Honestly how much stuff this little device can do is so exciting to me. Now we just need some patents about the Pro Controller to confirm gyro
Yeah, that's what I expected. It's interesting, though, as that patent was one of the first things that came to mind when I watched the reveal video, with the Switch's form-factor being seemingly perfect to accommodate the tech. The joycon grip would potentially even allow the use of the passive controllers while docked. But choosing not to include it in this patent would be an odd decision if they were actually going ahead with using the functionality in Switch.
It does introduce a couple of questions, though, as there is more going on on the sides of the Switch than the patent covers. It's difficult to see in most photos, but the lighting in this photo allows you to see a few regularly spaced marks down each side of the Switch:
Here's a zoomed version which I've brightened a bit to make it easier to see:
There's clearly a lot more going on here than you can see in the patent diagram:
Aside from the communication interface at the bottom, the only feature the patent shows along the side of the Switch is a single hole to allow the controller to lock into place. It's possible that what we're looking at is just additional grooves/holes/whatever to help guide the joycon into place and lock it there, but I don't really see the need for it.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to finally find all these things out come January.
That support was extremely specialized though, for Smash Bros. only.
But we can take it to mean that the Switch is designed to do all these things and this means a 3rd party could fill in the gaps if they are ok with paying Nintendo a licensing fee.
Could be an add-on, but yeah. How would the QR scan from sun and moon transfer to the stars port then?
The Switch has two IR LEDs on the upper part of the screen, which can be seen, while it is docked. That's probably why the screen isn't completely covered (also a little space for some notifications). This way a IR sensor could work while docked and on the go.If the ir sensor doest work as a the wii one did, how does it?
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if their reasoning for excluding it is "You can grab the system from the dock and have a headphone jack." We know that the Joy-cons won't have them so yeah...I hope the pro controller and/or the grip will have a headphone jack for voice chat. I don't think voice chat will be a thing but one can dream.
Oh, I see, thanks.Not themselves but they are often used alongside an emitter and the patent talks about them.
The big question is, how are supposed to use the right Joycon, since it would be needed to be hold upside down? You can't reach the ZR and R shoulder buttons, which would be perfect as triggers (like the B-Button on the Wii-Remote).
I think a lot of people misunderstand why VR wouldn't work on the switch....if the screen is 720p you would only be looking and LESS then half that in VR mode. We are talking something like 512x288 right up on your eyeball.
Just noticed how easily we all have adopted the term "Joy-Con".
Never thought that would happen.
I like it. There will probably be name variations for other types of joycons, such as those from the patent pictures, or others that could come.Just noticed how easily we all have adopted the term "Joy-Con".
Never thought that would happen.
That's a good find, I'm not sure what that could be when looking at the patent. You could very well be right that those are the IR communication windows talked about in the other patent... It's also possible that there have been some more recent patent applications filed which aren't published yet, showing some of the things that are absent from this patent application (dock shape, kickstand location, SD card slot behind kickstand, etc.) which may include those IR windows. I guess we'll get a better look at that come January.
Looking at those images again, they look like they could be little roller-type protrusions designed to help smoothly slide on the joycons. Or maybe they make the *Switch* noise heard in the trailer.
The Switch has two IR LEDs on the upper part of the screen, which can be seen, while it is docked. That's probably why the screen isn't completely covered (also a little space for some notifications). This way a IR sensor could work while docked and on the go.
The big question is, how are supposed to use the right Joycon, since it would be needed to be hold upside down? You can't reach the ZR and R shoulder buttons, which would be perfect as triggers (like the B-Button on the Wii-Remote).
Edit: Wait I am wrong. There actually are no IR LEDs on the Switch ... So I have no idea.
Oh, I see, thanks.
It was a genuine question on my part (I know little about inner IR camera workings) and I've totally missed the emitter references in the patent, by the way.
I really really hope IR gets a second chance, it was a truly brilliant and revolutionary addition to traditional control schemes IMHO.
One theory from the past month is that the IR camera on the joycon R could be used to scan QR codes.
[0417] The main unit 2 includes a magnetic force sensor (referred to also as a magnetic sensor) 93 for detecting the intensity and/or the direction of a magnetic field. The magnetic force sensor 93 is connected to the CPU 81, and the detection results of the magnetic force sensor 93 are output to the CPU 81. In the present embodiment, the magnetic force sensor 93 is used to detect whether a protection cover (not shown) attached to the information processing device 1 is open or closed. For example, the protection cover is provided with a magnet, and the CPU 81 detects when the primary surface of the main unit 2 is covered by the protection cover based on the detection results of the magnetic force sensor 93. Note that when such a state is detected, the CPU 81 turns OFF the display of the display 12, for example.
After reading the patent I'm pretty sure the "magnetic force sensor" in the Switch has nothing to do with gyroscopes:
So I'm assuming the gyroscopic capabilities are just subsumed into the acceleration/velocity sensors.
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they're rollers or something like that to guide the joycon into place, but it would be a little unusual to need so many of them. (I'm also guessing that the switch noise is the locking mechanism clicking into place)
It does seem like there are a couple of different things going on there. There are two smaller, bright circles equidistant from the top and bottom and then a number of evenly spaced elongated marks which are a bit duller (or simply not as reflective at this particular angle). The two brighter marks would actually seem pretty well placed for little IR sensors for the passive controller tech, as between the two they'd cover the entire controller, and the fact that they're round and reflective would be a match for small lenses.
Of course, I could just be reading too much into a handful of pixels, as they're also well placed for a structural element, for example locking pins, or even just screws holding the main Switch body together.
The IR camera is for hand recognition. Thats what the patent says:
After reading the patent I'm pretty sure the "magnetic force sensor" in the Switch has nothing to do with gyroscopes:
So I'm assuming the gyroscopic capabilities are just subsumed into the acceleration/velocity sensors.
Correct. It's like my Pixel tablet (which I am using to post this): it detects magnets in specific parts of the case for shutting the screen off. Pixel tablet has a handful of magnets for its keyboard attachment.After reading the patent I'm pretty sure the "magnetic force sensor" in the Switch has nothing to do with gyroscopes:
So I'm assuming the gyroscopic capabilities are just subsumed into the acceleration/velocity sensors.
This, please. I want to be able to play Splatoon Switch on the Pro Controller the way it was meant to be played, with gyro controls.Honestly how much stuff this little device can do is so exciting to me. Now we just need some patents about the Pro Controller to confirm gyro
Correct. It's like my Pixel tablet (which I am using to post this): it detects magnets in specific parts of the case for shutting the screen off. Pixel tablet has a handful of magnets for its keyboard attachment.
It's cool stuff and very handy, but nothing earth shattering.
After reading the patent I'm pretty sure the "magnetic force sensor" in the Switch has nothing to do with gyroscopes:
So I'm assuming the gyroscopic capabilities are just subsumed into the acceleration/velocity sensors.
I like it. There will probably be name variations for other types of joycons, such as those from the patent pictures, or others that could come.
I repost this picture as I love the idea of interchangeable controllers:
I like it. There will probably be name variations for other types of joycons, such as those from the patent pictures, or others that could come.
I repost this picture as I love the idea of interchangeable controllers:
If I can get a 720p/60 (downsampled from 1080p or higher) Metroid Prime VR, I'll be fucking stoked.
.
The patent says that a controller without electronics can be attached to the R Joy Con. the movements would be detected with the IR camera... any ideas of how that would look like?
The patent says that a controller without electronics can be attached to the R Joy Con. the movements would be detected with the IR camera... any ideas of how that would look like?
Does it say that specifically? If so that sounds exactly like the patent from earlier this year that Thraktor has been talking about in this thread.
[0490] For example, when an attachment including an operation section (hereinafter referred to as an "extension controller") is attached to the right controller 4, the main unit 2 can detect an operation performed on the operation section based on the image-capturing results from the infrared image-capturing section 123. Therefore, the main unit 2 can execute an information process in accordance with an operation performed on the operation section by using the image-capturing results.
[0491] Specifically, the extension controller can be attached to and detached from the right controller 4, and include buttons and a movable operation section such as a stick, for example. The extension controller includes, inside the housing, a movable portion that moves (herein, the movement includes rotation) in response to an operation performed on an operation section. For example, the movable portion is a member configured to move in response to a button, which is an operation section, being pressed down. Here, the extension controller is attached to the right controller 4 so that the infrared image-capturing section 123 can capture an image of the movable portion inside the housing. For example, the housing of the extension controller is provided with a window portion, and the infrared image-capturing section 123 can capture an image of the movable portion via the window portion, with the extension controller attached to the right controller 4. Then, the main unit 2 can identify an operation performed on an operation section of the extension controller based on the position and/or the attitude of the movable portion in the image captured by the infrared image-capturing section 123. Thus, by using captured images, the main unit 2 may execute an information process in response to an operation performed on the operation section.
This Wii U does not do this. The Gamepad isn't the device and has no guts inside it; it isn't sharing an ethernet connection over Wi-Fi.
If you mean it might look and seem the same to the end user, sure. But peel back the skin and it's entirely differently.
Yeah it's a very interesting picture and you're right that it's very hard to gather much from it, but it's certainly something that's not shown in the patent application. Another thought is that the two shapes outside of the central shape could be little indents where the inner shoulder buttons of the joycons can be recessed. And it's a bit odd that it looks like there is an upper terminal in addition to the lower terminal shown in the patent application. Or rather than terminals those could be locking engagement members. Very interested to see some detailed shots of this thing!
And it's definitely an indication that they've added/removed features from the patent application since the June filing date.
Does it say that specifically? If so that sounds exactly like the patent from earlier this year that Thraktor has been talking about in this thread.
[0488] (Other Modes)
[0489] In the present embodiment, the right controller 4 includes the infrared image-capturing section 123. Therefore, with the right controller 4 detached from the main unit 2, the information processing device 1 may execute an information process based on the image-capturing results (referred to also as detection results) from the infrared image-capturing section 123. Examples of the information process include the following processes.
[0490] For example, when an attachment including an operation section (hereinafter referred to as an "extension controller") is attached to the right controller 4, the main unit 2 can detect an operation performed on the operation section based on the image-capturing results from the infrared image-capturing section 123. Therefore, the main unit 2 can execute an information process in accordance with an operation performed on the operation section by using the image-capturing results.
[0491] Specifically, the extension controller can be attached to and detached from the right controller 4, and include buttons and a movable operation section such as a stick, for example. The extension controller includes, inside the housing, a movable portion that moves (herein, the movement includes rotation) in response to an operation performed on an operation section. For example, the movable portion is a member configured to move in response to a button, which is an operation section, being pressed down. Here, the extension controller is attached to the right controller 4 so that the infrared image-capturing section 123 can capture an image of the movable portion inside the housing. For example, the housing of the extension controller is provided with a window portion, and the infrared image-capturing section 123 can capture an image of the movable portion via the window portion, with the extension controller attached to the right controller 4. Then, the main unit 2 can identify an operation performed on an operation section of the extension controller based on the position and/or the attitude of the movable portion in the image captured by the infrared image-capturing section 123. Thus, by using captured images, the main unit 2 may execute an information process in response to an operation performed on the operation section.
My guess is that the locking mechanism is at the top (which makes sense as the release button is at the top of the joycons) and the communication terminal is still at the bottom where it's best protected.
I suppose it shouldn't be too surprising that a few things would change from a patent filed the best part of a year before launch, but it is interesting to consider what those things might be. For example, if you look at the photo I posted before, there appears to be a difference between the two sides of the Switch:
On the left side of the Switch we can see the three central elongated marks (although less visibly elongated), along with a mark down at the bottom alongside the terminal, but we can't see the two bright circular marks I was talking about before. Now, this could simply be down to the different angles of the two Switches relative to the camera and light source, and that they're still there but simply not visible. However, if they are only on one side it makes their purpose particularly interesting.
As an example, let's say they are IR cameras. Nintendo actually have a couple of slightly older patent applications (which Disorientator posted to GAF here) which deal with using IR cameras for hand-tracking. The second one in that post (20160073017) is quite interesting for a few reasons:
Firstly, the patent deals with an IR camera situated on the right hand side (but not the left) of a tablet to use for hand-tracking. Secondly, the two named inventors of this patent, Yoshiyasu Ogasawara and Shinichi Kinuwaki, are also named inventors on the later patent dealing with passive controllers (along with two others, although none of the four are named on the patent in this thread).
What we're looking at in the photo is a pair of small dots on the right hand side (but not the left) of a tablet which happen to match the size and reflectivity one would expect for small IR cameras. This patent uses a single IR camera combined with a simple linear depth sensor, but it's possible that Ogasawara and Kinuwaki realised that they could implement both of their inventions by using two IR cameras instead of one, allowing the Switch to do the following:
- Full 3D hand tracking (using basically the same technique as Leap Motion)
- Support for cheap passive controllers with buttons anywhere on the controller (a single camera probably wouldn't be able to cover the entire thing)
- Support for 3D sticks/slide pads on the passive controllers via dual-camera depth measurement (this isn't covered by the controller patent, which only mentions buttons and rotating dials)
Furthermore, if they combined it with the first patent in Disorientator's thread (also by Ogasawara and Kinuwaki) they could use RGBIR sensors instead of IR and do all of the above, plus in theory it would be able to make full colour 3D captures of real-world objects to bring into games (not covered by any of the patents to my knowledge, but should be technically possible once you combine everything together).
Nintendo have a lot of experience working with cheap IR cameras as input methods from the Wii, and there's no reason they couldn't do something like this quite cheaply (although the colour 3D captures would require slightly more expensive higher-res cameras). We've also had hints at unannounced features, and comments like Todd Howard's discussion of an NDA'd demonstration at E3 as "probably the best demo I've ever seen" might make sense in the context of some crazy unannounced tech like this.
I just had a look through, and it says it here:
It seems strange to locate the IR camera at the bottom of the right joycon grip for this purpose, though. The controls would have to be located below the right joycon, which would make them near-impossible to use while attached and awkward when not attached. Especially when you could include the camera on the side of the Switch body instead (even just one camera on one side) and the attachment rails are already there and can accommodate an ergonomic control layout. It's possible that they've just included it here speculatively (as it's described as an example of alternative use rather than a core feature), or that they have changed their mind since the patent was submitted and moved it onto the Switch body itself.
I suppose it's also possible that they just included it here in a limited fashion to cover their bases, and were also working on another more detailed patent of the "extension controller" mechanism itself (as described above) and we'll see it in a few months.
It does warrant the question, though, that if they have added IR cameras the to side of the Switch since this patent was issued, then why do photos show us that there's still one on the bottom of the right joycon? Wiimote-style pointing tech (which I think most of us were assume it was for) doesn't seem to be covered in this patent, and all the other functionality which is mentioned could probably be as well or better handled by an IR camera in the Switch body.
I like it. There will probably be name variations for other types of joycons, such as those from the patent pictures, or others that could come.
I repost this picture as I love the idea of interchangeable controllers:
-snip-
I don't get it. Isn't the IR sensor on the bottom of the right joycon? Then it will be pointing downwards in every scenario, right? Except if you would turn it around that is, but then you would be griping the controller from the L/R buttons side which would be awkward as fuck, right? Or am i not getting this? Or, in the case it is for hand gesture recognition, how would it work with the IR facing downward?
My head is hurting, Nintendo!
(Edit: One of) The functions of that IR sensor mentionedthe most extensivelyby the patent application is for biometric identification. It literally uses IR light coming from the veins in your hand to determine your identity- which is apparently an even more reliable ID method than retina scanning.
You're right, 5% represents a niche, Yet it's more than enough to make the medium better than it currently is. You don't seem to have enjoyed the dreamcast days, with so many arcade games and peripherals. I'm the kind of gamer that wants this back.lol this will never happen. Or it will and be totally unsupported like 95% of Nintendo peripherals.
Yes, it does talk wirelessly to a different unit that has a tethered connection. No it wouldn't work the same way. The Wii U Gamepad uses a unique implementation of Wi-Fi Direct to transmit audio, video, and input back and forth between the console. There are no network packets passed to the Gamepad; they strictly go to the console.The concept of the patent is; the portable unit communicates wirelessly with tethered unit to access the wired connection. Semantics of whether the Wii U Gamepad has a typical processing guts or not, the method of wireless communication and/or range has absolutely no baring on the matter, especially since the patent doesn't go into great details about the requirements or limitations of this feature. To reiterate; The Wii U Gamepad can and do wirelessly communicate with the stationary device to access the wired connection. I won't engage in any further argument with anyone who insists it doesn't.
GameXplain time, 50 min video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlWBK8sq3eQ
Haha, the idea of a HMD to play a VC for Virtual Boy is so hilarious.
i talked about this in the list... The Joycon doesn't seem to have a battery inside, just a plug and power controller to recharge the Joycons.No. They just want to differentiate their patent from mobile controllers patents.
The battery pack is in the Joy-con grip.
Multiplayer possiblilies on a single Switch (docked or undocked)
1 console = 2 players
2 console = 4 players
Effin' brilliant.
Talked about this back in the October video when discussing the function of the LEDs in the grip.Yeah, but each pair of these is equivalent to a pro controller and they've conveniently left a 4 player pro controller setup out of the trailer, and now also the patents. It's starting to become concerning. And I feel like people will quietly accept that because as long as there's "trial" 4-player with 4 joycons and LAN-like play they'll be good.
What if:
-Right joycon's IR sensor acts as PSVR and Oculus cameras for positional tracking.
-Hmd has IR reflectors
-Pro controller has IR reflectors
-Alternatively maybe the joycon can be mounted on the HMD and tracks outward
-maybe with IR reflector gloves hands can be tracked
-HMD has built in battery to allow more power and extended play
-HMD sold seperately and has SCD like processing power for $200
-Docking to HMD essentally acts as another dock and Unit runs in "console mode"
-Tablet motion sensors aid in tracking, light sensor detects when user takes off the HMD
-Tablet screen is 1080p games run 720p with upscaler in "portable mode"
-Switch at $250-$300 + HMD $200 = $450-$500 price for VR, Console, Handheld with a
"Switch how you play" Slogan
If all is possible how much more viable is SwitchVR? Maybe the joycon can be mounted onto the hmd and tracks the ir reflectors on the tv as a point of reference and can still track your hands? With all these features it would essentially be a psvr in function and be enough for sit down experiences. This could possibly explain mention of additional docks and having motion sensors in the tablet itself along with a seemingly larger IR sensor than from prototype. 1080p might not be ideal for portable but they have mentioned its a console first with console level experience. I just wonder what impact a 1080p screen running 720p upscaled image would have on battery and IQ in portable mode. The HMD at least acting as a dock for console mode is the only way I see VR being remotely possible with the performance requirements. Fan noise might be an issue but most likely you would be using headphones anyway. Modularity and sum of all parts seems to be a heavy theme with the design of Switch so splitting all parts to combine for various things seems to make sense. I dunno, what does the Mighty Brainstorming Gaf Hive Mind think?