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Riots erupt in Swedens capital just days after Trump comments (small scale)
- Thread starter Shiggy
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TyrantGuardian
Member
The counterpoint is that there were 30-40 people involved and that none of them were refugees but rather people who have lived in the area and been somewhat criminally active for a while. Good luck educating them on poverty (which btw is a relatively minor issue in Sweden, along with generally low crime rates) and segregation being the main cause of crime rather than ethnicity though...
Royal_Phalanx
Member
This is international news now? Pretty sure stuff like this happens in every poor neighborhood in every city around the world, unfortunately. Focus on fixing poverty and poor educational achievement.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Not really
This is not that kind of riot, these kids and young adults are being used by a few local gang leaders to stop the police from disrupting their activities (selling Cannabis and stolen goods mostly), these leaders are older and life time criminals, they offer iphones and other status symbols as a way of introducing kids to petty crime.
This is not a refugee problem - these kids are second generation immigrants, they are born in Sweden - this is not a cultural or religious problem, this is primarily an issue of the police being unable to keep the real criminals from influencing and using vulnerable youths in the suburbs.
Trickster
Member
No offense, but why would you waste your time doing this? I mean, the chances that you'd ever manage to convince trump supporters via facebook of all places, of anything different than what they already believe, is probably less than your chances of winning the lottery.
Are you referring to the same problem that we have in denmark, with people of non-native ethnic backgrounds ending up in the apartment complexes relatively seperated from the rest of the culture they live in?
TyrantGuardian
Member
What country has, though? As far as segregation and poverty goes Sweden isn't doing as bad as the alt-reich nazi scum would have you believe. Shit happens, it isn't perfect but it also isn't anything even closely resembling a disaster, especially when compared to any other countries of its size or larger.
Slightly off-topic but somewhat related: https://www.citylab.com/politics/2017/02/whats-wrong-with-sweden/517317/?utm_source=atlfb
FlutterPuffs
Member
....so it's basically a gang riot.
hydrophilic attack
Member
yes
and also, we don't really have geographic segregation specifically among ethnic lines
we have traditionally rather large geographic segregation based on wealth in general, and since wealth and economic strength are rather unevenly distributed between different ethnicities, this brings with it ethnic segregation
That is a huge problem here yes. Rinkeby is such a place. When I was a kid I was told by many not to go to these places because of the violence and whatevs. It happens that way because they get segregated instead of integrated into society while the Swedish Migration Agency and other important places treat them poorly.
Many are not given a chance to integrate properly and that's why we have a "problem" in some areas. It's mostly our fault.
Yes. I don't understand what's so hard to spread out the refugees like we do in Switzerland. Each city and village get a certain amount of people, making it easier for everybody to mix in.
Just for clarification: I do think that Sweden deals with it much better than many countries.
We're actually trying a lot more now since the latest "wave" of refugees at least but we experienced a new problem. some of them don't want to live here!
A bunch of them are protesting when they don't end up in or near the bigger cities. They get sent on busses to different smaller towns in the middle of the country or here up north (where we could use some multiculturalism for sure) and some just refuse to get off the bus.
The Swedish Migration Agency is not making it easier by being horrible to deal with both for people who want to help the refugees/immigrants and for different kinds of immigrants in general. I think the biggest problem Sweden has with immigration is the horrible Agency.
But that's just the ones that get into the bigger media ofc. There are great stories of people coming to these places too and getting integrated real well, but those end up in local papers at most.
Agreed, this sounds like a whole lot of nothing. Of course that won't stop the Trumpidiots from screeching about it.
TyrantGuardian
Member
I mean most Swedes refuse to live in remote areas up north as well, so...
But yes, the agency definitely needs to be organized better. I remember when I was a refugee as a child and our family having a really hard time getting any information from them at all. Like, we had no idea if we would be allowed to stay or not. Luckily it all worked out in the end but for a few weeks we were actually living in a small closet in a hotel while they sorted our shit out. That's pretty bad and hopefully things have gotten better for refugees now.
Another major issue is how badly Sweden integrates university degrees from certain other countries, effectively barring highly educated people from taking jobs in their fields of competence and instead just settling for lower paying jobs because they just don't have it in them to do another 3-4 years of studying while simultaneously having to sustain themselves economically in a country where they have no family or community around them to provide support.
But again, this goes for pretty much every country when it comes to refugees and isn't unique to Sweden. Hopefully Sweden will be the first to actually solve these issues as long as the idiots in our country don't give more power to white supremacy fascists.
Ive lived in one of those places ten years ago, and I can tell you no one talks swedish.
Many dont want (feel the need) to learn swedish, and its not that strange since you live with
your family and relatives in these places and everyone speaks languages like arabic.
They talk arabic with their kids, and they live a arabic life in sweden.
You go to the doctor, there are signs in arabic etc.
Its like they never moved anywhere.
According to a big newspaper in sweden (dagens nyheter) back in 2007 only 33% of the immigrants fullfilled their lessions in Swedish for immigrants.
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/lattare-fa-arbete-for-den-som-klarat-sfi/
In 2016 there was 3400 teachers for SFI (Swedish for immigrants) and only 39% of these teachers had the right competence according to swedish teacher institute and they think atleast 2500 was needed back then https://www.lararforbundet.se/artiklar/maanga-sfi-elever-slutfor-inte-sina-kurser
according to swedish school institute, there was 3500 SFI-teachers who had 24,1 students each in average in late 2015 http://www.skolverket.se/statistik-och-utvardering/statistik-i-tabeller/snabbfakta-1.120821
That is 3500*24,1 = 84k people who learned SFI in late 2015, and if those statistics of 33% from 2007 is still viable in 2015 only 28k students fullfilled their SFI, making it 56k people who droped out without learning swedish.
But last year 2016 according to migrationsverket 71,5k immigrants got ok to stay in sweden, and 39k relatives to these 71.5k immigrants making it probably over 100k new people in need of SFI to learn swedish.
https://www.migrationsverket.se/dow...63068/Asylsökande+till+Sverige+2000-2016.xlsx
I think they should put more effort into getting them to learn swedish as fast as possible before they can do anything else.
And how to get a job if you cant talk or read the language?
And with no job, how can you get away from these neighbourhoods?
Then next thing is that also affects swedens PISA-score (Programme for International Student Assessment).
according to http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22439081.ab so is 22% of the worsening score in math and understandning of reading cause of immigrants.
So we should make sure that they learn the language before anything else as Ive said earlier, and since the school is free of charge they cant say its cause of economic reasons that they dont fullfil them.
and when they've learned swedish, then they can apply for more jobs, and when they get a job, they earn money, and when they earn money they can live anywhere they want.
That is, if they really want to learn swedish. (and if the lack of teachers is a problem, they should get more money into getting more teachers for this, since this can save lots of money further on)
Gotta try, man! I don't like letting stupid, Trump-tastic posts go unchallenged. At the very least, I've seen a few posters double check sources before posting dumb shit up. No one wants to put something up and have a friend make them look stupid. Some don't care - and those are the ones I won't take time with.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
When the bus thing happened close to me, the issue was that a couple of the elders, the patriarchs, refused to get off, whereas the rest had to stay out of respect. When they interviewed them afterwards, the story from the immigrants was that they weren't told where they were being taken, as well did all of the younger ones admit that they didn't want to stay on the bus, but that they had to because of their patriarchs.
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