Skelter, Copeland, Kimmy, Helms and Alice. They basically took all the easy-to-translate/iconic ones.
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No More Heroes sequel announced for Switch [Up: Will begin development soon.]
- Thread starter FireBeaver
- Start date
Skelter, Copeland, Kimmy, Helms and Alice. They basically took all the easy-to-translate/iconic ones.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
This is gonna be so good. I hope they can have a trailer ready for E3 2018.
cj_iwakura
Member
Vampirolol
Member
Let me say that No More Heroes 2 is on my top three Wii games, behind SMG2 and Xenoblade. I love that game from start to end, it improved on the first one on almost any side, and Travis having actual character development felt really good. And what about the amazing soundtrack? I have many tracks of this series on my phone, it never gets old.
Suda directing a new game with Travis, and probably having some help from Nintendo is a dream come true.
Suda directing a new game with Travis, and probably having some help from Nintendo is a dream come true.
cj_iwakura
Member
On paper, it should be an improvement. More boss fights, no more driving around Santa Destroy, not as much grinding for money... but when you replay the original, something about the second just seems to lack the soul of the first game, especially no longer being able to explore Santa Destroy. A lot of work went into that crazy city.
Etrian Oddity
Member
Also, Travis is... the only character with development in the second game. There's no substance to the bosses at all except for Alice and Margaret.
cj_iwakura
Member
Henry in particular got wrecked. Shinobu wasn't too awful. Still wasted though.
The Cartographer
Member
Speaking of Shinobu...do you remember this?
https://www.gamnesia.com/news/is-suda-51-teasing-no-more-heroes-3-starring-shinobu
https://www.gamnesia.com/news/is-suda-51-teasing-no-more-heroes-3-starring-shinobu
cj_iwakura
Member
Sensei Travis could still become a thing. I doubt it though.
I completely agree with this. To me it feels more like a 90's era mission pack expansion, as opposed to an actual sequel. The gameplay is refined in some ways, but the sequel is too stripped down, and it's just nowhere near as good as the original game. Santa Destroy is certainly not among the best open-worlds of all time, but removing it entirely was a mistake.
edit: I hope they'll bring back Takada to compose the soundtrack for whatever this is
cj_iwakura
Member
Every killer in NMH1 felt like there was more to them than what you saw, like you only saw a piece of the puzzle. NMH2's are pretty much paper thin, apart from Alice and Margaret. (That picture of the burning photos, wow.)
In fact, I bet Suda came up with them.
TheUntamedLegend
Member
I am sure this was teasing Lily Bergamo, which was killed for Let It Die.
Vampirolol
Member
I understand what you mean, the second one definitely lacks a big part of the Suda atmosphere.
I didn't feel development in any character in the first one, really. Besides the master/apprentice part, bosses have always been amazing parodies of the media.
cj_iwakura
Member
The encounter with
Jeane
that she was already married and HAD A KID
Vampirolol
Member
True, that was very good, 100% Suda. Man, I want to replay both games now.
The difference between NMH1 and NMH2 I think, and it's really difficult to put into words, is a sense of "pressure".
All of Suda51's games have this sense of "pressure" to them, where the main characters feel like they're becoming further and further strained by the mad worlds they live in. The worlds of The Silver Case, Killer7, and No More Heroes all get more and more crazy as they go along until they all reach a total boiling point where that pressure gets blown off and the characters in the story are forced to confront both the world and themselves, and that isn't necessarily a pleasant experience or one they're even guaranteed to live through. Even when the characters reach the end of the story that doesn't necessarily mean everything was resolved for everyone, just for them, which helps make the worlds they live in feel believable despite their insanity.
I think even the open world and repetitive tasks in No More Heroes 1 help drive this home. Travis wants to be a big shot assassin partly to escape from his average life as an otaku living in a run down motel, but even then he's stuck driving around town looking for part time jobs that only seem to get more inane even as his escapades as an assassin become more surreal. In the end he manages to find what he was looking for in a sense, but now he's trapped in another routine that he can't find an exit from.
No More Heroes 2 doesn't really have this sense of pressure. Everything feels too "clean", I think, and none of the characters ever really feel trapped by their lives in the way that even a good number of the bosses of the first game did, outside of the #2 ranked fight. A bunch of weird shit happens, but it's always meant to be funny or melancholy and not really reveal much more about the characters that we didn't know already, and it doesn't have any real payoff at the end of the game. Compare NMH1's two final fights being thematically relevant and interesting to the actual joke of a final fight in NMH2. NMH2 may have been better mechanically, but I feel that it lost some of what made the first game (and also The Silver Case and Killer7) so memorable.
All of Suda51's games have this sense of "pressure" to them, where the main characters feel like they're becoming further and further strained by the mad worlds they live in. The worlds of The Silver Case, Killer7, and No More Heroes all get more and more crazy as they go along until they all reach a total boiling point where that pressure gets blown off and the characters in the story are forced to confront both the world and themselves, and that isn't necessarily a pleasant experience or one they're even guaranteed to live through. Even when the characters reach the end of the story that doesn't necessarily mean everything was resolved for everyone, just for them, which helps make the worlds they live in feel believable despite their insanity.
I think even the open world and repetitive tasks in No More Heroes 1 help drive this home. Travis wants to be a big shot assassin partly to escape from his average life as an otaku living in a run down motel, but even then he's stuck driving around town looking for part time jobs that only seem to get more inane even as his escapades as an assassin become more surreal. In the end he manages to find what he was looking for in a sense, but now he's trapped in another routine that he can't find an exit from.
No More Heroes 2 doesn't really have this sense of pressure. Everything feels too "clean", I think, and none of the characters ever really feel trapped by their lives in the way that even a good number of the bosses of the first game did, outside of the #2 ranked fight. A bunch of weird shit happens, but it's always meant to be funny or melancholy and not really reveal much more about the characters that we didn't know already, and it doesn't have any real payoff at the end of the game. Compare NMH1's two final fights being thematically relevant and interesting to the actual joke of a final fight in NMH2. NMH2 may have been better mechanically, but I feel that it lost some of what made the first game (and also The Silver Case and Killer7) so memorable.
Flakster99
Member
Great news. I love, love, LOVE this series. The 2006 E3 trailer of NMH is still one of my favorite trailers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgyxA-nzJCU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgyxA-nzJCU
mortal
Gold Member
Because it's not even a game yet? It would be cool to see something resembling a game or at the very least a proof of concept. I don't buy into empty announcements meant to just generate "hype".
Also, just because it's a partner ship between Suda 51 and Nintendo doesn't promise anything, Lily Bergamo originally announced for the PS4, was canceled, so anything can happening.
The Cartographer
Member
Oh c'mon, they do this for movies and stuff all the time and nobody say anything so if you don't like ''empy announcements'' like this one that just too bad fot you.
Lily Bergamo wasn't cancelled, it was converted into Let it Die.
RecRoulette
Member
Holy shit I forgot how bad Travis' voice was in this one.
DashReindeer
Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
I wish we could get a better translation of what Suda was saying on stage during the presentation. He talked for a while about meeting with indie developers to talk about the potential for the Switch, and I want to hear how that applies to what they are going to be doing with this latest No More Heroes, but sadly we got the most awkwardly inept translator ever. Obviously, they needed someone who was prepared to translate Suda's off the cuff remarks and they missed the boat on that one. I was hoping we'd get more interviews with Suda afterwards to shed more light on what he was talking about, but all we have to go off is the 4gamer interview, right?
Oh well, just getting antsy because it's the first time in quite a while that one of my favorite game directors is taking full reins over a game and I wanna know all the ins and outs.
Oh well, just getting antsy because it's the first time in quite a while that one of my favorite game directors is taking full reins over a game and I wanna know all the ins and outs.
I'm so glad they changed Travis' voice. Damn his voice sounded so dumb in that trailer.
The opening in NMH is one of my favorite openings ever in a game.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
No More Heroes 2 is missing a lot of the soul and drive of the original, but I still think it's a good game. The increased production quality is really, really impressive. It's gorgeous look, well animated, with better looking characters, environments, and effects. Hugely diverse encounters and stages too; it's a really big game with a lot of variety and I feel that works in its favour. You go many places and experience a ton of different things.
I also don't mind the guts of the story. There's some great characters and sequences, the broody call center intermissions are great, and I really like the theme of Travis's popularity bastardising Santa Destroy. I thought that was a fairly clever commentary on the original's success.
But it also lacked the biting wit and sense of pacing that worked in the original's favour. I totally agree with some of the post mortem assessments that highlighted a lot of NMH's rougher elements, like the boring day job grinds, as necessary to accentuate its strengths. Kind of like Nier, the rougher aspects bring the package together as a whole, and the drab, dull aspects work in tangent with Travis' character as an egocentric otaku gamer nobody. It has a lot of personality drawn from these elements that aren't traditionally good video game, and their absence in the sequel for the sake of technical/design improvements actually hurt the latter's personality in the long run. The sum total of parts in NMH2 aren't as distinct and unique as NMH, even if isolated those parts of NMH are questionable. It's very unique in that aspect.
That being said, and properly reading Suda's quotes from the conference and Famitsu, I'm not entirely convinced this actually No More Heroes 3 or equivalent. It sounds far more up in the air as to what will actually come of the project, particularly with Suda not committing to any single game style and aiming for collaborations. We're also not sure the scope of project that Marvelous and Nintendo are supporting.
So yeah. Excited as I might be, I'm definitely gonna hold some caution on this one.
I also don't mind the guts of the story. There's some great characters and sequences, the broody call center intermissions are great, and I really like the theme of Travis's popularity bastardising Santa Destroy. I thought that was a fairly clever commentary on the original's success.
But it also lacked the biting wit and sense of pacing that worked in the original's favour. I totally agree with some of the post mortem assessments that highlighted a lot of NMH's rougher elements, like the boring day job grinds, as necessary to accentuate its strengths. Kind of like Nier, the rougher aspects bring the package together as a whole, and the drab, dull aspects work in tangent with Travis' character as an egocentric otaku gamer nobody. It has a lot of personality drawn from these elements that aren't traditionally good video game, and their absence in the sequel for the sake of technical/design improvements actually hurt the latter's personality in the long run. The sum total of parts in NMH2 aren't as distinct and unique as NMH, even if isolated those parts of NMH are questionable. It's very unique in that aspect.
That being said, and properly reading Suda's quotes from the conference and Famitsu, I'm not entirely convinced this actually No More Heroes 3 or equivalent. It sounds far more up in the air as to what will actually come of the project, particularly with Suda not committing to any single game style and aiming for collaborations. We're also not sure the scope of project that Marvelous and Nintendo are supporting.
So yeah. Excited as I might be, I'm definitely gonna hold some caution on this one.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I think a huge part of the joke was how to pointless the city is. You've got this huge city to explore, but all Travis can do is watch anime, murder people, and work shitty jobs to fund said anime and murdering. On a deeper level, the entire city is nothing but an empty facade, serving no purpose but to give Travis an excuse to go on a killing spree.
Removing the city made it a better game, but a lesser experience, so to speak. I love the sequel, but it trades in a whole lot of heart and depth for mechanical improvement.
mortal
Gold Member
It doesn't matter to me who else does it, it's pointless. I don't understand how that's bad for me though? It's much better when a developer announces a new game after making substantial progress in development.
Which usually means you get a better introduction of what type of game it is, and that a release date isn't too far off. I don't understand how anyone could disagree with that.
i.e. canceled. The ideas were repurposed for another game (Let It Die)
RecRoulette
Member
Super Fire Pro Wrestling Switch with Travis Touchdown as a cameo. I'd still be there day 1. Just like in the other Fire Pro Wrestling game he wrote,
Travis kills himself in the end, fulfilling the "killing one's past" statement.
Monocle
Member
Yeah this.
mikezilla2
Member
well this is intresting , dos this mean that we could see ports of the older games to both the switch and PS4 of the new game and older games or is this an exclsive ?
kunonabi
Member
The dumbed down combat hurt it. It's solution to the original's problems was to rip everything out and replace it with nothing. The glitches didn't help matters and the retro jobs didn't mean all that much since you still end grinding one job since it makes more way more money than all the others. Everything about the game was half-baked and unpolished.
If you hated the music and bosses like I did then you end up with nothing to latch onto. Had the game actually been really solid to just play or had the writing been more consistent it might have gotten away with how stripped down and empty it was.
The Wheel of Fortune
Member
Wait, are you people suggesting that bosses from the first game like Dr. Peace and Death Metal somehow a better and more interesting character than Matt Helms, Captain Vladimir, and Kimmy Howell? I see absolutely no praise for any boss of NMH2 except for Margaret and Alice, which are amazing, but not the only "good" bosses of the game.
Anyway, the day this comes out is the day I purchase a Switch. Hope it's good!
Anyway, the day this comes out is the day I purchase a Switch. Hope it's good!
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Yep. Knowing Suda, that shit's going to feel veiny.
That translator died for our sins lol
While the ending of NMH1 is great, I do love the credits of NMH2 where Travis finally finds his paradise. And what a wonderfully bittersweet song to end the game on.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I honestly think NMH2 gets shit on too much compared to 1. I found the music equally as enjoyable, Travis went though even more development than he did in 1, and it had some great assassins (Margaret, Alice, Ryuuji, Destroyman 2, Letz Shake) and I love Shinobu so seeing her take a more prominent role was awesome
I'm so glad they changed Travis' voice. Damn his voice sounded so dumb in that trailer.
The opening in NMH is one of my favorite openings ever in a game.
He sounds like a character from Yugioh Abridged.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
NMH is the only successful thread I've started in 12 years
Etrian Oddity
Member
Was gonna write a long response, but it wound up being a NMH1 vs NMH2 dickwaving contest, so the short answer from me is "yes."
Skelter Helter is a way better fight than Death Metal though, no doubt about it.
theSlacker
Member
I didn't even think there was too much to Margaret, but Alice was my high point of the game. Sure she was better the most of the other NMH2 bosses but think she would have been low tier in the first game while Alice would have fit right in near the top. Thought Nathan would have fit in higher then Margaret.
Death Metal alone is a better "experience" then any of the ones you listed for me. His dialogue and then the monologue during the fight and how it related to the overall game to be exact. It was an explicit warning about the things to come and even got it's closure after the Henry fight at the end of the game. Death Metal gets very little credit.
But yes, mechanically there were better fights of course. NMH2 had a lot of that. Things that were mechanically better but missing the "soul" of the first game and that is what I always disliked about it. The game had passably enjoyable gameplay but I played it for the story, dialogue, and themes so just improving upon the gameplay with less of a focus on the rest was a loss for me.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
I liked NMH2 almost as much as the first one. I don't really get the praise for Santa Destroy though in the first game. I guess it was kinda fun to drive around on Travis' bike, but there was literally NOTHING to do except drive from marker to marker. It's not like this was Shadow of the Colossus where you actually had to explore to find the objective.
It would be one thing if the city weren't so dead... But as it was, there was nothing really engaging about it. I suppose it's nice that it existed for context, but as a world design/gameplay mechanic, it fell very flat.
It would be one thing if the city weren't so dead... But as it was, there was nothing really engaging about it. I suppose it's nice that it existed for context, but as a world design/gameplay mechanic, it fell very flat.
Spehornoob
Member
I've always enjoyed the idea that the first No More Heroes is basically a metaphor for being a crazy video game fan.
You have a big open world but the only thing for you to do is go on these crazy killing sprees. There's nothing else fun to do. But you have to pay for these crazy killing sprees by working boring, menial jobs. Even by the end of the story, major twists and story points are
Then the real ending hits and
No More Heroes 2 is the better designed game, removing the empty open world and making the jobs actually fun. But, in becoming a better game, it loses a bit of what made the first one interesting. Still love it though.
Gotta say, I never ever thought we'd see a new one.
You have a big open world but the only thing for you to do is go on these crazy killing sprees. There's nothing else fun to do. But you have to pay for these crazy killing sprees by working boring, menial jobs. Even by the end of the story, major twists and story points are
literally fast forwarded through so that you can get to the gameplay.
completely shatters any hint of the fourth wall.
No More Heroes 2 is the better designed game, removing the empty open world and making the jobs actually fun. But, in becoming a better game, it loses a bit of what made the first one interesting. Still love it though.
Gotta say, I never ever thought we'd see a new one.
UnemployedVillain
Member
What? NMH2 totally had the same metaphor, and actually took it much further than NMH1 did. Especially culminating with the pre fight scene with Margaret and the explanation of the name "No More Hero"
TheRedSnifit
Member
NMH2's theme is totally different. It's more a deconstruction of revenge movies and how "cool" assassins are. Of course, NMH itself deconstructs the latter with its psychotic, burned-out killers like Bad Girl.
No More Heroes goes way, way further than any other game when it comes to deconstructing gaming tropes. Its "open world" that contains literally nothing but things that appeal to the stereotypical male gamer, absurd plot twists that really don't matter, and a fight to the top that's both completely fake and completely pointless.
Etrian Oddity
Member
All Possible Ways
Member
I am having mixed feelings about this. While I loved NMH, the sequel felt very unpolished to me. Even discounting the mostly bland and forgetable bosses, final boss included, Shinobu played liked total ass, and Henry was playable only for a single boss, if I remember correctly. I also remember Alice stun-locking me with endless swords, and that felt really cheap.
Suda didn't direct NMH2.
All Possible Ways
Member
I see. Well, fingers crossed, then!