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Polygon, Eurogamer, Engadget et al are Wrong About Shenmue III and PayPal
- Thread starter Spaghetti
- Start date
Okay, I read the Polygon article and are they wrong? the kickstarter says:
but i'm looking at it now and none of them say "Kickstarter Exclusive," at least none that I see but they do call it the "Shenmue 3 PS4 Kickstarter Backers Edition" on there.
and on the kickstarter, it says:
so isn't Eurogamer's title correct? what was the original promise, that the ks rewards would stay on ks?
the writing for it all is weird, imo.
"Shenmue 3 PayPal backers denied Kickstarter-exclusive reward options "as originally promised""
The implication of this title is that PayPal backers were promised Kickstarter-exclusive rewards in the first place when they were not. It instantly makes the reader start thinking that something is being taken away, and then the train of thought goes to the idea that PayPal backers are getting nothing for their money. They then bury the information that states there will be no change to the way the PayPal campaign has been operating since September at the bottom of the page, and the comments section is clearly full of people who either read the title or just the first paragraph, and thus we have the continued confusion from people who think PayPal backers are getting nothing for their money.
And no, Polygon's article is not correct because:
There is a clear statement that physical copies, and engraved items (both of which are available to PayPal backers) will now no longer be accessible to those who bought via PayPal. It's a clear manipulation to form an incorrect narrative amongst the readership. It is at best sloppy writing, and at worst directly malicious attempts at misinforming the public.
the kickstarter itself says
what does that mean?
It seems the physical copy thing is confusing because in the updates, it says it's a kickstarter backer edition and none of the rewards on the kickstarter are labeled kickstarter exclusive as one of the updates says, unless I couldn't see it. I could see why one might get confused. also, there are no plaques available to paypal backers like there are on kickstarter ($1400 reward)
There are no physically engraved plaques being offered to backers at all, as the key point on that $1400 tier is "Your name and birthdate will be written on a traditional wishing plaque to be displayed at a temple in Bailu Village."
Bailu Village is the fictional village Shenmue III starts in. There are engraved crystal sculptures on offer however, and they are available to both PayPal and Kickstarter backers. It's just a case of the Polygon reporter not even getting the rewards tiers right.
Anybody who has followed the campaign, or even read back a little to when talk about the poll first appeared on the Kickstarter would see in that update:
I can understand some confusion about the wording in the later update, but the fact nearly nobody in the games media read back a little to find the above quote is frustrating.
I am not defending misreporting.
However, given that it is well known that large portions of games media aren't particularly good at reading comprehension, many developers and publishers go out of their way to communicate clearly and plainly.
For whatever reason, the Shenmue 3 team are not doing this.
Going back to when the Kickstarter launched, people were obviously going to ask for detail about what exactly Sony's involvement was, this information should have been plainly shared from the start, rather than speaking ambiguously, leaving an information vacuum in which doubt could flourish.
This poll and the outcome were badly managed. They shouldn't have really used a poll for this kind of decision, they certainly shouldn't have entirely ignored the results of the poll when deciding a strategy, and they should have used clearer language to describe the specifics of their final decision.
A great number of other studios and publishers do not experience the issues the Shenmue 3 team are having in these areas, because they hire competent staff to fill the role of marketing/PR.
I'd love to live in a world where games media were more consistently competent, but that is not the world that we live in, and the rational response for publishers and developers is to take this into account with their communication.
Edit: It is a big problem that many sites shy away from doing their own reporting, instead opting to parrot whatever some other site has published, without taking time to verify the facts, or often even understand the story. That is not going to change, given that clearly this is a profitable model for the sites doing it.
However, given that it is well known that large portions of games media aren't particularly good at reading comprehension, many developers and publishers go out of their way to communicate clearly and plainly.
For whatever reason, the Shenmue 3 team are not doing this.
Going back to when the Kickstarter launched, people were obviously going to ask for detail about what exactly Sony's involvement was, this information should have been plainly shared from the start, rather than speaking ambiguously, leaving an information vacuum in which doubt could flourish.
This poll and the outcome were badly managed. They shouldn't have really used a poll for this kind of decision, they certainly shouldn't have entirely ignored the results of the poll when deciding a strategy, and they should have used clearer language to describe the specifics of their final decision.
A great number of other studios and publishers do not experience the issues the Shenmue 3 team are having in these areas, because they hire competent staff to fill the role of marketing/PR.
I'd love to live in a world where games media were more consistently competent, but that is not the world that we live in, and the rational response for publishers and developers is to take this into account with their communication.
Edit: It is a big problem that many sites shy away from doing their own reporting, instead opting to parrot whatever some other site has published, without taking time to verify the facts, or often even understand the story. That is not going to change, given that clearly this is a profitable model for the sites doing it.
it doesn't mention physical plaques. it just says specially engraved plaques, meaning the one you just mentioned and none of the rewards on kickstarter say "kickstarter exclusive." unless i'm just not seeing it.
Nobody is really arguing the idea that communication could be better, and as I've said over and over, if you go into any Shenmue thread or even a dedicated fan forum like the Shenmue Dojo, you will know that we all pretty much agree that Awesome Japan are not very good. You would be very hard pressed to find someone who cares enough about Shenmue III to know who Awesome Japan are that would defend them.
That isn't what this thread is about, and attempts to steer the conversation that way feel a bit like detracting the blame from games media on some bad and inaccurate reporting that went on in the wake of that poll. It is shockingly bad too, and I made it very clear how easy it could have been to report properly on the matter, though in the case of Eurogamer it seems more of an office/reporting culture problem than a matter of simple inaccuracy and laziness.
If you want to talk about Awesome Japan being bad, come to the Shenmue community thread, because you'll probably find plenty of people who are happy to agree, myself included. Why couldn't there have been a better team on Kickstarter/PayPal/PR for Shenmue III? There almost was. 8-4 and Ryan Payton respectively were approached but were unable. So why Awesome Japan? Who knows. Maybe they were the only ones affordable, or maybe the promised the world and delivered shit. Maybe Yu actually thought they had the credentials to get the job done, but we'll never know for sure. It still doesn't make it right for the games media to take the piss by being so fucking lazy in this instance.
The blame goes both ways, because all it would have took is a slight scrolling down the page to know the context of the poll and have the misconception of backer rewards being taken away completely set straight. Both these journos and Awesome Japan are being paid for a job they're doing badly. Maybe they have a lot in common.
Like I already said though, "Awesome Japan botches a poll" isn't a story, but apparently "YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED" is, even if it needs significant conjecture and embellishment to be so.
Engraved is the operative word in the sentence, and it's clear the Polygon reporter confused two rewards (on purpose, or not), so this is a matter of semantics at the moment.
It doesn't negate the fact the reporter mentioned two items (even if one was mentioned incorrectly) that are available to PayPal backers, then casually said that these will not be available to PayPal backers directly after.
There is some word play involved here, so stay with me. Polygon could fall back on the mistake with the plaque and the talk of physical copies as referring to the backer case as a "get out of jail free" card for trying to say they were not implying these items will be taken away from PayPal backers, and ergo not being lazy fucking journalists.
However, given that the sentence is constructed to imply items that are available to PayPal backers will no longer be so, and judging how their comments section seems to believe that is the case, there is significant reason to believe the sentence was constructed in such a way to put forward the narrative of "paypal backers won't get their items". Knowingly or unknowingly, the Polygon reporter created an inaccurate narrative, and didn't provide the proper clarification provided by the Kickstarter post I have brought up over, and over, and over, and over-
They didn't state that reward wrong, those plaques are engraved in the game. I don't think fault lies only at the feet of them. Everything I've read about this is confusing. Their wording is on the updates are especially and like I mentioned earlier, one of the updates even mention breaking a promise. Polygon could have contacted them or their writing wasn't completely on par, but I think both parties are heavily at fault
*opens Shenmue III Kickstarter page*
*ctrl+f - Engraved*
*two results, both referring to the engraved crystal statue*
Nowhere does the Polygon article say it is an in-game plaque, and the operative word of the sentence is engraved. They botched it, on purpose or not, and the implication is still there.
And, because I have to repeat myself about this, I am not arguing that the communication from the Shenmue III Kickstarter is AAA++++ totally flawless and like reading the greatest, clearest prose known to humanity.
The point is that it could have taken LESS THAN A MINUTE to clear up any ambiguity about the poll and the prevailing lie that PayPal backers don't get what they paid for.
That's largely what this thread is about, and the fact nearly nobody on the press side seems to give a fuck.
Wrestlemania
Banned
It seems less like an issue of the press not giving a fuck and more like some Shenmue fans giving far too much of a fuck, really.
I did my best to explain what is really going on (in French): http://www.gameblog.fr/news/55851-shenmue-3-polemique-et-desinformation-le-point-sur-les-recom
There's a lot of passion for the series and Shenmue 3 is getting developed against all odds. With that in context, I can understand why some are getting defensive because ultimately the fans just want it to be successful and news like this can turn people away from it the more it spreads.
C'mon.
Like did you even read the part where this isn't really about the game? Shitty journalism wound me up, not people shitting on Shenmue. If that pissed me off enough to make a thread like this, I'd make one every time I saw a Youtube commenter call Yu Suzuki a poor man's Kojima*.
*this really happened. how do you call yu suzuki a poor man's kojima?
get2sammyb
Member
Yeah, unfortunately I agree. The sites that are misreporting - intentionally or not - should definitely be doing a better job, no doubt. But at the end of the day, this Kickstarter has been and continues to be a mess, and it's only seen success because it's Shen-flippin'-mue 3.
I say this as a big backer of the campaign and lifetime Shenmue fan.
DannyDanger
Member
Did they really not correct it tho
We all know they read these forums since they always have some snarky one liner to say about gaf on twitter
Leaving up misleading info after its been clarified is the worst of the worst, i would think
Especially the Polygon article... That statement about non of the rewards being available to paypal users
But again, i have to go back to Awesome Japan... They're really f***ing this campaign up. Its frustrating... Get your sh** together already
We all know they read these forums since they always have some snarky one liner to say about gaf on twitter
Leaving up misleading info after its been clarified is the worst of the worst, i would think
Especially the Polygon article... That statement about non of the rewards being available to paypal users
But again, i have to go back to Awesome Japan... They're really f***ing this campaign up. Its frustrating... Get your sh** together already
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Wait until they fuck up something you care about.
breakYODAy
Member
Dictator93
Member
Sometimes these big outlets, unless they are spoon fed a PR piece by a AAA pub, just mis-report like crazy.
Thanks to Let's Get Sweaty (and here's a plug for his winning can raffle for those backing Shenmue III on PayPal currently, if you wanna win some Shenmue related swag) of the Shenmue Dojo for pointing this out to me
Engadget have added this to the bottom of their article:
While the article still states R.E Kickstarter Exclusive rewards tiers:
(hint: they weren't, that's why the poll was to see if the remaining KS tiers that didn't appear on the PayPal site when it launched would be opened up to slacker backers)
And the title is still:
Which has been proven to be categorically a lie. Totally lazy, and likely nothing would have changed if they hadn't got called out all over the place.
Well Engadget, your article is still inaccurate, and you still look like a bunch of lazy fucking hacks.
Engadget have added this to the bottom of their article:
While the article still states R.E Kickstarter Exclusive rewards tiers:
(hint: they weren't, that's why the poll was to see if the remaining KS tiers that didn't appear on the PayPal site when it launched would be opened up to slacker backers)
And the title is still:
Which has been proven to be categorically a lie. Totally lazy, and likely nothing would have changed if they hadn't got called out all over the place.
Well Engadget, your article is still inaccurate, and you still look like a bunch of lazy fucking hacks.
I don't care about Shemue. This kind of reporting is still disgraceful.
funny bear burgers
Banned
Looks like The Know just released another Shenmue-bashing video to add fuel to the fire. Those Rooster Teeth folks really don't like Shenmue for some reason.
That said, I think Awesome Japan and Ys Net need to step back a little bit and re-evaluate their PR efforts. They're both doing a miserable job and doing nothing to correct the misinformation that's out there. They're relying too much on the fans, if they even care at all.
The journalists are jerks, but is anyone from the actual campaign doing anything to fight these stupid rumors?
That said, I think Awesome Japan and Ys Net need to step back a little bit and re-evaluate their PR efforts. They're both doing a miserable job and doing nothing to correct the misinformation that's out there. They're relying too much on the fans, if they even care at all.
The journalists are jerks, but is anyone from the actual campaign doing anything to fight these stupid rumors?
ienjoyrawfish
Member
lol @ video games "critics".
No wonder Ebert thumbed his nose at those charlatans.
No wonder Ebert thumbed his nose at those charlatans.
What is the video pertaining to? I'd go look myself but I've had enough of poor reporting for one lifetime.
As for what the campaign is doing to fight the rumours... nothing, pretty much. They're playing turtle until this blows over, which it will eventually.
One of the biggest failings of Awesome Japan is that they have next to zero media links outside of their home country. Then again, should they need to be buddy buddy with media types in the West to at least get even handed treatment? Probably not, and if anything it's just another damning factor of games media.
This does explain part of why Yu Suzuki initially approached 8-4 and Ryan Payton to run the Kickstarter. Payton is a former games journo, and 8-4 has a few in their ranks too. It does disturb me that if you are part of this 'club' you may get preferential treatment when you move over to the development side, but this is hardly the only industry nepotism is rife in.
s_mirage
Member
Although I agree that reporters are being lazy, this could have been mitigated somewhat by the campaign runners actually being able to write a simple, non-ambiguous statement.
"Considering the strong response from those of you who felt that the Exclusive Rewards should remain exclusive for the Kickstarter, those Exclusive Rewards will not be made available on the PayPal page as originally promised."
What was the original promise? That the Kickstarter exclusives would remain just that, or that Paypal backers would get them too? Wording that loose is asking for trouble.
"Considering the strong response from those of you who felt that the Exclusive Rewards should remain exclusive for the Kickstarter, those Exclusive Rewards will not be made available on the PayPal page as originally promised."
What was the original promise? That the Kickstarter exclusives would remain just that, or that Paypal backers would get them too? Wording that loose is asking for trouble.
Mitigation or not, a key point of this thread is that journalists didn't bother to read back slightly to find:
All it takes is half a minute to find, and read this. It also totally explains what the poll is for, and what the results will mean. It's literally only two updates back from the current one (three if you're a backer), totally public, and also the first full paragraph of said update.
Some botched wording is one thing, but journalists totally ignoring the idea of doing any research, and then using conjecture to put forward a false narrative (paypal backers not getting their stuff), is so much worse. Spoon-feeding the media so they don't shit their pants on the job should not be a requirement.
