Yes. Unless I have been completely misinformed, the ratio was something like 2:1 in favor of Playstation last gen. That's hardly a surprise, since that was pretty much the story everywhere that wasn't US or UK.
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NPD Sales Results for January 2016
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
This is a subjective matter so I don't understand what you trying to argue because obviously is not a fact, it's something debatable and I presented my arguments of why I think that PS4 current level of success is linked to MS mistakes.
Anyway, about Original Xbox situation, very different market aspects to consider. A more powerful Xbox One leading to worst sales sounds extremely implausible for me (Unless the price was even bigger than $500).
I'd agree with this. Claiming the Xbox's fuck ups were the primary reason is just ridiculous. Secondary? A contributory reason? Sure. It assumes just because your previous console was a success your following ones will also be in perpetuity as long as you don't make huge missteps. That's not how the console business works at all.
Yup that was exactly my point. It was because of something they did right and not because of something the competitors did wrong. If that theory that you simply don't "fuck up" and you'll win would mean that the previous generation leader would just release an extremely safe console the next gen since they would assuredly win as long as they don't fuck up. People arguing for that theory are really trying to tell us that multi national corporations like Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft somehow all don't know this (if it were an accurate theory, which it is absolutely not) and instead follow up their hugely successful consoles with untested innovations, features, and ideas like getting rid of used games as we used to know it?
Wouldn't it be a given that the price would be higher than 500? they were already selling at a loss at 499 on launch.
It is just a bad business model to try to sell a "less performing device" for a higher cost.
There is no doubt others will benefit from it, because customers will go elsewhere, but that does not mean that the others would not have sold better than the competition if all things were equal in power/price.
slavesnyder
Member
Xbox fucking up isn't the reason for PS4's success, but it surely helps.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You can tell most of the people who are claiming MSFT's fuck ups were the contributing factor to Sony's success... well, their first console must have been the 360 when they were 10 years old and had no grasp of console history.
And that is the nicer side to put the perspective as to why you would make those comments.
And that is the nicer side to put the perspective as to why you would make those comments.
If they remain with Kinect default yes, I was thinking in drop Kinect and make a better console.
MS strategy with Xbox One was atrocious, hard to believe they actually thought that were on right track.
You can tell most of the people who are claiming MSFT's fuck ups were the contributing factor to Sony's success... well, their first console must have been the 360 when they were 10 years old and had no grasp of console history.
And that is the nicer side to put the perspective as to why you would make those comments.
Glad you said most and not all because my first console was an Atari 2600.
harrisk954
Member
None, other than those early estimates putting PS4 somewhere between 225k and 230k and the XB1 somewhere between 115k and 135k (Based upon what I remember reading last night!)
Keep in mind that Allan has been using this point in almost every NPD thread. Keep in mind that his perspective of the PS3 is a failure despite it launching a year later at a higher price and almost matching the xbox 360's total sales. Keep in mind he has downplayed PS4's success while being impressed with XB1s time and time again. Hard to have an argument about something like this when a person is that biased.
slavesnyder
Member
So you were one of the few wise men expecting Playstation to win this gen?You can tell most of the people who are claiming MSFT's fuck ups were the contributing factor to Sony's success... well, their first console must have been the 360 when they were 10 years old and had no grasp of console history.
And that is the nicer side to put the perspective as to why you would make those comments.
I posted all facts now show me some facts that show that Xbox One is responsible for PS4 success.
Xbox One is doing better than Xbox & Xbox 360 at this time in it's life so how do you give credit to Xbox One for PS4 success? What you're saying is a thought in your head about how things could have been but the facts show that Xbox One is doing better than the other 2 Xboxs so how did Xbox One get credit for PS4 success? if anything the extra sells would be coming from the Wii fan base because the Wii U is the only console that's selling worse at this time in it's life cycle than it's predecessor.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That was not the point of my post. The point was ignoring worldwide brands, and history with said product.
Some people act like Sony was a one and done console company in this thread. Well since the beginning of this gen, lol.
And neither Sony or MSFT technically "won" last gen, so...
Xbox One doing better than 360 and Xbox is relevant for the matter because...?
All discussion is about the impact of a better strategy from Microsoft for Xbox One, with I believe would result in better sales and lower PS4 sales.
Obviously it's not a fact ,in the same way you disagreeing also isn't
They were on right track(business wise), I can not think of one time in history that they been doing something with the consumer in mind.
I guess the terrorists are winning.
/s
Again I'm going to hit you with some facts!
Xbox 360 biggest success came when they brought out Kinect. what make you think that PS4 wouldn't have crushed the Xbox One without Kinect?
I'll go to dreamland with you & dream up Powerful Xbox One without Kinect vs PS4 with Camera as standard.
Maybe people would have seen no reason to buy a Xbox One because it's no different from their PC that has more games that they can get for cheaper. but PS4 with the camera could have grabbed the Wii & Kinect fan base & been even more successful while Xbox One got ate up by the PC.
now you see the problem with making up idea outcomes?
DriftingSpirit
Member
Any estimates?
The PS4 is ~36M and X1 is what? ~18M? How much of an increase and decrease we talking?
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Whole Europe is apart from UK. But it doesn't change the fact that it's the exclusives that sell those few Bones here. We're also PC heavy, so there's no reasons to buy Bone anymore.
I'm not gonna disagree, that if MSFT had released a comparable console to PS4 and shown that they would focus on gamers, they would sell more.
But due to them coming out and showing their true colors what PC gamers known for decades. They are now selling less.
Wii-U and PS4 selling more because of it, because by nature customers who are going to buy a console will buy something, and if its not xbox one it will be a competitor.
KillerMan91
Member
No one in this thread has acted like Sony was done after last gen. I actually don't see anyone even disputing that PS4 wouldn't lead the console race this gen even if MS hadn't screwed up. The only thing we are trying to say is that Xbox One would be a lot more competitive without the mistakes MS made in developing and launching the console (especially in US what this thread is about). Just like PS3 would have been more competitive from the launch had Sony not made the mistakes they made. Nothing more nothing less. How that is so hard to get.
Financially PS3 is still absolutely huge failure. It really depends on how you measure failure. By units shifted WiiU is massive failure. By how much company lost money PS3 is massive failure.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
That giveaway when you started playing video games last gen ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
You gave credit to Xbox One for PS4 success & I ask you how is that possible when Xbox One is doing better than any other Xbox while Wii U is doing a lot worse than the Wii. so how does Xbox One get credit for PS4 success when it's doing better then the other Xbox consoles at this time in it's life? where is the numbers that show how Xbox One made PS4 successful vs Sony always selling consoles & Wii being out of the picture as competition?
all you have is your thought of what could have been but nothing shows that a Kinectless more powerful Xbox One would have sold better but facts show that Xbox 360 sold better with Kinect & Xbox sold worse while being more powerful.
It's your dreams vs facts.
{insert code here}
Member
You're leaving out Vita, 3ds, PS3, Wii, and Xbox 360.
This is a U.S. thread. 360's year head start and then continual monthly beating of PS3 did make it sell a considerable amount more than the PS3 in the U.S. The PS360 generation was Sony's to lose after the PS2, and they lost it in the U.S. due to their higher price and later start mostly. The PS4/XB1 generation was Microsoft's to lose, and they lost it in the U.S. debatably for their pre-launch DRM nonsense, reliance on Kinect, and higher price (with Kinect).
Worldwide's a different story, and if allan-bh is speaking of worldwide, then, yeah, there's some problems there. U.S., it fits the general picture he's giving, though.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That is what YOU and a few others are saying. And of course anyone could agree.
I am talking those who are saying Sony's success was only due to MSFT's fuck ups. As if they had some storied history in console gaming. If anything, MSFT just proved the "3rd console curse" (with messing something up).
Do not pretend that there are those who are not running with this narrative. I do not know why you thought my comment applied to you.
No one's said it in those exact words perhaps but it's certainly been implied.
The problem statement I think most people take issue with is this one from allan:
"The major factor for the current level of PS4's success is not Sony, but Microsoft."
If you're telling me that's the numero uno factor then logically yes, if MS hadn't screwed up, PS4 would not be leading. You might be arguing that MS's failures are just a contributory factor to the PS4's success (which I think anyone in their right mind would agree with), but understand that allan is not arguing that unless he just worded that very poorly.
I don't believe most of us think that's true because Sony did an amazing job with the PS4. For MS to lead they would not ONLY have needed to not screw up, but they would have needed to do an even MORE amazing job.
It's the same with the 360. Even if the PS3 didn't screw up, I don't believe it would have beat it out. The idea of online gaming and the extremely polished way MS introduced it to the console space, with the incredible strength of CoD, Halo, and Gears at the time would have given it the win in the US regardless because of how much the west got into online competitive and multiplayer games.
Night Angel
Member
I'd say they messed up their initial product with the XB1 and have never recovered from it.
"Mandatory" Kinect pack in with no games.
Price point $100 above their competitor with a weaker system.
Married to the idea of cable as consumers cut cords.
They've made strides to correct what they can, but the console is still designed to be something most consumers don't find inherently appealing. The draw of hdmi in or kinect does not win out over what playstation is offering consumers, even at the same or a slightly lesser price point, if the current state of the market is any indication.
Somewhat Ironic that they are now being outsold 2:1 in US when WW ltd is 2:1 as well.
The tilt is real
super-heated plasma
Member
Its kind of funny to think the more PS4 sells, and Minecraft sells with it, it benefits MS. Thats some good compensation for losing.
ethomaz
Banned
I'm reading a lot of excuses about Xbone is doing good because it is ahead 360.
This is a false vision due frontloaded sales of Xbone and supply issues of 360 in the first years.
Even US the gap at end of 2007/2015 was 1.9m (11.1m vs 9.2) and now the gap is decreasing.
360 did 230k in January 2008 while the best estimates here put a 100k gap decrease over Xbone.
Talking about WW the situation is even worst because most of the WW gap come from US (these 1.9m in Xbone favor) and UK gap is offset by Japan gap.
The issue is that 360 sold like shit in EU until 2008... yeap the year 360 started to get stream in sales in EU correspond to 2016 for Xbone.
I don't see Xbone getting stream in EU like 360 did.
In fact this actual gap of ~2m have the days counted... end of 2008? Maybe but 2009 is a certain unless Xbone start to sell way better in EU.
This is a false vision due frontloaded sales of Xbone and supply issues of 360 in the first years.
Even US the gap at end of 2007/2015 was 1.9m (11.1m vs 9.2) and now the gap is decreasing.
360 did 230k in January 2008 while the best estimates here put a 100k gap decrease over Xbone.
Talking about WW the situation is even worst because most of the WW gap come from US (these 1.9m in Xbone favor) and UK gap is offset by Japan gap.
The issue is that 360 sold like shit in EU until 2008... yeap the year 360 started to get stream in sales in EU correspond to 2016 for Xbone.
I don't see Xbone getting stream in EU like 360 did.
In fact this actual gap of ~2m have the days counted... end of 2008? Maybe but 2009 is a certain unless Xbone start to sell way better in EU.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Someone should write a PR style article on this.
nycgamer4ever
Member
So it's logical now but not then? Face it Xbox is getting spanked, and that is before PS4 even release any games. /S
Whatever the reason it doesn't matter. If it's cause Sony made the right moves then Sony is knows what they are doing, if it because MS's fuck ups then MS is dumb and inept and doesn't know what they are doing. Either way MS is getting spanked.
you are just making the argument that MS is dumb, inept and doesn't know what they are doing.
I said 65k for 3DS.
slavesnyder
Member
This minecraft-thing is also something I don't get.
Microsoft paid an aeroplane full of money for this. Do we even know they recouped already? People act as if it prints money. I have the feeling it's still paying it's debts.
Please correct me if i'm wrong.
ethomaz
Banned
First they need to recover the $2 billion investment and I don't thing that will happen in the next 5 years.
I don't even believe GTAV with 6 copies sold profited $1 billion.
I believe they need to sell millions and millions of Minecraft to cover these $2 billion.
slavesnyder
Member
This. 360 and XboxOne will soon cross streams and then never again if nothing really extraordinary happens.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Of course but you have to look at it in all aspects .
Wii U will not lose Nintendo as much money as PS3 but the damage done to the brand could be just as bad .
ninjablade
Banned
you're being ridiculous here. when the first xbox came out, it had no brand awareness, came out like a year and half after the ps2, which had already won the generation by then and already the most powerful brand in console gaming thanks to the playstation. now playstation is easily the most powerful brand in console gaming, they made tons of mistakes with ps3 and let xbox 360, take marketshare and establish a solid brand in gaming. 360 also took advantage of the motion control fad, and sold a extra 10-15 million units, but by the time the xbone came out the motion controls were dead, and only hurt the xbone, in every way possible, from design to power, to cost, and in the age of google it, people are more aware that the ps4 was the much better hardware to buy, and looked so much better design wise. if microsoft made the xbone to look exactly like the ps4 with the same specs, and sony made a console that looked like the xbone with same specs, i think microsoft console would be selling much better, sure it won't beat sony's cause of the powerful gaming brand WW, but it would be doing much better.
They probably haven't recouped their full investment, but it's a sure thing. Merchandizing alone will carry them super super far, especially if they decide to make another Minecraft game in the future.
GravityInsanity
Member
I don't really see it benefiting much considering that the PS4 version is being outsold by the X360 & Xbox One.
Microsoft has a lot of money outside the USA which they can't bring in the country without paying taxes. I assume they used this useless cash while adding value to the company.
cartographer
Member
It prints money.
It's also possible they haven't recouped their investment on it yet, which isn't a big deal because it prints money.
It hasn't even been two years. Minecraft is going to print money for MS for a long time.
KillerMan91
Member
Well I was thinking about this post you made:
It kinda implies that anyone claiming that MSs fuck ups were a big reason why race in US has went how it has were Xbox fanboys so I thought I was one of the persons it was meant for but no worries if it was not the case =). And of course in this kind of threads there are always console warriors by all sides posting shit but you can usually separate those post rather easily from those that actually try to contribute.You can tell most of the people who are claiming MSFT's fuck ups were the contributing factor to Sony's success... well, their first console must have been the 360 when they were 10 years old and had no grasp of console history.
And that is the nicer side to put the perspective as to why you would make those comments.
Well of course I can't speak for Allan but he has several times clarified that of course he believes it's combination of Sony doing great and MS fucking up. I don't see anything controversial in that. People just focus on the first post he made about the subject.
slavesnyder
Member
Now this is something i can understand. Together with fatforall's merchandising and perspective reasons.
But people claiming that minecraft sales on ps4 is making them rich... Meh.
Expert question: is MS making more money from Minecraft on PS4
Or Sony from Blueray license fees from XboxOne?
:3
Back when I used to play a lot more multiplayer on XBLA, randos would pronounce it "Fate-All".
DomsPlaying
Member
So I guess LEGO is the big surprise? Otherwise, pretty standard. Oh and GTAV can't be stopped. Rockstar is OP.
Not an excuse I was just using facts & the fact is that the Xbox One is ahead of Xbox 360 so Xbox One can't be given credit for PS4 success when it's doing better than the Xbox 360 was doing. Wii U is the only console that lost ground compared to last gen so far.
if the ~ 100K numbers are true that mean that Xbox One is selling worse even while being $150 - $200 cheaper without Kinect & with all the changes to their strategy.
Pankratous
Member
Yeah but doesn't every Xbox One sold benefit Sony due to their part-ownership/development of Blu-Ray?