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[Chev]

I have it on good authority that there are several members of the development team (In the UK studio at least) that do not think this game will ever be released, and aren't really bothered about it anyway. They're content with milking the mismanaged cash-cow until it's dry and then they'll move on. Can't say I blame them. At least someone is getting something good out of this game.

If that's true they've gotta be dead inside. Having worked under the perpetually-delayed style of dev management at my previous job, even if you just go with it and do it for the paycheck there's continual frustrations as management tries more and more alternative methods to the the project back on track that will just crush your soul.

After reading how amy hennig worked insane hours, I rather wait then crunch the team. My fun is not worth draining cig of their life.

I don't believe for a minute that a project this delayed is not in permanent crunch already.

 

[glaurung]

I'm really curious to see how far along Elite is (space legs, atmospheric planets) by the time this is out.

That is indeed very interesting to consider. Elite roadmap is a lot more realistic, if to say, conservative in its outlook. At the same time, their space sim foundation is absolutely solid.

Among other things, I am curious as to where EVE Online is by the time Star Citizen properly arrives to the scene.

If that's true they've gotta be dead inside. Having worked under the perpetually-delayed style of dev management at my previous job, even if you just go with it and do it for the paycheck there's continual frustrations as management tries more and more alternative methods to the the project back on track that will just crush your soul.

I smiled a bit. I know game developers who are entirely content on churning out assets and endless builds -- fully aware that what they are building will never manifest as a real product. There is a shorter effort-reward cycle in their heads than you would think.

 

[Lister]

It was pretty obvious from their last showing. What they showed was awesome, but you can tell theyre still working on tech. I think 2017 holiday is more likely.

 

[Chev]

I know game developers who are entirely content on churning out assets and endless builds -- fully aware that what they are building will never manifest as a real product. There is a shorter effort-reward cycle in their heads than you would think.

And as I said, to me that means they're dead inside.

 

[LoSnupo]

I'm just waiting for the "scam" posts. lol

 

[eggandI]

👀 ruh roh

 

[Pureauthor]

A Star Citizen product missing a release date?

I'm shocked. Shocked.

 

[Machina]

This thread is gonna go places

 

[The Jackdog]

lol, theres no way it makes 2017 either

 

[JambiBum]

This thread is gonna go places

Too bad the game won't.

 

[Machina]

Too bad the game won't.

Edgy is as edgy does

 

[Brinbe]

A few more million should do it. No problem.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I expect it no earlier than holidays 2017.

 

[Stiler]

Reading the comments:

Why do they seem get a free pass with this?

Because games this large tend to have at LEAST a five-year development cycle.

GTA and Elder scrolls for example, these big "open world" games tend to take at least five years to fully make ankd get out the door. On top of that this is for ESTABLISHED studios who already have a pipeline and developers who know how to make said games and have done so in the past.

Star Citizen is even bigger then those and yet people expected them to somehow not only develop the game within 2 years, but also build their studio from the GROUND UP with an engine that they had to basically re-write a bunch of new things for.

That's bloody impossible.

The game didn't start full development until feb 2013, so it's had roughly a little over 3 1/2 years in development in which they built multiple studios to work on the game plus had the scope of the game get bigger and bigger (IE planet exploration, fps combat, etc which were not part of the initial game).

Also I don't get why some people seem so impatient with this one game. I mean so many games people are like "Take your time, I'd rather have it released finished then rushed out and buggy." Yet so many people get mad that this game isn't out asap without even a full dev cycle to finish it.

As though somehow CR and cloud imperium games are going to just up and vanish overnight with all the money leaving everyone in tihe wind if they don't somehow magically finish the game faster then already established studios within a much shorter development cycle.

 

[Raticus79]

I expect it no earlier than holidays 2017.

Yeah, I was thinking early 2017 before the presentation, but that comment about things still being in graybox stage makes this sound more reasonable. (if QA have been through all the missions already as they said, was it just in graybox form? lol)

 

[Machina]

Because games this large tend to have at LEAST a five-year development cycle.

GTA and Elder scrolls for example, these big "open world" games tend to take at least five years to fully make ankd get out the door. On top of that this is for ESTABLISHED studios who already have a pipeline and developers who know how to make said games and have done so in the past.

Star Citizen is even bigger then those and yet people expected them to somehow not only develop the game within 2 years, but also build their studio from the GROUND UP with an engine that they had to basically re-write a bunch of new things for.

That's bloody impossible.

The game didn't start full development until feb 2013, so it's had roughly a little over 3 1/2 years in development in which they built multiple studios to work on the game plus had the scope of the game get bigger and bigger (IE planet exploration, fps combat, etc which were not part of the initial game).

Also I don't get why some people seem so impatient with this one game. I mean so many games people are like "Take your time, I'd rather have it released finished then rushed out and buggy." Yet so many people get mad that this game isn't out asap without even a full dev cycle to finish it.

As though somehow CR and cloud imperium games are going to just up and vanish overnight with all the money leaving everyone in tihe wind if they don't somehow magically finish the game faster then already established studios within a much shorter development cycle.

Tall poppy syndrome. The sheer amount of money involved has people very nervous that if the project and studio fall through, it'll turn into the biggest story in video game history. Yes that risk is there, but I dare anyone to point out to me what else CIG have to do to convince them the money is for making games, not hookers and crack.

 

[Kysen]

No worries just show off another batch of tech demos and continue to string backers along till the next delay.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Tall poppy syndrome. The sheer amount of money involved has people very nervous that if the project and studio fall through, it'll turn into the biggest story in video game history. Yes that risk is there, but I dare anyone to point out to me what else CIG have to do to convince them the money is for making games, not hookers and crack.

They can open their books and display exactly how funds are used. That would clarify a lot of concerns about both the viability of the project and the management.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Because games this large tend to have at LEAST a five-year development cycle.

GTA and Elder scrolls for example, these big "open world" games tend to take at least five years to fully make ankd get out the door. On top of that this is for ESTABLISHED studios who already have a pipeline and developers who know how to make said games and have done so in the past.

Elder Scrolls games take three years, Fallout 4 was the first one to take four.

 

[InsaneTiger]

It's going to be bundle with GTX 4080.

You mean the GTXX 4085 Titan Ultra X

 

[Machina]

Elder Scrolls games take three years, Fallout 4 was the first one to take four.

Pray tell what the crowdfunding numbers were in 2012

EDIT: Nice stealth edit

 

[Chev]

but I dare anyone to point out to me what else CIG have to do to convince them the money is for making games, not hookers and crack.

Submit their books to outside scrutiny, as their terms of service previously promised they would.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Why would people even want the SP this year? Genuine question. The FPS practice modes are out in the next major patch and the community really need some time to give input. Releasing the SP component this year would mean locking mechanics in prematurely.

 

[-tetsuo-]

2018 release date is realistic.

 

[tuxfool]

Elder Scrolls games take three years, Fallout 4 was the first one to take four.

Fallout 4 was in development since 2010.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-16-bethesdas-todd-howard-interview?page=3

 

[Machina]

They can open their books and display exactly how funds are used. That would clarify a lot of concerns about both the viability of the project and the management.

Submit their books to outside scrutiny, as their terms of service previously promised they would.

What is this, Enron? Should the guys developing Yooka Laylee open their books as well? How about Shenmue? Fuck me, lets tell Inafune to show us the receipts for MN9, I'm sure that would make for great reading.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Fallout 4 was in development since 2010.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-16-bethesdas-todd-howard-interview?page=3

That doesn't say that, it says design.

 

[Chev]

Why would people even want the SP this year? Genuine question. The FPS practice modes are out in the next major patch and the community really need some time to give input. Releasing the SP component this year would mean locking mechanics in prematurely.

Is that a trick question? They want the SP this year because, up until a day ago, that was when they were told they were gonna get it. Locking in the mechanics before the planned release wold not be premature.

What is this, Enron? Should the guys developing Yooka Laylee open their books as well? How about Shenmue? Fuck me, lets tell Inafune to show us the receipts for MN9, I'm sure that would make for great reading.

None of them promised they'd open their books in the first place, unlike the SC devs. They reap what they sow. Not to mention their cumulated funs amount to 10% of what SC currently claims to have, so the level of the problem is completely different. Not to mention in MN9's case the current problem is different: the game came out and people hate it, while for SC the problem is only a rather barebones alpha is out. Also: you asked what else they can do. Well, they can do that. And apparently it's not like it's not like they can do other things that'd satisfy people like release SQ42 gameplay.

 

[tuxfool]

That doesn't say that, it says design.

n August 2010, Todd Howard revealed in an interview with Eurogamer that Bethesda was working on two projects; one had been in development for two years (beginning after Fallout 3 was released), and the other was still in pre-production.[6] It is now known that the title farther along in development was The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Fallout 4 is now known to be the second title.

On January 9, 2013, the voice actor behind Three Dog (Erik Todd Dellums) was given permission by Bethesda to hint towards his appearance soon. On his Twitter account, he stated, "To all my #Fallout3 and #ThreeDog fans: There may be more of the Dog coming! Fingers crossed!"[7] However, in July of the same year, Dellums tweeted that the game he is working on is not being produced by Bethesda Softworks, therefore it was not the anticipated new Fallout title.[8]

On April 15, 2013, Bethesda Game Studios announced on Bethblog that they had completed all new content for Skyrim and were moving the studio's attention to an as of yet unknown title that had previously been in pre-production since 2010. Although Bethesda Softworks did announce The Evil Within during the same week, this is being developed by another studio and will have no direct impact on whatever project Bethesda Game Studios is currently working on.

Pre-production.

What you suggest is that 4+1 years is all full production on SC. Let me remind you that they started 2013 with less than a dozen people.

 

[Memorabilia]

I wonder how many in-game purchases this game will have. If people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on space ships before it's out, they will likely be willing to spend after the game is out!

With all these delays, they will need to make all the money. Even after the release if it ever happens.

This is just insane. As a huge WC / Privateer / Chris Roberts fan I originally wanted this game so bad it bordered on need. But this drawn out development and the costs involved to participate in the universe seem fucking nuts. This kinda shit makes me feel completely out out of touch with the direction the game biz has gone, almost to the same degree as all the crazy mobile game microtransactions out there. I just want to know when - if ever - I'll just be able to buy the complete fucking game for $60 and call it a day settling into my home-made 3 screen cockpit. 2 yrs? 5? This shit is ridiculous.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Is that a trick question? They want the SP this year because, up until a day ago, that was when they were told they were gonna get it. Locking in the mechanics before the planned release wold not be premature.

How is that possibly a trick question? I mean, we don't have much more than guns functional in the game right now for FPS. If the extras like shields etc were fully test ready by now we'd be able to test them. The build with them in isn't even out to the public yet. I don't know how much more premature that could possibly be. I mean sure if you wanna ship for release date to meet a deadline with broken and shallow mechanics, yeah that's how we get NMS.

Not trying to bring up any this is a scam or never gonna work sentiment . But realistically when do pp expect this game to be out in full (sp plus online persistent mp etc etc) ? From what I've seen of their scope and progress seems 2018 but I've only given this a cursory look . Seems pretty impressive what they're trying and I see different parts working so is the betting money on 17 ?18?19?

From what we've seen I'd guess late 2017 for a S42 release. We'll likely have a nicely fleshed out PU by then too, though I'd guess their roadmap is slightly optimistic on time frames. The Frankfurt studio has had absolutely amazing turnaround though so maybe I'm wrong there. I don't expect 3.0 to be out until January instead of this year simply because 2.6 is yet to land. I'd imagine 2018 is when the PU will enter a Beta state. Development will continue as there will be more systems and ships to add as time goes on. I'd say that's a pretty realistic expectation with a bit of give too.

 

[Ishan]

Not trying to bring up any this is a scam or never gonna work sentiment . But realistically when do pp expect this game to be out in full (sp plus online persistent mp etc etc) ? From what I've seen of their scope and progress seems 2018 but I've only given this a cursory look . Seems pretty impressive what they're trying and I see different parts working so is the betting money on 17 ?18?19?

 

[Pureauthor]

Because games this large tend to have at LEAST a five-year development cycle.

GTA and Elder scrolls for example, these big "open world" games tend to take at least five years to fully make ankd get out the door. On top of that this is for ESTABLISHED studios who already have a pipeline and developers who know how to make said games and have done so in the past.

Star Citizen is even bigger then those and yet people expected them to somehow not only develop the game within 2 years, but also build their studio from the GROUND UP with an engine that they had to basically re-write a bunch of new things for.

That's bloody impossible.

The game didn't start full development until feb 2013, so it's had roughly a little over 3 1/2 years in development in which they built multiple studios to work on the game plus had the scope of the game get bigger and bigger (IE planet exploration, fps combat, etc which were not part of the initial game).

Also I don't get why some people seem so impatient with this one game. I mean so many games people are like "Take your time, I'd rather have it released finished then rushed out and buggy." Yet so many people get mad that this game isn't out asap without even a full dev cycle to finish it.

As though somehow CR and cloud imperium games are going to just up and vanish overnight with all the money leaving everyone in tihe wind if they don't somehow magically finish the game faster then already established studios within a much shorter development cycle.

So, question.

If it's so incredibly obvious to an outsider that you can't make a game of this scope within X number of years,

Why doesn't CIG (the ones actually making the game) appear to realize it and keep giving dates that it's never going to hit?

 

[RK9039]

Meh, let it cook.

 

[Zombie James]

How many delays have there been?

 

[RK9039]

How many delays have there been?

Three I think?

 

[THEaaron]

So, question.

If it's so incredibly obvious to an outsider that you can't make a game of this scope within X number of years,

Why doesn't CIG (the ones actually making the game) appear to realize it and keep giving dates that it's never going to hit?

Because that was their planning. You have budget, you make a plan with that budget for a given deadline and along the way 1000000000 things happen that will likely rip your planning in pieces and you have to delay it or cut things out.

 

[Devilgunman]

2018 release date is realistic.

I doubt this game will ever be officially released, but I don't see that as a problem either. People are so used to incomplete games in form of Early Access in this day and age. Star Citizen can remain in development forever as long as CIG keeps releasing bits and pieces to keep their fans intact.

 

[Polk]

Because games this large tend to have at LEAST a five-year development cycle.

GTA and Elder scrolls for example, these big "open world" games tend to take at least five years to fully make ankd get out the door. On top of that this is for ESTABLISHED studios who already have a pipeline and developers who know how to make said games and have done so in the past.

But Squadron 42 isn't big open world, is it? (I have to say I rarely read weekly newsletters they send me). You can say all you want, but it looks like they bite off more than they can chew. They should focus on one aspect and expand from there.

 

[Chev]

How is that possibly a trick question? I mean, we don't have much more than guns functional in the game right now for FPS. If the extras like shields etc were fully test ready by now we'd be able to test them. The build with them in isn't even out to the public yet. I don't know how much more premature that could possibly be. I mean sure if you wanna ship for release date to meet a deadline with broken and shallow mechanics, yeah that's how we get NMS.

A good chunk of the points argued in favor of SQ42 over the last year has been that SQ42 was supposed to be a lot more advanced than what's available in the PU and that they were keeping it under wraps to make a big splash. Looks like that's just hot air?

And having personally spent 75 hours on NMS, I feel it's a lot better than people say, so an argument based on it is not gonna sound very convincing to me. People built tons of unrealistic expectations on it, and that was ultimately the problem. The longer they delay SC, the bigger the same problem is gonna be.

 

[~Cross~]

Fallout 4 was in development since 2010.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-16-bethesdas-todd-howard-interview?page=3

I love this double think. Chris says he started production of SC in 2011 and people quickly jump to say that its only a skeleton crew and all that.

Every fallout article claims near full production started when they were finally done with Skyrim in 2012. Actual full production didn't start till they were done with all the dlcs in early 2013.

 

[dr_rus]

Surely they mean it will "miss it's 2014 launch date"?

It seems like this will now launch alongside ME4 (which seems to have entered full production around the same time as SC/SQ42).

ME5 you mean.

 

[~Cross~]

Three I think?

Each a year long.

Sometime in 2014
Sometime in 2015
Sometime in 2016

 

[Stiler]

Elder Scrolls games take three years, Fallout 4 was the first one to take four.

Morrowind 2002
Oblivion 2006

Same with Fallout 4 from Skyrim.

Also you have to keep in mind, Bethesda is an established studio now , they didn't have to hire people from the ground up, build their studio, or work on a new engine for most of these games (even though most people wish they would cause the creation engine sucks).

It's like expecting a new studio with a lot of new people working on a game that hasn't really been done in this scope to somehow do ALL of this quicker then a studio who's been making similar games for years and years and have pipelines and know how to make them already.

 

[~Cross~]

Morrowind 2002
Oblivion 2006

Same with Fallout 4 from Skyrim.

Also you have to keep in mind, Bethesda is an established studio now , they didn't have to hire people from the ground up, build their studio, or work on a new engine for most of these games (even though most people wish they would cause the creation engine sucks).

It's like expecting a new studio with a lot of new people working on a game that hasn't really been done in this scope to somehow do ALL of this quicker then a studio who's been making similar games for years and years and have pipelines and know how to make them already.

The core group that makes the elderscroll/fallout titles is also a THIRD of the size of CIG right now. When was it that CIG had 100 people in their payroll? They probably were employing 100 contractors in 2014 alone.

 

[Sloane]

Eh, I'd be perfectly happy to play this in 2018.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

A good chunk of the points argued in favor of SQ42 over the last year has been that SQ42 was supposed to be a lot more advanced than what's available in the PU and that they were keeping it under wraps to make a big splash. Looks like that's just hot air?

And having personally spent 75 hours on NMS, I feel it's a lot better than people say, so an argument based on it is not gonna sound very convincing to me. People built tons of unrealistic expectations on it, and that was ultimately the problem. The longer they delay SC, the bigger the same problem is gonna be.

Then I don't think we can get anywhere with this discussion. I'm of the mindset that I'd rather the mechanics be worked on to a point where they work well rather than just dump them on us in whatever form they managed to achieve so far. I felt that NMS was nothing more than a collection of poorly thought out ideas and unfinished mechanics so clearly we have extremely different views. I'd imagine we're at an 'agree to disagree scenario'

You're right that they said some mechanics are much more advanced in the S42 build but I don't know if they specified what as I don't follow the project too closely. I'd not have expected those to be aspects like weaponry for the FPS since I figured they would be worked on more heavily in the 2.6 build. I guess my expectations of what would be more progressed in the S42 build would be stuff like AI, quest design etc.

 

[RK9039]

Each a year long.

Sometime in 2014
Sometime in 2015
Sometime in 2016

Yeah that's what I thought.

Anyway,

FFXV took 10 years
TLG took 9 years

Singleplayer games.

 

[M3d10n]

Because games this large tend to have at LEAST a five-year development cycle.

GTA and Elder scrolls for example, these big "open world" games tend to take at least five years to fully make ankd get out the door. On top of that this is for ESTABLISHED studios who already have a pipeline and developers who know how to make said games and have done so in the past.

Star Citizen is even bigger then those and yet people expected them to somehow not only develop the game within 2 years, but also build their studio from the GROUND UP with an engine that they had to basically re-write a bunch of new things for.

That's bloody impossible.

The game didn't start full development until feb 2013, so it's had roughly a little over 3 1/2 years in development in which they built multiple studios to work on the game plus had the scope of the game get bigger and bigger (IE planet exploration, fps combat, etc which were not part of the initial game).

Also I don't get why some people seem so impatient with this one game. I mean so many games people are like "Take your time, I'd rather have it released finished then rushed out and buggy." Yet so many people get mad that this game isn't out asap without even a full dev cycle to finish it.

As though somehow CR and cloud imperium games are going to just up and vanish overnight with all the money leaving everyone in tihe wind if they don't somehow magically finish the game faster then already established studios within a much shorter development cycle.

And this is why, in my humble opinion born out from 13 years in the games industry, it's pretty much impossible for this game to deliver on its promises. I can only see two realistic outcomes:

1) At some point someone sane takes the reins, performs massive scope reductions to match the actual capabilities of the remaining dev team and releases a game that disappoints a lot of people.

2) The dev team keeps on churning assets, systems and tech demos based on their gigantic backlog and they run out of money before getting to the part where they have to make an actual deliverable game, which is not the same thing at all.

Just because they said they wanted to make a game far more ambitious than anything the likes of Ubisoft and Rockstar ever made and managed to raise 160+ millions of dollars for it doesn't magically make them capable of actually doing it. Specially when they had to "build their studio from the ground".

 

[cheesekao]

Yeah that's what I thought.

Anyway,

FFXV took 10 years
TLG took 9 years

Singleplayer games.

No idea about FFXV but why do people keep pushing the narrative that TLG has been in active development for 9 years?