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Red Dead Redemption 2 Version 1.00 Discussion Thread

I'm not sure how well known much of this information is by everyone here on GAF but there are rumors out there in the gaming nether that Rockstar secretly downgraded and changed many aspects of RDR2 over the course of it's life cycle.

Now, some things are obvious in current versions such as the inability to dress Arthur in his buttoned up winter jacket from the prologue, as well as the inability to remove his shirt entirely, leaving his chest and back exposed to the elements.

But other things such as the removal of a few lanterns outside the Valentine general store or the reduced population of animals may not be as well known by the general playerbase.

It goes even deeper than that and that's where things start getting interesting. In v1.00 Arthur and John especially, as well as Pierson all look different than they do in updated versions. Arthur looks more rugged and bit uglier. John looks much closer to his original character model in RDR1. In updated versions of the game, Rockstar replaced Johns animation and modeling rig with Arthur's chest, making him look out of proportion. Pierson is also much uglier and is portrayed as much more of a fat slob than the Jolly fat man that he seems to be in the updated versions.

On a note about the animal population, there are abundantly more animals in v1.00. Whitetail Deer herds occur more frequently, in more areas and they are of greater numbers sometimes reaching closer to 8-10 at a time. Turkeys are a much more common animal to come across as well.

There are even possible changes to the dynamic weather. In v1.00 there are noticeably thicker fog banks and volumetric at play that occur at a much more frequent frequency.

I found out about this through the few youtube channels covering the subject such as WesternRev, RedsDeadBaby and Andristo 20 (I'll link all of their channels below). I found it so fascinating in fact that I decided to join them in this research endeavor and over the past year and a half have been playing the game solely in v1.00 and capturing videos along the way.

So I wanted to make an offical discussion thread on GAF for any others who would like to join in on the fun and experimentation.

In order to get this version of the game all you need is the disc version on either Xbox or Playstation (I currently play the PS4 version on my PS5) install the disc and do not update it.

If you save a game in v1.00 and then update the game and overwrite that save, you CANNOT recover your v1.00 save file and will have to start all over again from the beginning of the game. So make sure you have at least two saves in v1.00 just incase.

Feel free to hangout here, discuss any differences that you may find as well as post any screenshots and videos you may capture.

Current things I'd like to solve... (I will keep this section updated with anything we can discover.)

  • What resolution does v1.00 run in on Playstation (I believe it's 1080p but I'm not sure) and Xbox?
  • Does v1.00 on Xbox run in native 4K?

Links to youtube channels that cover this topic...





https://www.youtube.com/@Tomofdahook17 (My Channel)

Interesting Videos







My Own RDR2 v1.00 Playlist

 
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That's interesting. I works have never known that these types of things were being tweaked after release.
Yea there are even more things that I didn't mention like more frequent random encounters and things like that. There just is so few people testing these things out that it's hard to actually know what has really changed and what may be placebo.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
Yea there are even more things that I didn't mention like more frequent random encounters and things like that. There just is so few people testing these things out that it's hard to actually know what has really changed and what may be placebo.
Could be like the Mandela effect, as in the placebo derives from the power of suggestion. In other words, the question itself plants the false memory.
 
Could be like the Mandela effect, as in the placebo derives from the power of suggestion. In other words, the question itself plants the false memory.
I don't think it's like that but I do think things like dynamic weather systems and volumetric fog banks, etc., are just very hard to actually document properly due to how many variations of them there are in the game.

But things like character models and many more animals are VERY noticeable.

At one point v1.00 had better AO for shadows but I know that actually got fixed in a recent patch.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
I don't think it's like that but I do think things like dynamic weather systems and volumetric fog banks, etc., are just very hard to actually document properly due to how many variations of them there are in the game.

But things like character models and many more animals are VERY noticeable.

At one point v1.00 had better AO for shadows but I know that actually got fixed in a recent patch.
Oh I agree that some changes were made as they can be documented and proven with hard evidence. I was just referring to the more ambiguous claims.
 
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killatopak

Member
It's been a long time since I've seen discussion about this. I believe I argued once about the existence of physical discs today exactly because of RDR 1.0 as an example.

Great work compiling stuff.

Cousin borrowed my RDR2 and GTAV copy. Might be time to bother him to revisit the game.
 

ultrazilla

Gold Member
I'm not sure how well known much of this information is by everyone here on GAF but there are rumors out there in the gaming nether that Rockstar secretly downgraded and changed many aspects of RDR2 over the course of it's life cycle.

Now, some things are obvious in current versions such as the inability to dress Arthur in his buttoned up winter jacket from the prologue, as well as the inability to remove his shirt entirely, leaving his chest and back exposed to the elements.

But other things such as the removal of a few lanterns outside the Valentine general store or the reduced population of animals may not be as well known by the general playerbase.

It goes even deeper than that and that's where things start getting interesting. In v1.00 Arthur and John especially, as well as Pierson all look different than they do in updated versions. Arthur looks more rugged and bit uglier. John looks much closer to his original character model in RDR1. In updated versions of the game, Rockstar replaced Johns animation and modeling rig with Arthur's chest, making him look out of proportion. Pierson is also much uglier and is portrayed as much more of a fat slob than the Jolly fat man that he seems to be in the updated versions.

On a note about the animal population, there are abundantly more animals in v1.00. Whitetail Deer herds occur more frequently, in more areas and they are of greater numbers sometimes reaching closer to 8-10 at a time. Turkeys are a much more common animal to come across as well.

There are even possible changes to the dynamic weather. In v1.00 there are noticeably thicker fog banks and volumetric at play that occur at a much more frequent frequency.

I found out about this through the few youtube channels covering the subject such as WesternRev, RedsDeadBaby and Andristo 20 (I'll link all of their channels below). I found it so fascinating in fact that I decided to join them in this research endeavor and over the past year and a half have been playing the game solely in v1.00 and capturing videos along the way.

So I wanted to make an offical discussion thread on GAF for any others who would like to join in on the fun and experimentation.

In order to get this version of the game all you need is the disc version on either Xbox or Playstation (I currently play the PS4 version on my PS5) install the disc and do not update it.

If you save a game in v1.00 and then update the game and overwrite that save, you CANNOT recover your v1.00 save file and will have to start all over again from the beginning of the game. So make sure you have at least two saves in v1.00 just incase.

Feel free to hangout here, discuss any differences that you may find as well as post any screenshots and videos you may capture.

Current things I'd like to solve... (I will keep this section updated with anything we can discover.)

  • What resolution does v1.00 run in on Playstation (I believe it's 1080p but I'm not sure) and Xbox?
  • Does v1.00 on Xbox run in native 4K?

Links to youtube channels that cover this topic...





https://www.youtube.com/@Tomofdahook17 (My Channel)

Interesting Videos







My Own RDR2 v1.00 Playlist



Fantastic idea for a thread Games of Today Games of Today . I suspect there are many other games out there where the games are secretly updated with nerfs(Destiny 2) or graphical downgrades such as the OP's Red Dead Redemption 2.
RDR2 seems especially guilty of this.
 
Oh I agree that some changes were made as they can be documented and proven with hard evidence. I was just referring to the more ambiguous claims.
Right, with some aspects it's hard to tell if it's actually changed or not. You would have to go a lot harder than I do, maybe have two screen running both versions side by side in real time.
 
You've played to much Red dead 2 OP 🤣. Go play another game
I've actually only beaten the game once haha.

I mainly just use it for virtual camping. I've actually been marking every wilderness campfire site that you can stay at on one of the physical maps that came inside the game box.

I'm pretty confident I'm the only person who is doing that.
 
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Vick

Member
The only real Red Dead Redemption 2.







Updated version looks infinitely worse to my eyes and just feels intrinsically different. I have thousands of hours on this game, but all rigorously on version 1.00 because the pop-In, gamey lighting, cheap AO, missing light sources and many other differences just translate into a drastically different and inferior experience in every visual facet.

And this naturally also affects the PC version, for starters AO is simply unmatched however mostly noticed on character faces in still comparisons (the lack of screen space artifacts can only be appreaciated in motion):

efceW8m.gif


DDD29B00-5156-4A21-899F-C196EAD31284.gif


And in general the unique pre-rendered quality just isn't there anymore.

02CAE6DF-04DA-498E-9560-2F1A6FD40D19.gif


75703F09-7C1C-4259-8798-323DCEBA4A3A.gif


723C7221-399D-463D-9A62-191B721404E3.gif


4AE82583-7387-4149-929F-8D5C04C53D30.gif


And what's possibly worse is draw distance (also affecting PC max settings), LOD management is simply jaw dropping in 1.00 with practically non-existent pop-in, when any version after display tons of missing trees/shadows all over the place.

253BB2EE-E5FC-496E-A1E3-32EB5CB17803.gif


4DEFF4E7-2B4C-4242-AC0C-D2A006DDA5F2.gif


37832166-3707-4F7C-B0F6-A9D08B5846FD.gif


Look behind the characters in the distance, it's a massive downgrade:

6B7C595D-6AC3-4655-9477-E119F1D0E0F3.gif


C3F118FD-1D87-49C8-A09D-7EF65BADC595.gif


D1BB867A-F9A0-4784-9B0E-2E8D83D53E46.gif


0271BB8B-387C-4ADD-8463-8731E419142E.gif


Red Dead Redemption 2 version 1.00 on One/Series X is still the most impressive game ever made. But that version in general is, to the point even the not native resolution PS4 Pro version is impressive:

kW7O9mH.png


hxFVE7A.png


QB4MMc3.png


vQm3BIq.png


OEOXQyY.png


zs93XBF.png


scirkhT.png


cE1T5Rd.png


tQ4P9uY.png


9HKtaxB.png


yJHj8wp.png


kREXrBc.png


AiAENHp.png


Qxf8l6c.png

Additionally, on 1.00 you can have a Turkoman with Arthur, along with many other things necessary for a perfect Chapter 2 save.

This version is the reason why I never wanted a 60fps patch, but demand instead a proper and completely restored current gen version, not dissimilar to the one GTA V received.
 
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It's been a long time since I've seen discussion about this. I believe I argued once about the existence of physical discs today exactly because of RDR 1.0 as an example.

Great work compiling stuff.

Cousin borrowed my RDR2 and GTAV copy. Might be time to bother him to revisit the game.
Thank you! And yes you should!
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
MAYBE
and just maybe
it is because GTA VI is about to come in a not so distant future, and since uses some assets and etc, chances are that they downgrade the older game to the new one have the best marketing possible
 
The only real Red Dead Redemption 2.







Updated version looks infinitely worse to my eyes and just feels intrinsically different. I have thousands of hours on this game, but all rigorously on version 1.00 because the pop-In, gamey lighting, cheap AO, missing light sources and many other differences just translate into a drastically different and inferior experience in every visual facet.

And this naturally also affects the PC version, for starters AO is simply unmatched however mostly noticed on character faces in still comparisons (the lack of screen space artifacts can only be appreaciated in motion):

efceW8m.gif


DDD29B00-5156-4A21-899F-C196EAD31284.gif


And in general the unique pre-rendered quality just isn't there anymore.

02CAE6DF-04DA-498E-9560-2F1A6FD40D19.gif


75703F09-7C1C-4259-8798-323DCEBA4A3A.gif


723C7221-399D-463D-9A62-191B721404E3.gif


4AE82583-7387-4149-929F-8D5C04C53D30.gif


And what's possibly worse is draw distance (also affecting PC max settings), LOD management is simply jaw dropping in 1.00 with practically non-existent pop-in, when any version after display tons of missing trees/shadows all over the place.

253BB2EE-E5FC-496E-A1E3-32EB5CB17803.gif


4DEFF4E7-2B4C-4242-AC0C-D2A006DDA5F2.gif


37832166-3707-4F7C-B0F6-A9D08B5846FD.gif


Look behind the characters in the distance, it's a massive downgrade:

6B7C595D-6AC3-4655-9477-E119F1D0E0F3.gif


C3F118FD-1D87-49C8-A09D-7EF65BADC595.gif


D1BB867A-F9A0-4784-9B0E-2E8D83D53E46.gif


0271BB8B-387C-4ADD-8463-8731E419142E.gif


Red Dead Redemption 2 version 1.00 on One/Series X is still the most impressive game ever made. But that version in general is, to the point even the not native resolution PS4 Pro version is impressive:

kW7O9mH.png


hxFVE7A.png


QB4MMc3.png


vQm3BIq.png


OEOXQyY.png


zs93XBF.png


scirkhT.png


cE1T5Rd.png


tQ4P9uY.png


9HKtaxB.png


yJHj8wp.png


kREXrBc.png


AiAENHp.png


Qxf8l6c.png

Additionally, on 1.00 you can have a Turkomann with Arthur, along with many other things necessary for a perfect Chapter 2 save.

This version is the reason why I never wanted a 60fps patch, but demand instead a proper and completely restored current gen version, not dissimilar to the one GTA V received.

Outstanding comparisons Vick, are these screenshots taken by you?

And where did you find these comparison gifs? Were they made by WesternRev?

Which platform do you play on? PS or Xbox? I'm guessing these are Xbox screenshots because they seem to be a higher resolution than what I can achieve.
 
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Vick

Member
Outstanding comparisons Vick, are these screenshots taken by you?

And where did you find these comparison gifs? Were they made by WesternRev?
No sir, these were all collected from GTA-Forums.

Which platform do you play on? PS or Xbox? I'm guessing these are Xbox screenshots because they seem to be a higher resolution than what I can achieve.
I have both versions simply because I needed to own the best version (One/Series X), but comparisons aside all the screenshots and video I posted are my own and from my PS4 Pro thousands of hours save.

Resolution is just that, they are all native PS Share screenshots and all gameplay, as there's no Photo-Mode in version 1.00.
 

Viz108

Neo Member
I'm not really a technical guy, but what possible reasons might Rockstar have to downgrade graphics post-release? Maybe for improved performance in online? Lowering standards for the rest of their games? It seems like an odd choice to make.
 
I'm not really a technical guy, but what possible reasons might Rockstar have to downgrade graphics post-release? Maybe for improved performance in online? Lowering standards for the rest of their games? It seems like an odd choice to make.
Yes, most of it is 100% for online. As well as some aspects in story mode such as performance. Once in a while you’ll get a little hitch here and there in v1.00 but nothing drastic. Rockstar definitely wanted to smooth all of that out.
 

Vick

Member
I'm not really a technical guy, but what possible reasons might Rockstar have to downgrade graphics post-release? Maybe for improved performance in online? Lowering standards for the rest of their games? It seems like an odd choice to make.
This is the reason.

And performance in general, as some light sources in Valentine were removed after Digital Foundry complained about specific drops in a cutscene at the time.

Obviously when played on current gen machines 1.00 performance are perfect.
 

Viz108

Neo Member
Yes, most of it is 100% for online. As well as some aspects in story mode such as performance. Once in a while you’ll get a little hitch here and there in v1.00 but nothing drastic. Rockstar definitely wanted to smooth all of that out.
Ironic considering Red Dead Online is all but dead nowadays. Only support Rockstar gave for it was degrading it :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Beer Baelly

Al Pachinko, Konami President
Never knew about this. Finished it at release. Might replay it with a 60fps mode but if it looks worse...dunno
 
Never knew about this. Finished it at release. Might replay it with a 60fps mode but if it looks worse...dunno
On PS it's a lower resolution I'm guessing checkerboard 1080p but it's hard to tell. I know at some point it was bumped to 1800p checkerboard solution but I don't know if that was patched in at some point or if it was from the start. On Xbox it may be native 4K.

From what we've seen with Digital Foundry, in theory if you had a jailborken PS5 you could play this mode in 60fps I believe.
 

makaveli60

Member
Once I will replay it I will have to sacrifice HDR unfortunately, because I will definitely play the 1.00 version again (thank God for physical releases). Even when I played it originally I had to reinstall it quite many times because of automatic updates on ps4 (when I failed to catch and cancel it) but I knew that I had to avoid the updates to be able to enjoy it in its best form. All this downgrade because of some little framerate hiccups, people like these drive me mad…
 
Once I will replay it I will have to sacrifice HDR unfortunately, because I will definitely play the 1.00 version again (thank God for physical releases). Even when I played it originally I had to reinstall it quite many times because of automatic updates on ps4 (when I failed to catch and cancel it) but I knew that I had to avoid the updates to be able to enjoy it in its best form. All this downgrade because of some little framerate hiccups, people like these drive me mad…
This is probably the ONLY game where I actually don't mind sacrificing the HDR because even though the fixed it, the fixed version still doesn't use pure blacks like their SDR solution does. The default colors are also beautiful. So it never really bothers me in this game.
 

Forth

Member
I absolutely knew things had been changed, one thing I never replayed after my first try when first released was the first mission into Valentine with Uncle and the girls.
After the fight in the bar the horses and carriage was still where I left it when first arriving but it's never there anymore after being updated.
 
I absolutely knew things had been changed, one thing I never replayed after my first try when first released was the first mission into Valentine with Uncle and the girls.
After the fight in the bar the horses and carriage was still where I left it when first arriving but it's never there anymore after being updated.
That's very interesting. Thanks for the info!
 

XOMTOR

Member
Interesting thread and great timing; just picked up a cheap Xbox disc. Guess I'll make sure to turn off game updates and play through on v1.00. Now to find the time to play....
 

buenoblue

Member
Obviously it's more expensive but if you get the chance to play this on PC you really should. The game is quite performant and playing at high res and high framerate the game is beautiful
 
This shit always pisses me off about Rockstar. It's nothing new, it's been their MO for decades now. You can see the same phenomenon happening with GTA 5 and even 4 as well. For instance on PC, GTA 4 performs better and has better looking shadows in patch 1.0.4.0, which came out basically at launch as they were rapidly fixing the PC port at the time. Compare it to the latest versions with a totally worse shadow rendering system and much worse performance, broken dynamic lights on interiors, etc and it's like good fucking job Rockstar. GTA 5 they introduced some bug years ago, I reported it to them and they never bothered fixing it. I made two videos about it here:

Good version:


Bad version to today:
 
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Vick

Member
Obviously it's more expensive but if you get the chance to play this on PC you really should. The game is quite performant and playing at high res and high framerate the game is beautiful
He obviously should if he wants to try the sublime high framerate, but this Thread is about 1.00 and PC version is the fully downgraded code with the addition of long shadows, better water physics and (broken) higher resolution SSR.

On One/Series X the game already runs at native 4K, and on these and Pro 1.00 uses Ultra Textures, Ultra Geometry, better Draw Distance and Ambient Occlusion than any setting on PC, additional light sources, better facial hair and so on.

When you're used to 1.00 there's just no other way to play unfortunately, every alternative looks artistically compromised, sterile, gamey and glitchy (broken reflections and broken LOD).

This shit always pisses me off about Rockstar. It's nothing new, it's been their MO for decades now.
It's the most infuriating shit ever.

GTAV current Gen port and the updated PS4 version of RDR are probably the only Rockstar uncompromised re-releases in history.
 
Wait so you can button Arthur’s coat when playing that 1.0 version ?
Yes and no. You can’t deliberately button it but you can save his outfit from the prologue. As long as it’s there it won’t disappear. You can also remove his coat from that specific outfit and he is now shirtless which can also be saved as an outfit.
 
He obviously should if he wants to try the sublime high framerate, but this Thread is about 1.00 and PC version is the fully downgraded code with the addition of long shadows, better water physics and (broken) higher resolution SSR.

On One/Series X the game already runs at native 4K, and on these and Pro 1.00 uses Ultra Textures, Ultra Geometry, better Draw Distance and Ambient Occlusion than any setting on PC, additional light sources, better facial hair and so on.

When you're used to 1.00 there's just no other way to play unfortunately, every alternative looks artistically compromised, sterile, gamey and glitchy (broken reflections and broken LOD).


It's the most infuriating shit ever.

GTAV current Gen port and the updated PS4 version of RDR are probably the only Rockstar uncompromised re-releases in history.
Obviously it's more expensive but if you get the chance to play this on PC you really should. The game is quite performant and playing at high res and high framerate the game is beautiful
I actually built a PC with an I9 and a 4090 with 64gb of ram and guess what, RDR2’s screen space shadows are broken. I can literally watch them load on on the edges of my screen and I don’t know how to fix it. I might try to reinstall it at some point, but again even if it worked it doesn’t have the fascination of v1.00 for me.

Something about v1.00 makes it look much more like a moving painting. I honestly think the 30fps helps with that effect to some extent. I’m pretty much a full 60fps+ gamer at this point but this is one game that I’ll make an exception for to play a better version of it. And it does help that the 30fps feels smoother in this game than many other game at this framerate.

I believe Vick, it must run in 4K by default on Series X and I’m like 98% sure now that v1.00 runs in checkerboard 1800p on the PS5. I just wish we could get this original version on PC somehow. There is a mod that adds some things back from v1.00 like face models I think, but the mod creator even said he doesn’t know all of the differences so it’s more of a fake version.
 
He obviously should if he wants to try the sublime high framerate, but this Thread is about 1.00 and PC version is the fully downgraded code with the addition of long shadows, better water physics and (broken) higher resolution SSR.

On One/Series X the game already runs at native 4K, and on these and Pro 1.00 uses Ultra Textures, Ultra Geometry, better Draw Distance and Ambient Occlusion than any setting on PC, additional light sources, better facial hair and so on.

When you're used to 1.00 there's just no other way to play unfortunately, every alternative looks artistically compromised, sterile, gamey and glitchy (broken reflections and broken LOD).


It's the most infuriating shit ever.

GTAV current Gen port and the updated PS4 version of RDR are probably the only Rockstar uncompromised re-releases in history.
But is the GTA 5 Current gen game really uncompromised?

You seem to have a great understanding comparing remasters or new versions.

As far as I know, GTA 5 on fidelity looks the best out of all the versions, but is any setting still better on PC for one?
 

Perrott

Gold Member
But is the GTA 5 Current gen game really uncompromised?

You seem to have a great understanding comparing remasters or new versions.

As far as I know, GTA 5 on fidelity looks the best out of all the versions, but is any setting still better on PC for one?
Yes, LOD settings and draw distances are still better on PC than on the next-gen consoles.

Stupid that they didn't crank everything up to 11 for the PS5/XSX versions for a truly definitive rendition of the game, I know.
 
It makes sense that you see these downgrades after release because what happens is the game comes out, people complain that the performance is bad, and the easiest path for devs to improve performance is to turn visual options down. It's better if they can keep the same visual targets but optimize the codebase, but one is infinitely easier than the other.
 
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Vick

Member
But is the GTA 5 Current gen game really uncompromised?

You seem to have a great understanding comparing remasters or new versions.

As far as I know, GTA 5 on fidelity looks the best out of all the versions, but is any setting still better on PC for one?
Uncompromised meaning no recorded downgrade compared to the first release (PS4/One version).

Lod/draw distance are noticeably better maxed out on PC for instance, but those on console are the ones featured in the PS4/One version so infinitely better than the OG 360/PS3 release and really effective still.
If you ask me, yes, I'd rank even the Performance Mode above the PC version thanks to better AA and impeccable ray traced shadows.
 
I found old pics from my last v1.00 out of the map excursion. You can camp outside the of “slip boundary” on Tempest Rim and explore into Canada and Mexico.

A1alY1c.jpg
QWL5rYo.jpg
HjrAucD.jpg
Qit8c2D.jpg
67CGtVB.jpg
VsZbIno.jpg
GAm8rDx.jpg
wCkX0Nb.jpg
pIcR7j2.jpg
kg4Z6ns.jpg
SSiH9Hh.jpg
1be2vsK.jpg
vjJVRJh.jpg
M9fNPvK.jpg
Rb5vu0k.jpg
 
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