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[LewieP]

Because nobody wants that.
If the ARM is required to program the FPGA then it's a necessary evil, I suppose.

I seem to recall them saying that something on the carts would be what programs the FPGA though, so if that's still the case, then the ARM is entirely unnecessary.

This should be a box that plays old games made for old architectures and then new games written for old architectures.

Not new games written for new architectures that just happen to look like old games.

We already have boxes for old games and new games written for old architectures. The original hardware. A device that only replicates the functionality of a SNES but is incompatible with SNES carts is a terrible idea.

 

[Vipershark]

We already have boxes for old games and new games written for old architectures. The original hardware. A device that only replicates the functionality of a SNES but is incompatible with SNES carts is a terrible idea.

They've been saying repeatedly that adapters will likely happen eventually and obviously if they don't make them, the community will. I'm not worried about adapters happening.

Being able to have one box that is cycle-accurate with many different systems which can also output over HDMI is much better than having a bunch of different consoles, and I say that as someone who collects said consoles and values them highly.

 

[emb]

Because nobody wants that.
If the ARM is required to program the FPGA then it's a necessary evil, I suppose.

I seem to recall them saying that something on the carts would be what programs the FPGA though, so if that's still the case, then the ARM is entirely unnecessary.

This should be a box that plays old games made for old architectures and then new games written for old architectures.

Not new games written for new architectures that just happen to look like old games.

I want that.

I don't get the appeal of the FPGA stuff. (Fake edit: reading your later posts, I do at least see the appeal of having it all in one box though.) I already have a SNES, etc. The best I can hope for out of this thing is for it to be a cheap novelty.

 

[Dreamwriter]

If the FPGA is big enough it can emulate a processor so you don't need to add one.

The theory is that the FPGA would be used as a GPU for the ARM, adding hardware support for all sorts of things like tile-based graphics, sprites, and scrolling, so that the processor wouldn't need to be very powerful/expensive. It'd be a waste to put in a super-powered FPGA that could be both the main processor and GPU rather than a lesser FPGA and a cheap ARM chip.

 

[Remk]

Another CUPodcast video update, cant wait for their take after the Kickstarter launches

 

[Conezays]

Personally I'm in here for the drama. And the train wreck.

There is potential for an FPGA-styled Retron5. In fact many of us were disappointed when it was revealed that it was ARM emulation. But the people who do buy the Retron5 currently don't care about it. They see the convenience, they see the HDMI, they don't care about accuracy, compatibility or input lag. They just want a quick nostalgia shot a couple of minutes every few months.

He says he wants to market it to the plebe. Fine, but the people buying the Genesis Classic Console or the Atari Flashback won't go for an overpriced, FPGA enabled console. Their nostalgia has limits and once they're ready to spend more they will usually go the original hardware route.

Then he says he wants to target the kids. The kids don't fucking care about an expensive console playing cheap old videogames. They play on their parents phone and tablets, lining blocks on Candy Crush. If they know about the other kind of videogames, they will want the real deal, aka a PS4. If they are too young for that and parents want to give them old videogames, they will give them the Namco Joystick Console, and we're back to the first category.

If they want to target the adult retrogamer, then yes they will have to go full FPGA and stop their current PR fuckups. There is a market for the Minimig and The Kevtris™, but it's a very small market, maybe in the thousand units at best. And the multi-console aspect definitely doesn't fit in a Jaguar shell. They would be marketing to a very, very tech-savvy audience and anything less than full disclosure and customer input will result in a failure.

Then there is the (aborted?) Modern Retro Console concept, that would be playing modern indie game in cartridges, aka the Ouya with a cart slot. It could have been cool, I would have been interested in having a physical edition of modern games that would play instantly without OS bullshit, natively in 240p on a RGB CRT. But this idea is fundamentally opposite to the FPGA concept and can't possibly be merged with it unless making a FPGA+ARM $600 monstrosity that no one would ever buy. Not to forget the lack of software upgrades or general online connectivity that made no sense at all.

Agree with everything here; you said it better than I could. You have to wonder who this console is intended for.

And thanks for the video link, Remk.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Hopefully LOTS of people report them to Kickstarter tomorrow.

 

[Bogard]

Hopefully LOTS of people report them to Kickstarter tomorrow.

Honestly, I didn't care either way about the system until I saw the CU Podcast videos about the willful deception going on with this thing at the toy fair, and how they're trying to cheat their way into the kickstarter.

...a damn SNES Mini. I saw it and still can't believe it. I shall at least try to report it to KS tomorrow.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Honestly, I didn't care either way about the system until I saw the CU Podcast videos about the willful deception going on with this thing at the toy fair, and how they're trying to cheat their way into the kickstarter.

...a damn SNES Mini. I saw it and still can't believe it. I shall at least try to report it to KS tomorrow.

Stunts like this hurt the hobby and specifically hurt legit efforts that have merit. At some point we are going to have real FPGA cycle-accurate retro consoles hitting the market with really great scanline filters and so on and they deserve a chance. Consumers that get ripped off by schemes like this will become jaded, and rightfully so.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Hopefully LOTS of people report them to Kickstarter tomorrow.

For what? Which Kickstarter rule have they broken?

 

[Rich!]

For what?

For being a blatant scam at worst and at best an unrealistic proposition purely hinging on the hopes of people that know no better?

It's stunning how you are literally the only person here who seems to be oblivious to this.

 

[Tempy]

Looking forward to more smoke and mirrors to hide the lack of a working prototype.

 

[Dreamwriter]

For being a blatant scam at worst and at best an unrealistic proposition purely hinging on the hopes of people that know no better?

It's stunning how you are literally the only person here who seems to be oblivious to this.

I don't think anybody who has been following this closely thinks the Kickstarter is a scam trying to get your money and run away with it, even No-Face-Nico. The way they have handled certain things isn't the best or most honest, but it's not an out-and-out scam. Anyone reporting the Kickstarter for no reason is really either being malicious or ignorant. Now, if they show an obvious fake prototype in the Kickstarter video or something, that's a different story.

 

[Rich!]

I don't think anybody who has been following this closely thinks the Kickstarter is a scam trying to get your money and run away with it, even No-Face-Nico. The way they have handled certain things isn't the best or most honest, but it's not an out-and-out scam.

No. Every single thing they have shown is an outright deception. When put together with the wish to gain funds from consumers it is a scam.

They are using deceptive means to influence people into funding a project that will never see the light of day. It's a scam.

 

[Type40]

For what? Which Kickstarter rule have they broken?

Kickstarter rules state that there has to be a fully functioning prototype. Last time all they had was a CGI render. So far they still don't seam to have a physical motherboard or development API's

 

[Dreamwriter]

Kickstarter rules state that there has to be a fully functioning prototype. Last time all they had was a CGI render. So far they still don't seam to have a physical motherboard.

You've seen their Kickstarter video?

 

[Pellegri Testament]

You've seen their Kickstarter video?

Have you? There is little reason to believe that they will have anything more than what they have shown up to this point. I mean you have to be the most guillible person in the world to think that this will turn out fine when they have done nothing but deceive people from the start. There is no evidence that proves what people are saying is false, even when it would be easy for them to prove it if they actually had a real thing to go off of. All it would take is showing off the inside components to put all this talk to rest, yet they have done nothing but hide it.

There is no reason to defend them as hard as you are when the evidence against them just continues to pile up and they have done nothing to show otherwise.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

You've seen their Kickstarter video?

If they have a working motherboard/prototype for tomorrow, it would have been there for the Toy Fair. They also would have been showing off the board, not hiding it away.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Anyone reporting the Kickstarter for no reason is really either being malicious or ignorant. Now, if they show an obvious fake prototype in the Kickstarter video or something, that's a different story.

I'm reporting them for having a fake prototype. Running a fake prototype last week and then claiming to have a real one tomorrow is no way to ask for money from innocent customers.

 

[emb]

Up until recently, I was tending towards giving them the benefit of the doubt. The Toy Fair thing was just downright slimy though, and really kinda seals the deal on any optimism I had about the team's competence and professionalism.

I mean, since we're this close (I didn't realize it was already so soon), might as well take a wait and see approach. This project does smell scam-ish by now. I don't think there's any malice really, but even if it does end up funded I also don't think the result would lead to a strong product. Even with funding there's a significant chance it doesn't get made.

Allllll that said, I'll may still back it now that it's cheap. <.<

 

[Type40]

You've seen their Kickstarter video?

I gave you an answer to your question about Kickstarter's policy.

The amount of time it would take a skilled hardware designer/programmer to do the work and then to get a plant in china to make a functional prototype, is easily twice as long as the time it has been since they discontinued their relationship with Kevtris. Especially based on what they have promised so far, even considering the corners they have cut.

RetroUSB has been working on a fpga based NES clone, and has been sharing the process he's gone though with prototyping a console over the past 3 years.(spoiler it's alot of work and takes alot of time) VGS has had about 8 months and has not shown anything other than a plastic case with a snes jr in it at a professional trade show.

As for this question, I have not seen their video, but based on VGS's competency and honesty so far, I would be more than surprised if they somehow managed to pull this together.

 

[Mega]

I don't think anybody who has been following this closely thinks the Kickstarter is a scam trying to get your money and run away with it, even No-Face-Nico. The way they have handled certain things isn't the best or most honest, but it's not an out-and-out scam. Anyone reporting the Kickstarter for no reason is really either being malicious or ignorant. Now, if they show an obvious fake prototype in the Kickstarter video or something, that's a different story.

Understatement of the century. They got tons of positive press from gullible media and drew plenty of eyeballs from numerous attendees by showing up at one of the world's biggest toy/electronic trade shows with an incredibly deceiving and phony prototype. Mike and Co. had no business being there and all the undeserved attention they received will end up putting more unearned money into the Chameleon Kickstarter.

I don't think it's an outright run-with-the-money scam, but it's so obvious Retro is blatantly lying and faking everything until people literally hand over the money that will allow them to finally get started. Kevtris confirmed they operate this way... trying to get the $2mil from Indiegogo before they paid him a pittance in the end for doing all the critical work. In that regard, Retro have been acting like scam artists, fooling people into trusting them with money they would not have obtained if they were honest about their SNES in a Jaguar bullshit. Regardless of what's revealed tomorrow(?), the path getting there was dirty and full of lies.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Check out this Facebook entry.

"Eli From Piko Interactive stopped by with one of his boards, plugged in, running both Jim Power and Legend. We are running his games through our custom written SNES FPGA Core. He said they are playing flawlessly."

Unconscionable.

 

[NoFaceNico]

I don't think anybody who has been following this closely thinks the Kickstarter is a scam trying to get your money and run away with it, even No-Face-Nico.

You wouldn't say that if you saw the video I posted last night: Schnorrers Like Mike Kennedy Make the World Go Round

It is a blatant scam.

Guys, don't waste your time. This is the same guy who saw their cardboard (yes, cardboard) "preliminary" PCB and said "How are they not light years ahead?" [source]

Mike could show up on Kickstarter tomorrow with this and Dreamwriter will find a way to call it a working prototype.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Guys, don't waste your time. This is the same guy who saw their cardboard (yes, cardboard) "preliminary" PCB and said "How are they not light years ahead?"

Funny how they didn't use a clear housing when showing off their "prototype"....

 

[SerTapTap]

Check out this Facebook entry.

"Eli From Piko Interactive stopped by with one of his boards, plugged in, running both Jim Power and Legend. We are running his games through our custom written SNES FPGA Core. He said they are playing flawlessly."

Unconscionable.

OMG The facebook people are eating that shit up. I'm kind of surprised the first one bombed if that's how uninformed people are.

 

[Beer Monkey]

OMG The facebook people are eating that shit up. I'm kind of surprised the first one bombed if that's how uninformed people are.

I think they delete critical comments on recent posts. But yeah, there are a lot of ignorant folks out there.

Do note that they do NOT allow public posts to their page.

 

[Tempy]

RetroUSB has been working on a fpga based NES clone, and has been sharing the process he's gone though with prototyping a console over the past 3 years.(spoiler it's alot of work and takes alot of time)

I so want the AVS.

And here's how you do prototypes:

 

[Dreamwriter]

Guys, don't waste your time. This is the same guy who saw their cardboard (yes, cardboard) "preliminary" PCB and said "How are they not light years ahead?"

Yes, I was talking about them being light years ahead of OUYA at that point. Retro VGS supposedly had a custom PCB designed and had photo plots of its layout created for them. They then put a photo plot on cardboard and put it in the case along with some components, like any actual person would do before having an actual PCB manufactured and then finding out its holes didn't line up. They put a picture of that step up on Facebook because it was neat and they thought people would like to see progress. Compare this to OUYA, who showed a $250 Tegra 3 development board in their Kickstarter video, pretending it was a prototype.

I would definitely consider a fully designed (but not manufactured) custom PCB light years beyond buying an off the shelf dev board and claiming that was your product. That'd be like taking a SNES and saying that was a prototype of your multi console that can play SNES games.

 

[NeOak]

I so want the AVS.



And here's how you do prototypes:

Shit, they had one @ PAX South and I didn't know about the AVS until you wrote this.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[CoolZombie360]

Is the Kickstarter for this meant to kick off today? Should be good for a laugh...

 

[Mega]

The Kickstarter is supposed to go live today. Interested in what new shenanigans crop up today. To date these guys haven't done a single thing involving VGS/Chameleon without being shady or deceitful.

 

[Kyari]

As the kickstarter is launching today I wanted to post some neogaf exclusive pictures of the leaked Genesis core:

 

[SynthFetish]

Leaked shot of the custom board.

 

[superNESjoe]

As the kickstarter is launching today I wanted to post some neogaf exclusive pictures of the leaked Genesis core:

 

[CoolZombie360]

As the kickstarter is launching today I wanted to post some neogaf exclusive pictures of the leaked Genesis core:

Quality, I wonder if they could cram that Genesis 2 into the Jaguar shell?

 

[NoFaceNico]

Somewhere out there, someone has their hot little finger on the post new thread button just waiting to go off when the Kickstarter campaign begins. Who will it be? Dreamwriter or Ultrazilla?

 

[superNESjoe]

Quality, I wonder if they could cram that Genesis 2 into the Jaguar shell?

They'll just put electrical tape over the Genesis logo and write Chameleon on it with a white Sharpie.

 

[CoolZombie360]

They'll just put electrical tape over the Genesis logo and write Chameleon on it with a white Sharpie.

Yeah that could work lol

 

[Khaz]

Somewhere out there, someone has their hot little finger on the post new thread button just waiting to go off when the Kickstarter campaign begins. Who will it be? Dreamwriter or Ultrazilla?

I'm sure you have your trainwreck summary ready to go as first post too

 

[_Ryo_]

This Kickstarter thing can only end a few ways.
In laughs or in tears.
Or a combination of the two.

 

[NoFaceNico]

I'm sure you have your trainwreck summary ready to go as first post too

Nope! I've got no posts planned. Even when they do make a new thread I usually don't know about it until it's a few pages in and by that point it's already gone negative without my help.

Today I'm just going to sit back and watch the fireworks! Been waiting for this day, don't let us down Mike!

 

[Mega]

If there's a new thread, please link back to it here.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I have this feeling that the Kickstarter will be postponed for <excuses here>.

 

[NoFaceNico]

If there's a new thread, please link back to it here.

Ditto.

I doubt they will though, usually the reason they make a new thread is to whitewash the past.

Edit: even better, Mods- when [or if] the Kickstarter campaign launches, can we get the thread title updated to "COLECO Chameleon- a console that focuses on new cartridge games (Kickstarter)" ?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I wonder what Mike's going to do if this KS fails. I'm worried this idea has become a part of his personal identity and he feels it must succeed, at all costs.

If it fails (we'll all be shocked if it doesn't), I hope he can move on.

 

[SerTapTap]

Waiting on the KS too, mostly out of schadenfreude. Seriously doubt their ability to deliver for real.

 

[C-Sword]

Even RetroUSB is taking shots at them

 

[_Ryo_]

Even RetroUSB is taking shots at them

Lol. "That's gold, Jerry. Gold!".gif

 

[Tempy]

Even RetroUSB is taking shots at them

Niiiiice.