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[cj_iwakura]

They could've easily given the sorceress a more classy look,

but eh, it's Vanillaware. The game will still be great.

 

[UrbanRats]

Will the PS3 multiplayer be local as well as online?

I fucking hope so.
This game without local coop is worthless, WORTHLESS!

...Really?

I could name you tens of Japanese franchises full of generic, amateurish pap cynically churned out to sell dakimakura. And I'd probably agree with you if Kamitani had made every female character a Sorceress clone. But that didn't happen, and that should be a clue to you that Kamitani wasn't just designing characters as masturbation fodder.

How does, say, the Amazon NOT tell you anything about the world of this game? She is a perfect exaggeration of a female bodybuilder. All muscle, almost 0% fat. Compare this to other games coming out of Japan. How many of them even acknowledge muscle tone in women, even women who are supposed to be physically strong—much less put in a bodybuilder and NOT have it be a joke about how "LOL ugly" she is?

Is it intended to be "sexy" as well as exaggerated? Arguably. But titillation is not inherently evil, and this approach is so far away from artless copypaste garbage like Senran Kagura and Caladrius that I'm actually kind of flabbergasted you would conflate them.

Good post, unfortunately it's like there's an on and off switch for some people, when it comes to these "controversies", whereas i think things are more nuanced than that.
The game uses the aspect of "titillation" in a creative, ridicule and fun way, imo.

They could've easily given the sorceress a more classy look,

but eh, it's Vanillaware. The game will still be great.

Yeah that looks horribly boring, though.

 

[Karsticles]

Let me turn that around: What's right with titillation? When do you think it serves the interest of the game or media in question and when do you feel it is extraneous or a distraction? If the answer to the second question is "never," I doubt we can have a productive conversation.

I think you are trolling at this point. You refuse to answer why only protagonists are offensive, and you answer questions with more questions. When people answer you, I have no doubt that you will try and pick them apart with semantics and other rhetorical questions so you can continue to be disruptive.

They could've easily given the sorceress a more classy look,

http://hardcoregaming101.net/shikigami/shiki2fumiko.jpg

but eh, it's Vanillaware. The game will still be great.

What a terrible outfit.

 

[thumb]

...Really?

I could name you tens of Japanese franchises full of generic, amateurish pap cynically churned out to sell dakimakura. And I'd probably agree with you if Kamitani had made every female character a Sorceress clone. But that didn't happen, and that should be a clue to you that Kamitani wasn't just designing characters as masturbation fodder.

How does, say, the Amazon NOT tell you anything about the world of this game? She is a perfect exaggeration of a female bodybuilder. All muscle, almost 0% fat. Compare this to other games coming out of Japan. How many of them even acknowledge muscle tone in women, even women who are supposed to be physically strong—much less put in a bodybuilder and NOT have it be a joke about how "LOL ugly" she is?

Is it intended to be "sexy" as well as exaggerated? Arguably. But titillation is not inherently evil, and this approach is so far away from artless copypaste garbage like Senran Kagura and Caladrius that I'm actually kind of flabbergasted you would conflate them.

Several things:

1. The existence of other, worse examples is a red herring.

2. Female body builders do not have huge, bulbous asses and giant tits. These features exist to exaggerate secondary sexual characteristics in the protagonist.

3. I never mentioned anything about "garbage like Senran Kagura and Caladrius".

 

[thumb]

I think you are trolling at this point. You refuse to answer why only protagonists are offensive, and you answer questions with more questions. When people answer you, I have no doubt that you will try and pick them apart with semantics and other rhetorical questions so you can continue to be disruptive.

This is addressed here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50969511&postcount=226

 

[GraveRobberX]

Several things:

1. The existence of other, worse examples is a red herring.

2. Female body builders do not have huge, bulbous asses and giant tits. These features exist to exaggerate secondary sexual characteristics in the protagonist.

3. I never mentioned anything about "garbage like Senran Kagura and Caladrius".

Who the fuck cares

If this is hurting you so much, don't buy it

The director isn't going to change it your liking

Most in here are ready drop heavy cash, including me

If it doesn't float your boat, there are many games that might cater to your needs, go look for them

 

[Black Door]

They could've easily given the sorceress a more classy look,

but eh, it's Vanillaware. The game will still be great.

Classy=small breasts, right?

Strange how people get so hung up on female breasts when the male characters are just as hyper-stylized (the dwarf, God damn)

 

[Karsticles]

This is addressed here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50969511&postcount=226

First, a character that is the focus of player attention throughout the whole game is a bigger deal than an NPC who has little screen time.

Second, I am not "only" offended at protagonists. But I am more concerned. (I would use "embarrassed" more than "offended", however.)

It sounds like you have some problems with abundant female sexuality. I suggest you step out of the thread and play something else. The art for this game is not going to change, and there's no point in making this thread a complaint box for your problems. Perhaps you would enjoy entering the recent feminism video thread and complaining about this there.

Classy=small breasts, right?

Strange how people get so hung up on female breasts when the male characters are just as hyper-stylized (the dwarf, God damn)

What really bothers me is that there are women with the body type of the Sorceress. I don't understand how people can call these creations inherently offensive without also thinking that the real women who look like this are also offensive, which is just shaming them for their physical form. It's one thing to have a game like Senran Kagura, where there are boobs everywhere just for the sake of boobs. But the Sorceress is one female character among three, and all three women have very different body types. If anything, VanillaWare deserves praise for being one of the few companies to represent more than the typical "skinny girl with average breasts" archetype that prevades gaming. I'm not into the Amazon, but I'm glad to see her here. I used to have a friend who was a female bodybuilder, and her body type was much more similar to the Amazon than the repressed individuals posting here would want you to believe.

It's unfortunate that some people are too "embarrassed" to play a game with a beautiful woman in it. It would certainly be the end of their dignity if anyone knew what sorts of things they like. Therefore, shame every creator of such content and beseech other players to find it distasteful as well!

No, classy = modest and/or functional attire. Something a sorceress might realistically wear in a battle situation.

Classy =/= conservative. Talking about what a spellcaster would "realistically" wear into battle is pretty ridiculous. Nearly all casters in all RPGs ever wear cloth robes into battle.

 

[UrbanRats]

Let me turn that around: What's right with titillation?

It's a fun and good sensation, as sexuality is a fun and good thing in life.
The problem is mindless, inappropriate titillation, not the kind i'm seeing here, since it manages to maintain a ton of character while poking fun at itself and its own genre stereotypes, while embracing them for their stupid charm.

Having a barbarian with no muscle mass and big tits like the regular fantasy, would've been boring crap, like honorless pointed out, this doesn't fall in the same ballpark, although it still retains the elements of sexualization and titillation.
It's not a black and white argument.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Classy=small breasts, right?

No, classy = modest and/or functional attire. Something a sorceress might realistically wear in a battle situation.

 

[thumb]

Who the fuck cares

Who the fuck cares about whether you don't care? This is a discussion forum. I've made my point. No one had to reply, they chose to, including you.

 

[Ferrio]

I'd buy this game, but some of that stuff is too unrealistic and I'd feel embarassed playing it.

I mean, giant lizards that breathe fire? It's absurd that they'd represent reptiles in that way.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Who the fuck cares about whether you don't care? This is a discussion forum. I've made my point. No one had to reply, they chose to, including you.

You come into this thread asking why the characters are the way they are

Go ask the fucking director, why he chose it

Someone always has to go PC just to get a rise out of people

 

[radios shipping overview]

There's more to the portrayal of a character than just looks. There's nothing wrong with sexiness in itself, unless you're extremely religious or just uptight. The context of the character's looks - i.e. how well-developed and well-written the character is, plus her role in the game - is much more important than what she looks like.

If Dragon's Crown's exaggerated proportions make you feel all squicky, go play something else.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I'd buy this game, but some of that stuff is too unrealistic and I'd feel embarassed playing it.

I mean, giant lizards that breathe fire? It's absurd that they'd represent reptiles in that way.

Ice breath would change that right? I'm sure they'll have an ice breath expansion pack coming soon after release.

 

[Black Door]

No, classy = modest and/or functional attire. Something a sorceress might realistically wear in a battle situation.

realistically

sorceress

Uh huh, I see

 

[2+2=5]

No, classy = modest and/or functional attire. Something a sorceress might realistically wear in a battle situation.

Realistically shouldn't she wear some sort of protection? and what's the use of that hat?

 

[cj_iwakura]

Uh huh, I see

Just because a game's in a fantasy setting doesn't mean people need to dress in ridiculous outfits. I have nothing against Kamitami's character designs, just their fashion sense(or lack thereof).

 

[Sushigod7]

No, classy = modest and/or functional attire. Something a sorceress might realistically wear in a battle situation.

Your joking......right? You do realize the whole situation/game is fictional right? There are no sorceresses and wizards that fought giant dragons and monsters in medieval times. The whole thing doesn't need to be realistic it's fantasy.

Just because a game's in a fantasy setting doesn't mean people need to dress in ridiculous outfits. I have nothing against Kamitami's character designs, just their fashion sense(or lack thereof).

There is no fashion sense in the fantasy world. Sorry just doesn't happen in games, movies or comics.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Just because a game's in a fantasy setting doesn't mean people need to dress in ridiculous outfits. I have nothing against Kamitami's character designs, just their fashion sense(or lack thereof).

Nor do they need to dress in functional, Fire Emblem/Twelve Kingdoms-style outfits. It's fantasy, so anything is game.

Kamitani is clearly not aiming for verisimilitude here.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Just because a game's in a fantasy setting doesn't mean people need to dress in ridiculous outfits. I have nothing against Kamitami's character designs, just their fashion sense(or lack thereof).

Maybe that is one of the selling points of the game

I would never be interested in this kind of game, hell it will be my first Vanillaware title

The Amazon appeared, I said fuck it Day 1 for both PS3 and Vita

Shit sold me

Edit: I'm beaten by jiji and the post put it better too =/

 

[cj_iwakura]

Nor do they need to dress in functional, Fire Emblem/Twelve Kingdoms-style outfits. It's fantasy, so anything is game.

Kamitani is clearly not aiming for verisimilitude here.

Fair enough. I'm still hyped for the game, so it's just a nitpick.
(And I vastly prefer Fire Emblem's route for the most part.)

 

[SAB CA]

I guess my response to thumb won't be seen by most, as I added it as an edit to my previous post. Oh well!

They could've easily given the sorceress a more classy look, but eh, it's Vanillaware. The game will still be great.

I wouldn't call those "small breasts" anywho, as some mention. But generally in fiction, sorceresses are always about being crazy sexy; even in childrens animation, they generally spend a lot more time moaning and slinking along, rather than just moving and talking like normal people.

Even her description up there mention that she's using the "Evil Arts"; she might be a heroic character for the game, but all her features are drawn from the more vile, darker side of human nature.

It is kinda weird that the Dwarf is a walking male upper-body, and yet all we pay attention to for discussion are BOOBS. I guess if the Sorceress was draw with boobs half the size they are now, she'd end up having a similiar body to what the elf has now, with slightly bigger hips... given the rest of the world, that wouldn't stand out in the slightest, lol.

 

[Takao]

damn

why vanillaware have to be such jerks to xseed tho

also dwarf guy made of rock? His skin is cracking more than mine after a shower in February.

 

[kinggroin]

Let me turn that around: What's right with titillation? When do you thin it serves the interest of the game or media in question and when do you feel it is extraneous or a distraction? If the answer to the second question is "never," I doubt we can have a productive conversation.

Thresholds, we all have them. This game doesn't cross mine into the realm of being distracting.

Now if the witch and swordsman start fucking for no reason or he uses his erect penis in a drawn out special attack, threshold crossed. Maybe.

 

[blurrygil]

Do want now!

Love the art.

I contribute NOTHING to the thread!

 

[Sushigod7]

Thresholds, we all have them. This game doesn't cross mine into the realm of being distracting.

Now if the witch and swordsman start fucking for no reason or he uses his erect penis in a drawn out special attack, threshold crossed. Maybe.

That sounds like a memorable special move. lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

damn

why vanillaware have to be such jerks to xseed tho

also dwarf guy made of rock? His skin is cracking more than mine after a shower in February.

They aren't being jerks to anyone, they're just extremely tiny. I believe that it was recently mentioned that they only have around a dozen employees at the company. They can't really spare anyone to help with games they've already finished.

 

[duckroll]

I'm not a big fan of the huge boobs either. But honestly, if I had -my- way the Sorc would have glasses, slightly smaller breasts with cleavage showing through a robe which looks more like a business suit, and she'll have stockings on those amazing legs. So ultimately I think it's down to a preference on fetishes.

 

[UrbanRats]

No, classy = modest and/or functional attire. Something a sorceress might realistically wear in a battle situation.

This game has nothing to do with functional (nor "classy"), unless you missed very thing else about its artstyle.
Even the statues have tits with nipples poking out.

I'm not a big fan of the huge boobs either. But honestly, if I had -my- way the Sorc would have glasses, slightly smaller breasts with cleavage showing through a robe which looks more like a business suit, and she'll have stockings on those amazing legs. So ultimately I think it's down to a preference on fetishes.

Yeah but that wouldn't have been as ridiculous (yet still titillating) so it would've lost its satirical effect, imo.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'm not a big fan of the huge boobs either. But honestly, if I had -my- way the Sorc would have glasses, slightly smaller breasts with cleavage showing through a robe which looks more like a business suit, and she'll have stockings on those amazing legs. So ultimately I think it's down to a preference on fetishes.

What kind of glasses?

Which kind of stockings? Cotton or Laced?

A man must know

 

[duckroll]

What kind of glasses?

Which kind of stockings? Cotton or Laced?

A man must know

I've said too much. I'm going back into my nest! >_<

 

[Graphics Horse]

damn

Neat! love the highlight sliding down its tail.

 

[Black Door]

I'm not a big fan of the huge boobs either. But honestly, if I had -my- way the Sorc would have glasses, slightly smaller breasts with cleavage showing through a robe which looks more like a business suit, and she'll have stockings on those amazing legs. So ultimately I think it's down to a preference on fetishes.

I think you just described the teacher from GrimGrimoire

 

[duckroll]

I think you just described the teacher from GrimGrimoire

Hey what do you know, that's my favorite Vanillaware game!

 

[Sushigod7]

Maybe they will work in this line like Kinu Nishimura did in Code of Princess

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

My stance is still that they are ridiculously sexualized, dynamically exaggerated, and gorgeously stylized, and I have no particular problem with any of that in the context of this game.

It is a perfectly valid thing to discuss if you find this embarrassingly bad. Personally, I am as ok with it as I am with the gigantic, smooth chested he-man.

From a broader perspective, if we were to compare this to much of the output of Japanese fantasy-themed games, I'd even say I'm pleased to see such an adult-framed, meaty, muscular exaggeration of a female form as the Amazon, even if her young, mild looking face looks a little out of place.

I definitely agree we should avoid getting into the territory of bringing in how "real women" look, because real women look like everything under the sun.

 

[ubercheez]

I'd buy this game, but some of that stuff is too unrealistic and I'd feel embarassed playing it.

I mean, giant lizards that breathe fire? It's absurd that they'd represent reptiles in that way.

Haha, well played.

 

[pants]

I'll be replaying both D&D games waiting for this, it's like stepping into my childhood ;'(

 

[Sushigod7]

I'll be replaying both D&D games waiting for this, it's like stepping into my childhood ;'(

Same here was about to buy a Saturn just to import the D&D games last week. I still may depends on the news we get this weekend.

 

[kinggroin]

That sounds like a memorable special move. lol

Hence the maybe.

I'm not a big fan of the huge boobs either. But honestly, if I had -my- way the Sorc would have glasses, slightly smaller breasts with cleavage showing through a robe which looks more like a business suit, and she'll have stockings on those amazing legs. So ultimately I think it's down to a preference on fetishes.

Heh, in that case all female characters would be barefoot in the games I play :-O

 

[Taiser]

What really bothers me is that there are women with the body type of the Sorceress. I don't understand how people can call these creations inherently offensive without also thinking that the real women who look like this are also offensive, which is just shaming them for their physical form.

This. so Much this.

 

[thumb]

What really bothers me is that there are women with the body type of the Sorceress. I don't understand how people can call these creations inherently offensive without also thinking that the real women who look like this are also offensive, which is just shaming them for their physical form.

Then allow me to help you understand:

The women we are seeing here are the handiwork of artists. Every line and color reflects the intent of the artists or designers, not the bodily development (or body modification) of actual women. I'm not embarrassed by the latter, because it reflects the personified development or intent of the person in question.

But when artists attach gigantic, undulating tits to their video game characters, there is a sense that they are not attempting to simply represent one slice of humanity, they are just trying to awkwardly sell copies with titillation. You may disagree, but hopefully this helps you understand.

Also, I want to again state that I am not really "offended". That word should be replaced with "embarrassed", for the reasons given above.

 

[QisTopTier]

Maybe they will work in this line like Kinu Nishimura did in Code of Princess

That part had me fucking rolling.

Shout outs to people getting their panties in a bunch over the Seductive Sorceress and Buff Amazon Woman trope taken to the max levels.

 

[sleepykyo]

Realistically shouldn't she wear some sort of protection? and what's the use of that hat?

The hat channels magic. Metal armor interferes with spell casting.

I'm not a big fan of the huge boobs either. But honestly, if I had -my- way the Sorc would have glasses, slightly smaller breasts with cleavage showing through a robe which looks more like a business suit, and she'll have stockings on those amazing legs. So ultimately I think it's down to a preference on fetishes.

Zatanna then?

 

[radios shipping overview]

But when artists attach gigantic, undulating tits to their video game characters, there is a sense that they are not attempting to simply represent one slice of humanity, they are just trying to awkwardly sell copies with titillation. You may disagree, but hopefully this helps you understand.

Who are you to say that the only reason the female characters in DC have large breasts is to sell the game? They are consistent with the rest of the game's art style and similar to characters in some other Vanillaware games. I'd say the intent is more Frank Frazetta than Lara Croft.

 

[thumb]

Who are you to say that the only reason the female characters in DC have large breasts is to sell the game? They are consistent with the rest of the game's art style and similar to characters in some other Vanillaware games. I'd say the intent is more Frank Frazetta than Lara Croft.

You're right, I forgot that I needed formal, vested authority to make any inference about authorial intent, even if I couch it as being imperfect (e.g., "there is a sense that…").

 

[Saint Gregory]

The website is incredible and all of VanillaWare's games feature awesome music. It sounds like the same composer and I've never paid attention to who it is but they're wonderful.

And Boob-Witch is a little over the top - hilariously so lol

 

[i-Lo]

Yep, this is the game where hitomi tanaka has been transformed into a ginger witch.

 

[Protocol7]

It's freaking beautiful... are there details if it'll be 720 or 1080 on PS3?