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Summer 2013 Anime Thread Zero: grown men playing with dolls/who but WB Masochism

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D

Defuser

Member
Lttp but Shaft is animating Nisekoi?! wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttttttttttttttttttt

So we be seeing Chitoge/Onedera/Tsugumi/Marika head tilt?
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
CorvoSol said:
Revolutionary Girl Utena 39 and Series Thoughts

Well as of the ending I guess this show does have a fair chance of rivaling Evangelion in the mindfuck department and also the realm of
inconclusive endings.
Beyond that, not sure what to say about this episode. It was nice to see
Utena's ideal Prince torn down before her eyes
but, and I say this in full knowledge of the fact that people will groan at me when I do,
by the end of the show, I had come to care so little for Utena and Anthy that really, it had less effect on me. Undoubtedly for those who did care, this finale must have held a huge emotional impact, but for me, not as much. It was nice to see Anthy do things for herself and get something in the way of a vague explanation for why she's been so blank the entire show, however.

Moving on to my general thoughts of the series:

If I had to describe Revolutionary Girl Utena with one word, it would be frustrating. This is not a "user-friendly" show. Before launching into that, I'd say that the show does accomplish the goal of evoking a play, its atmosphere successfully completing this through clever staging of the camera, employment of visual cues, and one or two movements with multiple meanings.

I tend to like to get my "negative" thoughts out of the way first, so I'll say what I did not like about Utena before moving on to the things which I most emphatically did. I do this mostly so people's last taste of what I said is positive, and people don't get the impression I only hate something.

Returning, then, to what I said before, this show can be infuriatingly frustrating at times. Visually, there are too many symbols and in general too many things going on on a screen at a given time. It's one thing to have the candles sway this way and that and indicate who is attracted to whom at a given point in the episode. It's another to have the swirling rose symbol pop up every fucking ten seconds and pretend like it matters. I am very certain there is a perfectly good explanation for why this icon was everywhere, but to any first time viewer it is just an annoying, confusing thing that grates as the series continues and its meaning is never made any plainer than "the colored ones indicate the characters who correspond to the color."

As I said previously, I feel there are two parts to any episode of this show: There's the plot, about the girl who's been dragged into this fight and the prince and the end of the world and all. And then there is a load of unnecessary conversations in increasingly erratic places for the sake of symbolism.

And it is at this juncture that I must say: there is such a thing as too much symbolism, and RGU suffers because of it. It's highly distracting, and leaves the feeling that rather than being focused and thematic, the work is instead simply scrambling to stuff as many symbols into an episode as it can. A good example of the complaint I am making would be the Student Council scenes. Each and every time they are there, the Student Council is surrounded by a cacophony of symbols and seemingly inane things which are apparently fraught with some significance. The baseball game going on around them, the riding a bike in place, the train that passes by without ever being seen, the balloons flying around etc. It's too many symbols with meanings too obscure to the plot to matter, yet there they are, jumping and swirling and floating and dancing and distracting the viewer from what is actually going on. On occasion such distraction may be necessary, but I cannot at this moment accept that that much is relevant, meet, or vital to this show. Its positively maddening at times, and feels more like a Junior High English Teacher's Wet Dream than a play with important symbols for the careful viewer. Your plot should not be the Waldo in a sea of symbolic sunbathers.

Moving along to the plot, for the most part I have no complaint, bar that it gets weighed down by the absurd overuse of symbolism. It makes sense, and the show does its fair part to reveal the crucial information as it goes. It takes breather episodes centered on Nanami when it needs to, and yes, the clip episodes are somewhat better than other episodes. I'd like to point out, though, that I consider myself justified in
not trusting anything to be real, though, since the show does this once with the Black Rose arc and then again that business about the floating castle in last two episodes.
In all, though, the plot is more or less okay. I assume that my lingering questions would be answered by the movies, and so I don't lay those at its feet.

One final negative point would be the use of stock footage. The show does its fair share of trying to make that cooler, but in all, I cannot say I was wholly appreciative of just how much of the show was comprised of stock footage. Supposing this show was made on some sort of budget, though, I can understand it, and it wasn't as horrible as the words "stock footage" lead one to expect.

That Said, I'd like to talk about what I did enjoy from this show.

The Cast In spite of complaints I have heretofore given, I did come to like the cast quite a bit. Some were loveable the whole way through, like Wakaba and Miki, and others took a long time to be ones I truly enjoyed, like Touga and Saionji. The badminton scene softened me up a fair amount, too. While I feel that
Anthy
and Jury are the weak links in the cast, and
I think Utena's character lost her appeal to me when she slept with Akio, but not exactly because she slept with him
, other characters really shone to me. Particularly Nanami, who, in spite of being a cold hearted bitch and
kitten murderer
, was also a very sympathetic character who did the "demon trying to escape from a young person's body" infinitely better than Lelouch of Geass fame ever could. Nanami was really the star of the show in many ways, especially after
Touga broke her.
If nothing else, the cast is extremely memorable, and for positive reasons.

The Music in this show is something else. Especially the instrumental parts. A good score is always one of the best things you can do for a product, and Utena's shines. Where the visuals are burdened with too damn many symbols, Utena's score is spot on when it comes to being focused thematically. The songs were enjoyable, unforgettable, and a large part of what I will look back on fondly with regards to this show. They are without a doubt the first thing I would recommend about it, too.

The Duels each duel is a simple, structured process. They're well paced, and manage to maintain tension throughout the project, in spite of the fact that they all almost always end in a predictable way. I found myself asking, the entire show, whether or not Utena would win her duels. Definitely the best parts of many an episode, and usually a much better chance to get to know a character than the five million symbolic monkeys traipsing around the rest of the episode. The best duel in the entire show, though, was most certainly
Utena versus Wakaba.
It's a pity it did not have more lasting consequences.


Ultimately, I enjoyed the show. Not as much as many here, I suppose, but it was a worthwhile experience and I do not regret watching it. I would call the Evangelion comparisons fair on all accounts and discount the claim that it explains more than Eva does about the wackiness that goes on. But then again, I've seen Eva more times and spent more time reading and thinking about it than this, so I'm not a fair judge on that.

Condensed version of this post: I still have no fucking idea what Mickey's Watch was about.
Click to expand...
First, the ending was not inconclusive. You say that the duels followed a simple, structured process but you missed the most obvious cue from them.
The bells for the final duel don't ring until Anthy walks out on Akio. Utena won. Even if Anthy is the only person in the entire world to understand this, Utena won.

Second, Anthy
was there the entire series. Her being lifeless, blank, and without will was mere misdirection. It's what the other characters in the show wanted you to think, but it wasn't what actually happened the entire series. She didn't suddenly show up at the end, she simply became unmistakable. Now, by stroke of chance you mentioned earlier that Anthy didn't really exist, but that's only true as much as the physical Anthy was inside the coffin.

Ultimately this ties into the central messaging on fairytale archetypes and the role of men and women in general. Patriarchy would have you think that all women are without wills of their own and better off in their position, but this just forces them into a passive-aggressive existence where they push and pull where they can.

Third, you're a pretty judgemental person.
Akio actively seduces Utena and you hate Utena for it?

Lastly, it is fair to say that Utena isn't an entirely user-friendly show, but it's debatable whether this actually matters to a first-time viewer. Maybe it's because having such things constantly pointed out was overwhelming, as usually such things simply get glossed over.
 
T

Tenumi

Banned
I never finished Date a Live, even though I didn't think it was too bad. Waiting for the Blu-rays, all honesty.

And so many Kamina shades now....
 
L

Lavalamp1138

Member
Tenumi said:
And so many Kamina shades now....
Click to expand...
I just woke up.

gsn7D0v.gif
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
Defuser said:
Date a Live ep 12
Welp, it's been like nearly a month but I finally finished it.

Kotori >= Tohka/Kurumi > Yoshinon >= reine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Origami
Click to expand...

1359757974132.gif


No more words required.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
Following Sentai on twitter and it seems we are getting Girls Und Panzer announcement this weekend. They brought in a real tank for AX.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
Seraphis Cain said:
Shiroyasha is secret Mondaiji best girl.
Click to expand...
Yep
cajunator said:
If Kurousagi didnt exist I would agree. But its close!
Click to expand...
regardless of if you place kuro usagi or shiro yasha first , as long as both are in the first 2 places , i have no real complains.

SDBurton said:
Placing Origami at the bottom is already painful to see, but placing Tohka so high? Terrible! ;_;
Click to expand...
We're not going to agree on this one.
darkside31337 said:
Uh what?

Origami is the worst girl. Tohka is the best girl.

Tohka > Kotori > Mana > Yoshinon > Reine > Kurumi > Origami
Click to expand...
As long as origami is in bottom place , i have no complains.
But your kurumi is quite low , you don't love psychotics girls ?

Hellsing321 said:
Oh lord DTL's title for the Free! OT #Dead
Click to expand...

There is a FREE #OT ?
 
S

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
darkside31337 said:
Uh what?

Origami is the worst girl. Tohka is the best girl.

Tohka > Kotori > Mana > Yoshinon > Reine > Kurumi > Origami
Click to expand...

Needy/Clingy girls who need your attention 24/7 are the worst. Sorry.

Your list is somewhat redeemable as you have Kotori as 2nd.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
R_thanatos said:
Yep

regardless of if you place kuro usagi or shiro yasha first , as long as both are in the first 2 places , i have no real complains.


We're not going to agree on this one.

As long as origami is in bottom place , i have no complains.
But your kurumi is quite low , you don't love psychotics girls ?



There is a FREE #OT ?
Click to expand...

Agreed. in Mondaiji, theres Kurousagi, Shiroyasha, and everyone else.

Also I love the smell of waifu wars in the morning!
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
SDBurton said:
Needy/Clingy girls who need your attention 24/7 are the worst. Sorry.

Your list is somewhat redeemable as you have Kotori as 2nd.
Click to expand...

Tohka is a pure girl that is genuily excited by the world she has to explore.
Fruthermore, she isn't jealous and understand that the MC has work to do in order to save other spirits ... at times she know how to take a distance from things. And doesn't hesitate to give a hand/help when needed.

I wouldn't see her as a clingy character , if anything she only act that way when the poor origami is near as self defense mecanism
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
SDBurton said:
Needy/Clingy girls who need your attention 24/7 are the worst. Sorry.

Your list is somewhat redeemable as you have Kotori as 2nd.
Click to expand...

And yet Origami is even worse at this than Tohka is.

She will literally kill you (or try to anyway since shes a fucking failure and cant do shit) for merely having a conversation with "her man".
 
C

cajunator

Banned
Hitokage said:
He finally gets a show without those awful females running around to ruin it for him.
Click to expand...

Well, not QUITE but I guess close enough.

R_thanatos said:
Tohka is a pure girl that is genuily excited by the world she has to explore.
Fruthermore, she isn't jealous and understand that the MC has work to do in order to save other spirits ... at times she know how to take a distance from things. And doesn't hesitate to give a hand/help when needed.

I wouldn't see her as a clingy character , if anything she only act that way when the poor origami is near as self defense mecanism
Click to expand...

Tohka is a happy squee girl. Shes playful and adorable. Love her so much.
 
S

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
darkside31337 said:
And yet Origami is even worse at this than Tohka is.

She will literally kill you (or try to anyway since shes a fucking failure and cant do shit) for merely having a conversation with "her man".
Click to expand...

Origami doesn't have the annoying whiny voice that Tohka has. "Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiido!" Ugh.

I love her emotionless voice and the lengths she'll go to take what's hers. Respect.

And lol at you blaming her for failing to kill Shido when he had the healing powers of a spirit, as if that was her fault. Goddamn.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
jbug617 said:
Here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=67931576#post67931576
Click to expand...
Lol dtl

DAT subtitle

NIcely played .

SDBurton said:
Origami doesn't have the annoying whiny voice that Tohka has. "Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiido!" Ugh.

I love her emotionless voice and the lengths she'll go to take what's hers. Respect.

And lol at you blaming her for failing to kill Shido when he had the healing powers of a spirit, as if that was her fault. Goddamn.
Click to expand...

By her reckless actions she
-
would have killed shido , if he hadn't the healing powers resulting in the death of shido , tohka and herself ..that was totally unnecessary
-
couldn't do a thing toward kurumi ( tohka had her powers sealed ) but origami confronted her Twice and that was 2 defeats. In contrast , even if some characters were defeated by kurumi , they at least put up a fight before that point.
-
used a very dangerous weapon in a public area , not thinking once about the damages she would have caused or the harm done to other humans

it's not hard to think she is a failure, she hasn't achieved anything worthy in the 12 episodes of the anime, except making fun of tohka
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Utena questions before I leave for camping and forget, if the movie explains, just say that:

What was the power to revolutionize the world?
What did Akio want with this power?
What role did Nemuro really play in all of this?
Was there a castle?
What was the point of the dueling game?
 
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