Omnistalgic
Member
Very nice
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No God of War at PSX 2016
- Thread starter Jacob4815
- Start date
I am fine with this. I am sure we will see plenty of other interesting titles.
I really need a Demon's Souls remaster, since my PS3 stopped working and it is the only Souls game I have never played and cannot play at this moment. Furthermore, a relaunch should give the game a living online community, which from what I recall doesn't exist in the PS3 version anymore.
If (a big if) there really is a BB2 coming, I want them to do what Activision did with Infinite Warfare and Modern Warfare, with the difference being that there also is an (financially less appealing) option to buy it separately.
I really need a Demon's Souls remaster, since my PS3 stopped working and it is the only Souls game I have never played and cannot play at this moment. Furthermore, a relaunch should give the game a living online community, which from what I recall doesn't exist in the PS3 version anymore.
If (a big if) there really is a BB2 coming, I want them to do what Activision did with Infinite Warfare and Modern Warfare, with the difference being that there also is an (financially less appealing) option to buy it separately.
I think they will aim for Holiday 2017 but it will end up being March 2018, like usual for the series.
Killer Queen
Banned
It would have to start development after they complete one of their current projects as I don't think they have the man power for four titles nor do I think that any of their titles are ready for a 2017 launch if they haven't been announced yet.
Well that's disappointing news after not seeing or hearing anything really since E3 but oh well.
Thankfully, and hopefully, Red Dead will make up for it.
YES BABY YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Simo
Member
Eh, RDR only had a 3 week delay, tops and with this in development since 2012 I think it'll be released between September-December 2017.
JuanLatino
Member
Ah ok i didn't know about the kids game, that changes the situation of course
My Bad
StrongBlackVine
Banned
i don't even think 2017 is on the radar for GOW. GT Sport, Days Gone and/or Detroit will try aim for late 2017 though. With Destiny 2 and as of now RDR2 both releasing in late 2017 I could see Sony pushing those as their main bundles and go light on first party again.
Just reiterating what I said yesterday the idea that the e3 demo was all smoke and mirrors makes complete sense...
Still no idea why they're trying to humanize Kratos who's a literal psychopath who destroyed an entire nation for revenge in the most violent way possible.
Nothing about the demo seemed hard to believe to me.In fact it all seemed much more believable than something like Horizon which still seems strange whenever I see it being played(& that's coming out soon)
Starting over with Kratos' story seems fine to me.A better effort than carrying on with his awfulness from the previous games.
DriftingSpirit
Member
What is strange about Horizon?
It just seems too fancy to be real,especially for an open world.
I am NOT doubting its authenticity btw.This is just the impression it gives to me.
This thread blew up overnight, LOL. Seems to me like GOW4 is in a similar situation as TLOU was back in E3 2012 when the former was first revealed. The E3 2012 demo also had pretty scripted AI for both enemies and ally (hunter searching in drawers, reacting perfectly to Joel running out of bullets and Ellie throwing the bottle at him at the perfect moment as well), a completely different UI and heavily scripted scenes that were not in the final game, such as Joel snatching the shotgun and being pinned down. Yet, the game released exactly a year later. Essentially, both demos are presentations of what we can expect, but not yet fully realized. Unless we have solid concrete evidence that everything in the GOW E3 teaser were not even implemented yet, I refuse to believe it's that far off.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
I'm so hyped for GOW, it s by far my most anticipated game, with Horizon not far behind. I just hope it looks as good as what we've seen so far.
Killer Queen
Banned
No worries,
But if anyone else wants to step forward and cause me of being a liar or agent of Satan I'm all ears
LiquidSolid
Member
The leak was that Sony had a three game deal, people just assumed one of them was Bloodborne 2 because of the CV that leaked. So assuming Miyazaki's telling the truth then, I'd assume "Bloodborne 2" is the new "Demon's Souls 2".
But whatever happens, there's next to no chance it'd appear at PSX anyway. That's the kind of announcement Sony would save for E3. A Demon's Souls remaster doesn't seem THAT unlikely to me though.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Just look at how fast the boy is moving to that specific spot at the camera turn and how he freezes up until the audio line that's supposed to make the viewer think the demonstrator pressed a command button finishes up. Or how many contextual animations he has and the egregiousness of the stat pop ups after those contextual animations are finished.
It was showing off the concept not the actual gameplay system that you'll see in the final game. It reminds me of when ND tried to say that this was how the AI worked in UC4 when it's just a scripted animation playing in this moment specifically
they eventually added ally AI freeing you from grapples but it was nowhere near as presentation friendly as that moment in the e3 demo as the camera rarely if ever zooms in like that and the enemies certainly don't react right beforehand since the only way to trigger team attacks is if an enemy is already stunned.
or here in the first video of WD1's open world when the game was in alpha, they made a chase scene and look at how Aiden as well as the camera locks into place here when they wanna show off the concept of contextual vaulting in interiors
they eventually added that in the full game but the camera nor Aiden lock into place like that.
or when Bungie added this to Halo Reach's demo:
you see that unnatural way Carter is getting into position in a similar way to the young boy? Things like that are always telltale signs in e3 demos of a scripted moment playing. Used in presentations and usually are indicative of something that the devs wanna put into the core gameplay loop. Some devs are better than others at hiding these sorts of moments, and the general gaming community doesn't notice or acknowledge these things since generally they actually end up in the full game albeit in a less presentation friendly way. And it's fun to see little echos of these moments, like Carter still going us and using armor lock despite the ghost being removed and ND left the enemy behind the door in that UC4 level and he rarely grabs you.
Also they aren't starting over the story, i'd have very little issue if they were doing a reboot. But this is post *destroyed a entire culture and section of the world* Kratos, who went to a completely different side of the world and is now a family man because I guess no one has heard of the bald dude with a very specific tattoo who killed all the greek gods.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
If the game is going back to the drawing boards and getting redesigned, I hope they consider playable Co-op with the son or other characters this time. I mean even FFXV didn't exclude the ability to add co-op in future DLCs.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's not getting redesigned they're just going into full fledged production using that vertical slice as reference for the full game in terms of tone and concept.
Nightengale
Member
The most mundane things in demos are the most unrealistic ones, like the examples Eden gave.
Basically anytime a supposedly dynamic gameplay system is presented multiple times in the most picture perfect framing and timing, it's 99% scripted.
Even if systems are already in place, when presenting cinematic games demos, I assume some amount of fake scripting is going on because you don't want the system to suddenly go wonky and choose to do something else that ruins that "cinematic moment "
Basically anytime a supposedly dynamic gameplay system is presented multiple times in the most picture perfect framing and timing, it's 99% scripted.
Even if systems are already in place, when presenting cinematic games demos, I assume some amount of fake scripting is going on because you don't want the system to suddenly go wonky and choose to do something else that ruins that "cinematic moment "
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
You mean that E3 demo was just an experimentation to check fans' reactions in order to decide whether to continue in that path or not.? Anyway I never doubted that the E3 demo is not an exact part of the full game.
It reminds me of the first Heavy Rain gameplay demo which had one of the main characters as the taxidermist killer but it didn't make it to the final game but was reelased as a DLC with another character.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I guess that is a compliment of sorts lol.
Killer Queen
Banned
I'm aware, I love From games and I follow what they're doing pretty closely, even Bloodborne since it was Project Beast, it's why I bought a ps4 and its pretty important to me personally. But I agree with what you're saying, I'm just irritated with everyone that complains about me hating the game and seemingly having some personal vendetta against it so I thought I'd make a post about the reasons it's not in development and yeah, there's definitely no way it's being announced here if it were.
I can see Armored Core being one of said contracted games while the kids game is for the NX. Their new "souls" game could go either way for Sony or multiplat, on one hand I'm sure Sony would love to have another souls game under their belt to convince more players to make the switch but if both the kids game and armored core are exclusives they might want to keep at least one IP they're working on and Microsoft did get marketing for Dark Souls III so they're relationship there seems to be fairly good.
I was hoping that they would have been in full fledged production this past few years they've worked on the game.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I mean they'd likely have to stick to their guns even if the reaction was negative. It seems more like a hype piece/proof of concept than anything else.
Remember that despite the promises of faster game development games have been taking longer to develop this gen, there's also a lot of other factors like the entirety of pre-production, like deciding on story, prototyping, setting, concept art, asset creation. I suspect this demo is the culmination of the game's pre-production phase and now they're fully prepared to tackle the full game itself with an internal release date and set budget.
Nightengale
Member
The game presumably entered full production back in March or something, since that was when they started hiring en mass up to 50 new headcount.
Chris Metal
Member
You can change how that section in UC4 plays out by killing the guys before Sully gets there, I have done this, plus I've had numerous occasions the enemy grab me and Sam help me out so not sure what you're trying to say. Also try and choose a decent gif of the boy running... it's bloody awful, it's about twice as fast due to cut frames compared to the actual video that I just watched of the gameplay trailer.
Nightengale
Member
What Crossing is saying that in that particular demo, that grab was scripted to happen 100% of the time to make the presentation more cinematic and show one of the new mechanics in the game seamlessly.
Primethius
Banned
That UC4 section isn't scripted as it doesn't have to play out and can easily be skipped. It's made so that it does happen if you walk in like they do in the demo, but it's not scripted to always happen and it's certainly not AI behavior only for that portion of the game.
The AI can grab you like that and allies do free you from said grabs. Happened to me several times, especially in stealth sections that initially turn into brawls before the guns come out.
So I don't understand the UC4 point. If the AI works like that, is your complaint that what they showed is too polished compared to a variety of cases that can occur?
^ Edit: The grab is scripted to happen in the same way as the demo in the game as well. Just not forced.
Edit 2: Explanation below. Polish thing. Disregard post above.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Find me a single gif of Sully helping you out in anyway similar to the way it's presented in that e3 demo, with the camera zooming in, or the enemy making expressions reacting to your ally suddenly coming up and grabbing them as they're attacking you, it seems you misunderstood the point of highlighting that moment specifically or weren't paying attention to the discussion. -_____- Let me highlight it for you, as it's found directly underneath the gif:
And no, I didn't reduce the framerate of the gif, or make it go twice as fast in anyway shape or form, that's the way it looks in the video regardless of the program you use to create the gif. In fact, here's a webm if you're gonna double down on this "gif framerate" nonsense. The animation itself is sped up unnaturally like that because it's a scripted moment just like all those other moments in other demos I highlighted in that post.
I've played UC4 on every difficulty, and played through that segment in particular multiple times, it does not happen like that in the final game. It's scripted, just like the destruction of the object that Nate punches the guy through, none of that is in the final game as it was a more presentation friendly scripted animation playing through the game, since you seem to have trouble, i'm not complaining, i'm explaining how and why these things happen as are other people in the thread but using visual examples. Find me one retail gameplay video of that grab happening in the final game like that.
This is a good test to see who actually bothers to finish reading posts before jumping to defend what they view as a complaint.
EDIT:See this is why it's good to finish reading a post before hitting reply.
Omnistalgic
Member
https://youtu.be/CJ_GCPaKywg
I'm still hyped from the trailer don't need to see more until closer to release.
I'm still hyped from the trailer don't need to see more until closer to release.
Primethius
Banned
Please don't be so quick to assume I didn't finish reading the post.
I just didn't understand it until I reread it after seeing Nightengales post clarifying it as I was thinking of a variety of other things when I initially read it, such as that games that do have canned animations that speed up other animations for the character to get into position and so on (or speed up animations and then cancel said animation to start the canned, scripted animation).
So I didn't understand the point you intended because I was thinking of actual game applications that are very similar to the examples you used as evidence of scripting.
Of course, I do agree with your point about the scripted nature of those games you outlined, but my confusion didn't come from not reading your post.
LiquidSolid
Member
The last game Sony funded that they didn't own was Spyro 3 in 2000, so nah, there's no chance Armored Core is one of them (or the kids game for that matter). Just because From have three games in development, doesn't mean two of them have to be the last two in their Sony deal. It's far more likely that they'll just do one Sony game at a time.
My bet is all three will be Souls-likes because a) Bloodborne's already shown Sony isn't going to tie Miyazaki down to an existing franchise (so he could make three new Souls-like IPs) and b) Souls-likes were the entire point of the deal in the first place. Sony doesn't need a mech or a kids game at all.
As for Microsoft's Dark Souls 3 marketing, that would've been more Bandai Namco than From. As far as I'm aware, there was no marketing deal in Japan and that's the only country From self-published it in.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Canned animations specifically like the ones I noted are usually sped up or just oddly janky looking since they're usually made for demo purposes, sorta like a placeholder. Little moments like that are put in a lot of games during scripted segments. You should actually go back and watch some e3 videos and see if you can find the more obvious ones.
Killer Queen
Banned
I don't think Sony will be picking up the kids game, I think that's what From is developing for the NX.
Not sure how I feel about all 3 exclusive titles being souls like, if they're all wildly different in setting and ideas in the way that Bloodborne is to Dark Souls it would be better, but I don't see them forcing them to be a souls machine either when they have talent elsewhere.
Wholeheartedly agree on them not tying them down to one IP though. People love to use the excuse that Bloodborne is popular and made money so that confirms a sequel, but logically it would've been a safer idea to just have them make Demons Souls 2 after the wild success of Dark Souls, instead they gave them creative freedom and he's outright said he's not thinking of it right now and said he wants to make new stuff so I definitely see it being a new IP or a radical reboot of an old one.
Primethius
Banned
Yea, that stuff is in lots of E3 demos but I've noticed it in lots of games that rely heavily on canned animations, though it's largely never as egregious as you point out rightly in your analysis.
I've been playing a lot of Hitman 2016 which relies on canned animations and that was on my mind as I was reading your post.
It has lots of canned animations (generally one per action, such as dumping bodies) and it does a lot of speeding up or cancelling other pre-canned animations when priority is placed on the event and if you try to trigger it from a strange angle.
Ascenion
Member
It isn't really starting over, this is the same Kratos as far as we know he's just trying to change his ways. Plus the Olympus/Zeus arc had run its course in 3, Ascension was just a step too far. And he wasn't really that awful, most if not all of his kills were justified. Zeus? Justified. Ares? Justified. Hades? Justified. The list goes on. Collateral damage is to be expected when you fuck with a dude on the level the gods fucked with Kratos. I dunno why people give Big K so much crap. It's not like he was just spilling blood for the hell of it. Plus he was still kinda human through all of it. Dude had hope and dreams...of murder but still.
LiquidSolid
Member
Ah, I completely misread the kids game bit. Sorry, I'm pretty tired.
Yeah, three wildly different departures from the other games is exactly what I was getting at and I think that's how you avoid the "Souls-like machine" you mentioned. Going with Bloodborne instead of Demon's Souls 2 was the right move and based on what Miyazaki's been saying, I'm guessing that would've been a big part of the reason why he agreed to the long term deal in the first place. It's a lot more interesting than just Dark Souls 4-6.
The problem with Kratos is he saw what was going on and continued on. He didn't hesitate or question his actions. He just kept going. The end sequence to GOW3 is proof of how insane and irredeemable he is. It's always been about him and his anger towards people that fucked with him. He didn't care about forgiveness. He didn't care about his family. He didn't care about the world. He's the villain. Not the hero.
Killer Queen
Banned
I'd like that a lot more and I'd definitely be down for that Bloodborne is special because it's different and we need more different things so I'm really excited for the reveal of this thing but I don't expect us to see it till next spring which is usually when these things leak.
Ascenion
Member
That goes for everyone. The gods also saw what was going on and continued to provoke Kratos and let the world fall into chaos for their own selfish desires. That's the point I think. No one is a hero in GOW. It's all different shades of red and grey even the only 'good' person, Athena, was in the end out for herself. A villain in a world of villains can't be one. Everyone in the series basically think it's all about them and that's what breeds the conflicts. And he did want forgiveness, it was denied to him. He did love and care for his human family, he'd probabaly do anything to bring them back. Kratos isn't as awful as he's made out to be. I mean no he isn't a sympathetic protagonist but he isn't meant to be. Yes he's irredeemable but then he wasn't seeking redemption. He set goals and he achieved them. I respect that. And that end sequence isn't even half of what Zeus deserved. I also wouldn't say Kratos is insane. Simply a man with nothing left to lose but a life he doesn't desire anymore.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Ascenion
Member
Kratos is absolutely as awful as he's made out to be.
He didn't kill that guy. He simply allowed him to die. He would've died anyway. Kratos needed the key.
because "shogmaster on neogaf said" that?
are we really taking "I live in LA and have multiple friends working at gaming studios" as a serious source?
I mean, the ending of God of War 3 has you pounding on circle as many times as you want as Kratos until you've gotten it out your system. He's a fucking psychopath, end of the story. You can't say 'he's not looking for redemption' when it's pretty evident that's what the point of this new God of War is supposed to be. He would rather die and take the world to Hell with him cuz he's been enough to get a Condo for free. He is not well.
He's not a human, he's a demi-god. That's a big difference.
Ascenion
Member
We don't know enough about the new GOW to say that. For all we know this could just be Kratos coming to terms with himself which isn't seeking redemption. I still wouldn't call him a psychopath. His dad basically wants him dead simply because of a prophecy. I mean Zeus basically pushed Kratos into his madness with his sketchy betrayals to avoid a cycle of son killing father. Zeus is more responsible for all of this than anyone. Kratos isn't innocent but the events of God of War 1-3 aren't his fault. He is a product of his environment. Not to mention he's saved humanity at least once before Zeus went paranoid.
Can't wait to see more of the game.