-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nintendo 1H 2012 results - $367M operating loss, 5.06M 3DS, 5.5M Wii U forecast
- Thread starter Kazerei
- Start date
grimshawish
Banned
Ouch at the loss but sales are pretty good.
I think Nintendo is going to have to accept the strong Yen, its been what, a year since this started causing them financial trouble?
Problem for Nintendo now is the 3DS is hardly so profitable to bolster the WiiU.
Sales seems to have fallen with the Wii collapse; DS starting to end; and whilst the 3DS is up a lot on last year am guessing a lot of that was at loss. Thing is talking about how overpriced it is at market isn't the discussion to be had; making it profitable is much more important than short-term sales.
Hopefully things go well with the WiiU, and quite frankly the 3DS just needs to 'tick along'.
I think Nintendo is going to have to accept the strong Yen, its been what, a year since this started causing them financial trouble?
Problem for Nintendo now is the 3DS is hardly so profitable to bolster the WiiU.
Sales seems to have fallen with the Wii collapse; DS starting to end; and whilst the 3DS is up a lot on last year am guessing a lot of that was at loss. Thing is talking about how overpriced it is at market isn't the discussion to be had; making it profitable is much more important than short-term sales.
Hopefully things go well with the WiiU, and quite frankly the 3DS just needs to 'tick along'.
Teletraan1
Banned
They should have just had the consumer supply their own ram to lower costs further. At newegg prices that would have saved them $55M. 
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I would love this!
Not only for playing when and where I want, but also for bringing more of the outside world back into the living room.
I don't like how things are looking for the future of Nintendo at all:
- Shrinking handled market
- Little to no support towards the 3DS
- "Me too" console aimed to cannibalize the iPad and iPhone market rather than to create its own (WiiU)
- Rising production costs in a great depression scenario
- No new breaktrought IPs since many years ago
- Still not knowing nor caring about foistering a third party developer - friendly ecosystem
- Shrinking handled market
- Little to no support towards the 3DS
- "Me too" console aimed to cannibalize the iPad and iPhone market rather than to create its own (WiiU)
- Rising production costs in a great depression scenario
- No new breaktrought IPs since many years ago
- Still not knowing nor caring about foistering a third party developer - friendly ecosystem
Same quarter timeframe.
Ehh.... wow thats incredibly defensive and obtuse. I included those quarters so you can see the trend. It did way less the last two quarters and Nintendos current forecast is 6 million less than what the DS did in its equivalent year.
Its not rocket science. The 3DS is doing way worse. It did have a slightly better first year on account of the DS dying way faster than the GBA did providing less competition, but its falling behind and its about to fall behind incredibly rapidly.
Nothing disingenuous, I posted all the numbers so you could come to this conclusion without help. Check the next year as Bruno posted and imagine what the 3DS will do in comparison.
Are you talking overall or just West?
I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's pure robbery and irresponsible, but rather that the proliferation of cheap apps that do similar things in the mind of consumers has damaged the ability of the market to support Nintendo's demanded prices. But yes, I largely agree with your post here.
grimshawish
Banned
Nintendo looked at the DS and decided to do it on a console. Its not 'Me too' - its their idea!
So basically, HD gen. killing console manufacturer confirmed?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Great post.
I honestly think this is the last generation of expensive handheld game consoles.
I foresee a $149 launch price next go-around.
3DS is ahead of DS and about to go into a holiday.
Yeah, not really happy with the current development. The stock price is down by a lot.
I'm not too worried though, if I had some extra cash, I would buy some more. The market is going to look better, and hopefully Nintendo is ready to improve their own internal ressources. A new 3DS redesign in 2013 or early 2014 is what I wish for, the XXL is good but it lacks the portability aspect.
Well, and it would help if Japan finally turned some things around. The last two years are really bad for japanese companies.
I'm not too worried though, if I had some extra cash, I would buy some more. The market is going to look better, and hopefully Nintendo is ready to improve their own internal ressources. A new 3DS redesign in 2013 or early 2014 is what I wish for, the XXL is good but it lacks the portability aspect.
Well, and it would help if Japan finally turned some things around. The last two years are really bad for japanese companies.
Bruno MB
Member
West is basically overall for a company like Nintendo since the vast majority of their sales come from there. I find unacceptable the poor way they are handling their portable system here. In fact I think the 3DS is selling too much considering the poor variety of software (no western third-party support and Japanese games that take forever to come if ever).
Just an example:
For this Christmas season the only big Nintendo title in the West is Paper Mario: Sticker Star, while in Japan they will also release Animal Crossing: Jump Out and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Magnagate and the Infinite Labyrinth.
If Nintendo meets its fiscal year forecast, the 3DS will be 1 million behind the DS after nine quarters.
We all expected the streams to cross, but I think you're being a bit hyperbolic.
Ah no. In the west sure but the west has never been a big supporter of handhelds in general. In Japan the 3DS gets new games announced weekly it seems and the support for it is massive....even bigger than console support.
This makes no sense...the pad is not a tablet...lol it's a 2nd screen.
Nintendo has created new I.P's but they are on handhelds like the DS+3DS and the e-Shop.
Art Academy, Steel Diver, Dillon’s Rolling Western, Sakura Samurai, and Pushmo emerge on the 3DS recently.
On the Wii Pandora's Tower and The Last Story. Endless Ocean, Fling Smash and Xenoblade Chronicles.
You're getting it twisted because well Nintendo hasn't made any new I.P's that you probably care about.
Eh? Did you miss the interview with the one developer who said Nintendo's Wii U e-Shop was closer to Steam than PSN/XBL?
What then of picking up Bayonetta 2 from the grave? Or getting Platinum to develop a new I.P The Wonderful 101 and keeping the right to it?
Ubisoft is getting ZombiU bundled with a Nintendo console...which is a first for Nintendo.
The DS had a holiday too you know.
Nintendo themselves are currently forecasting the DS will be about 1M ahead of the 3DS after 9 quarters. After that it doesn't look back unless the 3DS suddenly sees an unprecedented increase in sales.
Not factoring in competition from their own handhelds (ie. GBA to DS, DS to 3DS) and launch-aligning simply makes the 3DS temporarily look healthier than it is compared to the DS. Nintendo will sell about 8M less handhelds in FY2013 than they did in FY2007 and next year . . .
Second Apr-Sept for both systems the 3DS did about half. If half is not way worse, I apologise.
chertipros
Member
What? Have you been following nintendo recently at all?
This is a main point. Neither Nintendo nor 3rd parties seem to really support the device with other than really safe products. Another Animal Crossing, great. A quick NSMB sequel? Awesome. It's no surprise that people are turning towards other mobile platforms with innovative games at low prices. Cannot talk about the Japanese market as it's irrelevant for most gamers thanks to another stupid business decision of Nintendo: region-locking.
Probably not. Wii U is pretty different.
I'd guess Art Academy was their last highly successful and new IP? 2010. Still, since then I don't remember much either. While I liked some of their new IPs like The Last Story, Nintendo completely failed to market them. Instead they put all power behind their safe bets like Mario, Zelda, or even the awful Quiz Party for Wii.
That doesn't seem to be true. They just don't seem to know how to build up successful third party relationships, if the 3DS lineup is any indication. For Wii U, some 3rd parties also seem to just ignore it or as if they have some grief against the platform.
chertipros
Member
Yeah. Iwata said the next few months are gonna be rough and I can see it. Especially if that restructuring rumor is true
Like the poster above said, DS had two western holidays in its first 7 quarters compared to 3DS's one. So it's an unfair comparison, but one that 3DS is winning nonetheless.
Your original argument was that 3DS was falling behind and about to fall behind further. But they haven't fallen behind yet. And you point me to Nintendo's future forecast as evidence of this?
And even if 3DS does fall behind DS, it's perpetually one holiday behind. Until it's fallen behind by 5-8 million, I don't think what you're saying has merit.
If Nintendo meets its forecast, the second Oct-Mar for 3DS will be 1 million less than the third Oct-Mar for DS.
Whee.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Where are the Fall titles for 3DS in Europe?
That's my beef with Nintendo right now.
That's my beef with Nintendo right now.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Paper Mario.
Paper Mario.
More Paper Mario.
I keep repeating myself and no doubt it's irritating, but I'll say it again; not globally releasing Animal Crossing in the Winter period is a dumb-ass decision. A big seller on the Wii/DS. Missing out on a Hallo'ween release for Luigi 2 is silly as well.
I also think purposefully delaying games to "space out" releases is silly and ultimately harmful. We've had four big titles this year (Kid Icarus, Mario Tennis, NSMB2, Paper Mario). Is that enough? Especially if you're not a Mario fan!
Nicktendo86
Member
I don't think it is all doom and gloom but the rise of smartphones and tablets really have changed the game.
I still think an all out partnership with Google would have been awesome, turn the WiiU gamepad into a full fledged Android tablet, day one the console would have hundreds of games. They could then release 'lite' versions of their games, Super Mario Bros etc on Android phones and probably get away with charging £10 just because it's Nintendo. I mean this would never happen in a million years (and probably for many good reasons) but I still think it would rock.
I still think an all out partnership with Google would have been awesome, turn the WiiU gamepad into a full fledged Android tablet, day one the console would have hundreds of games. They could then release 'lite' versions of their games, Super Mario Bros etc on Android phones and probably get away with charging £10 just because it's Nintendo. I mean this would never happen in a million years (and probably for many good reasons) but I still think it would rock.
StreetsAhead
Member
I'll repeat myself; Paper Mario is unproven on handhelds. It can use the holiday boost in the West much more than Animal Crossing. It is also probably more effort to localise AC and with Wii U, Paper Mario probably felt like the better choice.
Nintendo rely on their franchises far too heavily. Understandable to a certain extent, it's what gives them such a rock solid foundation. But my god, I can't remember the last Nintendo game that got me truly excited. SMG was maybe the closest.
They've basically kept the same core of games for 2/3 generations, which have seen incremental improvements at best. Nintendo don't excite [me]. If they are too scared to really shake up their existing IPs, then they should be getting new ones to market (which aren't based around Mii's). As I said in another thread, Sony have three brand new IPs coming out next year for PS3 - all three of these games have turned my head and that's where, as a gamer, my wallet is currently targeted.
In the interest of fairness I should acknowledge the new IPs coming to the Wii U from 3rd parties (and they do look good), but my beef is that we aren't seeing Nintendo's inhouse guys really shaking things up. It's early days and I fully accept that Nintendo hasn't announced a fraction of what they have in store for the Wii U, but going on the evidence of the GCN and Wii, I'm not holding my breath. Smash Bros, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing in HD and with a few extra gamepad mechanics are not enough to keep me filling Nintendo's coffers for another generation.
They've basically kept the same core of games for 2/3 generations, which have seen incremental improvements at best. Nintendo don't excite [me]. If they are too scared to really shake up their existing IPs, then they should be getting new ones to market (which aren't based around Mii's). As I said in another thread, Sony have three brand new IPs coming out next year for PS3 - all three of these games have turned my head and that's where, as a gamer, my wallet is currently targeted.
In the interest of fairness I should acknowledge the new IPs coming to the Wii U from 3rd parties (and they do look good), but my beef is that we aren't seeing Nintendo's inhouse guys really shaking things up. It's early days and I fully accept that Nintendo hasn't announced a fraction of what they have in store for the Wii U, but going on the evidence of the GCN and Wii, I'm not holding my breath. Smash Bros, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing in HD and with a few extra gamepad mechanics are not enough to keep me filling Nintendo's coffers for another generation.
dont know how many times it has to be said but releasing 'lite' versions of nintendo ip's on android/ios would be the beginning of the end for nintendo in the hardware business.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
All IS did on the GBA were Fire Emblems and Advance Wars. The Advance Wars were awesome, the FE were not as good as previous and not all were localized.
Can't remember much else they did.
frankie_baby
Member
There's also layton (3rd party but Nintendo published in the west)
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Nintendo of America has been an albatross for about 2 years solid now. The Wii U launch is the only thing they've handled well in that timespan. With limited Western 3rd party support and apparent indifference on getting translations in a timely manner, why should the West buy the 3DS in the same volumes as Japan?
Their digital store is going to require a new focus and increased visibility. Software prices are going to have to be more flexible. And making Black & White a DS game was nearly as dumb as making God of War 2 a PS2 game.
I fully expect the 3DS to underperform this holiday in the US and Europe.
Their digital store is going to require a new focus and increased visibility. Software prices are going to have to be more flexible. And making Black & White a DS game was nearly as dumb as making God of War 2 a PS2 game.
I fully expect the 3DS to underperform this holiday in the US and Europe.
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
I sort of have a feeling (or I'm just being really optimistic) that Nintendo is planning on using Retro Studios to create a new IP that'll have NA/EU appeal. Probably just wishful thinking.
As much as I love Metroid Prime and DKCR, I'd just love to see what Retro could do with their own IP. They're a fantastic team with the potential to create an appealing game for those tastes on Nintendo's new console that can hopefully push units.
That being said, having one team making one game on either platform for that audience isn't going to cut it.
The major problem I feel the 3DS has is that in Japan, there's a ton of great content. The Japanese 3DS library is way more interesting than the one in NA and EU -- and that's a problem. It's also difficult to get NA and EU teams to work on handhelds, so I don't really know what else they could do besides trying to work with their third party partners.
As much as I love Metroid Prime and DKCR, I'd just love to see what Retro could do with their own IP. They're a fantastic team with the potential to create an appealing game for those tastes on Nintendo's new console that can hopefully push units.
That being said, having one team making one game on either platform for that audience isn't going to cut it.
The major problem I feel the 3DS has is that in Japan, there's a ton of great content. The Japanese 3DS library is way more interesting than the one in NA and EU -- and that's a problem. It's also difficult to get NA and EU teams to work on handhelds, so I don't really know what else they could do besides trying to work with their third party partners.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Oh wow, you mean that game Japan's had since launch? Lucky us!
If they've got losses, couldn't they use a really safe bet?!
I imagine it's easier not to overship in Japan, given the country's size.
Booter
Member
correct. market cap of 1,457,774,000,000 JPY
divided by USDJPY rate of 79.85
equals USD market cap of $18,256,405,000
just for fun, compare with:
sony at $12,146,100,000
microsoft at $236,056,500,000
sega sammy at $5,007,848,309
capcom at $1,296,792,031
please note that this figure, "market cap", literally means (Number of Shares Outstanding x Current Price of Shares)
Japan is impressive. They literally sell what they ship :lol
Americas means also Brasil and other South America countries, no? The last quarter they were much nearer
Americas shipped: 420k
US sold: 395k
frankie_baby
Member
It'll depends how much they manufacture
frankie_baby
Member
So last quarter they have undoubtedly shipped less than what they sold
Well, if they only miss their 3DS hardware shipment by 1 million in the end, that won't be too bad.
If they have to lower it again though, they'll have revised the system down notably every year that it has existed and may want to consider a more realistic projection going into next year.
I can't imagine doing this constantly is good for investor confidence.
If they have to lower it again though, they'll have revised the system down notably every year that it has existed and may want to consider a more realistic projection going into next year.
I can't imagine doing this constantly is good for investor confidence.
If, and I repeat, IF, there will be new info on games, tomorrow is the day, with the Investor's Briefing.
Possibly. At the very least Iwata will give his president's address which is always full of interesting thngs.
grimshawish
Banned
Investors briefing tomorrow and theres noise about some announcements tomorrow too.