jeff_rigby
Banned
Thanks...
I'm not trying to be dogmatic but in this case I am 100% sure. People who follow my posts will notice that I preface with guess, likely or speculation unless I am absolutely sure.
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Opinion: The PS4 will support 4K blu-ray
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
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I'm not trying to be dogmatic but in this case I am 100% sure. People who follow my posts will notice that I preface with guess, likely or speculation unless I am absolutely sure.
jeff_rigby
Banned
YES, 66 GB and 99 GB
Adam Tyner
Member
With all due respect, you're mistaken. Even movies shot on film over the past 10-15 years or shot digitally at a higher resolution invariably have 2K digital intermediates. As mentioned earlier, even mammothly budgeted movies like The Hobbit series (shot at 5K) and The Avengers have 2K DIs. The only way for these movies to be properly released at 4K would be to completely reconstruct them -- re-edit them, redo all the visual effects, etc. That will only happen in very, very few cases, and we'll likely see a lot of upscales from 2K instead.
As for older movies, there's the potential for them to be released at 4K, but the overwhelming majority of the existing masters -- even many, many movies being newly remastered as I type this -- are 2K. Some are transferred at 4K, but the actual mastering is done at 2K.
shouamabane
Member
I'm pretty sure 6K the closest digital equivalent of 35mm film and 8K is the closest digital equivalent of 70mm film.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Again an article about the release of the first 4K blu-ray player says this:
Only by digging into White papers and patents do we find what the plans are.
My GUESS is that Microsoft and Sony will announce they support 4K blu-ray soon now that others are announcing their players. They will announce when they can show that a XB1 and PS4 is MORE than just a media and game platform. It's also a media hub and connected Home Platform to do everything you would want a STB connected to your living room TV to do. = Microsoft Roadmap
This echos several posters in this thread. Sony and Microsoft have not announced this or Vidipath or that their designs will support any version of the FCC Downloadable Security scheme to eliminate the need for a cable card.
Only by digging into White papers and patents do we find what the plans are.
My GUESS is that Microsoft and Sony will announce they support 4K blu-ray soon now that others are announcing their players. They will announce when they can show that a XB1 and PS4 is MORE than just a media and game platform. It's also a media hub and connected Home Platform to do everything you would want a STB connected to your living room TV to do. = Microsoft Roadmap
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I would guess that it was a 1st gen 4K TV with a bad upscaling feature. It's one of the most important features of a 4K TV right now, as there won't be a lot of native 4K content till next year.
Same here. The Sony 2015 4K TVs have particularly good 1080p-4K upscaling. I got my new TV while I was halfway thru Arkham Knight, when I played it on the 4K TV it was night and day.
Guys, sorry to be off-topic, but I'm interested in getting a 4K TV. Can you guys tell me the exact model you have?
Thanks.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Mine is the X850C (the 65'' version). There are also 55 and 75" versions.
Decent review here:
http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/sony-lcd-tv/sony-xbr-55x850c.html
Can't be stressed enough. The 2014 versions are great and heavily discounted right now, but do not include the new upscaling processor.
I have the 55" of this one. Make sure to get the 2015 model.
Kralamoonard
Member
Just curious guys, if you play a 1080p PS4 game on a 4K TV, will the image look better than a 1080p PS4 game on a 1080p TV? Like, will the image be downscaled or something (or upscaled?). As you can tell I'm not very tech savvy so a bit of clarification will be helpful, thanks.
Question how many movies exist shot on film via shot on in the last twenty years digitally? Like a said a metric shit ton of content. The films will be remastered just like they were for bluray. This same process was done when DVD ended. It's not some impossible process.
Not only that but movies shot in 4k with 2k effects were still shot in 4k! You will still see improvements when remastered in 4k and they will be. Your attitude about 4k content is short sighted. The best 4k stuff will still be the classics but anything losing resolution now to 1080p will be better on 4k.
Using your hobbit example the special effects in the original trilogy look soft in plenty of scenes because they weren't don't with bluray in mind. Did that stop them from being released? Did people say "meh the special effects look soft!" Nope.
I'm pretty sure the PS4 cannot upscale games to 4K. Possibly your receiver or the TV might but that would depend on the model. I'm sure more knowledgable people can also pitch in.
Bacardi151
Member
Same model I got a few weeks ago. Whether playing windwaker hd on the wiiu or watching house of cards/daredevil in 4k via netflix ( or just directv programming being upscaled), everything looks fantastic.
Real happy with this tv ( had a 10 year old samsung 61 inch rear projection tv so i think its safe to assume its a pretty significant jump in tech).
The TV upscales the content via magic upscalling elves (I don't know how it works).
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I have the same Sony 4k TV as the guys above (55" Sony X850C) and the up-scaler on it is great. Games and blu-ray movies look superb and just as good as most native 1080p screens.
Technically a native picture is superior, as there is no added information making up the difference in pixels, but the up-scaler on this TV and a lot of the newer 4k TV's do such a good job it's hard to tell the difference.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Upscaling a 1080p image to 4K is something that is done by the TV (or possibly a receiver, though I'm not sure about this). Some 4K TV's are better at this than others so results will vary, I chose my TV specifically for this feature (among others). Newer and/or higher-end 4K TVs will do this better than older TVs.
In my TV's case the image looks significantly better than my 1080p TV. Excerpt from the review I linked to earlier:
It looks the same to me but on a big display the upscaling makes the image less jaggy. On my 80" 4k the upscaling looks a little better than the raw image.
Kralamoonard
Member
Adam Tyner
Member
No, they won't: not really.
If you shoot on film but do all your post-production work in 2K, including outputting everything for a 2K digital intermediate, you're essentially stuck with 2K. If you shoot at 4K (or 5K, 6K, etc.) to build a 2K digital intermediate, you're essentially stuck with 2K. Again, practically everything -- from 15 years ago to today -- is finished at 2K. Of the seven movies Fox announced yesterday for UHD BD, only one (!) has a 4K digital intermediate. The rest will be upscaled on UHD BD.
The remastering process for movies with a 2K DI bears zero resemblance to what was done to bring films to Blu-ray. You're not rescanning a movie; you're re-editing it, redoing the effects, etc. (unless you just upscale it, which is what will be done in all but a tiny handful of cases). It's not unprecedented; Star Trek: The Next Generation and Seinfeld did something similar to make it to HD, but this will almost never happen. If Jurassic World won't pony up for a 4K DI for theaters, why would they go to that staggeringly huge expense for UHD BD, Netflix 4K, etc. where they'll never recoup that investment?
Well, what I'm saying about remastering is true if we're talking about properly bringing them to 4K. Ultra HD Blu-ray has more in its quiver than just resolution, and HDR and a wider color gamut will make a lot of movies finished at 2K look better on UHD BD than they do on traditional BD. Fox is gone back to several of their movies and given them the HDR treatment.
As far resolution goes, though, before you respond with "no, but...", sorry, the answer is still the same. If a movie from the digital intermediate era wasn't finished at 4K, no matter how it was shot, there's a 99.9% chance it'll be upscaled on UHD BD.
But it doesn't matter. The number of movies shot in 4K or higher with 2K effects and a 4K digital intermediate approaches zero. For this conversation, whether or not a movie was shot in 4K is irrelevant if it wasn't finished in 4K.
The effects were done in 2K, which is slightly higher res than Blu-ray.
Even if you are right which I do not agree that you are. The argument that 15 years of films over shadows 60 years of film is not true. There is still tons of original 4k content waiting in classic films that many people like me treasure.
If there is money to be made in reproducing and remastering a movie in 4k a studio will do it. Also the effects from lord of the rings may be mastered in 2k but some were definitely not 2k. The effects are jaringly soft in many scenes especially in the two towers and return of the King.
Adam Tyner
Member
These are all very easily verified facts. I'm not sure where there's room for disagreement. Opinion doesn't really factor in.
1) I do as well, but catalog titles don't really sell in meaningful numbers anymore, and I'm not sure how many we'll see brought to UHD BD as a result.
2) I was in no way arguing that 15 years of film overshadows the many decades of film before it. I was responding to this:
A good bit of that is factually incorrect. Movies with a 2K DI, even if they were shot on film, can't truly be 4K without essentially recreating the entire project, and cutting things off at the early 2000s is inaccurate since this continues to be an issue today.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The 2015 PS4 revision has exposed traces gong into the HDMI chip. So either the Southbridge does the HDCP 2.2 encryption like the older PS4 or we will be waiting for a 2017 PS4 that supports 4K blu-ray.
The quote is from the FCC DSTAC which is outlining a strategy for Downloadable security to eliminate the Cable Card. What this does mean is the PS4 Southbridge has to handle HDCP 2.2 or it can't support the FCC DSTAC and 4K blu-ray but the PDF for Sony Passage sent to the FCC has a picture of a PS3 labeled PS4 supporting a DSS which logically implies the Southbridge is handling HDCP 2.2.https://transition.fcc.gov/dstac/wg3-draft-report-08042015.pdf said:
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
You really can't go wrong with it. If it's outta your budget, the X830C has most of it's features at a lower price.
Why is 4k bluray such a thing when 8K already exist? When bluray was being developed over a decade ago 1080p was the gold standard. Now display technology has advanced to so fast it seems like they are trying to artificially slow down and feed the public something that are already superseded by better tech.
Hell, Sony just put a 4K screen in a 5.5" smartphone.
1080P = 2.07MP
4K = 8.29MP
8K = a whopping 33.18MP
We don't need a incremental step for large screen viewing . 4K for netflix screeming (given network issues) and 8K for disc based media is what is should have been.
Hell, Sony just put a 4K screen in a 5.5" smartphone.
1080P = 2.07MP
4K = 8.29MP
8K = a whopping 33.18MP
We don't need a incremental step for large screen viewing . 4K for netflix screeming (given network issues) and 8K for disc based media is what is should have been.
Grimgrillz
Banned
It doesn't matter what the capabilities are. What's more important here is mass adoption and right now the masses are gearing up for 4K. Think about it, 8K is reportedly outdated in comparison to HDR tech but that's tech speak for us geeks.
For anyone considering a 4K tv samsung has (in my opinion of course) the best screens, tech, and native 1080 upscaling. But for us gamers Samsung also has the lowest latency of 4K tvs.
Independently verified via the link below. Adjust res to 4K to better see the results
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/
Adam Tyner
Member
Ouch! I've been lusting after a 4K OLED, especially now that Panasonic is about to enter the fray and the new models will support HDR, but that lag is nuts.
Robot Pants
Member
Fuck yea. Just bought a 4k TV
Dafuq is Sony doing with input lag? Their tv's used to be the best for that. I think this years Samsungs are beating them on that area, who would of think that would happen lol. Samsungs were borderline good in the past in the lag department....
wanderjahr
Banned
I like to think of myself as somewhat of an early adopter, but I will not be buying a 4k tv anytime soon. My viewing distance for starters is ~12 and I won't get anything bigger than 55" and even at that distance, I'm not seeing the full benefits of 1080p. So the resolution advantage is out. The 10bit panel would be nice, but I hardly have (or care to get) 4k bluray content to enjoy the benefits. I don't care for upscaling as I enjoy and want to enjoy content as-is without interpolation or artificial post-processing. I want to keep a 1080p device around for PS4 gaming so I have 1:1 pixel mapping. On top of all that, I'm still impressed with a good bluray master for movies being released now (which streaming devices have yet to even approach bluray quality).
What I do want to get is a top of the line 1080p tv before manufacturers start relegating them to bargain devices. A good one of those will last easily ~5 years until 4k tvs have matured and prices have dropped a little.
What I do want to get is a top of the line 1080p tv before manufacturers start relegating them to bargain devices. A good one of those will last easily ~5 years until 4k tvs have matured and prices have dropped a little.
DangerMouse
Member
Me too. Fantastic TV.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Sharp has a 70 inch UHD Smart TV for $1749 @ Sam's Club and Costco. I regret buying my Sony 70 inch 1080P TV 9 months ago for $1500.
exmachina64
Banned
Thank you for saying this, it doesn't get said enough.
Well, I trust that this will happen and honestly it makes sense that it will either in current PS4s or in a major revision. 100GB discs also mean more capacity to distribute modern games without ridiculous additional downloading.
Looks like the HDR spec is getting locked down with TV manfactuers also. An HDR compatible 4K TV is finally in my short term future and it will be glorious. I'd love not to have to buy a 4K player also and I'm sure that if all PS4s can be upgraded to support it, the barriers to marketplace acceptance of the format will be massively reduced. In fact, PS4 compatibility may have been a requirement from the beginning.
Looks like the HDR spec is getting locked down with TV manfactuers also. An HDR compatible 4K TV is finally in my short term future and it will be glorious. I'd love not to have to buy a 4K player also and I'm sure that if all PS4s can be upgraded to support it, the barriers to marketplace acceptance of the format will be massively reduced. In fact, PS4 compatibility may have been a requirement from the beginning.
wanderjahr
Banned
But....I just said I have no interest in anything but 1080p. And price is really the last thing stopping me from 4k. It's all the things I mentioned earlier. Most of my disk content is 1080p and so is my gaming content. I like 1:1 mapping. I'm content with a 1080p living room until the next generation of consoles come out. 4k pc gaming on the other hand will be something I adopt much earlier.
you have no idea what you are talking about.
there's a ton of factors at play. if you want the look of a 70mm film you better be using a 70mm sensor. Resolution of film is subjective from my experience.
because 8k doesn't really exist. name 8k digital cinema cameras. red only does 6k which is great for 4k vfx. ARRI doesnt even have a 4K camera and the Alexa is a work horse. Sony doesn't have an 8K camera either.
I've also had 0 clients that have requested even shooting in 4K.
But to get back on topic the PS4 shouldn't need a hardware revision to support 4K blu-ray. It already supports 4K output. im expecting a firmware update to mention it.
The softness of lord of the rings effects has nothing to do with resolution but instead the tech available at the time
Thank you for this post. The difficulty of 4k+ for video is less about screens and display tech and more about lack of content. While hdr is cool and will be useful for even hd content 4k is an issue of diminishing returns and lack of content. 4k is a much bigger deal for gaming
Theonik
Member
A lot. Most people will notice that over the bump n resolution.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Partially correct depending on the technology. Some (most) Bayer camera CCD sensors have a separate sensor for each color and some for the monochrome signal too. This results in triple the number of sensors and a massive increase in cost as you move up in resolution. There was a Sony patent released this year for a new scheme that uses one sensor for each pixel but I don't think it has made it into any cameras yet.
Apple patented a 3 sensor (one for each primary color) with a prism splitting the colors to each B&W sensor. This results in higher low light sensitivity as B&W sensors take less light to work properly. Each of the three sensor would have the number of Pixels you listed for each resolution.
I do think Sony will put out a revision that includes support soonish. Simply due to how much of a hardon Sony has for 4k.
jeff_rigby
Banned
I am going to post in this thread when the OP is proved correct no matter how long that takes.....ban me for bumping a thread then.
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