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Nintendo could've had a solid showing if they had played their cards smarter

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Neiteio

Member
DISCLAIMER: I hope this non-news thread is OK. I see conference-rating threads, "Best of Sony" and other reaction pieces, so I figure it's OK.

So... Sony had an incredible show. Given the history of TLG, FFVII-R and Shenmue 3 missing E3, year after year, and finally showing up, there was no hope anyone could top it (even if only one of those games will be released before 2017). Even without those three games, Sony still had impressive titles like my personal favorite, Horizon: Zero Dawn, which I like to describe as "Pixar's Brave with robot dinosaurs."

Still, I think Nintendo would've had enough material for a solid showing, at least, if they had done three things:

1) Save material for E3: Instead they announced some key items in earlier Directs.
2) Secure the ship: Prevent leaks like Smash DLC, the Hyrule Warriors upload, etc.
3) Focus on the Event: No reveals during E3 Week before the Digital Event.

After that, it's all a matter of framing the message correctly, and knowing what to show and how to show it. A lot of variety, in quick succession, with the intermittent bomb. Sure, hindsight is 20/20 and all, but it's sobering to consider the options they had that they simply didn't use.

The following is a possible idea — a scenario with no Micro Direct, no Smash leaks, no Mother 1 announcement at NWC, and other changes. I've described this before, but have since updated it with new information we've found out (like Amiibo Festival being F2P).


Here's what the Digital Event could've been in this scenario:

- STAR FOX ZERO: Immediately establish three things: 1) It's a collaboration with Platinum Games, with Hashimoto involved; 2) Say the graphics will improve, and they're targeting 60 fps on both the TV and GamePad; 3) Note the gyro is optional, and players can switch the GamePad view to TV at any time. Now proceed to explain the expanded mobility and combat options, like flying one way while shooting another.

- SUPER SMASH BROS: The Smash logo appears, and the Roy trailer plays. Sakurai quickly details Roy, Lucas, Dreamland 64, and the Miiverse stage, teases Tournament mode, Hyrule Castle and Peach’s Castle, and shows the Mii Fighter outfits (the outfits are shown on all at once, on a single frame).

- EARTHBOUND BEGINNINGS: Save the Skylanders segment for another time. A lucrative deal, yes, but not with the E3 audience. In its place, Itoi announces Mother 1 on the WiiU eShop, including its English-language debut, EarthBound Beginnings. A fabled title, finally coming to the West — available after the Digital Event.

- THE LEGEND OF ZELDA: First, reaffirm The Legend of Zelda for WiiU will come out on WiiU in 2016, and show new footage. Second, announce The Legend of Zelda: Triforce Heroes, and confirm single-player and online multiplayer right away — they took awhile to say it in the Digital Event. Finally, show Hyrule Warriors Legends, unspoiled in this scenario, with all DLC included and new content, including Tetra and the King of Red Lions, which can transfer to the WiiU version.

- LOCALIZATIONS: In this scenario, the localization of Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water would be confirmed here, alongside Yo-Kai Watch and Bravely Second End Layer. We would also see first English-language footage of Xenoblade Chronicles X and Fire Emblem Fates. Two versions confirmed for FEF. Keep it quick — bam, bam, bam!

- SMT x FE: In this scenario, the first footage of Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem would've premiered here, with a clear explanation of the game scenario. If it hadn't been shown a few Directs ago, it would've retained its mythical status of "is it still in development." Not on the same level as TLG, but still buzz-worthy had it been shown here first.

- DEVIL’S THIRD: It seems like Nintendo's not publishing this. They did show it during Treehouse Live last year, though. A new look at Itagaki’s game, both single-player and multiplayer, would have added variety. In this scenario, it wouldn't have been shown a week early.

- SPIN-OFFS: Present the following as "spin-offs" that aren't replacing anything, and keep their trailers short and sweet: 1) Metroid Prime: Federation Force, by Next Level Games; 2) Chibi-Robo! Zip Lash, with its own amiibo; and 3) the two Animal Crossing titles — Happy Home Designer and Amiibo Festival, the latter F2P. Note the connection between them (you can upload HHD homes to AF), and show the amiibo figures and cards. Keep it short.

- MONSTER HUNTER X: If they have any intention of releasing this worldwide (and I admit, they may not), they should've premiered this here.

- POKEMON SUPER MYSTERY DUNGEON: World premiere in this scenario, but keep it quick. Again, the idea is to keep the ball rolling with news.

- MARIO SPIN-OFFS: In this scenario, world premieres of 1) Dr. Mario: Miracle Cure, available after the show; 2) Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash; and 3) Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. Keep it quick, especially Dr. Mario.

- YOSHI’S WOOLY WORLD: Save the dev story for a separate upload. Instead, show a sizzle reel of later levels and amiibo support. Emphasize the inventiveness and challenge — something that will resonate with fans watching E3. Keep it quick.

- SUPER MARIO MAKER: Minimize the dev story. Focus more on the incredible variety of levels and wild enemy combinations. Detail the online features — the searching and sharing options. Note the amiibo support where you can play as Wii Fit Trainer, etc. Show the 8-bit amiibo and booklet. Keep it quick.

- “ONE MORE THING”: 1) Smash logo appears — Ryu trailer players; 2) quick overview: light/medium/heavy attacks, command inputs, FADC, two Final Smashes; 3) Suzaku Castle shown off; 4) tease about ongoing Fighter Ballot; 5) Ryu, Roy, Lucas, Suzaku Castle, Dreamland 64, Miiverse, and Mii Fighter outfits AVAILABLE NOW. Unspoiled in this scenario.


In conclusion:

The above obviously wasn't possible in our timeline (lol) because stuff leaked early (the data-mining of Smash DLC, Hyrule Warriors, etc), and Nintendo chose to show so much in other Directs and right before E3, when they could've saved certain items and consolidated the leftovers.

But seeing this alternate scenario, I think it puts into perspective they have a lot of good stuff coming out in 2015 and early 2016, even with this being a transitional period as they move toward NX and QOL. The message was just lost because the delivery was so off the mark.

How do you think they could've played their cards better (if at all)?
 

Skelter

Banned
Ryu coming to Smash was HUGE news. Why they didn't save that for their E3 Direct is beyond me. Earthbound as well.

I know I can't be the only who expected a lot more from Nintendo considering the previous announcements. It's like they were hyping us for something even bigger to come and then well...you know what happened. The only thing that could've saved their showing for me would be Dragon Quest 7 & 8 localization announcements.
 

Heroman

Banned
They had a great show for games you can play in the next 6 month, while Sony had games that you will play in the next year to 4 years. Both were OK.
 
It seems they are treating E3 as just another direct - but they shouldn't. I also agree that they should tease future games - even if they're over one year from even being decently played. And we didn't need 3 presentations in one month - focus on polishing one area and showing that.

I got no clue if they're making a new Metroid, and I'm not a super fan to be wishing for a new one right now, but announcing that spin-off (as fun as it looks after Treehouse) as a new Metroid Game - in the way they did, with no reassurance of what's to come - was completely bogus. Same with the AC and Paper Mario announcements.

Also for the love of god HAVE THINGS COME OUT AT THE SAME TIME. Stop treating regions as their own thing (and I'm not even talking about region locks). If there were no Japanese trailers for games you could pack so much more stuff in a single worldwide presentation.

(in this case, I feel like taking the first Smash thing out would work better - 2 days prior they announce Roy, Lucas and some stages, and everyone thinks that's it - the RYU bomb comes just 2 days later).
 
Posted similar rearrangement thing somewhere else. I really agree with you: these last two Directs definitely should have been combined with the Digital Event, to make it more appealing and surprising and preventing over-hyping.
 

Grexeno

Member
I feel like dragging Itoi out to announce Mother 1/Earthbound beginnings would backfire, as the second we saw Itoi we'd be like MOTHER 3 MOTHER 3
 

Geg

Member
It seems they are treating E3 as just another direct - but they shouldn't. I also agree that they should tease future games - even if they're over one year from even being decently played. Focus on polishing one area and showing that.

Yep. Someone said it in another thread, but focusing on near future titles in directs is fine but E3 needs to show more ambition. That's what everyone's expecting.
 
It seems they are treating E3 as just another direct - but they shouldn't. I also agree that they should tease future games - even if they're over one year from even being decently played. Focus on polishing one area and showing that.

I got no clue if they're making a new Metroid, and I'm not a super fan to be wishing for a new one right now, but announcing that spin-off (as fun as it looks after Treehouse) as a new Metroid Game - in the way they did, with no reassurance of what's to come - was completely bogus. Same with the AC and Paper Mario announcements.

Huh? Mario & Luigi x Paper Mario was one of the highlights of the show, alongside with Star Fox Zero and Zelda: Tri Force Heroes.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Yeah. I mean, in your scenario, it still would have easily been the worst of the big three conferences, but at least it wouldn't have been so depressingly mundane. There was NOTHING that made this feel worthy of an E3-special Direct.
 

Sakura

Member
Well sure, I'm sure every one would have a better presentation if there were no leaks. But that can be pretty hard to prevent.

I just feel they are a little out of touch. Why are they doing barrel roll jokes? Still?
Some stuff is difficult, they aren't going to show titles 1 or 2 years from now when they are NX titles. And as such there are a limited number of titles they can talk about.
Still, I think they could've benefited from showing more games, even ones we know about, like Fatal Frame or something.

In any case, this is just one year. Next year if Nintendo has a good event, people will no longer care about this one. They don't lose a ton by having a less than stellar showing.
 

SalvaPot

Member
All in all, what Nintendo actually have for this year is amazing. For the rest of the year we have:

2.jpg


There is a good 5 games I want to buy there, minimum, and that is ignoring 3DS.
 

BedBison

Neo Member
Cut out Skylanders and don't focus so much on Mario Maker and Yoshi, add in Bravely Second, Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon, Fatal Frame, Devil's Third, and Rodea. I also think they should have shown Zelda considering Miyamoto said they could have but didn't.

This still isn't the best but I think a large reason people were disappointed was because of what a underwhelming note it ended on. I'm not entirely sure how they should hav ended it but anything's better then videos of people wearing Mario costumes.
 

CronoShot

Member
I will forever be confused why they did a separate Smash direct beforehand. It's not like there wasn't any room in the Digital Event.

Sadly, that simple fact (and the Earthbound Beginnings announcement at the NWC) had me convinced that they had so much to show at the Digital Event, they had to announce smaller stuff separately. That, along with the abomination they're calling a Metroid game, was the source of most of my disappointment.
 

tbd

Member
Nintendo's entire marketing department acts absolutely out of touch with reality, we know this for at least a decade now. They were lucky with the Wii, though.

Yeah, they could have had a really good E3 direct. Great if the Nintendo World Championships counts.

It's sad. Let's not ignore the good things, though. So many people were asking for a new Star Fox, so many were asking for a classic Nintendo game developed by Platinum. There it is.
 
Huh? Mario & Luigi x Paper Mario was one of the highlights of the show, alongside with Star Fox Zero and Zelda: Tri Force Heroes.

It was one of the highlights (and probably my most expected title from the new ones) but it's a spin-off - and after two 'fake Paper Marios' (as the more vocal fanbase says), adding a third likely 'fake one' to the pile generates more backlash, as much as I want the game.
 

Bass260

Member
That reads like an amazing presentation. Most of all, it was possible. They really do have a great flow of content. Leaving games like Devil's Third and Fatal Frame out of the presentation and not mentioning the PG collaboration are baffling decisions.

I don't know how they fucked it up this bad. Especially after last years major event in which their presentation was stellar and on point.
 
Totally agree with this. It wasn't the announcements themselves, it was the way they were presented that came off so poorly. No idea what they were thinking.
 

butalala

Member
I love the slow-drip of Nintendo news as much as the next fan, but I think the "It's fucking nothing.jpg" of this digital event has shown that it can hurt in certain situations. Your proposal would have been much better. I think they could have also improved their showing by highlighting indies like FAST. Nintendo needs to start working with Indies as much as they can, since they're the only Western 3rd party support they can get.

I feel like dragging Itoi out to announce Mother 1/Earthbound beginnings would backfire, as the second we saw Itoi we'd be like MOTHER 3 MOTHER 3

This is a worthwhile concern, but I think editing the announcement so that it goes game footage, Itoi, game footage would have eliminated any misconceptions.
 

L95

Member
I really am baffled why they didn't show Ryu and Roy in at their E3 online event, showing them before raised people's expectations that they'd show something even more mind-blowing at E3

I was very excited for the Mother one thing as well, but yeah, that seems like it was a close miss, showing Itoi like that. (I quite liked his message though, he is a wonderful man.)
 

Chaos17

Member
Ryu coming to Smash was HUGE news. Why they didn't save that for their E3 Direct is beyond me. Earthbound as well.

Maybe they feared that people would get bored if the direct is too long ?
I don' know but I agree, they should've put it in the E3 direct.
It would've been more solid.
 

BedBison

Neo Member
It was one of the highlights (and probably my most expected title from the new ones) but it's a spin-off - and after two 'fake Paper Marios' (as the more vocal fanbase says), adding a third likely 'fake one' to the pile generates more backlash, as much as I want the game.

I don't think it's a Paper Mario spin off as much as it is a Mario & Luigi game that happens to have Paper Mario in it. The gameplay seems exactly the same as all the other Mario & Luigi games.
 
yep, probably not enough to "win" e3, or whatever, but the way the presented what they had was fairly poor.
I would've removed Yoshi and replaced it with some Fatal Frame V footage and an indie reel.
A lot of their reveals also fell flat. Mostly because of how they were presented. They were basically gameplay clips instead of actual trailers.
I would've also switch Star Fox with the "Let's Mario" charity thing. Ending with Star Fox probably would've left a better taste in people's mouths than the charity thing.
A trailer of the Metroid prime single player to show off the game would've likely helped ease the anger as well.
Last year's pacing was considerably better.
I can't help but mention the Yoshi segment...that's perfect for treehouse live, but that game didn't need to be there at all.
I think the Smash info would've been better suited for the direct. They could've said "stay tuned to Treehouse live for more info on the upcoming Smash update" Maybe even the Mother 1 reveal.
It wouldn't of been their best direct, but this one felt poorly put together and they could've done a lot better with it.
I still think that, with tree house live, the Smash direct, and the NWC, Nintendo had a good e3 showing, but that Digital event was really poor and undid the good will they got from their previous events.
And I think it has to be said that their line up for the rest of this year is pretty stellar with games of various different genres like: Star Fox Zero, Zelda Triforce heroes, Super Mario Maker, Fatal Frame V, Xenoblade X, Chibi Robo, Devil's third, Yarn Yoshi, Yokai Watch, Mario Tennis, and smaller stuff like the 2 amiibo centric animal crossing games, Fast Racing NEO, the toys to life games including the bowser/DK exclusive figures, and more. So its' not like they don't have content.
Man, imagine if the digital event had started off with a splash screen like

blAVpUU.png


That would have been fuckin HYPE
Oh, yeah, and stuff like this as well. They didn't mention that AC amiibo festival is free to download or you can buy the bundle that has a bunch of amiibo in it, There was no indie reel despite having a big indie event with 9 demos for people to try on the eshop the day of. There was a ton of stuff they just didn't cover or covered poorly, it's just shocking to see after how well they handled it last year and how well the NWC turned out. Maybe they spread themselves too thin with the micro direct, the smash direct, and the NWC.
Also, the Metroid Prime thing could've been avoided with one single sentence: "We know this doesn't play like traditional Metroid Prime titles, but we wish to give the fans something while we work on the next main installment of the franchise". Simple.
 
As much as I think this would've made a better presentation for the enthusiasts, and probably helped buffet a lot of the great press Sony is getting for "winning," I really think this scenario underestimates how many casuals keep up with E3 news.
 

RK128

Member
That would have been great; great pacing for everything, solid stream of announcements left and right, and making sure that Wii U owners feel like the console is still being supported. For a long time, the vile of the Wii U's reality hovers over the console like a hawk watching its prey, but Nintendo has been very smart from E3 2014 to Sunday June 14th; giving all of us the illusion that "The Wii U is fine and great games are coming fokes!"

But....the way they paced everything completely shattered that illusion and now people are very, very angry about realizing this reality :(. I can't blame them as I to fell for Nintendo's "illusion"; I was debating between getting a Wii U or a PS4 for the past few month because I loved Nintendo's effort and (and I still do) applaud them them for supporting the Wii U so well despite it mirroring the Vita's situation. But after their Digital Event and learning more about the NX rumors? I am done with thinking about the Wii U and while I might get the handheld version of the NX if it supports my 3DS games.....I'm done with them honestly :(.

Still love my 2DS though and I look forward to their future tittles (Paper Jam looks great to me and I love the Tri-Force Heroes concept :D), but still, they really could have done a better job spreading everything out.

Neitito, you should be the head of Nintendo's marketing team, as your layout for Nintendo's E3 would have been fantastic and it would have made them honestly have a much stronger appearance this E3 :D.

As it stands, I agree with you; they have a solid line up for the next few months and I think they are doing a much better job supporting the Wii U in its last year a hell of a lot better then both the GameCube and the Wii.
 

Neiteio

Member
Announcing EarthBound Beginnings and the new Smash DLC -before- the Digital Event was a huge mistake, IMO. Like I say in the OP, Ryu would've been an amazing way to end the Digital Event, and EBB and Roy would've been great bombs at the start.

Fatal Frame had a lot of fan demand in the West. Confirming the localization here would've been swell. And for the longest time, SMT x FE was a unicorn like TLG. Saving it for E3 would've been a good move, even if reactions would still be mixed (although that could be mitigated by properly explaining the scenario, something they did well on the Treehouse).
 

guek

Banned
Man, imagine if the digital event had started off with a splash screen like

blAVpUU.png


That would have been fuckin HYPE
 

Dad

Member
I feel like dragging Itoi out to announce Mother 1/Earthbound beginnings would backfire, as the second we saw Itoi we'd be like MOTHER 3 MOTHER 3
Clearly announce and explain what it is before having Itoi appear. Problem solved
 

Chindogg

Member
I actually agree with this. If they condensed the last couple weeks worth of announcements into one day they'd have a perfectly fine showing.

It sucks that people focus strictly on the Digital Event, but it is what it is. I think they've had a really solid showing for 2015 and early 2016 considering what they're doing, and I'm sure we'll see some stuff within a couple more months before making the huge push to NX.

I just wish they'd made the event a little stronger so the more casual fanbase didn't crush them in word of mouth.
 
I don't think it's a Paper Mario spin off as much as it is a Mario & Luigi game that happens to have Paper Mario in it. The gameplay seems exactly the same as all the other Mario & Luigi games.

oh, yeah, definitely, 'spin-off' isn't the proper word, but the point still stands somewhat

Announcing EarthBound Beginnings and the new Smash DLC -before- the Digital Event was a huge mistake, IMO. Like I say in the OP, Ryu would've been an amazing way to end the Digital Event, and EBB and Roy would've been great bombs at the start.

Imagine if they had only shown Roy/Lucas/Stages for the Smash Event. Everyone thinks that's it and on the Digital Event you get Ryu - BAM! That would be a shocker. They really messed up with the pacings of the reveals and leaking didn't help one bit.
 

Shizuka

Member
I think there should've been more Fatal Frame and SMTxFE, it's not like Nintendo announced lots of Wii U games there.
 

Kriken

Member
Wasn't Earthbound Beginnings a surprise announcement?

Yes, and when he was shown, most people thought Mother 3. I don't see how it would've been different if the surprise announcement was during the middle of their event *shrugs*
 

MilesTeg

Banned
Any way you cut it it's the same content that's on the table right now. It's frankly embarrassing for someone to need to come up with different scenarios that will supposedly make what Nintendo is offering it fans at this current juncture "exciting" or even just "acceptable". Just my two cents I guess.
 
Any way you cut it it's the same content that's on the table right now. It's frankly embarrassing for someone to need to come up with different scenarios that will supposedly make what Nintendo is offering it fans at this current juncture "exciting" or even just "acceptable". Just my two scents I guess.

The point is, the content itself actually is exciting, when you look at it. Nintendo just presented it in an incredibly mediocre light.
 

Mariolee

Member
I actually have a feeling that someone will actually do a re-edit of the Digital Event just like The Phantom Edit or something.
 

Chaos17

Member
Any way you cut it it's the same content that's on the table right now. It's frankly embarrassing for someone to need to come up with different scenarios that will supposedly make what Nintendo is offering it fans at this current juncture "exciting" or even just "acceptable". Just my two cents I guess.

It's better to be acceptable than hated xD
We're even worse than E3 in the grading EA post, lol
 

Neiteio

Member
The point is, the content itself actually is exciting, when you look at it. Nintendo just presented it in an incredibly mediocre light.
Exactly. Great games are coming, both big titles and small titles. But Nintendo spread them out in the preceding days and weeks, when they should've consolidated many items at the Digital Event. That, along with framing things correctly, better pacing, and complete information (Platinum on Star Fox, etc), would've done wonders.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
So much is being put on a "conference showing" and I think its just stupid. Nintendo had an all around solid E3. There was a very nice amount of content delivered without the need for some awe inspiring showcase. Shit, the stuff delivered by Nintendo in their direct will see the light of day long before most of Sony's stuff in their conference! I will be playing and enjoying those games before FF7 Remake sees a real gameplay trailer FFS. lol

Eh, whatever.
 
Hindsight's a bitch ain't it? No point dwelling on how what could've been. It's in the past. Focus on the future. A future of Federation Forge and Animal Crossing Party!
 
What happened to those two wiiu games project robot thingies?

One seems to be integrated in Starfox (no mention) and the other seems to be another Platinum Collab (no mention either)

I actually have a feeling that someone will actually do a re-edit of the Digital Event just like The Phantom Edit or something.

I may give it a try tomorrow
(lol no)
if someone can make a puppet out of me.
 
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