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[Labadal]

I thought it would take at least a year before anybody said these words or some version of it.

Jokes aside, I'm not thrilled with any of the news I'm hearing today. It seems to me that they don't know why people are unhappy with the company. Raising marketing budgets can sometimes help, but how will it help them if they lower development budgets. And don't make me start discussing all the other fiftyeleven things I'm not really getting excited about reading today.

 

[Teknoman]

That and SaGa Frontier 2 are the only good SaGa games. All the others are so, so bad.

Romancing SaGa PS2 was pretty good. I'm having my doubts with SF 1, but I started playing with Red, so maybe thats my mistake?

 

[Seth Balmore]

I weep for the Square of old. T'was nice knowing ya...

 

[Risk Breaker]

Good luck with that SE!

 

[luca1980]

They have 3 excellent games which they released over the past 2 years (Bravely Default, Type 0 and DQ7 remix)... none of which are currently in America. And that's the problem. The "regional game development" scares me the most, as someone who doesn't particularly care for Eidos and is wanting some more quality Japanese developed games to reach our shores.

Regional dev really is scary but this is a thing they already did: they lost momentum with type 0 and its probably thanks to Nintendo wile have bravely default. So the dropped the ball here IMHO.
Just hope to see a pal dq7 on 3ds

 

[entremet]

As an old school Square fan, this bums me out royally.

 

[Rolf NB]

Here's a fun idea:
*finish the games you have announced before relocating their entire staff to new projects
*take responsibility in fostering the markets that feed you
*choose your targets rationally

 

[Mandoric]

Jokes aside, I'm not thrilled with any of the news I'm hearing today. It seems to me that they don't know why people are unhappy with the company. Raising marketing budgets can sometimes help, but how will it help them if they lower development budgets. And don't make me start discussing all the other fiftyeleven things I'm not really getting excited about reading today.

GAF: "Don't work on games for seven years!"
S-E: "Our games will be cheaper to make in the future."
GAF: "They're cutting budgets! S-E is doomed!"

GAF: "Your games are full of prettified ladyboys that no red-blooded American man could ever identify with!"
S-E: "We will focus more on local tastes."
GAF: "Nothing's ever getting localized again!"

GAF: "Remake all the games, for popular platforms!"
S-E: "Our mobile development, which to date has primarily been back-catalogue ports, will be a major ongoing focus due to hardware adoption trends."
GAF: "Oh noes, the Android touched me in my no-no zone :|"

GAF: "Why doesn't everyone get excited about Square's new games, like they did in the '90s when Cloud's face was on Dorito bags and 12-packs of Mountain Dew?"
S-E: "We are increasing advertising budgets."
GAF: "Spend money on something useful instead!"

Not saying that they've found the silver bullet to profiting in AAA without a generation-definer, but goddamn sometimes you guys love or hate ideas based entirely on who proposes them.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Wow... Square fell off so hard.

 

[Lambda Pie]

i get the feeling that FF Versus 13/15/PS4 exclusive will be their last big budget game for a while.

 

[Teknoman]

Compared to their FF series entries during SNES and PS1, how much did games like Secret of Mana, Treasures of the Rudra, Einhander, Parasite Eve, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Vagrant Story cost them?


Also does Enix still have access to properties they published?

 

[Woffls]

I hope Square Enix's downfall doesn't screw over Eidos too badly. They actually seem to know what they're doing... mostly.

 

[Labadal]

GAF: "Don't work on games for seven years!"
S-E: "Our games will be cheaper to make in the future."
GAF: "They're cutting budgets! S-E is doomed!"

GAF: "Your games are full of prettified ladyboys that no red-blooded American man could ever identify with!"
S-E: "We will focus more on local tastes."
GAF: "Nothing's ever getting localized again!"

GAF: "Remake all the games, for popular platforms!"
S-E: "Our mobile development, which to date has primarily been back-catalogue ports, will be a major ongoing focus due to hardware adoption trends."
GAF: "Oh noes, the Android touched me in my no-no zone :|"

GAF: "Why doesn't everyone get excited about Square's new games, like they did in the '90s when Cloud's face was on Dorito bags and 12-packs of Mountain Dew?"
S-E: "We are increasing advertising budgets."
GAF: "Spend money on something useful instead!"

Not saying that they've found the silver bullet to profiting in AAA without a generation-definer, but goddamn sometimes you guys love or hate ideas based entirely on who proposes them.

I love or hate ideas based on what we've been getting for the last 7 years. What I've read today seems like they are going further down a path I didn't want them to take. I don't want them to spend 7 years making a game, but I also hope they can budget their games properly. Everything they have said makes me fear for their future.

 

[Soriku]

i get the feeling that FF Versus 13/15/PS4 exclusive will be their last big budget game for a while.

Maybe after KH3.

Though any mainline FF will cost a lot...it's pretty much inevitable unless they really scale down and focus on other things during development.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

Smartphones... RIP SQ, thanks for good games.
Marketing + mobile(freemium system) games = thinking how to sell more useless in-game currency and less how to make interesting game with outstanding plot.

 

[Snapshot King]

GAF: "Your games are full of prettified ladyboys that no red-blooded American man could ever identify with!"
S-E: "We will focus more on local tastes."
GAF: "Nothing's ever getting localized again!"


Not saying that they've found the silver bullet to profiting in AAA without a generation-definer, but goddamn sometimes you guys love or hate ideas based entirely on who proposes them.

We're already halfway there, though. Only reason Bravely Default is coming is because Nintys publishing it. The regional market shenanigans means they'll probably make a few more games we'd like, but never release them here.

 

[Totobeni]

Here's a fun idea:
*finish the games you have announced before relocating their entire staff to new projects
*take responsibility in fostering the markets that feed you
*choose your targets rationally

well they went very big on DS, PSP and 3DS. on paper they were doing that but in the end that was not good.

I think lack of strong and healthy console in Japan is really hurting them.

 

[Black Door]

GAF: "Don't work on games for seven years!"
S-E: "Our games will be cheaper to make in the future."
GAF: "They're cutting budgets! S-E is doomed!"

GAF: "Your games are full of prettified ladyboys that no red-blooded American man could ever identify with!"
S-E: "We will focus more on local tastes."
GAF: "Nothing's ever getting localized again!"

GAF: "Remake all the games, for popular platforms!"
S-E: "Our mobile development, which to date has primarily been back-catalogue ports, will be a major ongoing focus due to hardware adoption trends."
GAF: "Oh noes, the Android touched me in my no-no zone :|"

GAF: "Why doesn't everyone get excited about Square's new games, like they did in the '90s when Cloud's face was on Dorito bags and 12-packs of Mountain Dew?"
S-E: "We are increasing advertising budgets."
GAF: "Spend money on something useful instead!"

Not saying that they've found the silver bullet to profiting in AAA without a generation-definer, but goddamn sometimes you guys love or hate ideas based entirely on who proposes them.

This is why I don't use GAF when I want SE or mobile information. Far too much doom and gloom and armchair sales analysis when things are bad across the industry for random solutions to work

 

[Jinko]

Wada, please come back!

It's Wada that caused this mess :S

 

[Toki767]

Maybe they should just let other companies localize the games they don't want to localize. Like Type-0.

 

[Glass Rebel]

GAF: "Don't work on games for seven years!"
S-E: "Our games will be cheaper to make in the future."
GAF: "They're cutting budgets! S-E is doomed!"

Cutting development budgets is okay as it implies that they're taking a more reasonable approach towards development. The HD-business has completely warped publishers' expectations when it comes to this so it's refreshing to see some publishers taking a step back. Lower budgets allow the developers to be more creative because they don't have to sell millions of units to break even. Rising marketing costs in the same breath has clear implications though: We're basically getting the same stuff just with a smaller budget.

GAF: "Your games are full of prettified ladyboys that no red-blooded American man could ever identify with!"
S-E: "We will focus more on local tastes."
GAF: "Nothing's ever getting localized again!"

I am almost 100% sure these aren't the same people. Even then, there are ways to make JRPGs without "prettified ladyboys".

GAF: "Remake all the games, for popular platforms!"
S-E: "Our mobile development, which to date has primarily been back-catalogue ports, will be a major ongoing focus due to hardware adoption trends."
GAF: "Oh noes, the Android touched me in my no-no zone :|"

There's a slight difference between remakes such as Final Fantasy IV DS or The Complete Collection on PSP. One being that these two were actually of high quality and didn't look like utter trash that controls even worse like Final Fantasy V iOS.

GAF: "Why doesn't everyone get excited about Square's new games, like they did in the '90s when Cloud's face was on Dorito bags and 12-packs of Mountain Dew?"
S-E: "We are increasing advertising budgets."
GAF: "Spend money on something useful instead!"

Same as the first one.

Not saying that they've found the silver bullet to profiting in AAA without a generation-definer, but goddamn sometimes you guys love or hate ideas based entirely on who proposes them.

I would love to reply to your post in a more objective manner but I can't look past the straw-men so I just added my opinions in bold.

 

[Labadal]

It's Wada that caused this mess :S

 

[gundamkyoukai]

well they went very big on DS, PSP and 3DS. on paper they were doing that but in the end that was not good.

I think lack of strong and healthy console in Japan is really hurting them.

There lack of games on home consoles in Japan \ WW in a timely manner is what hurt them.
PS3 sales might not be great but that did stop Namco from bringing out 4 tales games and other devs that got there act together .
If they have to cut down on gfx no problem but SE can't see to be able to make good HD games on time or budget .

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Pretty sure this is the definition of insanity.

 

[Mandoric]

didn't look like utter trash that controls even worse like Final Fantasy V iOS

It's funny, because FFV iOS's "new look" comes from getting the woman who did FF1-6's character sprites (along with that adorable box/manual art) back to do HD versions.

 

[Glass Rebel]

It's funny, because FFV iOS's "new look" comes from getting the woman who did FF1-6's character sprites (along with that adorable box/manual art) back to do HD versions.

They could resurrect Rembrandt himself to draw them, if they're trash, they're trash.

 

[LeleSocho]

GAF: "Don't work on games for seven years!"
S-E: "Our games will be cheaper to make in the future."
GAF: "They're cutting budgets! S-E is doomed!"

GAF: "Your games are full of prettified ladyboys that no red-blooded American man could ever identify with!"
S-E: "We will focus more on local tastes."
GAF: "Nothing's ever getting localized again!"

GAF: "Remake all the games, for popular platforms!"
S-E: "Our mobile development, which to date has primarily been back-catalogue ports, will be a major ongoing focus due to hardware adoption trends."
GAF: "Oh noes, the Android touched me in my no-no zone :|"

GAF: "Why doesn't everyone get excited about Square's new games, like they did in the '90s when Cloud's face was on Dorito bags and 12-packs of Mountain Dew?"
S-E: "We are increasing advertising budgets."
GAF: "Spend money on something useful instead!"

Not saying that they've found the silver bullet to profiting in AAA without a generation-definer, but goddamn sometimes you guys love or hate ideas based entirely on who proposes them.

What a funny post... i know for sure that you know the flaws of your argument but i'll evidence them just for fun

There's close to none relation between costs of a game and developing time as in: a game in development hell that takes 5+ years to make will always cost a lot but you can always make a game with a lot of resources spent in "only" 2-3 years time, remove funds and you remove what some people (I don't) consider an ingredient for quality

That's an understandable fear, because they are essentially dividing the market in 2-3 pieces there are high chances that potentially great games will not arrive to this or that market because not considered suitable for the taste of those people

That's a very simple one, remakes are ok... if they are for devices that don't make them a pain to use (aka are ok for stuff that have buttons)

Another easy one, the example of Cloud's face being everywhere was a consequence of the game being interesting where so people wanted to see more of it which is the opposite of what they'll do now.
Cloud and the game seems to be liked by everyone -> let's put his face everywhere so even more people will know about this
No one gives a shit about the game and Lightning -> let's burn money on ads and put her everywhere so maybe people will start to like it/her.

 

[Mandoric]

They could resurrect Rembrandt himself to draw them, if they're trash, they're trash.

At this point, we're just establishing further that a large group considers "not exactly what I grew up on" trash. A pity that there's another large and equally-fervent team who hate straight ROM dumps.

Really, that's the unsolvable issue with S-E's position. They've gone through so many roles that there are no fresh starts left, only a variety of different ways to alienate longtime fans by being close-but-not-quite.

Another easy one, the example of Cloud's face being everywhere was a consequence of the game being interesting where so people wanted to see more of it which is the opposite of what they'll do now.
Cloud and the game seems to be liked by everyone -> let's put his face everywhere so even more people will know about this
No one gives a shit about the game and Lightning -> let's burn money on ads and put her everywhere so maybe people will start to like it/her.

FF7 ad blitz started WELL before the US version launched. And those were the days before everyone could hop online and get impressions from 20 or 30 importers in a single thread.
It was a large check from Square (or more probably, Sony) to PepsiCo. Full stop. Just like Master Chief is a recurring Dew-bottle star and Mario isn't, popularity be damned; it's a great way to market to teenaged males.

 

[vocab]

Pack it up. This company is done. They have no idea what their customers want, and targeted for smart phones as a platform doesn't sound like good times ahead.

 

[Game Guru]

Assuming that the Wii U will not get the sales that the Wii has gotten, and that handhelds are limited to being a Japan thing, is it any wonder that companies are getting out of those markets and into the smartphone and tablet markets? The console and handheld markets are obviously in a decline while the costs for making a game is ever increasing. That type of market is not a good one to be in unless you want your company to Bravely Default on its loans.

 

[Glass Rebel]

At this point, we're just establishing further that a large group considers "not exactly what I grew up on" trash. A pity that there's another large and equally-fervent team who hate straight ROM dumps.

Really, that's the unsolvable issue with S-E's position. They've gone through so many roles that there are no fresh starts left, only a variety of different ways to alienate longtime fans by being close-but-not-quite.

We are establishing that I (and many others) think that this

looks like shit and that this

looks great to me (and many others). Not whatever you're making up.

 

[Mandoric]

Okay, apparently there's a third group that really likes shading and effects last seen in '90s hentai. Mea culpa.

 

[zroid]

LOL

farewell DQ7

 

[nasos_333]

What they need to do is make more games like Bravely Default

So they can keep face, make a masterpiece and money at the same time

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

Mobile developing is cheap. It's using outdated technology and highly limited by hardware. So when there new them about "mobile kills console and PC gaming" popping, this is just laughable. It will never replace them, until PC and consoles will rebirth to the mobile device. SQ used big amount of outsources for big games (as Naughty Dog does for Uncharted). Mobile games don't need that amount of developers, thats why it cheap (both by developing cost and technologically).

 

[Snapshot King]

Okay, apparently there's a third group that really likes shading and effects last seen in '90s hentai. Mea culpa.

What the fuck are you talking about? No seriously, whats your point here?

 

[ctothej]

I wonder if Square execs even play video games. It's like they have no idea why Square was popular in the first place.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Okay, apparently there's a third group that really likes shading and effects last seen in '90s hentai. Mea culpa.

Yeah, we don't like being shat in the mouth.

 

[Cheebo]

Mobile developing is cheap. It's using outdated technology and highly limited by hardware. So when there new them about "mobile kills console and PC gaming" popping, this is just laughable. It will never replace them, until PC and consoles will rebirth to the mobile device. SQ used big amount of outsources for big games (as Naughty Dog does for Uncharted). Mobile games don't need that amount of developers, thats why it cheap (both by developing cost and technologically).

In what world is mobile still technically behind? The top end phones are at mid 00's pcs.

Well beyond 3DS.

 

[Sojiro]

Localize DQX first, and then I don't give a shit what you do SE...but with statements like this, the chances of that probably got even more unlikely fml.

 

[javac]

In what world is mobile still technically behind? The top end phones are at mid 00's pcs.

Well beyond 3DS.

My S4 has bloody 2gb of DDR3 and a 1.9ghz quad core processor and a 5inch 1080p screen. Bloody crazy.

Still prefer to play on my 3DS but mobile has come a long way.

 

[LeleSocho]

FF7 ad blitz started WELL before the US version launched. And those were the days before everyone could hop online and get impressions from 20 or 30 importers in a single thread.
It was a large check from Square (or more probably, Sony) to PepsiCo. Full stop. Just like Master Chief is a recurring Dew-bottle star and Mario isn't, popularity be damned; it's a great way to market to teenaged males.

There were game magazines at the time and everyone was already ultra hyped for a big name like FF for the first time in 3d even before any ad campaign, like i said the ads at the time were only to spread the frenziness that was already in the air, nowadays they would use ads to convince you that the product is good that's the thin but huge difference.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

In what world is mobile still technically behind? The top end phones are at mid 00's pcs

Tessellation not supported in OpenGLES 2.0. More advanced shaders can't be implemented on mobile platforms. They only get shaders, that PC and consoles has many years ago.

 

[Kobun Heat]

 

[elohel]

so they're basically saying they don't know what to do and that they're giving up

I bet they wish they hadn't seen that fortune teller lol

 

[Mandoric]

What the fuck are you talking about? No seriously, whats your point here?

There is room for debate about whether picture A looks good. (imo the composition is shit due to dead space to the right, the monster sprites and player sprites don't match because the upscaled monsters are more "realistic" while the players are stylized, and of course the US font is miserable.)

There's no room for debate about picture B. The composition is just as shit (look at where Rosa's standing), the portrait shading is straight out of cheap porn, the 3d lightning effect is way out of place (except maybe in cheap porn), the background has major perspective issues with the front of the crater not agreeing with the back of the crater not agreeing with the stone walls not agreeing with the sprites, the monsters have upscaling artifacts that clash with the players, the player sprite design is devoted to aping 16x24 proportions in places where it doesn't really make any sense (is Edge eight feet tall and squatting, or just wearing a cavalry officer's pants?), and iirc the English version uses that same terrible font.

So yeah, I was wrong. His problem with FFV iOS isn't that it's different, it's apparently that it's not bad enough.

 

[Glass Rebel]

There is room for debate about whether picture A looks good. (imo the composition is shit due to dead space to the right, the monster sprites and player sprites don't match because the upscaled monsters are more "realistic" while the players are stylized, and of course the US font is miserable.)

There's no room for debate about picture B. The composition is just as shit (look at where Rosa's standing), the portrait shading is straight out of cheap porn, the 3d lightning effect is way out of place (except maybe in cheap porn), the background has major perspective issues with the front of the crater not agreeing with the back of the crater not agreeing with the stone walls not agreeing with the sprites, the monsters have upscaling artifacts that clash with the players, the player sprite design is devoted to aping 16x24 proportions in places where it doesn't really make any sense (is Edge eight feet tall and squatting, or just wearing a cavalry officer's pants?), and iirc the English version uses that same terrible font.

So yeah, I was wrong. His problem with FFV iOS isn't that it's different, it's apparently that it's not bad enough.

You can't be serious :lol

 

[AstroNut325]

I'm still dumbfounded by this chart:

Seeing this only makes me think of this:

BTW... anyone know which movie that GIF is from?

 

[Deguello]

I'm still dumbfounded by this chart:


Seeing this only makes me think of this:

BTW... anyone know which movie that GIF is from?

Heavyweights?

 

[encephalon]

As far as the SaGa series goes, I'm playing Romancing SaGa 2 right now. I feel like it could be great if it wasn't seemingly impossible to be at a level where common enemies weren't massively overpowered and equipped to destroy a character in 1-2 hits at all times.

3 seems to be pretty popular in Japan.