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[Tetsujin_MK]

Maybe they should just finally add video games to the list of artforms so that it is permitted to use it like in movies etc.

Video games have been officially acknowledged as an artform and cultural asset in Germany for many years now.
The publishers just self-censor at this point because they don't feel like possibly having to go to the courts to reach a new verdict on the swastika-in-games situation.

 

[Hux1ey]

It would be an interesting experience instead of this glorified war COD gives you.
Don't think activision or any other dev has the balls to do it though.

Yup, war is hell..only game to ever really capture that truly is Spec Ops the line.

At least that's the only one I know of.

 

[13ruce]

Video games have been officially acknowledged as an artform and cultural asset in Germany for many years now.
The publishers just self-censor at this point because they don't feel like possibly having to go to the courts to reach a new verdict on the swastika-in-games situation.

Ah i did not know this, this changes things alot. Sorry then for being wrong.

 

[patapuf]

Marketing terminology is one thing, but when you talk about it being a personal experience - like for example Glen Schofield's father passing away during the development of this game and in tribute they named the main character after him - things like that lead me to believe that they are treating this as a passion project - which by the way, they've also implicitly stated they view it as such.

If they're going to do the history justice, then they have to get it all authentic - which they've also implicitly stated.

I'm kind of fighting for German gamers here because they should get a game that reflects history and not one that erases history.

.

The trailer we saw opens with the same shot we've seen in movies like saving private Ryan and every Medal of Honor/call of duty game that played in that theatre.

And the swastika's are what makes you concerned for the german perspective. really?

I need to go to bed.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

How is that humorous?

You went from crying about swastikas being removed with absolutely no proof that any version other than the German one will be censored to crying about removing a statue of a treasonous racist loser that's a symbol of white supremacy in a predominately black city.

 

[Xando]

Marketing terminology is one thing, but when you talk about it being a personal experience - like for example Glen Schofield's father passing away during the development of this game and in tribute they named the main character after him - things like that lead me to believe that they are treating this as a passion project - which by the way, they've also implicitly stated they view it as such.

If they're going to do the history justice, then they have to get it all authentic - which they've also implicitly stated.

I'm kind of fighting for German gamers here as well because they should get a game that reflects history and not one that erases history.

I get that you want a historical game but you won't get it in COD.

COD has and always will be glorifying war. They will never be accurate enough for you to experience war like it really was.

They will never show german civilians being stuck on the melting concrete during the firebombings.
They will never show you gassing jews in a concentration camp.
They will never show you american soldiers raping german women.
They will never show you german soldiers killing wounded.
They will never show you french soldiers killing prisoners.
They will never show you german soldiers burning russians inside their homes.

Videogames concerning WW2 have never been accurate and unfortunately i don't think they ever will as it would be too much controversy.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

I'm sorry, were you offended by my wanting historical accuracy?

Based on your post that I quoted - or should I say the part of your post - there would never be a game made that allowed the player to do those things and yes, that is historically accurate; but how would that be a fun game for anyone?

You knew what you were posting when you posted it - it was meant almost satirically and I get that, but just understand the historical events you used as an example are completely beyond offensive and unnecessary in the context of a video game.

 

[Fliesen]

I'm kind of fighting for German gamers here as well because they should get a game that reflects history and not one that erases history.

Dude, get outta here with that crap. That's not what you're doing.

Germany's doing a very good job of not forgetting their past, as opposed to many other countries. It's not about whether or not certain symbols are restricted in their use, it's about condemning the actions of your past and teaching about the crimes of the war in school.
(as opposed to - say - the difficult relationship to the confederate flag in the U.S.)

Call of Duty never reflected history. It uses a historical war as its setting.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

And the swastika's are what makes you concerned for the german perspective. really?

You went from crying about swastikas being removed with absolutely no proof that any version other than the German one will be censored to crying about removing a statue of a treasonous racist loser that's a symbol of white supremacy in a predominately black city.

It's not "crying" about the swastika insignia - it's touting historical accuracy and authenticity as a selling point.

If those icons and insignias are censored anywhere, then the promises and assurances by SG are meaningless and false advertising.

 

[Lkr]

It's not "crying" about the swastika insignia - it's touting historical accuracy and authenticity as a selling point.

If those icons and insignias are censored anywhere, then the promises and assurances by SG are meaningless and false advertising.

and yet you still haven't accepted the fact that the Werhmacht cross is historically accurate and authentic

 

[Tagyhag]

That might just be stuff for the German version, I'd just wait for the game to actually be out before rioting.

 

[Double Donut]

For everyone saying "this will just be the German version / wait and see", probably not.

One of the remade zombie maps in the new Black Ops 3 DLC had all its swastikas removed and changed, so there's a precedent now for it in COD.

Doubt we'll see any swastikas in COD: WWII.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

and yet you still haven't accepted the fact that the Werhmacht cross is historically accurate and authentic

This is actually the Werhmacht Symbol:

That image is far too blurry for it to be descernably an Iron Cross, but even if it is, the Iron Cross was a medal used as a symbol of distinction - it wasn't used as an insignia for weaponry or documentation of weaponry.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Well Germany has some law against the Swastika, right? Maybe they want to keep controversy there low by avoiding the Swastika's use in marketing, similar to Wolfenstein.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

I don't think your want or thread is absurd. It is your opinion versus others opinion after all. I don't find issued either way but I'm fine if they don't censor things.


I don't think they censor it because they necessarily want to though, just to avoid any real issues. Artists typically like to be accurate where possible

 

[Lime]

maybe they're relegating the swastika as DLC to milk that sweet alt-right gamer demographic

 

[rakkadakka]

That might just be stuff for the German version, I'd just wait for the game to actually be out before rioting.

Even if it isn't in the game it's not like COD is going to represent anything but the American side of the war.

 

[guggnichso]

So you can't understand why people, especially in germany, where there's still some holocaust survivors alive, might be offended by a shitty multiplayer shooter letting players jump around with literal swastikas on their sleeves?

I mean, you seem to be quite easily offended by other stuff: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1180026

 

[Hux1ey]

So you can't understand why people, espacially in germany, where there's still some holocaust survivors alive, mighty be offended by a shitty multiplayer shooter letting players jump around with literal swastikas on their sleeves?

I mean, you seem to be quite easily offended by other stuff: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1180026

You actually went through his post history. Jesus.

 

[mieumieu]

So you can't understand why people, espacially in germany, where there's still some holocaust survivors alive, might be offended by a shitty multiplayer shooter letting players jump around with literal swastikas on their sleeves?

I mean, you seem to be quite easily offended by other stuff: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1180026

God

Spoiler

damn

this is hilarious.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Dude, get outta here with that crap. That's not what you're doing.

Germany's doing a very good job of not forgetting their past, as opposed to many other countries. It's not about whether or not certain symbols are restricted in their use, it's about condemning the actions of your past and teaching about the crimes of the war in school.
(as opposed to - say - the difficult relationship to the confederate flag in the U.S.)

Call of Duty never reflected history. It uses a historical war as its setting.

It is what I'm doing.

Anything touted as historically accurate and authentic should not be censored anywhere on the globe. Anyone can be offended by anything and there will always be some individuals that might take offense to something that the majority do not; but the fact that this game is being marketed this way has me excited for it actually making good on those promises.

Historically accurate, authentic entertainment products should be able to be enjoyed in every country - including Germany. They should be able to enjoy a historically accurate, authentic World War II entertainment experience without having it censored.

Do you think they shouldn't be allowed to do that?

My OP is simply asking that if the game does in fact get globably censored, would it bother anyone.

If the next Call of Duty was a Civil War game and they removed all of the Confederate flags, don't you think somebody would be irritated by that - especially if they lived in the south on the sole basis of historical accuracy and authenticity?

Just a question.

 

[Fliesen]

You actually went through his post history. Jesus.

To be fair, that's god damn funny, especially with regards to the

I like to be able to make up my own mind on what offends me and what does not.

part in the OP

It is what I'm doing.

Anything touted as historically accurate and authentic should not be censored anywhere on the globe. Anyone can be offended by anything and there will always be some individuals that might take offense to something that the majority do not; but the fact that this game is being marketed this way has me excited for it actually making good on those promises.

Historically accurate, authentic entertainment products should be able to be enjoyed in every country - including Germany. They should be able to enjoy a historically accurate, authentic World War II entertainment experience without having it censored.

Do you think they shouldn't be allowed to do that?

My OP is simply asking that if the game does in fact get globably censored, would it bother anyone.

If the next Call of Duty was a Civil War game and they removed all of the Confederate flags, don't you think somebody would be irritated by that - especially if they lived in the south on the sole basis of historical accuracy and authenticity?

Just a question.

you keep ignoring the countless of posts that inform you that - in no way shape or form - has a CoD game ever been or will a CoD game ever be "historically accurate" or "authentic".
Just because they use marketing buzz words doesn't mean you'll be getting any such experience.

 

[Par Score]

The suppression and erasure of Nazi symbolism from our culture would be something to be celebrated.

What the Nazis did should never be allowed to be forgotten, but in remembering their atrocities we should be careful not to venerate and idolise what they were. The outright banning of all Nazi symbols and propaganda should have been pushed for after the war, and it's a shame it only happened in a few countries.

"Free Speech" has led us down a dark and dangerous road where SS uniforms are "cool" and Swastikas are edgy. Where Nazis are sympathetic and their victims are derided. "Historical accuracy" is being used as an excuse for pushing fascist propaganda in front of impressionable minds.

So you can't understand why people, espacially in germany, where there's still some holocaust survivors alive, might be offended by a shitty multiplayer shooter letting players jump around with literal swastikas on their sleeves?

I mean, you seem to be quite easily offended by other stuff: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1180026

Jesus Christ the hypocrisy. God Damn.

 

[Sylas]

It is
If the next Call of Duty was a Civil War game and they removed all of the Confederate flags, don't you think somebody would be irritated by that - especially if they lived in the south on the sole basis of historical accuracy and authenticity?

Just a question.

The people that would be irritated by that are more than likely the people that see the flag as something to be celebrated, not remembered. It's also not a 1:1 correlation considering nobody is going to look at a swastika and go, "Oh shit! That's right! Nazi Germany was a thing!" The wrongs of the Nazi regime are taught through and through within German schools and I'm pretty sure most people know what was going on with Germany in WWII.

And get off your goddamn "I'm just asking questions!" platform because people are answering your question. You just don't like the answer.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

For everyone saying "this will just be the German version / wait and see", probably not.

One of the remade zombie maps in the new Black Ops 3 DLC had all its swastikas removed and changed, so there's a precedent now for it in COD.

Doubt we'll see any swastikas in COD: WWII.

So what you're saying is...wait and see?

 

[Double Donut]

So what you're saying is...wait and see?

:x

What I'm saying is... don't wait at all and get your hopes up because I guarantee they'll be gone, after what happened in Black Ops 3. I guess.

 

[NBtoaster]

It makes sense to avoid swastikas in random bits of art like that to make the censor job less of a hassle. There will still likely be swastikas in places that are easier to swap out (like flags etc). It's just flavor in menus and wont affect the feeling of authenticity.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

So you can't understand why people, espacially in germany, where there's still some holocaust survivors alive, might be offended by a shitty multiplayer shooter letting players jump around with literal swastikas on their sleeves?

I mean, you seem to be quite easily offended by other stuff: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1180026

Wow.

Going through my post history is an obscenely-obsessive move on your part. I'm sure if I went through your post history I could find something inane or a time when you were offended by something.

My post you quoted has absolutely nothing to do with censorship in a World War II game. My personal religious views have nothing to do with this topic.

As a matter fact, I think what you did is appalling and offensive.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Joke thread? You don't even seem to understand history in the first place. Perhaps you should take a few more lessons before worrying if people will "learn from history" first

 

[la_briola]

[...]
No matter how hard you try you can't hide the past how evil or shamefull it is/was people will always find the logo's truth etc.
[...]

This part of your post is rather ignorant. Accusing Germany of trying to "hide the past" is an outlandish statement.

[...]
Maybe they should just finally add video games to the list of artforms so that it is permitted to use it like in movies etc.
[...]

This on the other hand, I agree with.

 

[Abinash117]

This is actually the Werhmacht Symbol:

That image is far too blurry for it to be descernably an Iron Cross, but even if it is, the Iron Cross was a medal used as a symbol of distinction - it wasn't used as an insignia for weaponry or documentation of weaponry.

I don't think it is supposed be anything like that. It is likely Sledgehammer is just trying to signify what faction is using the weapon since in COD SP and MP the players play as different factions. They are likely trying to distinguish the Werhmacht from the SS in the story as well .

I don't know about the ID card, but these two pics probably lack context. People should wait be jumping to conclusions.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

To those of you blaspheming after reading the link to my post that was quoted earlier simply for the fact that you know it's going to bother me - I'm pretty sure that infringes on the terms of service on this site because I am extremely offended by it.

You are infringing on my religious rights and offending me nonstop simply to be offensive and hateful on purpose - isn't that an issue?

 

[Hux1ey]

The suppression and erasure of Nazi symbolism from our culture would be something to be celebrated.

What the Nazis did should never be allowed to be forgotten, but in remembering their atrocities we should be careful not to venerate and idolise what they were. The outright banning of all Nazi symbols and propaganda should have been pushed for after the war, and it's a shame it only happened in a few countries.

"Free Speech" has led us down a dark and dangerous road where SS uniforms are "cool" and Swastikas are edgy. Where Nazis are sympathetic and their victims are derided. "Historical accuracy" is being used as an excuse for pushing fascist propaganda in front of impressionable minds.

Nazis are sympathetic?? What. There is nothing wrong with historical accuracy in a WW2 game dude, censorship is dumb.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

If they are going to do it better go all the way.

Call of Duty: WW2 ; The Termanians under the rule of the Mazy party started World War 2 when they invaded Kroland.

 

[Machinehead]

This is a call of duty campagin. Just like every Hollywood movie about WWII it will be woefully inaccurate in general.

A few stamps don't even register (and the iconography in these stamps was used during that time as well):

I mean, you don't really expect COD WWII to be "historically accurate down to every detail" do you?

Exactly. If it were a game that tried to be accurate not only in a broad sense, but had all of its design working towards presenting a close representation of war, gameplay serving such purpose and all, I'd care. But it is just Call of Duty. It is kind of difficult to care about historical accuracy while granading and shooting literally thousand+ soldiers in the span of a few hours.

 

[mieumieu]

To those of you blaspheming after reading the link to my post that was quoted earlier simply for the fact that you know it's going to bother me - I'm pretty sure that infringes on the terms of service on this site because I am extremely offended by it.

You are infringing on my religious rights and offending me nonstop simply to be offensive and hateful on purpose - isn't that an issue?

I am infringing you? HAHA stop being so self centered. You have no right to be offended.

And I am an Antitheist living in an atheist state I dont care for your shit. But I do thank your nonexistant deity that the US doesnt have blasphemy laws... yet

 

[la_briola]

To those of you blaspheming after reading the link to my post that was quoted earlier simply for the fact that you know it's going to bother me - I'm pretty sure that infringes on the terms of service on this site because I am extremely offended by it.

You are infringing on my religious rights and offending me nonstop simply to be offensive and hateful on purpose - isn't that an issue?

Are you serious? God damn.

 

[Xando]

Nazis are sympathetic?? What. There is nothing wrong with historical accuracy in a WW2 game dude, censorship is dumb.

I agree. If it's done in a historic accurate presentation.

Just haven't seen a videogame do that with WW2 yet.
COD is a glorification of war and using its setting and some swastikas doesn't make it accurate

 

[Hux1ey]

I agree. If it's done in a historic accurate presentation.

Just haven't seen a videogame do that with WW2 yet.
COD is a glorification of war and using its setting and some swastikas doesn't make it accurate

So let's go backwards and remove the Nazi symbol from a WW2 game? I don't get it.

 

[Sylas]

To those of you blaspheming after reading the link to my post that was quoted earlier simply for the fact that you know it's going to bother me - I'm pretty sure that infringes on the terms of service on this site because I am extremely offended by it.

You are infringing on my religious rights and offending me nonstop simply to be offensive and hateful on purpose - isn't that an issue?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Thanks for the laughs man, it's been a rough couple of days

 

[guggnichso]

Wow.

Going through my post history is an obscenely-obsessive move on your part. I'm sure if I went through your post history I could find something inane or a time when you were offended by something.

My post you quoted has absolutely nothing to do with censorship in a World War II game. My personal religious views have nothing to do with this topic.

As a matter fact, I think what you did is appalling and offensive.

Dude, you made a thread about being offended by the possibility to not being able to have NAZI symbolism in a multiplayer shooter. I mean, let's be realistic, this whole thing will end with a bunch of children playing the german side shouting "Sieg Heil!" non stop on Xbox Live. This is all this will be besides the shitty 2.5hour single player campaign, where Johnny Americanman will single handedly liberate France from the NAZIs.

But I am appalling? We might disagree here.

 

[Charles Brandon]

wehrmacht =/ nazis

 

[MartyStu]

To those of you blaspheming after reading the link to my post that was quoted earlier simply for the fact that you know it's going to bother me - I'm pretty sure that infringes on the terms of service on this site because I am extremely offended by it.

You are infringing on my religious rights and offending me nonstop simply to be offensive and hateful on purpose - isn't that an issue?

Agreed that they are being dicks, but I think you are going too far. It is hardly hateful.

It is not a personal attack, an attack on a group of people, or a slur intended to denigrate.

The worse thing about it is that it is a bit rude and it is degrading this conversation.

Wow.

Going through my post history is an obscenely-obsessive move on your part. I'm sure if I went through your post history I could find something inane or a time when you were offended by something.

My post you quoted has absolutely nothing to do with censorship in a World War II game. My personal religious views have nothing to do with this topic.

As a matter fact, I think what you did is appalling and offensive.

This however, is nonsense. He brings up a very good example of how you are being hypocritical with the position you chose to take with the issue.

 

[Moff]

it wouldn't surprise me, WW2 games have less and less swastikas in them. I think wolfenstein is the only one that still does it. they used to do separate versions for germany or just outright ban the game there, but I guess both options are no longer worth it so they just remove the swastika everywhere.

 

[Xando]

So let's go backwards and remove the Nazi symbol from a WW2 game? I don't get it.

Why do you desperately want swastikas then? Historical accuracy is obviously not what you are asking for. Are swastikas really that important to you that they have to be in the game but the rest can be made up?

 

[xxMaximusxx]

Here's a letter I have laying around from Nazi Germany

 

[Hux1ey]

Why do you desperately want swastikas then? Historical accuracy is obviously not what you are asking for. Are swastikas really that important to you that they have to be in the game but the rest can be made up?

I don't "desperately" want them but I think they should be in because that's how it was. As I said I'd like WW2 games to be more accurate, show the brutality, show the torture, show how terrible war is. I don't want to censor anything, and censoring the Swastika in a WW2 game is going backwards.

 

[guggnichso]

wehrmacht =/ nazis

Of course there were PLENTY of NAZIs in the Wehrmacht, from the very top to the lowliest foot soldier, and war crimes were commited aplenty. This whole "the Wehrmacht only followed orders and was totally innocent" schtick is completely inaccurate.

 

[ModBot]

I'm going to go ahead and lock this since we still don't have any adjudication as to if swastikas are actually removed, and this is now getting into pretty aggressive interpersonal arguing