to arrange some kind of deal to license that hardware somehow. It all seemed a little conflicting as that comment seemed to suggest the hardware itself wasn't fixed. Later, when we continued to ask for more details, it was announced that the system would be FPGA-based, reconfigurable - the cartridge would not only contain the game code and assets, but would transform the hardware from SNES to NeoGeo, to Mega Drive to... whatever system it was that the dev required to suit their expertise and knowledge. So all "retro" devs could target their hardware and gain access to some kind of eager, captive audience, ready to buy up physical copies of titles. That's where I lost interest somewhat, it seemed so pie-in-the-sky.
I'm not sure how they managed to get from the original idea of a "new retro" system and ended up with a frankenstein simulation/emulation/monetisation box, but damn, it really seems to have bypassed the very reason people go to the effort to produce and put out games for long-dead systems and jumped staright to the money/box/shelf/revolving glass cabinet collecting-for-collectings-sake kind of angle, that to me at least seemed on the icky side of cash-grab.
Can't see it personally. Nobody is going to put the effort in to target a soulless system, a system that has no identity of its own and lacks all the emotional and nostaligic draw that real retro systems enjoy. Yes, they might convince a few devs to allow them to put out their existing titles if they can provide suitably accurate cores for whatever it is their fpga of choice happens to be. The one game I've seen so far is a SNES title, the video claimed it was originally planned for that stystem. But now it seems it might very well still be a SNES game and the plan is to simulate a SNES to present it. It does possibly open the door to allowing "souped-up" simulations and bastardisations of old hardware, but then you're in that murky area where what you're doing isn't true to what you might have originally got into making these games for in the first place and therefore not for everyone.
It's the lack of hard limitations and and fixed spec for exploring and exploiting that turned me off most. Working within confines can force all kinds of great things to the surface, can be rewarding and can lead to healthy competition as teams try to one-up the achievements of one another like the old demoscene days. This box seems to be ignoring all of that in favour of something that attempts to be all things to all men.
Cynical me sees the investment in the moulds for producing replacement jaguar console shells and cartridge shells as a banker, something that would at least recoup an initial investment and more (see sales numbers at AtariAge thread for shells). The kickstarter retrovgs might work out for them, it might not, but for the guys doing it no doubt worth a punt either way.
Ah, now that looks like the SNES game I mentioned. The AtariAge threads (can't easily link as on tablet and not got my account set up on here) one in hardware section, one jaguar forum, that's where they revealed how they intend the setup to work - the reconfigurable fpga console simulator.
BTW, a hardware guy who designed our Jaguar flash carts and gang flasher made an observation on this:
Apparently, the placement of the 2 subd-9 and USB sockets in the mockup seem impossibly close to one another given the position of the power LED (original Jaguar LED positioning) and the footprint they would take up inside.
To Far Away Times
Member
I appreciate what they're trying to do here but this won't work out.
This thing will have a super small user base and you won't see a company like Konami making Axelay 2 on this thing.
If that was ever going to happen, it would be on PSN/XBLA type stores with actual user bases.
This thing will have a super small user base and you won't see a company like Konami making Axelay 2 on this thing.
If that was ever going to happen, it would be on PSN/XBLA type stores with actual user bases.
on aa side note.
I've been making maverick bird for the megadrive in my free time, just as a side project
I've been making maverick bird for the megadrive in my free time, just as a side project
GayForMaster
Banned
Sounds look a cool idea but it'll probably bomb.
Yeah I'm not understanding this either.
Lynd7
Member
Needs to be a fully original console design at least I feel. I doubt it'd be successful either way. Might be kinda cool for awhile.
It's kinda like the M2 'GigaDrive' thing that they made the specs for, for those Sega 3D Classics. Except they are taking it a step further and actually making it..
It's kinda like the M2 'GigaDrive' thing that they made the specs for, for those Sega 3D Classics. Except they are taking it a step further and actually making it..
stan423321
Member
Well, that's sad to hear.
NoFaceNico
Member
b... be... um... be.. because RETRO!!! Because Kickstarter!! GIVE ME MONEY DAMMIT!!!
If people think with their heads then this Kickstarter will fail. But I dunno, I've seen too many raspberry pi boxes loaded with emulators succeed to put that much faith in people who fund projects on KS.
Green Yoshi
Member
It is a console for people that want to collect games. If you just wanna play them, there are hundreds of cheaper alternatives.
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
I actually like the idea but I'll be amazed if it ever gets made due to the costs involved.
Agent X
Member
For what it's worth, now would be a good time to mention that Atari (under the ownership of Hasbro) declared the Jaguar an "open system" in 1998. This means that if someone so desired, they could produce a Jaguar-compatible system, without fear of repercussions from Atari.
As you said, the Jaguar homebrew scene is rather active. There are people who recently figured out how to port Atari ST games to Jaguar. There have also been Amiga games newly ported to the ST (and vice-versa), which could possibly be brought over to Jaguar as well. With all of this in mind, there might be a good reason to consider using a clone of the Jaguar chip set in a system like this.
Jazzkokehead
Member
This is such a silly idea. Unless there's something significant I'm missing, it doesn't seem to have much to offer besides nostalgia.
Stallion Dan
Member
I honestly do not see the point.
Just release the games on current systems. Which will likely happen anyway because cannot see this selling enough to sustain exclusives.
Just release the games on current systems. Which will likely happen anyway because cannot see this selling enough to sustain exclusives.
Mafia Films
Neo Member
any reason it looks like a jaguar and liberal gamester81 is promoting this system?
digitaldevmike
Member
So this thing is the new Phantom?
I found it funny that they would go to companies like Capcom about developing games for this. Wouldn't that be like asking Disney to make a new 2D feature film? While I've seen some impressive retro indie stuff, it seems to me that 16-bit is a lost art form, like the pyramids. Maybe not though.
I like the premise but the price point is going to be a killer. I don't know that people care enough about retro feeling games to want to (probably) have to pay a considerable markup on them for a physical cartridge, not to mention the investment in a standalone system to do so.
They have to get it to market incredibly cheaply but I don't see that happening when they intend to pack in 2 controllers that retail for about $30-40 each.
They have to get it to market incredibly cheaply but I don't see that happening when they intend to pack in 2 controllers that retail for about $30-40 each.
RPGCrazied
Member
Interesting idea, but hooking this up to a HDTV isn't going to look great. Is this going to use the old red/yellow cables or what? I might check it out if they can get SE on it, like a new chrono trigger, final fantasy or something.
LyleLanley
Banned
The people behind this seem delusional.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
This whole thing is ill advised on pretty much every level.
MrCunningham
Member
Atari Jaguar, is that you?
Oh wait, this was already pointed out.
Why yes it is.
Oh wait, this was already pointed out.