Night Hunter
Banned
The Youtube link is dead, any other sources on this?
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Sony is officially helping with funding and development with Shenmue 3
- Thread starter kamakazi5
- Start date
The Youtube link is dead, any other sources on this?
You can take your money out (or pledge a higher/lower tier) up until the Kickstarter ends. At that point, Kickstarter will take your money and you'll no longer be able to get it out any more.
You're wrong there. If the Kickstarter campaign had failed, Sony would have bailed, and we would hear no more of the whole project.
I agree here. The main mechanism keeping big publishers from using Kickstarter all the time is that it doesn't make any sense for them. They would have to offer enough incentives to bring in backers, and probably offer the game itself at a significantly reduced price. Moreover, they would have to give a percentage to Kickstarter, and what if the campaign fails? However, if a company like inXile were to get really big and still tried to Kickstart something niche like No One Lives Forever or Planet's Edge, I'd find it hard to think of any objections to that.
I don't know why he deleted the english subs version, but the french version is still there : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKb0vtQz8xo
IrishNinja
Member
for posterity:
i assure you it was not aimed at you; i gathered the sort've reducto ad absurdium you were going for there, but i did note other posts name dropping the franchise in a way devoid of such context. for what it's worth? i too side with # 2 - though im horribly biased as a starved shenmue fan who thinks this is quite a different case, truth is if fans are okay with crowdfunding larger projects which very much don't need it, i don't rightly have an opinion on the matter - we've quite clearly seen examples (gaming and non) of that sort've thing happen already, it just hasn't often been with a huge conglomerate but i figure we all know it's coming at some point, and if its not another very specific example - as you said, one lined up properly to meet goodwill - well, to quote my weird libertarian friends, the market will decide.
i assure you it was not aimed at you; i gathered the sort've reducto ad absurdium you were going for there, but i did note other posts name dropping the franchise in a way devoid of such context. for what it's worth? i too side with # 2 - though im horribly biased as a starved shenmue fan who thinks this is quite a different case, truth is if fans are okay with crowdfunding larger projects which very much don't need it, i don't rightly have an opinion on the matter - we've quite clearly seen examples (gaming and non) of that sort've thing happen already, it just hasn't often been with a huge conglomerate but i figure we all know it's coming at some point, and if its not another very specific example - as you said, one lined up properly to meet goodwill - well, to quote my weird libertarian friends, the market will decide.
Night Hunter
Banned
Well, if I only spoke french. But thanks, hopefully the subtitled version will go up again.
Chuck Norris
Banned
How could they know it would be funded? Sony are taking on an IP that historically were mega bombs in terms of return on investment, and never lit up the sales charts. There has been a healthy demand for the game from its fan base but that doesn't always translate to real world demand
Pai Pai Master
Banned
You really think it would cost $2m to make this game? Not to mention no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to contribute.
We backed the kickstarter regardless because we want to see the game get made. If we can contribute to even a small chunk of the cost of production and Sony foots the rest of the bill, we still get what we want and we know the project is in good hands.
I'll just post a little teaser of that interview that there might not be a dog companion but a goat or a companion bear are not outside the realm of possibilities...
Yu Suzuki was joking
Yu Suzuki tells in that interview that the relationship with Sega is excellent and they have complete access to the first two games in order to use what they find necessary for the third episode. There's a trust based relationship.
There's an Arcade room previewed as a Stretch Goal!!!!!
Ryan Payton of Camuflaj also tried to convince Yu Suzuki to make a Kickstarter campaign. In the end Yu Suzuki chose Cédric Biscay as a partner instead (this was 2 years ago).
The images that we see on the Kickstarter project presentation movie and on Sony E3 stage are really from the proper game. Unreal 4 is the engine used. It was a prototype running on the engine but it was gameplay, not a movie.
Cedric Biscay is a Japanese Culture enthusiast with professional and personal knowledge in Anime, video games and Japanese movies. He and his company have already done some work in distributing Japanese specific media/culture mainly in Europe. And their main responsibility will be promoting Shenmue 3 in Europe.
Cedric Biscay is a Shenmue enthusiast and his company is based in Monaco and has experience in distributing and promoting Japanese culture in the West. And though they are a small sized company they have an established network of connections in Japan and Europe.
Cedric Biscay specific role in Shenmue 3 production is to actively find additional budget sources and promotion of Shenmue 3 (in Europe at least) and they are also in charge of the development of the PC version.
There's a release date of end of 2017. There could be delays of course but at this moment they are pretty confident in that tentative release date.
On the 27th of February Cedric Biscay and Yu Suzuki will be at Salon Magic at Monaco and there will be more exclusive info about Shenmue 3 at that event.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
This is what I was thinking too. This discussion is running out of legit reasons to be sceptical of justifying Shenmue IIIs kickstarter. I can understand why some may be wary of the intentions behind this kickstarter and how this could be a floodgate for corporate copycats but this ShenmueIII phenomenon is very real and very justified. I don't think CoD or any other modern game could pull this off. I think a big chunk of the funding is coming from 30+ year old democratic gamers who understand the stakes and want this game to succeed.
Actually I more and more feel that a big chunk of funding is coming from Sony and those "additional sources of funding" that Cedric Biscay is in charge of finding. I feel that Ys Net and Yu Suzuki really want an ambitiously funded Shenmue 3. Kickstarter pledge final value will be used as leverage by Ys Net and Cedric Biscay in aggressively ensure those additional sources of funding.
IrishNinja
Member
100%. it's just port begging nonsense at this point, and even when the game's half off and coming to PC
ugh
no, it didn't
literally everything about this post is wrong
aside from the fact it was only part 2: when sega fell apart, teams were allowed to choose which platform to continue on. VF went to PS2, nagoshi/etc to GC, and MS had that deal for JSRF/Orta/Shenmue 2 and others. it was quite early in the gen and had absolutely zero to do with "xbox owners begging".
also? MS wasn't happy with the sales (despite those games being largely classics) and never sought such a deal with sega again...and here we are.
because we had nearly a decade and a half with no viable 3rd party funding, so it's about as moot as a point can get?
amen
MastaKilla
Member
I wonder if they'll try this method with other franchises. There are a lot of die hard Socom fans who would give an Arm and a leg if Sony did this with a new Socom 2 Remaster. Me included.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Cool. Whatever the exact figure was I am sure you have on the tip of your tongue at all times. Nice relevant contribution.
You say it's an abuse of Kickstarter, so let's say it was never on Kickstarter. And who would fund it, then? Because it's not like the game has been in limbo for 14 fucking years for a lack of funding or anything. Oh wait, that's EXACTLY what it's like. So, again, please clarify: after 14 years with no funding, and not using Kickstarter... how exactly would this game get funded?
I swear to God, the revisionist narrative that's been dreamed up is amazing.
IrishNinja
Member
you're welcome bruh
it's an old meme we see a lot around here is the thing; the 70 million figure has been debunked by suzuki himself as being the budget for the series proper. i recall him saying part 1 cost like 40-45, 2 was likely less given all the engine/etc work being done
ZombiePlatypus
Member
How is this abusing the system? No one is forcing anyone to fund anything. It's all hinged on the voice/wallet of the consumer.
This is a shitty way to do market research.
Sony? Because they're clearly mostly funding it anyway because Shenmue 1 and 2 were crazy expensive even back when game budgets weren't insane like they are now, and 2 million is nowhere near enough to fund a game?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
According to sega the cost was 70mil. Who cares. The exact amount is not important.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Why is it wrong to use kickstarter to gauge tangible interest from fans while also drumming up publicity for the game?
If anything it's great cause it gives fans a chance to directly and specifically encourage companies into making the products the fans want.
IrishNinja
Member
sony very clearly wasn't going to fund whatever part of this they're in for without this show of interest, so i'd say no
according to the creator, it was far far less (do you have a citation on the sega claim?). and it actually is, when shenmue's being wrongly pointed at as being, at best, somehow the Ishtar of gaming and at worst, the fall of the dreamcast (i love that one).
also relevant when discussing how much this might cost beyond KS figures, even though there's a lotta relevant factors here (UE4 vs their own engine work is huge, for one)
I wouldn't have a problem with it but it won't be done as unless tear every that involves the game was atleast 60 + kickstater fees they'd be losing money. Thus already succesful games won't do it as it's a net negative on their profit margin.
I'd be totally fine with mid-tear we're not sure if it'd make money projects being gauged this way.
Suikoden 6
Non-mobile Breath of Fire
Monster Rancher
etc
Hell even 1st party like Legend of the Dragoon and Dark Cloud I'd be all for. If it allows more niche games to be greenlighted I'm all for it.
Perhaps if they get some downtime they could knock up Outrun 3.
It is absolutely amazing to me that people are clinging to this "show of interest" thing as though one of the largest tech companies in the world begging for 2 million dollars is an acceptable way to do market research.
autoduelist
Member
The idea that console manufacturers shouldn't fund games is absurd.
Console Manufacturers fund games, and create exclusives, to differentiate themselves from their competition. Right there, without going any further, that's enough.
But going further -- the console market is incredibly important to gaming. Not everyone - in fact, a huge number of people, have no interest in PC gaming. I'm included in that, even though I used to be a PC gamer, have hundreds of games on Steam/gog/etc, and have a pc capable of running many recent games.
The gaming industry wants and needs exclusives, because exclusives help push console sales [or else they wouldn't exist]. People can complain and port beg all they want about it, but exclusives are part and parcel of the industry ... they're an important, integral part of the console economy/ecosystem. There is no gaming nirvana where there are no exclusives, because a lack of exclusives hurts console sales and could domino into a console failure and even industry collapse.
Sure, it's terrible when the [consolenotofyourchoice] scoops a game or dlc and the [consoleofyourchoice] doesn't get it. But that anger/disdain/whatever we feel is just a different form of the energy others feel that, when it reaches a certain point, moves them to buy the console.
There is no dream world where 'everyone gets to play'. It can't be, not when there are multiple architectures, multiple OSs, and multiple devices that cost money to develop for. Ultimately, some devices will get some games, others will get other games, and there will be some amount that go multi.
IrishNinja
Member
i don't really know the details of said deal here - are they financing, and if so, to what extent? or simply A&R?
the company that owns the IP is horribly risk-averse at this point, and the building the list effort that brought this about was pretty much all about building fan goodwill on projects that i don't expect will make much (this one, Yakuza 5 etc) - so the efforts taken to minimize risk,again especially for a project that'dve continued remaining dead in the water otherwise - yes, i find this practice acceptable here.
i'd also be okay if it was another major pub doing the same with say Aksys and VLR3, or Capcom & MML3 or some such (Silent Hills would be a stretch in my book, because of scope plus fuck Konami), and you know why? because if its that practice or continuing to not get those games, i vasly prefer the former.
excellent post, odd being on a hardcore gaming forum and this all needing to be said though
Well that remains up to YSnet, since they are the ones developing it - not Sony, who are partial funding and helping with marketing. I suspect they are not giving a physical PS4 version to prevent second hand sales. PC retail would still function to enable a digital product likely through Steam, so won't be able to be sold second hand either. Basically all so they can maximise revenue and not lose money since second hand sales wouldn't give them anything in return
Kssio_Aug
Member
They could use what they raise to make a Shenmue 1 and 2 HD version, and then fund Shenmue 3!
I mean, I'm glad to see that happening, I follow this Shenmue 3 discussions every single E3 for years now, and that made me very intrigued.
But I cannot feel that excited without the opportunity of playing the other games! :/
I mean, I'm glad to see that happening, I follow this Shenmue 3 discussions every single E3 for years now, and that made me very intrigued.
But I cannot feel that excited without the opportunity of playing the other games! :/
nightopian
Member
I don't know why people are complaining. You pay the kickstarter and you get the game when it comes out. It is Shenmue III guys, which before this week was never coming out. Hell, I would have been happy with a book etc. I don't see what the fuss is about honestly.
Canis lupus
Member
LMAO! Do you actually "suspect" what you just wrote?
VibratingDonkey
Member
Video was removed by the user. This company funds the PC version with how much?
Don't believe Sony is providing any monetary support. Yesterday I thought they were, but based on what Corsi and Drake (1 hour mark) said yesterday, apparently that's not the case. Or at least Sony's not saying they're doing that. Ys Net is also not saying that.
I would like to know the scope of what they're aiming for, the budget they'd need to achieve that, what the budget looks like beyond the Kickstarter funding. Currently I'm not sure what I should be expecting from this thing. The pitch says one thing, and the $ amount says another. I'll pledge regardless just because it's this game by these people, but I think they should be more transparent about this.
Elfforkusu
Member
!!!!
This is what I wanted to hear. Is this confirmed?
(apart from the names on the kickstarter, of course...)
In what sense? Doesn't meet the goal => no game. It met the goal => game.
More money => more money to develop game.
Additional income sources are irrelevant, except that it means Yu Suzuki + friends won't profit as much as they could from future sales because they're giving up some level of "equity". But if you're really that concerned about what % of the profits go to Yu, feel free to write him a personal check.
not at all
Because of?
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
So, now that the dust has settled, you're going to take this 71 page thread and take the whole argument back to where it started, ignoring, again, 71 pages of debate. I've also got to ask why people like Roto are saying Sony begged for 2 million dollars up on stage.
Even during the reveal, Adam Boyes said that this was Yu Suzuki's project just before he welcomed him up on stage. Do you people not get how this works? You have a game franchise that has been dormant for nearly 2 decades, with no publishers, not even the original publisher of the first two games wanting to touch the IP. A modern day Shenmue in UE4 would be expensive, and so you, as Sony, think okay, if Yu wants to do this, we'd love to invest in the project as well, but how can we be sure that years of people begging on forums will actually translate into us seeing a return of our investment?
You can never be sure of this. People on the internet love to talk the talk, but when it comes to it, thats all it is, talk. Look at how many Bayonetta fans were outraged over Bayonetta 2 and it didn't sell anywhere near what the original sold. Giving Yu a platform to say, here guys, I'm making Shenmue 3, lets show everyone that there really is demand and pls crowdfund this as proof. And that's what happened.
That 2m is an absolute tiny amount compared to how much the full game will cost to make. What is the issue here? I can see people finding it sketch that Sony waited until after the kickstarter to talk about their involvement, though it should have been obvious when it was introduced on stage and announced as a PS4 console exclusive. What I don't understand, is why people are so offended that Sony gave Yu a platform to maximise coverage of the announcement and are somehow twisting it into a 'multi million dollar conglomerate begging for handouts on stage'.
The same can be asked of you, Oersted? Why does it look misleading now?
IrishNinja
Member
how
Elfforkusu
Member
Essentially the argument boils down to, "these people would have made kickstarter anyway, but they're misleading fans to steal money from them!"
The obvious flaw with that argument in this case is that they have had 14 fucking years to make it without the help of a kickstarter. It would appear to be necessary.
I would maybe agree with the detractors if this was for maybe FF7. A game you know is in hot demand, and that would sell millions.
But this is a game that has been in HELL for over a decade that many of us thought would never fucking happen and we want to get mad because they mad a kickstarter and were promised outside funds as well...
DidntKnowJack
Member
Well hindsight is 20/20, but I disagree. Both Shenmue 1 and 2 were commercial failures. I don't think its unreasonable to want to gauge interest in a project like this that involves millions of dollars. Sony isn't MS or Nintendo. They don't have the money to throw away on failed projects.
It may not have been intended in its conception but KS being used as a "guarantee to investors" is still good for everyone. It's a near 100% certainty that people are willing to put money down for your product. Where else are you going to get this kind of information?
It would be reckless of Sony to fund such a niche title without this kind of assurance. People can start hashtag campaigns and online petitions but those are just words.
It would be reckless of Sony to fund such a niche title without this kind of assurance. People can start hashtag campaigns and online petitions but those are just words.
How is it misleading?
celsowmbr
Banned
Cool!
Zen_Arcade
Banned
1) We have no idea how much money Sony is putting into this game.
2) There could easily have been a stipulation that Sony, and any other investors could have pulled support had the Kickstarter not funded. The Kickstarter is essentially there to say "Hey, investors, there is in fact a market for this, and it could in fact make you money, here are about 40,000 people who are willing to put up money before hand just to show you so."
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