Support NeoGAF

[vinnygambini]

Duckroll, does the article specify if it's $80 million or 8 billion yen?

If it's $80 million, then one would assume in yen it would be translate to a nearly 10 billion yen?

That's alot of capital.

 

[Miracle]

80 million- they would need to sell something like 3 million copies at full price just to break even.

Jesus, what the fuck were they thinking?!?

How many copies did MGS4 sell?

good god konami was the inspiration for fifteen million merits.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=lHjIXCCHh3s

This speech hits me hard.

 

[SolidSnakex]

MGS4 didn't cost that rumored figure

"It's being written in recent news that MGS4's budget was over 5 billion [yen] or 7 billion [yen]," Imaizumi tweeted. "It didn't cost that that much." If it cost that much, Imaizumi added, the game would've become multi-platform.

http://kotaku.com/5479974/kojima-productions-on-mgs4-budget-claims

That Wiki page is sketchy as actual budgets are rarely revealed publicly.

 

[Yokai]

To be honest, 80 million for a game that size isn't really that surprising. Shenmue 1 and 2 had around 50 mil budget iirc and that is a far smaller scale game.

How much of that 80mil was spent on kiefer, though? I don't want to know...

 

[Caffeine]

Thomas James
@iiotenki

Employees deemed useless have been known to do assemblyline work, security guard detail, cleanup at fitness clubs.

so kojima was demoted to a janitor ?

 

[miku]

Seems like a free account is enough to read it.

I don't think so. Free accounts just have a limit on how many articles they can access per week/month or something like that.

You don't. The registration system is a bit hairy, but there's a column you can click for an explicitly free account and then it's pretty straightforward from there. To actually read the article after registration, you have to click a button confirming you want to spend one of your 10 free article reads at the bottom of the page.

Ah ok, I missed the free account part.

 

[kng3025]

You know, I don't think there's ever going to be another MGS game on consoles/PC.

Or Castlevania... or Contra....

Announcing the new MGSM

Spoiler

metal gear solid mobile. P2w. Believe

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

It's worth noting that the article is also framed around Konami being the "Kozuki Empire". It concludes with the observation that patriarch Kagemasa Kozuki founded the company and remains the chairman of the company, while his son Takuya Kozuki is president. Other members on the board of directors related the family are Kimihiko Higashio, Kozuki's nephew, and Fumiaki Tanaka, Kozuki's son-in-law. In total, four out of the seven internal directors are family members. Not unusual in Japan, and honestly Asia at large, but that's probably a contributing factor to management and
transparency issues.

The "make them work cleaning fitness clubs" seems borderline class warfare.

 

[duckroll]

Duckroll, does the article specify if it's $80 million or 8 billion yen?

If it's $80 million, then one would assume in yen it would be translate to a nearly 10 billion yen?

That's alot of capital.

It says over 10 billion yen.

I knew FF7 was expensive to make, but 3rd highest of all time? Wow...

The Wikipedia list is bad and uninformative. It is a poor comparison because it is only a list of major games with "known" budgets via cited sources. It also ranks stuff taking inflation into account, but the calculation is in USD. FF7 is a game developed in Japan with the cost in yen. Converting the budget from yen to USD in 1997 and then applying the inflation of the US dollar is extremely misleading.

 

[Squire]

Kiefer Sutherland.

Right, right.

 

[James Scott]

Duckroll, does the article specify if it's $80 million or 8 billion yen?

If it's $80 million, then one would assume in yen it would be translate to a nearly 10 billion yen?

That's alot of capital.

I saw 10 billion yen which translates roughly to $80 million+

 

[GnawtyDog]

https://twitter.com/iiotenki/status/628065111891050497



That's not an insane amount for a AAA console game in 2015. Though the only Japanese games reaching that are probably from Square Enix.

Is that so? Any examples?

 

[the_batman]

To be honest, 80 million for a game that size isn't really that surprising. Shenmue 1 and 2 had around 50 mil budget iirc and that is a far smaller scale game.

How much of that 80mil was spent on kiefer, though? I don't want to know...

he probably doesn't have as much dialogue as Snake typically has, i'd say somewhere between 2 and 4 million?

 

[Instro]

so kojima was demoted to a janitor ?

Someone had to take over after IGA left.

 

[Tripon]

There was a suikoden?

 

[ClearData]

Umbrella like working conditions.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

You guys are focusing to much in budget when there is no real excuse with how they a treating their employes.

 

[Seyavesh]

lmao at all these people focusing on the budget of mgs5 when the company is toxic as fuck working condition wise

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Granted, it is still a big pile of money, but 80 mil spend on MGS doesn't seem to me totally outrageous ,

in fact For a AAA title an 80 mil budget sounds pretty normal to me.

Keep in mind it passed 80 million in April, and that figure probably doesn't include marketing, which is a massive money sink.

So it's very likely on the more expensive side for a AAA product.

 

[Rymuth]

Development halted for Suikoden? Noooo.

^^^^^^^^

Fuckin hell...I'm so bummed

 

[fedexpeon]

FYI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop

Shietttttttt, what is really surprising is that WoW cost 40M to make...
My god the profit from all these years...

 

[duckroll]

I saw 100 billion yen which translates roughly to $80 million+

Oku is 100 million, not billion. 100 oku is 10 billion. Also, 1000yen is about 8 USD, not 10,000yen.

 

[vinnygambini]

It says over 10 billion yen.

I saw 100 billion yen which translates roughly to $80 million+

Thanks!

Judging by the other comments, with MGS4's budget hanging around 5-7 billion yen, they've almost doubled development costs with MGSV, or have already.

Is new gen suppose to be this costly?

I know movie budget, but game budget figures doesn't seem to be thrown around often.

 

[Modest Mauser]

I wouldn't say it's not much for a AAA game. Even in the west not many hover above that, at least excluding marketing.

It's definitely an expensive game, but people in this thread are reacting like it's some never-before-seen number

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

lmao at all these people focusing on the budget of mgs5 when the company is toxic as fuck working condition wise

Seriously, I got no love for Konami anymore. Kojima still working there and still getting paid for a while, he should take them for all they are worth, and we still get MGS5, his last Konami/MGS game anyway.....burn that mother down!

 

[Krejlooc]

but 80million is a small price to many
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1085348

$80 million is not an outrageous AAA budget.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I don't know if I believe MGS5 being delayed is what forced Kojima out. Considering Ground Zeroes came out just over a year ago, I have to think they made some money to tide Konami over.

It just sounds like Konami's higher ups went ape shit over gambling, and started forcing others out to cut production costs.

Getting GZ out would have its own overheads, so would it make that much of a dent in the development costs of all the KJP stuff (Fox, Rising, TPP, PT etc.)? To Konami, KJP must look like money pit on paper.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Development halted for Tokimeki Memori and Suikoden, as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yLDTzHcZGY

 

[Socordia]

$80 million is not an outrageous AAA budget.

You should hire Kojima.

 

[Tripon]

$80 million doesn't seem outrageous. Also, part of the development of MGS 5 was to create the FOX engine, which if Konami is not going to jump on the unreal 4 train, is a valuable tool for them.

 

[Rajang]

Was gonna say, wasn't MGS4's $70M?

No, never confirmed.

$80MM+ and that's just development? Sheesh. Witcher 3 was less than half that.

Development of the Fox Engine has got to be included.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

It's definitely an expensive game, but people in this thread are reacting like it's some never-before-seen number

People are reacting like "let them work as janitors in our fitness club" is not disturbing at all for a corporation like this or how they feel they can get away with it because they are changing markets. Makes the stuff like the Gambling Law proposal more scummy if they feel entitled to do this as market changes.

 

[Socordia]

$80 million doesn't seem outrageous. Also, part of the development of MGS 5 was to create the FOX engine, which if Konami is not going to jump on the unreal 4 train, is a valuable tool for them.

If there are not gonna make a lot of games its not worth it.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

so what do they mean they had jobs for working security??

 

[Instro]

80m seems pretty minimal considering the development of this game includes the development of an entirely new game engine.

Pretty horrendous stuff though. Not surprising at all. Hopefully they just loan out/sell off their IPs, but they seem content to use all their shit for pachinko and whatever else.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

If there are not gonna make a lot games its not worth it.

"So lets exploit their employes and denigrate them."

 

[EatChildren]

The cost isn't surprising. Metal Gear is one of those series with expensive production requirements, and it's been long assumed Kojima and co are sticklers for quality/vision so much so that shit gets delayed and changed routinely. It would be nice to live in a world where money was no object, but it is, and I can see why studio executives and producers would be very frustrated with what to them seems like a lot of money burned on mismanagement, lack of vision, oversights, etc. Keep in mind numerous games from other studios have been pushed out early, scrapped, or moved over to entirely new teams for the exact same situation as we're hearing with Kojima Productions. And KojiPro is the kind of studio that burns out money on failed Rising builds. As Konami shifts towards aggressive, quick profitability (eg: mobile and F2P market) this kind of development process is seen as a massive waste of money and resources. If they don't feel that model is sustainable for their future, irrespective of how we feel, then so be it.

That being said, absolutely nothing excuses the abysmal treatment of employees. It sounds like after a long time a perceived waste of money from KojiPro the last delay of Phantom Pain was the nail in the coffin. Board flipped, crunched down on all staff and introduced absurd policies that would permit them observation and control of employee hours. They just want the game finished.

 

[tuxfool]

Shoot, the Tomb Raider reboot was $100 million.

The TR2013 budget is total. Dev and marketing. Expect around a 50-50 split.

 

[Boke1879]

If there are not gonna make a lot of games its not worth it.

Fix engine was going to be licensed out and used for other Konami games. It's being used for their Soccer games and I assume while Kojipro was developing it they assumed it would be used for other big franchises as well.

Hell Silent Hills was going to use it. Over time though it seems Konami had other plans. It looks like they want to get away from console and AAA development

 

[Socordia]

"So lets exploit their employes and denigrate them."

I don´t think it has anything to do with poster i quoted but ok.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Fox Engine would have been fantastic in the hands of a publisher who was still interested in AAA games. Instead, it will be used with MGSV and ProEvo for the next 10 years.

 

[Slayven]

Shiiiiit, tell me I had to put in hours at their gym and it isn't in my job description? I couldn't tell them to kiss my ass fast enough

 

[the_batman]

people saying 80mil is ridiculous, remember that Activision spent at least 500mil on Destiny.

 

[duckroll]

I think it's fine to think that 80 million is a fair development cost for an AAA game which could sell say, 5 to 10 million copies. What I do not think is a good look though, is if you feel that 80 million is a fair development cost given that it includes the development of a brand new engine. That is a factor which I think people seriously overestimate the value of.

If you have a huge pipeline of future games developed internally, and it makes more sense to develop an engine and toolset the entire company can use with full support internally, that might be worth it. An example would be EA using Frostbite. But if you're a company which is looking to reduce output on dedicated consoles, and only have a grand total of two big franchises which could benefit from such an engine left... where's the value? What would be the savings against just licensing a good engine like UE4 and going forward with that for the 1-2 games you're putting out every year? The investment in an engine makes no sense if that is the state of the company. Furthermore, by being willing to essentially let the developers of said engine depart from the company, it is a statement that the company sees no value in retaining a strong support crew for the engine and tools. This further reduces the value of investment in said engine.

If you ask me, I'll say that the outlook is that Konami is writing the Fox Engine off as a loss.

 

[Dawg]

I don't see what's wrong with letting ex-Metal Gear staff work as security guards.

These people worked on MGS for years, they have the experience.

 

[John Harker]

80 million for MGSV? Jesus Christ

About what i would expext, if not a little below.

AAA gaming is expensive business!
Risk is very real for smaller to mid tier companies. Failures could very much ruin a company. Lots of performance pressure if you don't have cash cows elsewhere.

 

[pants]

How much of that 80 million is engine development that will (well would have if Konami wasnt Konami) save them long run though. Sounds to me that it's unfair to put the entire burden ot the MGSV plate.

 

[the_batman]

If you ask me, I'll say that the outlook is that Konami is writing the Fox Engine off as a loss.

i think Kojima and his crew convinced Konami that he needed the new engine to achieve the photorealistic graphics he was after.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I don't see what's wrong with letting ex-Metal Gear staff work as security guards.

These people worked on MGS for years, they have the experience.

"Who's footprints are these?"

 

[OverdriveOtaku]

The Wikipedia list is bad and uninformative. It is a poor comparison because it is only a list of major games with "known" budgets via cited sources. It also ranks stuff taking inflation into account, but the calculation is in USD. FF7 is a game developed in Japan with the cost in yen. Converting the budget from yen to USD in 1997 and then applying the inflation of the US dollar is extremely misleading.

Yeah, I should've looked at it with a larger grain of salt, but for someone like me who doesn't really discuss much of the financials of these things, it just surprised me the handful of games that may be that high up on that list.

You guys are focusing to much in budget when there is no real excuse with how they a treating their employes.

lmao at all these people focusing on the budget of mgs5 when the company is toxic as fuck working condition wise

The info on how they're treating their workers is awful. I can only speak for myself, but could it be that less people in this thread are talking about the work conditions because there's nothing to debate there? That it is indeed bad? This IS the gaming side, I don't know what else I could personally say about how Konami may be treating their employees, and I don't know what else anyone could really say about the work conditions other than what's been said already. Just trying to assume some positive intent on those posting but not talking about the work conditions, I feel I don't have anything worthwhile to say on the sensitive parts of a topic like that.