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[badb0y]

The reboot struggled to meet sales expectations despite being released on nearly all the platforms.

Now the sequel is going to be exclusive on one platform that's being outsold by it's rival by a significant factor.

No way is RofTR going to be permanently exclusive.

Sales don't matter, the bank is already full with dat Microsoft money.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

The people have spoken, lol.

tombraiderforums went full on nuclear. The most die hard fans saying their favourite franchise is dead, they hate SE and Crystal dynamics and am totally not surprised that the vats majority wanted to buy it on PS4 and PC.

Thats what really makes this decision so stupid. The vast majority of their fan base were on those two systems.

It has to be said though many people don't know its timed exclusive (which is what we on neogaf have concluded).

 

[Krilekk]

I have a hard time believing "a couple of million" they (MS) would at least need to cover the loss of sales that it would have made had it been on the PS4. And as Sony gains more of a lead, it going to get more and more expensive for MS as time goes on.

Having a larger install base doesn't automatically equal bigger sales because with a larger install base you also get more games in general which means overall less sales per console for the median title. But about those millions: They predicted sales of 6 million for TR and ended up with 3.6 million. How should they predict what it would sell on PS4? It might end up being half of that. Less platforms also means less development costs. So let's just for the fun of it assume this (numbers made up, based on past titles):

Game costs 50 million to develop multiplatform
Game has an additional marketing budget of 50 million
Game needs to sell 3.4 million units to break even

Exclusive:

Game costs 45 million to develop (only one platform and additional tech support from partner)
Game's marketing budget of 25 million is paid by the partner
Game needs to sell 1.5 million units to break even

You see how it can be very tempting for a publisher to go timed exclusive? They can then spend an additional five million on the PS4 version and have almost pure profit from that after 170k copies sold because by that time word of mouth has done the job that marketing does before launch. And SE is on record for stating that they are looking for new ways to maximize profits.

 

[In Service]

Can we all just bookmark the most explosive and dramatic posts in this thread for when the Final Hours of Tomb Raider comes out so we can all see what really went on?

Other than that, carry on. Its a fun read.

 

[Hyunashi]

Almost 150 pages in less than a day, wasn't this game a mediocre TPS of which nobody cares about?

At this point, its not about the game. Its about what MS did to make it exclusive and about SE shitting on a large majority of the TR fanbase.

 

[Darknight]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

Wonderful post! Love nothing but truth, its so good.

I dont blame MS though I mean they have no real IPs of their own, their system is selling really bad so they have to find something to keep people interested or get people's attentions somehow.

At the end of the day, the ones suffering from this mess is TR fans and SE possibly lost some cred from its die hard fans. Im not one of them, dont really mind the time exclusivity but I am sure alot of TR fans are pissed as hell.

 

[Chiggs]

Having a larger install base doesn't automatically equal bigger sales because with a larger install base you also get more games in general which means overall less sales per console for the median title. But about those millions: They predicted sales of 6 million for TR and ended up with 3.6 million. How should they predict what it would sell on PS4? It might end up being half of that. Less platforms also means less development costs. So let's just for the fun of it assume this (numbers made up, based on past titles):

Game costs 50 million to develop multiplatform
Game has an additional marketing budget of 50 million
Game needs to sell 3.4 million units to break even

Exclusive:

Game costs 45 million to develop (only one platform and additional tech support from partner)
Game's marketing budget of 25 million is paid by the partner
Game needs to sell 1.5 million units to break even

You see how it can be very tempting for a publisher to go timed exclusive? They can then spend an additional five million on the PS4 version and have almost pure profit from that after 170k copies sold because by that time word of mouth has done the job that marketing does before launch. And SE is on record for stating that they are looking for new ways to maximize profits.

Good post. Pretty easy to see why the temptation is too much for publishers to resist, even though it sucks for fans of impacted franchises.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

 

[massivekettle]

Well let's put it like this:

You're a kid in a neighborhood where the ice cream truck comes through once a week. You get word that next month the Ice Cream trick will be selling a new flavor of ice cream. They did the same thing for Christmas time last year and the mystery flavor ended up being a delicious peppermint flavor. Excited about the new mystery flavor you save up a bit of money for it. The next week the ice cream truck says that the mystery flavor will only be sold to kids on the other side of the city. So, your choices are to pay for an expensive (for a kid) bus ticket to ride all the way to the other side of the city fir the price lags if paying them for the new flavor or not getting the flavor at all. Then it's revealed that despite what the I've cream truck driver told you you will eventually be able to buy that mystery flavor after an unknown amount of time passes. After finding out that not only was the ice cream being withheld from you for a rediculous reason but that you were also being deceived by the driver you decide to egg his truck the next time you see it.

So as you can see MS and SE are just getting the egging they deserve.

Unless you signed a legal and binding agreement with the Ice Cream truck, then they are under no obligation to provide you with the ice cream. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Goes back to my point about entitlement.

 

[EventHorizon]

Vote with your dollar. The only language they understand. The people who don't care will buy it. Others should hold out until the eventual multiplatform definitive edition. or some such nonsense, comes with costumes for lara croft.

I think people will. TR isn't big enough to sell consoles. I view this as a holding action so that the XB1 remains relevant to those already inclined to buy it. The game will sell a fraction of the 2013 game due to the smaller potential customer pool and be regarded as a nice-to-have game for those who can play it, but nothing more.

The best hope would be for Rise of the Tomb Rader to be a timed exclusive with the game coming to the PS4 in 2015 with free dlc included along with a performance and/or graphics bump. If it stays exclusive longer than that people will just write it off and move it to the back of the minds. It'll be like that feeling you get when you hear a serial TV drama series you like gets canceled. What's the point in getting emotionally invested in it anymore?

FYI, this is exactly how I feel about Sunset Overdrive. I'd like to buy it, but because I don't have and XB1, it just gets ignored.

 

[massivekettle]

Having a larger install base doesn't automatically equal bigger sales because with a larger install base you also get more games in general which means overall less sales per console for the median title. But about those millions: They predicted sales of 6 million for TR and ended up with 3.6 million. How should they predict what it would sell on PS4? It might end up being half of that. Less platforms also means less development costs. So let's just for the fun of it assume this (numbers made up, based on past titles):

Game costs 50 million to develop multiplatform
Game has an additional marketing budget of 50 million
Game needs to sell 3.4 million units to break even

Exclusive:

Game costs 45 million to develop (only one platform and additional tech support from partner)
Game's marketing budget of 25 million is paid by the partner
Game needs to sell 1.5 million units to break even

You see how it can be very tempting for a publisher to go timed exclusive? They can then spend an additional five million on the PS4 version and have almost pure profit from that after 170k copies sold because by that time word of mouth has done the job that marketing does before launch. And SE is on record for stating that they are looking for new ways to maximize profits.

 

[Revas]

Originally Posted by Drek

The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

These are not facts.

I get that MS is the devil this generation, but as it's been outlined in this thread; this is how they compete. They have gobs of money but no talent nor desire to curate game development, I'm not really seeing how it's a bad thing unless you're not a MS customer in which case I think is their intent. Both Sony and MS have proven that coming off huge success (PS2,360) they are susceptible to giving way to ambition and the potential for maximum profit. It's all business, always will be.

 

[Sendou]

Rise of the Tomb Raider is coming to both Xbox One and Xbox 360

Not sure if there ever was any doubt but there you go.

*good recap*

Thanks for taking the time to write this down.

 

[KageMaru]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

While much of this is true, I can't ignore the fact that without MS, we may have never gotten games like Crackdown, Phantom Dust, and Crimson Dragon. I don't like how quick they are to cut off IPs and especially studios, but in regards to those IPs, there's little chance many of them would have become successful anyways. You're also ignoring the list of awesome games they invested into for XBLA.

I haven't always agreed with it, but MS has always had a different business model than Sony or Nintendo. It looks like their past decisions may have caught up to them when we consider the amount of support they are receiving compared to Sony. I hope that with Mattrick out, they rethink their long term strategies with developers. I agree with much of your post, but at the same time I don't carry some bitterness/hatred/anger (or however way you care to describe it) towards them as many other here seem to. *shrugs*

 

[Antiwhippy]

So, if it's just a timed exclusive isn't that just what sony has been doing for awhile now?

Don't really see the big deal honestly.

 

[H4r4kiri]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

I congratulate you for the best Post I have ever read in any Forum !! Exactly my thoughts !

 

[Xando]

Originally Posted by Drek

The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

These are not facts.

I get that MS is the devil this generation, but as it's been outlined in this thread; this is how they compete. They have gobs of money but no talent nor desire to curate game development, I'm not really seeing how it's a bad thing unless you're not a MS customer in which case I think is their intent. Both Sony and MS have proven that coming off huge success (PS2,360) they are susceptible to giving way to ambition and the potential for maximum profit. It's all business, always will be.

Didnt Yusuf Mehdi talk pretty open about Ads and Kinects value for advertising partners?

TR is also coming to 360? Holiday 2015 and they still go for 360?

 

[LiK]

So, if it's just a timed exclusive isn't that just what sony has been doing for awhile now?

Don't really see the big deal honestly.

It's just something non-Xbox owners find irritating that they need to wait or buy a Xbox console to play it. Similar to guys who freaked about the really long exclusivity of the Destiny stuff for Sony.

 

[yuraya]

Well that's not true, is it. They sure like to mention it at Xbox pressers plenty enough.

I know. I just meant Xbox was the last thing Nadella/Balmer gave a shit about when they signed that 400 million dollar check to the NFL lol. So its not really fair to compare that money with game budget money. Its just not Xbox division related. Its more MS related.

 

[boredandlazy]

Having a larger install base doesn't automatically equal bigger sales because with a larger install base you also get more games in general which means overall less sales per console for the median title. But about those millions: They predicted sales of 6 million for TR and ended up with 3.6 million. How should they predict what it would sell on PS4? It might end up being half of that. Less platforms also means less development costs. So let's just for the fun of it assume this (numbers made up, based on past titles):

Game costs 50 million to develop multiplatform
Game has an additional marketing budget of 50 million
Game needs to sell 3.4 million units to break even

Exclusive:

Game costs 45 million to develop (only one platform and additional tech support from partner)
Game's marketing budget of 25 million is paid by the partner
Game needs to sell 1.5 million units to break even

You see how it can be very tempting for a publisher to go timed exclusive? They can then spend an additional five million on the PS4 version and have almost pure profit from that after 170k copies sold because by that time word of mouth has done the job that marketing does before launch. And SE is on record for stating that they are looking for new ways to maximize profits.

Sure, but that's an incredibly shortsighted business model. The less people who buy your game, less money made from DLC, less of a fan base for the next game etc.

 

[Lilalaunebaer]

Rise of the Tomb Raider is coming to both Xbox One and Xbox 360

Not sure if there ever was any doubt but there you go.



Thanks for taking the time to write this down.

As if there was even any doubt after the "exclusive for Xbox" comments.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Rise of the Tomb Raider is coming to both Xbox One and Xbox 360

Not sure if there ever was any doubt but there you go.

tldr or how I cannot access EG from work.

 

[cameron]

At this point, its not about the game. Its about what MS did to make it exclusive and about SE shitting on a large majority of the TR fanbase.

Pretty much. As mentioned eariler, the original RotTR announcement thread from E3 only had like 500 posts.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=833910

This first page is a bit amusing in light of recent news.

 

[chixdiggit]

I have a XOne but will not be buying this simply because I prefer mouse and keyboard for these type of games. It sucks because I loved the last one on PC but there are too many great games out there for me to settle on a version that is not right for me.

That being said, all of you who claim this is a dumb move because you are not going to buy it are missing the fact that MS made it worth their while in money. I am pretty sure Crystal Dynamics did the math and figured out this is the way to make the most money.

Everyone here has a selling out price just like Crystal Dynamics. Don't act like you don't.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It's just something non-Xbox owners find irritating that they need to wait or buy a Xbox console to play it. Similar to guys who freaked about the really long exclusivity of the Destiny stuff for Sony.

Yeah, but that's how it is in this "competition". Just surprised at such a large response really, though I do understand that the "timed" part wasn't made clear at the beginning.

 

[oti]

.

This is a very interesting post, I'd like to add though that Microsoft revolutionized online gaming on consoles, Xbox Live was a huge turning point for the medium and we all have to be thankful towards Microsoft for changing how we play multiplayer.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Yeah, but that's how it is in this "competition". Just surprised at such a large response really, though I do understand that the "timed" part wasn't made clear at the beginning.

It's still not been made clear.

 

[massivekettle]

Sure, but that's an incredibly shortsighted business model. The less people who buy your game, less money made from DLC, less of a fan base for the next game etc.

No, it's not short-sighted at all. It's called being a loss leader (i.e., making a loss on an investment in order to stimulate growth/profits down the line). Microsoft is using Tomb Raider to improve the Xbox One's standing against PS4 which, in turn, should generate more sales.

 

[Byron Bluth]

It's coming to Xbox 360 as well.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...aider-is-coming-to-both-xbox-one-and-xbox-360

 

[Raide]

Sure, but that's an incredibly shortsighted business model. The less people who buy your game, less money made from DLC, less of a fan base for the next game etc.

This is Tomb Raider, not some indie 2d platform game. Unless the Xbox One stops selling any units, the userbase for all games continues to increase,

 

[Unknown One]

It's still not been made clear.

Why would MS make it clear? We won't be hearing anything from them.

 

[meppi]

Ah, so it's timed after all?
Guess I'll just do what I did with Rayman after that whole stinking mess with Ubisoft and get the game when it hits the bottom of the bargain bin, or buy it used.
The way this whole thing went down and is being presented with misinformation is leaving a bad taste in my mouth, that's for sure.

 

[Revas]

Didnt Yusuf Mehdi talk pretty open about Ads and Kinects value for advertising partners?

TR is also coming to 360? Holiday 2015 and they still go for 360?

He made some comments that Ad Aware and others assumed meant that Kinect was going to be used in that manner, but MS denied it. Unless I'm missing something, I don't find the comments by Yusuf or MS thereafter conclusive enough to backup whats said above.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It's still not been made clear.

Ah, I thought it was.

 

[Kikujiro]

Financially though, the outcome is already set in stone. Rise will sell a fraction that the original did, you don't leave 10 million potential customers on the table without being given a huge cash incentive to do so. Whatever SE got from this deal was obviously worth it for them to lose such potential sales. 'Vote with your dollar' doesn't really matter when SE has already benefited from Microsoft's dollars.

In the short term yes, in the long run the brand will be severely damaged, a lot of fans will skip Temple of Osiris (why should I buy the game if you're not even releasing the next one? Even if it's good, the way CD gave the middle finger to its fans is not something people will just ignore and it's a little game, casual fans have even more reasons to ignore it), from Facebook to Twitter Crystal Dynamics and S-E are flooded with angry messages, the fansites are up in arms, even Angry Joe, who is considered an XBox fan made a video against it (you may like or not like him, but the guy has 1,5 millions of subscribers).

People are not going to forget about it, at every news about the game you can bet the reactions will always be the same, enjoy the negative hype and the bad publicity S-E, it will last until they announce the PS/PC version, but then the excitement over the game will be dead.

 

[LiK]

Yeah, but that's how it is in this "competition". Just surprised at such a large response really, though I do understand that the "timed" part wasn't made clear at the beginning.

Yea, MS being cagey about the timed stuff really made things worst.

 

[Chiggs]

This is a very interesting post, I'd like to add though that Microsoft revolutionized online gaming on consoles, Xbox Live was a huge turning point for the medium and we all have to be thankful towards Microsoft for changing how we play multiplayer.

We all should be thankful for the glory of pay to play? I'll fully admit that Live was a big step forward for a number of reasons, but it's not like it was some sort of angelic savior.

Oh, and DLC.... Fantastic!

 

[Darknight]

So, if it's just a timed exclusive isn't that just what sony has been doing for awhile now?

Don't really see the big deal honestly.

I think the first issue was the wording. They freaked alot of people into thinking it was full on exclusive. No PS4/PC version at all. This may or may not be confirmed but SE is not stupid to ignore PS4/PC. Those systems will be needed if they plan to make some more money, its that simple. At the rate xbone is selling, no way they can make 6M+ or whatever they wish for this to sell. (internally like the 1st one)

Second issue is that this game was announced months ago and it was assumed multiplatform. Why? Well TR is always a multiplatform game and with the new reboot recently along with Tomb Raider Definitive Edition on PS4, you would assume SE was keeping TR in people's mind for the next game.

All I can assure people is that The Rise of Tomb Raider has been built for a multiplatform release and will come to other systems in the future. Crystal Dynamics and/or SE would need to state that MS has bought the franchise from them for Xbone exclusively for the lifetime (like Titanfall) for me to believe that the new TR is really 'exclusive'.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Ah, I thought it was.

Nope.
And it's in Microsoft's interests to keep people confused. I expect SE/CD hands are tied, and they're not able to clarify the nature of exclusivity.

 

[glottis8]

It's coming to Xbox 360 as well.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...aider-is-coming-to-both-xbox-one-and-xbox-360

Aw.... this is kinda lame.

I was hoping this would be a true next gen title only.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

I'll just join the crowd saying what a fantastic post this is. Call me petty, call me a fanboy, but this is how I've viewed the entire Xbox brand since day one.

 

[Poona]

This is a very interesting post, I'd like to add though that Microsoft revolutionized online gaming on consoles, Xbox Live was a huge turning point for the medium and we all have to be thankful towards Microsoft for changing how we play multiplayer.

Not thankful to MS. They introduced paywalls.

 

[Revas]

In the short term yes, in the long run the brand will be severely damaged, a lot of fans will skip Temple of Osiris (why should I buy the game if you're not even releasing the next one? Even if it's good, the way CD gave the middle finger to its fans is not something people will just ignore and it's a little game, casual fans have even more reasons to ignore it), from Facebook to Twitter Crystal Dynamics and S-E are flooded with angry messages, the fansites are up in arms, even Angry Joe, who is considered an XBox fan made a video against it (you may like or not like him, but the guy has 1,5 millions of subscribers).

People are not going to forget about it, at every news about the game you can bet the reactions will always be the same, enjoy the negative hype and the bad publicity S-E, it will last until they announce the PS/PC version, but then the excitement over the game will be dead.

So this year people en masse aren't going to buy Temple of Osiris because they potentially won't be able to play ROTR next year?

 

[In Service]

Rise of the Tomb Raider is coming to both Xbox One and Xbox 360

Not sure if there ever was any doubt but there you go.

Thanks for the link.

It says:

Microsoft's Phil Spencer confirmed the news to Eurogamer today during an interview at Cologne's Gamescom. We'll have more about the specifics - and the reasoning - behind the exclusive for you soon.

Now we wait....

 

[David___]

This is a very interesting post, I'd like to add though that Microsoft revolutionized online gaming on consoles, Xbox Live was a huge turning point for the medium and we all have to be thankful towards Microsoft for changing how we play multiplayer.

Revolutionized the medium by charging a paywall and having apps that are free literally everywhere else behind said paywall.

 

[-MB-]

We all should be thankful for the glory of pay to play? I'll fully admit that Live was a big step forward for a number of reasons, but it's not like it was some sort of angelic savior.

Oh, and DLC.... Fantastic!

Which Sony is both doing now too!

 

[oti]

We all should be thankful for the glory of pay to play? I'll fully admit that Live was a big step forward for a number of reasons, but it's not like it was some sort angelic savior.

Oh, and DLC.... Fantastic!

Not thankful to MS. They introduced paywalls.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. Sure, there's bad stuff but remember how online worked before Xbox Live? How every game had its own Log In and other unconveniert stuff like that? PSN was pretty bad when the PS3 arrived and Microsoft challenged Sony to get to the point they are now.

 

[In Service]

Not thankful to MS. They introduced paywalls.

I remember getting advertised based dial up internet for free in the UK. That didn't last long.

Free doesn't last if people are willing to pay. If people don't pay, free comes back with advertising. This is the law.

 

[Wiktor]

The sad thing is that for this kind of money they could have propably funded a new game from Square Enix. One that otherwise wouldn't be made, like Soul Reaver and the backslash wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

 

[Xenon]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
...

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

...

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

...

Praising the Studio that MS built kind of goes against your point, no? Because had MS not funneled so much of their evil money into Bungie, turning them into the studio they are today, there is a good chance that Destiny would never have been made.

Almost all of your points come from a similar narrow perspective. Except for the last paragraph. I agree that is pretty sad.