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[GhostTrick]

Shitty and lame excuse. Metroid Prime Hunters used a realisitic style, on a smaller screen, with smaller res, on weaker hardware.

The truth ? Nintendo is freaking clueless about their own IP. Just admit you fucked up, it's okay. But dont go on inventing lame, silly excuses for your incompetences.

 

[SatoAilDarko]

N-Space didn't make Hunters, it was made by Nintendo Software Technologies.

It also didn't have a ton of enemies on screen at once and just displaying the 4 players during multiplayer seemed to push it pretty hard.

You're right. I edited my post. Don't know why I always thought that.

Anyway yeah it didn't have a ton of enemies but it was the DS. This is the 3DS.

Also with how large enemies are in Federation Force there doesn't seem to be a ton in your view either.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Is this what the Wind Waker hate was like back then?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

So are we just ignoring Other M being released in 2010? That's six years.

Metroid and Metroid prime are different series. That's probably what they meant. It's the same as the distinction between 3d and 2d Mario.

Nobody expects nsmb to sate people waiting for a 3d mario.

 

[Shig]

In the end I think there is only two things Nintendo can do to not get complaints on how they handle the Metroid serie.

1. Make a AAA high budget Metroid Prime 4, preferrably for NX to get some wows for the visuals, aimed for the core gamers.

2. Make a AAA high budget Super Metroid 2, either 2D gameplay with 3D graphics like Ori or 2D gameplay with hand-drawn 2D graphics like Rayman Legends.

Retro Studio is the best choice to handle both or there will likely be unneccesary comparisons among the fans on which dev team is better as with Halo and Bungie/343.

Until this happens they're probably better off keeping the serie on hiatus.

They don't even have to go that far. If they would have simply thrown M2 a few bucks to make Super Metroid into a 3D Classic, the fanbase would be over the moon. If they would have trotted out something like that alongside the FF reveal, the immediate hate train for FF would have been far lessened.

For a company that leans on their classic franchises so much, Nintendo is really bad at leveraging their older games for low-cost efforts like that. It's absolutely insane that Sega put solid effort into cultivating a broad line of 3D conversions of their classics, while Nintendo did a few early NES games of little renown (Kirby aside) and then couldn't be bothered with the concept anymore.

 

[watershed]

Metroid Prime Hunters kept normal proportions, and it looked great and played great on hardware far less powerful. So I'm not sure I see the necessity of FF's terrible style.

It's not a necessity, it's a baffling design choice. I think Nintendo thought the chibi look would make the game more accessible but I feel like sales will tell a different story.

 

[GhostTrick]

Is this what the Wind Waker hate was like back then?

No, because Wind Waker was actually a fantastic game with an amazing artstyle. The shift in art isn't the sole problem. Not only it doesn't fit the serie but it's ugly. Like, really ugly. Shovelware class ugly.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Is this what the Wind Waker hate was like back then?

Well at least Wind Waker was a mainline Zelda and just came off the high note that was Majora.

It's been 9 years since a good metroid game.

 

[Aldric]

This is a spin off, it's taking the existing series and expanding it to include a different type of game than usual. It's not a reboot where they just trash the series and pretend it doesn't exist like they did with Devil May Cry.

You're right, that'd be Other M.

 

[Dremark]

It's only because most companies are not doing making games like this, If Nintendo put in the work to make a new 2D or even 3D metroid that was like the previous game, people would be willing to pay 60 dollars for it. This game has got the reaction because it feels like they threw the Metroid name on a game that wasn't made to be a Metroid game initally. It may be a good game or might not. We will see I don't have an expectations for it but I would love to see an actual Metroid game.

You're saying people would be willing to pay $60 for a Metroid game but there's a better argument that such a statement isn't true. I know Other M is hated by all but it was not far out of line from previous installments and bombed hard.

Because the last Metroid we got prior to this released 6 years and it was Other M.

And this is a spin off, not a mainline game. It seems really childish that people would make such a fuss over this that the president of the company ended up apologizing for disappointing people from his death bed.

If they're going to bring a mainline series game back it will happen with time. Being abusive to people like Iwata and Sakamoto isn't going to speed this process up, it's just going to make them feel bad (Iwata) or make them not want to be bothered and work on other projects instead (Sakamoto).

 

[Neiteio]

It's not a necessity, it's a baffling design choice. I think Nintendo thought the chibi look would make the game more accessible but I feel like sales will tell a different story.

Maybe they're trying to make it chibi/moe so anime fans in Japan find it "cute?" I dunno.

 

[The Giant]

Is this what the Wind Waker hate was like back then?

I think it's much worse than the Wind Waker reveal.

Hardcore metroid fans, don't want any spin offs with chibi style or any other style that expands the Metroid universe.

All they want is Samus in a realistic world. Nothing more.

 

[chaosblade]

I know Other M is hated by all but it was not far out of line from previous installments and bombed hard.

How so? The Metroid fanbase in general already complained about Fusion's linearity and narrative emphasis. Other M went even further in that direction.

They embraced the controversial elements of the prior game and it came back to bite them.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

You're saying people would be willing to pay $60 for a Metroid game but there's a better argument that such a statement isn't true. I know Other M is hated by all but it was not far out of line from previous installments and bombed hard.

Other m bombed hard because word of mouth rightly wrecked the game.

The correct answer from that would have been to do a pretty much by the numbers metroid 5 or metroid prime 4 before going off on a spin off tangent.

And honestly, I'm not sure why they didn't at least do a 3ds 2d metroid even if prime 4 wouldn't have been worth doing as a u exclusive from a money perspective.

.

All they want is Samus in a realistic world. Nothing more.

People would be more receptive to not playing as samus in multiplayer, just like in hunters, if it wasn't the first prime game in nearly a decade.

 

[Neiteio]

Other m bombed hard because word of mouth rightly wrecked the game.

Exactly. I skipped Other M when I heard about the awful storytelling and checked videos online to confirm.

 

[watershed]

Other M is a terrible game. There are so many videos, articles, Gaf posts that explain why. Let's not rewrite history to say that Metroid fans let Nintendo down by not buying and loving Other M. Nintendo let fans down by making a really bad game. That's ok. These things happen. But then we didn't get another metroid game for years, And now we're getting this. That's the problem.

 

[SatoAilDarko]

And honestly, I'm not sure why they didn't at least do a 3ds 2d metroid even if prime 4 wouldn't have been worth doing as a u exclusive from a money perspective.

There weren't any Wii assets to use like they could for Kirby and New Super Mario Bros. 2.

 

[Jobbs]

Their points about the chunkier characters being easier to see on the low res 3ds are true, but I'd say the game just shouldn't exist in the first place. It's a senseless co opting of Metroid for no reason. Fans will be irked because it doesn't have the look or tone or gameplay of a Metroid game, and for non fans it could be called anything.

 

[Aldric]

You're saying people would be willing to pay $60 for a Metroid game but there's a better argument that such a statement isn't true. I know Other M is hated by all but it was not far out of line from previous installments and bombed hard.

Other M isn't simply "far out of line from previous installments", it's the complete antithesis of what defines Metroid. It's a watered down, almost entirely linear 3d beat em up in the vein of Ninja Gaiden 3 with an overbearing focus on narrative (2 hours of unskippable cutscenes) and a low budget anime tone focusing on portraying a formerly iconic heroine as a stereotypical waifu.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

No, because Wind Waker was actually a fantastic game with an amazing artstyle. The shift in art isn't the sole problem. Not only it doesn't fit the serie but it's ugly. Like, really ugly. Shovelware class ugly.

I think the game is pretty ugly too, but you'd think the game was responsible for some heinous crime based n the amount of hate it gets.

Well at least Wind Waker was a mainline Zelda and just came off the high note that was Majora.

It's been 9 years since a good metroid game.

To be fair, if this were a mainline game, I think the outrage would be exponentially worse.

I mean, I definitely want fans to get the game they want, but I don't think this game is preventing that dream game from being made. I just think it's pretty unreasonable to suggest that Nintendo meet a main game quota before they're "allowed" to make a spinoff without getting eviscerated by Internet hatred.

 

[Dunkley]

Is this what the Wind Waker hate was like back then?

Wind Waker at least had the protagonist of the franchise as the main character and was a game that played similarly to its' predecessors.

To say Federation Force's art style is the only issue would be massively downplaying the issue. It rather is just the tip of a massive pile of issues.

 

[KingBroly]

Other M is a terrible game. There are so many videos, articles, Gaf posts that explain why. Let's not rewrite history to say that Metroid fans let Nintendo down by not buying and loving Other M. Nintendo let fans down by making a really bad game. That's ok. These things happen. But then we didn't get another metroid game for years, And now we're getting this. That's the problem.

Other M will never be Zelda Cycle'd. Ever.


And this game, visually, looks like shit. The fact that it's a Metroid game makes it worse.

 

[Shig]

I think it's much worse than the Wind Waker reveal.

Hardcore metroid fans, don't want any spin offs with chibi style or any other style that expands the Metroid universe.

All they want is Samus in a realistic world. Nothing more.

I really don't think people would be quite so upset with a different artstyle if it was executed well. A chibi style could work for Metroid, but not in this milquetoast Jet Force Gemini-lookin', How to Draw Manga by Christopher Hart-ass kind of way.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

There weren't any Wii assets to use like they could for Kirby and New Super Mario Bros. 2.

I honestly wish Nintendo didn't seem so terrified of making a sprite based game again.

 

[TH-Work]

I can't wait to play Metroid Prime: Federation Force Sure it's a different kind of a traditional Metroid Game, but sometimes different is awesome

Personaly I would have also wished a traditional Metroid Prime game like Metroid Prime 4, but on the other side I'm happy that Nintendo try's to create different type of game experiences like Metroid Prime: Federation Force

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

I honestly wish Nintendo didn't seem so terrified of making a sprite based game again.

They should hire fans like Sega did if they aren't gonna do it themselves...

 

[Dremark]

How so? The Metroid fanbase in general already complained about Fusion's linearity and narrative emphasis. Other M went even further in that direction.

The gameplay is relatively in line with the previous games and the change in linearity and narrative was an expansion on the direction of earlier titles (As you stated, Fusion in particular).

It wasn't a paint by numbers follow up, but it built on previous titles direction. They didn't reinvent the wheel they just pushed it further down the road.

Other m bombed hard because word of mouth rightly wrecked the game.

The correct answer from that would have been to do a pretty much by the numbers metroid 5 or metroid prime 4 before going off on a spin off tangent.

And honestly, I'm not sure why they didn't at least do a 3ds 2d metroid even if prime 4 wouldn't have been worth doing as a u exclusive from a money perspective.

The game came out in either a Monday or Tuesday and was in bargin bins by the end of the week. I don't think word of mouth travels that quickly and if the game had been something people really wanted the front loaded sales would have been higher.

Prime 4 probably makes sense but thier seem to have the staff for it busy on

Spoiler

fing Donkey Kong

other projects. A main line game doesn't. Considering what the series has been through I can see why they are doing a spin off rather than a mainline game (No indication the market will support it) or a Prime (Do we really want someone else to do it rather than Retro).

Regardless, it's just a spin off, I can understand not being interested but the salt level seems unjustified.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

They should hire fans like Sega did if they aren't gonna do it themselves...

I hope somewhere that Nintendo saw the positive reaction to sonic mania and perhaps got that it's an ok thing to do.

But there isn't really a taxman equivalent for the metroid series that I'm aware of. There are of course a lot of indie devs that make metroid vanias but none of them have ever quite scratched that same metroid itch for me. (Disclaimer: not saying they're bad games, plenty of them are very good).

The game came out in either a Monday or Tuesday and was in bargin bins by the end of the week. I don't think word of mouth travels that quickly and if the game had been something people really wanted the front loaded sales would have been higher

.


Word of mouth starts long before a game releases in the internet age. It's not like the 80s where we only got information from magazines once a month.

Exactly what's happening to fed force is a great example of word of mouth spreading long before release.

It of course didn't help that Nintendo way overproduced the game because they rather foolishly thought it was going to be the best selling title in the series. Someone got egg in the face there...

 

[Magicpaint]

Metroid Prime Hunters kept normal proportions, and it looked great and played great on hardware far less powerful. So I'm not sure I see the necessity of FF's terrible style.

Exactly.

 

[Malakai]

The suits don't really match up at all with Samus' suit. If they are copying the tech Samus suit shouldn't it be more "streamlined" and not chunky like the game? I don't mind the colors are all. The suits look so unnecessary bulky. Also, why do the Federation Forces fighters have to jump into the Suit? Why can't the fighters summon the suits like Samus does in the games?

 

[GhostTrick]

I think the game is pretty ugly too, but you'd think the game was responsible for some heinous crime based n the amount of hate it gets.

Nah, at worse it's getting "Booouh this man" kind of hate. Or even "Boooou-rns".
The amount of hate it's getting is more related to the fact that Nintendo doesn't know what people wants.
As I said, it's like serving meat to a vegan.

 

[Weltall Zero]

That actually makes a lot of sense. One of the issues with Metroid Prime Hunters was how hard was it to make anything out in that small a resolution.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Metroid Prime Hunters kept normal proportions, and it looked great and played great on hardware far less powerful. So I'm not sure I see the necessity of FF's terrible style.

Yeah... people are so quick to say that it's just whiny fanboys, but they made a decent looking Metroid game on the original DS.

 

[MattKeil]

I would honestly never guess this was a Nintendo-published game if I didn't already know what it was. Aesthetically and technically way below their usual output.

 

[KingBroly]

The gameplay is relatively in line with the previous games and the change in linearity and narrative was an expansion on the direction of earlier titles (As you stated, Fusion in particular).

It wasn't a paint by numbers follow up, but it built on previous titles direction. They didn't reinvent the wheel they just pushed it further down the road.



The game came out in either a Monday or Tuesday and was in bargin bins by the end of the week. I don't think word of mouth travels that quickly and if the game had been something people really wanted the front loaded sales would have been higher.

Prime 4 probably makes sense but thier seem to have the staff for it busy on

Spoiler

fing Donkey Kong

other projects. A main line game doesn't. Considering what the series has been through I can see why they are doing a spin off rather than a mainline game (No indication the market will support it) or a Prime (Do we really want someone else to do it rather than Retro).

Regardless, it's just a spin off, I can understand not being interested but the salt level seems unjustified.

Other M had a lot of anticipation behind it, but the revelation of the game having atrocious voice acting pretty much killed it 2 months prior.

Then the game got subpar reviews expected of a Metroid game, and concerns of the game being sexist surfaced.

Then the game came out and the backlash ensued. So don't come in and say 'oh, people never wanted it anyway' when Nintendo themselves treated it like a straight-to-DVD cash-in.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Nintendo shouldn't have to defend anything. Whiny fanboys are being whiny fanboys. It's kind of a shame that Nintendo decided to lower themselves to their level here.

"No one is allowed to criticise Nintendo" is essentially what your argument boils down to. Who's the fanboy?

 

[chaosblade]

Other M had a lot of anticipation behind it

That's an understatement. It was probably seen by most as the biggest announcement of that conference, along with Galaxy 2.

 

[25_Cans_Of_Bacon]

Art-syle, spin-off, it doesn't matter. It'd be a courtesy to even be able to afford those aspects addressing......but the game simply looks like dog shit. A minimum budget, lazy attempt I'd be hard-pressed to download off the Appstore for free, much less pay $39 for. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, but games such as Mario Tennis and Starfox (which I felt similar about and was proven right in my suspicions) have demonstrated to me Nintendo's ambitions as of late. Why should I expect much difference here?

 

[Dremark]

Other M isn't simply "far out of line from previous installments", it's the complete antithesis of what defines Metroid. It's a watered down, almost entirely linear 3d beat em up in the vein of Ninja Gaiden 3 with an overbearing focus on narrative (2 hours of unskippable cutscenes) and a low budget anime tone focusing on portraying a formerly iconic heroine as a stereotypical waifu.

Perhaps to you, but most of that direction was set in earlier titles. The earlier games were light on story but as they went on it was focused on more heavily, Super Metroid really started with it and Fusion had large amounts of dialogue.

Similarly you got more linear as the series went on too. Super felt less open than 1 and 2 did and Fusion took that even further.

The complaints about Samus and how she's been ruined as a character are honestly kind of hilarious. She was never defined as a character with a personality and was basically treated as a sex object from the start. From her animu Kim Basinger design, to her form fitting Zero Suit to your reward for being the game fast is seeing her take her clothes off.

If you want to say Other M is a bad game you'll get no argument from me but acting like it's a radical departure from previous games isn't exactly honest.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Art-syle, spin-off, it doesn't matter. It'd be a courtesy to even be able to afford those aspects addressing......but the game simply looks like dog shit. A minimum budget, lazy attempt I'd be hard-pressed to download off the Appstore for free, much less pay $39 for. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, but games such as Mario Tennis and Starfox (which I felt similar about and was proven right in my suspicions) have demonstrated to me Nintendo's ambitions as of late. Why should I expect much different here?

It just blows my mind that Nintendo doesn't seem to understand what Metroid fans want.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Perhaps to you, but most of that direction was set in earlier titles. The earlier games were light on story but as they went on it was focused on more heavily, Super Metroid really started with it and Fusion had large amounts of dialogue.

Similarly you got more linear as the series went on too. Super felt less open than 1 and 2 did and Fusion took that even further.

And every time, the increased linearity was a major complaint. Other m just took it past the 'right forget it. Enough is enough' point.

I actually don't agree that super felt less open than 1/2 either.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Its a spinoff, I'm fine with it.

 

[25_Cans_Of_Bacon]

It just blows my mind that Nintendo doesn't seem to understand what Metroid fans want.

Or they just don't care, and I don't know which is worse.

 

[SatoAilDarko]

Then the game got subpar reviews expected of a Metroid game, and concerns of the game being sexist surfaced.

Currently 79 on Metacritic with 71 reviews.

It was above 80 when it launched.

 

[ramparter]

Miyamoto, 2017 interview

Low sales of Federation Force indicated that players dont want over complicated experiences. Next metroid will be on rails shooter. At least people liked the graphics so we will make them even more goofy.

 

[Dremark]

Other M had a lot of anticipation behind it, but the revelation of the game having atrocious voice acting pretty much killed it 2 months prior.

Then the game got subpar reviews expected of a Metroid game, and concerns of the game being sexist surfaced.

Then the game came out and the backlash ensued. So don't come in and say 'oh, people never wanted it anyway' when Nintendo themselves treated it like a straight-to-DVD cash-in.

The scores for the game's reviews average at 7.9 on Metacritic which while not spectacular isn't exactly low. I don't recall the sexism accusations until after the game had been out for a week or two and I don't recall the voice work being a large complaint, although I'll admit with all the complaints I might not have noticed them.

Anyway let me at least clarify what I meant, I know there is a market for these type of games (to at least some degree, I don't think people will drop $40-$60 on one but there are people that want the series to continue) but the series has never been a huge seller and having the game bomb like that where it was obvious from the first week the game massively tanked does not communicate that there is a mark for this type of game.

If you had your career on the line trying another mainline Metroid game would be a difficult thing to justify proposing after what happened with Other M.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Nintendo shouldn't have to defend anything. Whiny fanboys are being whiny fanboys. It's kind of a shame that Nintendo decided to lower themselves to their level here.

But they killed muh Metroid.

 

[KingBroly]

Currently 79 on Metacritic with 71 reviews.

It was above 80 when it launched.

People expect 90's for a mainline Nintendo game like Metroid. A 79 on metacritic is not living up to expectations.

 

[Dremark]

And every time, the increased linearity was a major complaint. Other m just took it past the 'right forget it. Enough is enough' point.

I actually don't agree that super felt less open than 1/2 either.

Fusion upped the linearity quite a bit and was still well received.

It could just be perception but Super felt more linear to me than the previous titles. Not anywhere on the same level as Fusion or Other M though.

 

[Aldric]

Perhaps to you, but most of that direction was set in earlier titles. The earlier games were light on story but as they went on it was focused on more heavily, Super Metroid really started with it and Fusion had large amounts of dialogue.

Similarly you got more linear as the series went on too. Super felt less open than 1 and 2 did and Fusion took that even further.

l think you're talking nonsense. Super wasn't focused on narrative at all nor did it felt more linear than the first two games. Actually Super is probably still the best game in the franchise for sequence breaking. l also find it funny how you're completely ignoring the Prime games, which is really the only way one can attempt to defend the trainwreck that is Other M.

The complaints about Samus and how she's been ruined as a character are honestly kind of hilarious. She was never defined as a character with a personality and was basically treated as a sex object from the start. From her animu Kim Basinger design, to her form fitting Zero Suit to your reward for being the game fast is seeing her take her clothes off.

Ah yes, the old "Samus was a blank state!"song and dance. Not really in the mood to spend too much effort on this again so to keep it simple no she wasn't, actions define a character as much as words, and sexualization is the least of the issues with her Other M portrayal.

If you want to say Other M is a bad game you'll get no argument from me but acting like it's a radical departure from previous games isn't exactly honest.

Well sure if you ignore how the core gameplay differs, act as if Prime games didn't exist and turn Super into something it isn't then Other M isn't that different.