Support NeoGAF

[Pif]

This is what I don't get. If I have a 1080p why game should run at 4k?

It's the native Res. Why do xbox games run at 900p if we have a 1080p panel? Native res.

Unless the dev puts in extra rendering options ala tomb raider. If you play a game on pro, of course it is gonna run on pro mode. With pro shenanigans.

Edit: Also it is important to make a distinction between native 4k and the sorcery 4k ps4pro does. The latter is more prone to rendering artifacts and blurry IQ. Whether you notice that or not I have no idea. See Quantum Break for X1 for reference.

 

[Varg]

Already have mine preordered and have my PS4 for sale on my local Craigslist . Can't wait !!! Skyrocketing went to a wait a few months to insta Buy with the pro patch announcement for me (mods helped a bit too).

 

[Perfo]

It's the native Res. Why do xbox games run at 900p if we have a 1080p panel? Native res.

Unless the dev puts in extra rendering options ala tomb raider. If you play a game on pro, of course it is gonna run on pro mode. With pro shenanigans.

Edit: Also it is important to make a distinction between native 4k and the sorcery 4k ps4pro does. The latter is more prone to rendering artifacts and blurry IQ. Whether you notice that or not I have no idea. See Quantum Break for X1 for reference.

Doesn't downscaling to 1080p for a 4k risks to make it look worse than intended?

I'm really noob in regards to this topic. Perhaps easiest comparison is when on a PC with 17 inches monitor I play games at full resolution over lower res. and see improvements?

 

[BigEmil]

Imo I'd rather take the near same quality uprendered checkerboard 4K with more bells and whistles than native 4K.

 

[Planet]

Doesn't downscaling to 1080p for a 4k risks to make it look worse than intended?

Not at all, that is actually the best antialiasing method available, it just costs so much power the usually other methods are applied. With the Pro on a 1080p screen, you have that power to "waste", and it is quite simple for the developer to do.

Making a game look better in native 1080p (like e.g. Paragon and RotTR are doing) is much more work, you need improved our more assets, fine tune everything again and so on. Still hope many take this time in the future - as fine as supersampling is, extra effort looks better.

 

[Perfo]

Not at all, that is actually the best antialiasing method available, it just costs so much power the usually other methods are applied. With the Pro " a 1080p screen, you have that power to "waste", and it is quite simple for the developer to do.

Making a game look better in native 1080p (like e.g. Paragon and RotTR are doing) is much more work, you need improved our more assets, fine tune everything again and so on. Still hope many take this time in the future - as fine as supersampling is, extra effort looks better.

Thanks. But does ps4 pro automatically detects for me the best settings or I have to know TR must run on a pro set at 1080p and another game at 4k? It's so confusing lol

 

[Planet]

The Pro will know what kind of TV you have. The game decides what mode it uses then and maybe it gives you different options like RotTR does, it's all up to the dev.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Thanks. But does ps4 pro automatically detects for me the best settings or I have to know TR must run on a pro set at 1080p and another game at 4k? It's so confusing lol

You will have the option to choose between the mods like with Ni-Oh and TLOU:R

 

[Inuhanyou]

Imo I'd rather take the near same quality uprendered checkerboard 4K with more bells and whistles than native 4K.

That's not always viable. Many devs want to go the straight forward route, they already have the original PS4/XB1 SKu's to deal with, and they don't want to put too much effort into something that will give them the same amount of sales like putting in more graphical flourishes than necessary.

Its more work for no extra benefit.

Hence, you can just throw all the extra GPU power at pushing more pixels.That goes for checkerboard rendering as well as native 4K, and every resolution in between.

Also...checkerboard rendering is significantly better in terms of clarity than 1080p, but its still nothing compared to a native 4K render.

 

[novabolt]

7 games at native 4K, this pretty good. I knew I made the right choice favouring PRO over PSVR. Now back on topic.......

Oh, NeoGAF.........

 

[Inuhanyou]

7 games at native 4K, this pretty good. I knew I made the right choice favouring PRO over PSVR. Now back on topic.......

Oh, NeoGAF.........

Is there something wrong?

 

[michaelius]

Nice start - since I bough new UHD TV with HDR I hope all future title will have 4k (native or upscale) with updated colours.

 

[mario_O]

Well, expected really. Old gen ports and some indies. Still better than nothing. I'm worried about textures though, 4k with low res textures might not look very nice. We'll see.

 

[Stike]

How is it with HDR? Is the support also added automatically with the Pro/4K version, or is that a separate feature they have to announce for their games?

Gimme Skyrim HDR pls

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

How is it with HDR? Is the support also added automatically with the Pro/4K version, or is that a separate feature they have to announce for their games?

Gimme Skyrim HDR pls

It is a separate feature that devs need to announce. In an interview with Killing Floor 2 dev, he said they are trying to support 4K on PS4 PRO and they didn't include HDR yet. They may add it in the future.

 

[novabolt]

Is there something wrong?

People were saying to me that the PRO or Scropio won't be able to run decent games in native 4K.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

People were saying to me that the PRO or Scropio won't be able to run decent games in native 4K.

It is expected to get some games running in 4K. There are even some which run at 60 FPS which is a big achievement whether old games or indies.
Who ever expected GOW2 to have a secret HD mode on PS2 at that time? Now that I remember, Trine 2 could even run in 4K@30FPS on REGULAR PS4 if the PS4 had the physical output to allow 4K : http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread.php/322410-Trine-2-is-possible-at-4k-on-ps4-if-Sony-allowed

Expect Trine games to be 4K@60FPS On PS4 PRO since the output is HDMI 2.0

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Doesn't downscaling to 1080p for a 4k risks to make it look worse than intended?

I'm really noob in regards to this topic. Perhaps easiest comparison is when on a PC with 17 inches monitor I play games at full resolution over lower res. and see improvements?

We faced already a similar situation this gen on PS4 with The Lego Movie Videogame where the game is rendered natively in 1920 x 1200 then the resolution is downscaled to native 1080p Resulting in a super-sampled image on PS4: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-lego-the-movie-next-gen-face-off

An ineteresting theory here on a vertically super-sampled PS4 image, derived from a 1920x1200 native resolution squeezed down to 1080p. After reviewing the assets, we're more inclined to believe it's in the neighbourhood of 1920x1280 based on 64/54 pixel ratio. The boost to image quality is minimal - additional resolution benefits thin geometry and texture detail, neither of which are major elements in the visual make-up of this game. Additionally, much of the image is submerged under depth of field - the main reason this escaped our notice in the first place. For the record, Lego Marvel Super Heroes on PS4 is definitely native 1080p, so this is a new development for the series - and could well be the first PS4 game to render at a resolution exceeding full HD.

 

[platocplx]

7 games at native 4K, this pretty good. I knew I made the right choice favouring PRO over PSVR.

Yeah I did the same thing just canceled my PSVR preorder. I can wait on VR id rather have the pro, i couldve gotten both but just not really caring for it that much ATM.

 

[Jacob4815]

So, if I have a PS4 PRO, a 1080p TV and TLOU:R:

- 30 fps mode, with native 4k supersampled to 1080p, so I will have perfect AA
- 60 fps mode, the game will not be 4k native, but supersampled to 1080p again

So I think there's no reason for a 1080p user to select 30fps mode? We have supersampled 1080p and very good AA in both the cases.
There will be more benefits in the 30fps mode?

 

[Badlucktroll]

I can't wait to see the differences in checkerboard vs native 4k. I also would expect some games to be checkerboard 4k first, then get patched to native.

Skyrim Remastered at native 4K alone justifies my Pro purchase to me, will definitely give The Last of Us a whirl too, and probably end up replaying it in its entirety for the umpteenth time.

THIS. I feel the same way about these 2 games, and i expect to be pleasantly surprised by others.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

So, if I have a PS4 PRO, a 1080p TV and TLOU:R:

- 30 fps mode, with native 4k supersampled to 1080p, so I will have perfect AA
- 60 fps mode, the game will not be 4k native, but supersampled to 1080p again

So I think there's no reason for a 1080p user to select 30fps mode? We have supersampled 1080p and very good AA in both the cases.
There will be more benefits in the 30fps mode?

Enhanced shadow maps only exist in 30 FPS mode it seems, so it's the same case with PS4.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I bet we'll get more native 4k/30fps games than we think. I hope GTA V gets a patch. What are the odds of this?

 

[Sum-Mischief]

Just picked up a new set .
55 UHD with HDR ...
I am ready ... very excited. Looking forward to Zero Dawn.

 

[Lady Gaia]

I like the idea of having a list tracked in one place, but I think it should be strictly 4K native titles. By all accounts that doesn't include COD:IW. As stated upthread it relies on a rendering technique that can produce comparable results under some circumstances – but it doesn't actually switch rendering strategies to native 4K in static scenes.

So far it's very much as expected. Remasters and titles that make obvious stylistic tradeoffs are going to have the easiest time of it but it's still impressive to see any content at 4K 60fps this generation.

Now for the list of HDR titles and then wide color gamut titles...

 

[Skyrise]

Hi, Mauro from indiedev MixedBag here! Aside from the port of Wheels of Aurelia, running native 4K and 60fps on PS4Pro, I can confirm that we're doing a patch for Futuridium EP Deluxe at native 4K / 60fps + enhanced PSVR support (higher resolution than standard PS4 in VR at 120 native FPS).

Also our upcoming 2D metroidvania forma.8 is already running in 4K / 60fps / 8xMSAA.

Visually our game are quite simple but being able to push 4K really benefits their look since we're using very stylized visual styles.

Adding support for PS4Pro in Unity is very easy, it'a cool to be able to add support for the latest and greatest tech also as a small indie dev!

 

[Kaako]

Hi, Mauro from indiedev MixedBag here! Aside from the port of Wheels of Aurelia, running native 4K and 60fps on PS4Pro, I can confirm that we're doing a patch for Futuridium EP Deluxe at native 4K / 60fps + enhanced PSVR support (higher resolution than standard PS4 in VR at 120 native FPS).

Also our upcoming 2D metroidvania forma.8 is already running in 4K / 60fps / 8xMSAA.

Visually our game are quite simple but being able to push 4K really benefits their look since we're using very stylized visual styles.

Adding support for PS4Pro in Unity is very easy, it'a cool to be able to add support for the latest and greatest tech also as a small indie dev!

Awesome, glad to read this. Especially about the ease of adding PS4Pro support in Unity. Thanks for taking the time/effort to patch in support.
Also really looking forward to the PS4Pro enhanced PSVR games. Hitting native 120 FPS with a higher resolution is straight up sex!

 

[onQ123]

I like the idea of having a list tracked in one place, but I think it should be strictly 4K native titles. By all accounts that doesn't include COD:IW. As stated upthread it relies on a rendering technique that can produce comparable results under some circumstances – but it doesn't actually switch rendering strategies to native 4K in static scenes.

So far it's very much as expected. Remasters and titles that make obvious stylistic tradeoffs are going to have the easiest time of it but it's still impressive to see any content at 4K 60fps this generation.

Now for the list of HDR titles and then wide color gamut titles...

It doesn't have to switch rendering strategies because the rendering job is just being split up so if you're standing still every pixel in the frame actually gets rendered.


Also if PS4 Pro can render Call of Duty 60fps 4K using checkerboard rendering that should make it clear that it can also render these same graphics in native 4K at 30fps

 

[ghibli99]

Nice start. I'm way more excited about 4K possibilities than VR right now. I think Rez Infinite is going to be a sublime experience in both, but 4K60 just sounds so amazing. Very jealous of everyone rocking them big 4K OLEDs. Anyway, can't wait!

 

[Cyriades]

Subscribed.

 

[Inuhanyou]

People were saying to me that the PRO or Scropio won't be able to run decent games in native 4K.

Those people were always wrong. 'decent games' are completely devoid of any context. All that matters is that the GPU power being used by the game leaves enough headroom to push the res to native 4K

It doesn't have to switch rendering strategies because the rendering job is just being split up so if you're standing still every pixel in the frame actually gets rendered.


Also if PS4 Pro can render Call of Duty 60fps 4K using checkerboard rendering that should make it clear that it can also render these same graphics in native 4K at 30fps

Not even close. Tons of games will use checkerboard rendering for games already 60fps on PS4, that has nothing to do with them being able to hit 4K.

It depends completely on the game, and COD def aint one of those.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This is actually a pretty useful thread...

 

[Fredrik]

PSVR's lukewarm reviews and PS4 Pro's native 4K surprises has caused them to switch places for me these last few days, I'm still not convinced enough to be there day 1 but it's certainly getting better, MS need to be sure that they'll be a big step ahead next year because Sony will have a killer product in PS4 Pro if things continue to go this way,

 

[Kaako]

This is actually a pretty useful thread...

Very useful for the remainder of this generation, that's for sure.
For next gen, 4K native res should be a given yes?

 

[5taquitos]

Hi, Mauro from indiedev MixedBag here! Aside from the port of Wheels of Aurelia, running native 4K and 60fps on PS4Pro, I can confirm that we're doing a patch for Futuridium EP Deluxe at native 4K / 60fps + enhanced PSVR support (higher resolution than standard PS4 in VR at 120 native FPS).

Also our upcoming 2D metroidvania forma.8 is already running in 4K / 60fps / 8xMSAA.

Visually our game are quite simple but being able to push 4K really benefits their look since we're using very stylized visual styles.

Adding support for PS4Pro in Unity is very easy, it'a cool to be able to add support for the latest and greatest tech also as a small indie dev!

This is awesome. Looking forward to hopefully a bunch of indie devs adding Pro support, seems like a lot could hit 4k native.

 

[blastprocessor]

Colour me surprised at the number of native 4K games.

 

[mjontrix]

I want to know upgrades for:
- Kingdom Hearts 2.8
- Kingdom Hearts 3
- Final Fantasy 7 Remake

If they add 60 fps for the Pro, I might be tempted. If they just increase the res and add some effects, then I'll stick with the PS4 basic.

Ff7 and kh3 must have pro at launch.

Kh 2.9 will have to as well - if its being ported to ps4 and xbone itll be announced next E3 imo.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

This is what I don't get. If I have a 1080p why game should run at 4k?

Read about supersampling.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Ff7 and kh3 must have pro at launch.

Kh 2.9 will have to as well - if its being ported to ps4 and xbone itll be announced next E3 imo.

There is no '2.9'

2.8 already has a confirmed pro patch.

Very useful for the remainder of this generation, that's for sure.
For next gen, 4K native res should be a given yes?

Hard to say. MS has no next gen, so generally speaking they dont have any real barometers for what they can do.

I'm sure PS5 could run current gen games at 4K no issue, but PS5 games? I'm sure there will be plenty of devs who scale back on res(and fps for that matter) to push their technology

 

[onQ123]

Those people were always wrong. 'decent games' are completely devoid of any context. All that matters is that the GPU power being used by the game leaves enough headroom to push the res to native 4K



Not even close. Tons of games will use checkerboard rendering for games already 60fps on PS4, that has nothing to do with them being able to hit 4K.

It depends completely on the game, and COD def aint one of those.

If they can render 50% of a 4K frame in 16ms then they can render 100% of a 4K frame in 33ms.

 

[hesido]

Yep. Read my post above.
.

Would be nice if you update the OP as the OPer, it makes it look like there's not 60fps option. (Although that is not native, it and seemingly irrelevant to the thread )

 

[Inuhanyou]

If they can render 50% of a 4K frame in 16ms than they can render 100% of a 4K frame in 33ms.

Again, that means little because different games have different requirements. Some games may be able to get to 1440p to use checkerboard rendering, but not have the GPU or CPU power left to make the jump even at 30fps.

 

[hesido]

Again, that means little because different games have different requirements. Some games may be able to get to 1440p to use checkerboard rendering, but not have the GPU or CPU power left to make the jump even at 30fps.

He's talking about games that run at 60fps with the trick. The 4K 30fps option should be achieved pretty easily, since some costs of rendering are the same irrespective of the resolution, so an added 16ms's to render twice the pixels should be achievable without much work (And TLOU even adds high quality shadows as it gets margin to spare)

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Add VizionEck to the list. I've asked about framerates and no answer yet:

edit: 4K/60fps

Since the list is so skimpy, feel free to add VizionEck. I don't have a PS4 Pro dev kit but for a while it was running 4K native on standard PS4.

http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?msg=179173

 

[onQ123]

Again, that means little because different games have different requirements. Some games may be able to get to 1440p to use checkerboard rendering, but not have the GPU or CPU power left to make the jump even at 30fps.

He's talking about games that run at 60fps with the trick. The 4K 30fps option should be achieved pretty easily, since some costs of rendering are the same irrespective of the resolution, so an added 16ms's to render twice the pixels should be achievable without much work (And TLOU even adds high quality shadows as it gets margin to spare)

 

[Inuhanyou]

He's talking about games that run at 60fps with the trick. The 4K 30fps option should be achieved pretty easily, since some costs of rendering are the same irrespective of the resolution, so an added 16ms's to render twice the pixels should be achievable without much work (And TLOU even adds high quality shadows as it gets margin to spare)

What trick? Checkerboard rendering isn't a trick. And i'm saying just because a game can do checkerboard rendering at 60fps in some form doesn't mean a game is automatically going to be 4K ready if you cut the FPS in half

 

[Lady Gaia]

It doesn't have to switch rendering strategies because the rendering job is just being split up so if you're standing still every pixel in the frame actually gets rendered.

I understand the rendering strategy very well, thank you. I was referring to the OP which states that COD:IW "shifts to native 4K when you stand still", which is simply not true. The only circumstances under which you'll get a results identical to native 4K are when absolutely nothing changes between frames, and then only if you presume filtering to reduce motion artifacts is selectively disabled. So no, it's not rendering in native 4K which is the point of the thread.

None of which is saying it won't look glorious. For many titles I suspect people will be hard pressed to tell the difference while actually playing the game. Checkerboard rendering is a smart trade-off making the best possible use of available compute resources.

Also if PS4 Pro can render Call of Duty 60fps 4K using checkerboard rendering that should make it clear that it can also render these same graphics in native 4K at 30fps

Quite possibly, though if they use MSAA instead of SSAA to get enough fill rate to cover fully half of a 4K frame then that's not the case. Regardless,, it isn't a 30fps title so it's all moot.

 

[onQ123]

I understand the rendering strategy very well, thank you. I was referring to the OP which states that COD:IW "shifts to native 4K when you stand still", which is simply not true. The only circumstances under which you'll get a results identical to native 4K are when absolutely nothing changes between frames, and then only if you presume filtering to reduce motion artifacts is selectively disabled. So no, it's not rendering in native 4K which is the point of the thread.

None of which is saying it won't look glorious. For many titles I suspect people will be hard pressed to tell the difference while actually playing the game. Checkerboard rendering is a smart trade-off making the best possible use of available compute resources.



Quite possibly, though if they use MSAA instead of SSAA to get enough fill rate to cover fully half of a 4K frame then that's not the case. Regardless,, it isn't a 30fps title so it's all moot.

Actually you're the only one who said anything about the rendering strategy changing.

I take what was in the op to mean that the frame becomes a fully sampled 4K frame because the camera was still in the same place when field A & field B was rendered & not that they actually switched from checkerboard rendering to sampling the full 4K frame at once.

 

[Phreaker]

I'd take 1080p/60fps over 4k/30fps, so I'm thinking I'll be playing my PS4 Pro at 1080p on my 4k TV.

 

[Aces&Eights]

I'm pretty excited for all this. Picking up the Pro on launch day and plan on getting a 4k after the Christmas rush in Jan 2017. I think there will be some great deals on the 2016 models that have HDR10 since it will be considered "year old" and the new models will be starting to arrive. I am stuck between the Vizio 65" P Series or the Sammy KS9500. I am hoping I will be able to snag one for $1500.00.

Really excited to see the new games that are coming out like Horizon Zero Dawn. I will have some back log to hold me through the rest of the year like Deus Ex, Mafia 3 and possibly Battlefield but I think the games in 2017 are where the HDR/4K will really shine.