Do you have any evidence for this at all?
That doesn't exactly inform the argument. There's no data to back it up.
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NPD Sales Results for January 2016
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Do you have any evidence for this at all?
That doesn't exactly inform the argument. There's no data to back it up.
CosmicQueso
Member
Agree with this.
Why is the idea that one companies mistakes help a direct competitor succeed such a shocking one today?
Obliterator
Member
Yep exactly! Just discussing the current state of the US market and how we got here in the current generation. Fun discussion honestly
Well, you are.
They pursue the same demo (and then some more... ), but they need to be successfull in pursuing those demos to get their sales.
You are painting a fake picture of sheeps that need to buy a console no matter what and choose between their two options. That's not happening.
If neither XB1 or PS4 were good products, they wouldn't sell. At all. And those buyers would search other ways to waste their money and time.
If XB1 and PS4 were better products than they are, they would sell more. And the market would grow because more people would find them useful for their needs.
Obliterator
Member
I have no idea at all. I'm as lost about this entire thing as you are. I figured much of this was obvious
My sister said she wanted a Wii.
That was the only time I've heard her say she wanted a video game console. I doubt PS4 is selling to consumers like her. I think the casual demographic for the most part moved on to cellphones and tablets for their leisure.
MS offered a FREE repair because RROD. So, many of them get X360 back or bought another one with refurbished X360 trade-in. That's a simple logic.
Obliterator
Member
I honestly believe that you have entirely missed the purpose of my posts. Not once have I painted Sony as being nothing short of hugely successful with their strategy this gen.
Yes, but there's no way to track people who got the RROD and simply bought another one. We already know the reported costs of repairs (or roughly, at least), but anything else outside of that is just speculation.
ninjablade
Banned
Yup the opposite happened for sony lastgen, but having the strongest brand in console gaming for 2 gens and quick thinking saved them, cause there mistakes were even bigger, I don't think Microsoft can recover they will only sell 45 million this gen cause there brand is very weak ww.
tbh I don't know the purpose of your post but you quoted me when I said the market is not a zero-sum game to imply that it actually is... and yeah, I can't agree with that. Ever.
What I've been arguing here a few hours ago and now again is that the driving factor in the success of a product is said product qualities, and not the deficiencies of their rival. I'm not saying those doesn't matter because competition is obviously a thing, but they wouldn't mean shit if the product in itself wasn't desirable.
And this started because some guys said the opposite of course =/
Of course that's possible, but in reality unless you have a time machine and a new plan to hand MS (Console Sales Alamanac???) there really is no definite number you could attribute to how big a fuck up MS made at launch. Perhaps the die was cast in the final 2 years of the 360 plateform, where the focus on Kinect was argubly alienating to their core audience, making the reveal a minor blip on the road to disapoinment. Perhaps perhaps perhaps. Without real analysis into the actual motivations of the consumers whom chose to buy a PS4, Xbox One, WiiU or other - you know based on actual consumer market data (not just straight sales data) - we can argue all truths and all things and most with equal merit.
The truth likely lies in the middle...but then again it could not.
I took it to mean that instead of the PS4/XB1 U.S. split being solely due to one reason or another, it's due to multiple reasons. Misery for everyone!
Go into Live From PlayStation, go to your friends & family houses PS4 is also selling to the type of people that bought Wii. Twitch & Youtube have people wanting to be gamers who never played games before & they are going out buying consoles just like it was people going out to buy the Wii who never played games before because they seen others playing it & talking about it.
Obliterator
Member
I have never said the driving force of the PS4's install base is MS mishaps. I said they are a large factor. Which they 100% are.
The Xbox brand and the Playstation brand are as direct of competitors as you can find in any industry. They are battling over the exact same people who are walking into GameStop to buy COD, Madden, Fallout 4, Battlefield, NBA, etc. They want the exact same consumers.
The successes and failures of each brand have a direct impact on the other. To ignore this, is to ignore the reality of the current state of the market.
joecanada
Member
We also don't know how many were returned to store and then ditched by MS. Like all three of my friends returned three or more to stores and who knows where those ended up or how they count them. Could they all be revived?
This is all anecdotal information.
None of my family, distant or close, own a PS4. All of them own Roku's. My personal story is no basis in fact for sales in the gaming industry.
Just as much reason to not discuss it in a sales thread.
Obliterator
Member
Btw I realize this is an intense debate and I apologize if I come across as a dick to anyone. Really not my intention just having a fun lively discussion 
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
What have I missed?!
ninjablade
Banned
Dude get real, ps4 is selling to the 360/ps3 market same type of games are selling like they did lastgen, it's just ps4 is taking a huge chunk of market-share back from the xbox brand.
David Ricardo
Member
It's a little bit of both.
A lot of PS4s are sold because it's a great product, it has a good controller, game installations are unintrusive, all third party Publishers support it (COD, BF, Madden, Fifa, GTA, etc...).
If their main competitor brings a product that is similar, but is more expensive (at launch) and runs games worse, many console buyers that would normally buy an Xbox, are going to change their decision and buy a PS4.
Because they are basically the same product, so they appeal to the same consumers. If one product is worse, more people are going to buy the best product.
djblackice
Member
It's not. It's when you cite to only one reason like a poster did (whose prior documented bias cast a shadow on the reason for him making the statement) as the sole reason one company is successful this gen.
Come on now, enough with this. He already corrected his mistake and he's a consistantly good contributor to SalesGaf.
...but that direct impact is not as significant as you're making it to be, because the market is not saturated.
They are fighting over the same demo (and again, over some others too even if you want to ignore them), but as the market is not saturated, they both can grown or shrink depending on their acts. The missfortunes of XB1 means less XB1 sold, but all those losses doesn't go to PS4, and viceversa.
There is no fixated ammount of potential owners that will buy one of the two consoles until they are discountinued. There is always an untapped portion of the market that can be reached. Will they reach it? Are they trying now? Those are question that are more worthy of looking for answers that the imaginay scenario of MS launching a different console and winning by default because reasons
PS: Arguing in english can be still pretty exhausting for me so I apologize for some mistakes that I constantly do, I try to edit them when I see them >.>
Obliterator
Member
Btw I realize this is an intense debate and I apologize if I come across as a dick to anyone. Really not my intention just having a fun lively discussion
We have no numbers Nothing wrong with a respectful debate.
Obliterator
Member
Oh its every bit as significant as I make it. They are fighting over the same core AAA gamer who is going to go out, buy a console, pay a subscription to play online, and buy big AAA titles to purchase DLC and micro transactions on. Thats their market and who they are trying to appeal to at scale, because thats where the current cash in the industry comes from.
If that were true, growth is not possible. At all. The market is stagnant and will be stagnant forever, no matter what happens inside and outside said market.
We should pack it up while we're at it >.>
Dude, 60 hours a week! Where am I going to get the extra 36 hours in a day? I don't do time manipulation shit, man!
You need the tutelage of Hakoom for that.
anyone get that reference?
So many people got denied of repair too for the first 2 years. until MSFT "became honest".
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed.
joecanada
Member
There's nothing wrong with speculation. I never said anything was factual it's just interesting topic. Does failure rate affect sales? Who knows
I'm sure they do, but a lack of information makes the speculation rather pointless.
No one can look at the sales of the 360 and point out how many sales were created due to rebuying a 360 after a RROD. It's just a non-starter.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Oh, It wasn't related to numbers or anything.
It was about the backlash to the MS reveal and how it was really the retailers who got things to change. The consumer backlash just added more fuel to a large fire.As Stumpokapow mentioned dozens (?) of times last generation, if 360 HW sales are significantly inflated by returns, then their attach rate was even higher than the generation leading number it already was. If someone says that there weren't as many "real" 360 owners in the U.S. as the numbers would lead you to believe, then that same person is also saying that the 360 owners in the U.S. bought even more software per owner than the existing tie ratio would lead you to believe.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Oh, It wasn't related to numbers or anything.
Thanks. It's great to get insight like this.
small44
Member
Look at best selling games on Ps4 and on Wii they are completely different so how PS4 is selling to the same type of people who bought Wii
joecanada
Member
Yup that could be true. And it proves they had some loyal customers too it's impressive really. The issue is where did they migrate to or will xone keep up with 360 sales
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
At present. There other techicalities regarding previous activities that clearly state certain conditions.
Without sounding too cryptic, go for a history lesson and take into account what was exactly said at one point.
Ive said it before, its not worth risking even a paper cut from handling the full NPD report, just so a bunch of forum goers can have something to argue with each other about.
Bolivar687
Banned
There has been evidence, at least seen internally at Sony, suggesting that a number of the Wii audience has indeed moved onto the PS4.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-says-ps4-appeals-to-wii-owners-who-never-boug/1100-6421126/
I don't have the quote but Verendus has also said there's another group of PS4 owners who didn't own any of the consoles last gen. Pachter also posted on Gaf that he expects about half of the Wii audience to buy a console sometime this cycle.
When you look at the PS4 numbers and the consoles it's historically tracking, there's just no way it could have reached this level of success without some degree of crossover mainstream appeal. It's consistently been the top platform for sports games that attract both audiences and we're seeing that popularity further concentrating by taking the top spot for a new Lego game this month.
I said it's also selling to the type of people who bought Wii. this isn't to prove anything.
It's also selling to the Wii market & people who never owned a console before or didn't have a PS3 or Xbox 360.
Game sales can't tell you that all the PS4 owners are from the PS3/Xbox One market because like I said there is people who use the PS4 for Netflix & also sit in PlayRoom all day broadcasting. you have people buying games just to stream live who was not gaming on PS3 & Xbox 360 even if it's the same type of games it doesn't mean it's the same market buying them.
Obliterator
Member
I have no idea who old NPD_George was but believe it or not some major businesses like to read Sales GAFs debates lol. There's some good analysis posted in some of these threads.
the answers you seek are a couple of google searches away and discussing this here will only lead to trouble =/
joecanada
Member
We also don't know breakdowns by age groups. Like I don't know how many kids who had 360 now are adults and own nothing. But I do know for my friends only half still play video games. So there's always new people entering and leaving the market. Same for games like minecraft I'm surprised people ask who doesn't own it yet? Every kid who just entered grade X and realized everyone is playing it
Welfare
Member
Lol I wonder if they have any favorites.
It's not that idea that bothers people. I think any reasonable people would say of course a competitor's mistakes help.
It's the idea that the mistakes are the ONLY or the PRIMARY reason. That bothers people because it puts all the power in one company's hand as if the world turns when they say it turns and completely or virtually completely removes agency from the other and belittles anything they do as meaningless.
Just to be clear you and Obliterator are not taking this position but there are people who have posted who do or did and have since corrected their stance or clarified it.