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[KingSnake]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems playing music files aren't as big of a deal as streaming/playing video.

Playing MP3 files is only a subset of the media capabilities. Still annoying, but at least there are still alternatives on the same device. When there are no apps whatsoever there are no alternatives.

And anyhow, Switch can't play MP3 either, so the comparison is moot.

 

[TannerDemoz]

I'll be gutted if we don't have BBC iPlayer

 

[jts]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems playing music files aren't as big of a deal as streaming/playing video.

I agree, but just like mp3/digital music became so ubiquitous that "mp3 support” isn’t worth a bullet point anymore, same is slowly but surely happening with video/Netflix support. Right now I have 3 devices connected to my TV that play Netflix. When I eventually replace my old TV it will support Netflix natively. On the go, my phone has a 5.5” display, just 0.7” short of the Switch's, but it’s 1080p instead of Switch’s 720p. Or if I have my laptop on me, 13” and 1080p.

Of course, my personal example doesn’t apply to everyone but still I think that’s the way things are going.

 

[Steve.1981]

The expectations for $300 devices (without any game, anything to do unless you buy a game) have risen since the days of GCN and GBA...

Yes I've already agreed that consumer expectations could be a problem. But again, how have Nintendo advertised the Switch?

...they are trying to make people think of it as a console you can take around with you...

You said it yourself.

Look again at the reveal trailer. It starts with someone playing a game on the Switch on their TV, then they get up and remove it from the dock and suddenly it's a handheld and they're still playing the same game. Then we see different people out and about doing various things, and we see that they're all able to play on the Switch in whatever way suits them.

So they seem to want people to know this is a new device for gaming that is designed to be as portable as you need it to be, or can function perfectly as your home console. Whatever suits your needs.

I understand that adding all these extra apps for currently popular streaming services, etc, can increase the perceived value of the product for some people. I do understand that. I'm just saying maybe Nintendo aren't focusing on those people. Maybe they're aiming this thing at anyone who's primarily interested in gaming.

And again, they could just add this stuff in later.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes I've already agreed that consumer expectations could be a problem. But again, how have Nintendo advertised the Switch?



You said it yourself.

Look again at the reveal trailer. It starts with someone playing a game on the Switch on their TV, then they get up and remove it from the dock and suddenly it's a handheld and they're still playing the same game. Then we see different people out and about doing various things, and we see that they're all able to play on the Switch in whatever way suits them.

So they seem to want people to know this is a new device for gaming that is designed to be as portable as you need it to be, or can function perfectly as your home console. Whatever suits your needs.

I understand that adding all these extra apps for currently popular streaming services, etc, can increase the perceived value of the product for some people. I do understand that. I'm just saying maybe Nintendo aren't focusing on those people. Maybe they're aiming this thing at anyone who's primarily interested in gaming.

And again, they could just add this stuff in later.

The problem with the it is a console front and center that also happens to be portable sometimes is that you get the comparison against the other home consoles against which you need to start speaking a lot louder of its portability to present a positive angle to the wide consumer base.

PS4 is also primarily interested at someone who games yet it did not force people to rely on other devices for what it is kind of expected from a modern computer which is what these consoles are... and I am talking about launch PS3. Launch 3DS had a more fully featured offering and could be enjoyed even without buying one new game (built in apps/utilities plus backward compatibility).

As much as it enrages some people, this device makes a lot more sense as a portable device with TV docking capabilities than a console you can take on the go... or at least it is half of both.

Even as a console first and a handheld second, I do not think it is such a great offering bringing the built in functionality back to the GameCube era or not much beyond that (considering how much time it has passed since then, you ought to weigh it against that when you Jussie the OS features).

You can keep putting the word gaming in bold, but again I point the PS4 your way: now that is a good balance between gaming and other functionality and price.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't think any of the non-gaming features (or even BC) were determinant for the success of the 3DS/2DS. Games were. And as you pointed out with the Miiverse integration, some of that other stuff can be added later.

Also given the architecture, technology used and what's in this initial SKU, there's plenty of room for price reductions with the Switch as well, so they can repeat success in the same way. It's just price skimming.

They were important for some consumers and while you could say that by themselves they were not killer apps/features that sold the console on their own, they did make the console offering a more well rounded one.

Sometimes the total package can become much more than the sum of its parts because of how they work together and what value they represent.

Are all the Sony first party titles system sellers? No, does the fact that thanks to those you know you have variety were you to need to branch out and explore new genres even late in the system's lifecycle help it make it that much more of a neat offering for consumers? You betcha!

I am sorry, but like the lack of UHD bit for the PS4 Pro, which I am still irked about, I am not willing to make that many excuses for a multi billion dollar corporation with a humongous war chest and no debts as well as having left their previous system with minimal first party support/push for the last two years.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't think any of the non-gaming features (or even BC) were determinant for the success of the 3DS/2DS. Games were. And as you pointed out with the Miiverse integration, some of that other stuff can be added later.

Also given the architecture, technology used and what's in this initial SKU, there's plenty of room for price reductions with the Switch as well, so they can repeat success in the same way. It's just price skimming.

Oh well, that sure makes it that much better .

Seriously, either this device is aimed at kids and thus will not fly as they expect until they hastily price reduce it and apologise to the early buyers (3DS approach) or actually it is more aimed to Nintendo hardcore fans and will not be price reduced for quite a while.

 

[Steve.1981]

...

I started writing out another reply to you but instead let's just agree to disagree. We're going to start going in endless circles here, and I'm definitely not looking to get into a debate about PS4 V Switch.

We'll find out soon enough how successful Nintendo are going to be with this thing. Personally, I'm excited about the prospect of a fully focused device for gaming that goes against the current trend of offering all sorts of multimedia and sharing capabilities, etc... (If that's even what they want it to be.)

 

[Panajev2001a]

I started writing out another reply to you but instead let's just agree to disagree. We're going to start going in endless circles here, and I'm definitely not looking to get into a debate about PS4 V Switch.

We'll find out soon enough how successful Nintendo are going to be with this thing. Personally, I'm excited about the prospect of a fully focused device for gaming that goes against the current trend of offering all sorts of multimedia and sharing capabilities, etc... (If that's even what they want it to be.)

Fair enough... although I am not sure how offering voice chat, multiplayer and friends list management, etc... on the console too is not being focused on gaming. Where is the line for you between rushed to launch and thus OS and services not being ready and being focused on gaming? Why was the PS4 not focused enough on gaming?

 

[brochiller]

I'll be gutted if we don't have BBC iPlayer

Doubt that will ever come to Switch considering Nintendo requested BBC remove it from the Wii U.

 

[Aselith]

I started writing out another reply to you but instead let's just agree to disagree. We're going to start going in endless circles here, and I'm definitely not looking to get into a debate about PS4 V Switch.

We'll find out soon enough how successful Nintendo are going to be with this thing. Personally, I'm excited about the prospect of a fully focused device for gaming that goes against the current trend of offering all sorts of multimedia and sharing capabilities, etc... (If that's even what they want it to be.)

They ARE offering a bunch of sharing capabilities

Nintendo are trying to be "me too" as hell with their online offering (including the paid service) but they're just really bad at online anything.

 

[Steve.1981]

Fair enough... although I am not sure how offering voice chat, multiplayer and friends list management, etc... on the console too is not being focused on gaming. Where is the line for you between rushed to launch and thus OS and services not being ready and being focused on gaming? Why was the PS4 not focused enough on gaming?

I wasn't ever talking about multiplayer or voice chat, I was talking about Netflix, web browser or uploading gameplay to YouTube... Stuff like that, which I consider optional at best and pointless at worst. And I never made any judgment about the PS4, one way or the other.

But like I said, let's just leave it.

They ARE offering a bunch of sharing capabilities

I literally said in the post you quoted, "If that's even what they want it to be".

I've said more than once that it could be a moot point because maybe Nintendo are going to offer all the extras anyway. I simply can't see the problem if they don't. I can't see why a device designed solely for gaming, without Netflix and stuff, can't exist or succeed, or why gamers wouldn't at least be interested in it.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I understand that adding all these extra apps for currently popular streaming services, etc, can increase the perceived value of the product for some people. I do understand that. I'm just saying maybe Nintendo aren't focusing on those people. Maybe they're aiming this thing at anyone who's primarily interested in gaming.

And again, they could just add this stuff in later.

How big do you think the market of "people interested in an expensive device that only plays $60 games" is?

 

[kaizoku]

Having Netflix in there is not a Nintendo decision as such, they just provide the app economy/infrastructure and Netflix decide if they want to be ther or not.

I guess the difference is Nintendo has not prioritised entertainment companies by giving them development kits so that they can have stuff ready in time for launch - which IMO is fine. They're not courting non-game companies.

 

[Skittzo0413]

I had a thought about this at work today. This lack of any focus on anything that's not video games could come across as Nintendo being hyper-sensitive about another screw-up in their messaging of their new product.

For instance, if they advertise and promote things like Netflix, people might refer to it as a tablet device. Hell, even without that, some people still do. And when your product is associated with a particular type of product, it changes how it is perceived.

Nintendo is smack-you-over-the-head-til-you-get-it clear that they want you to see this as a video game console, so not providing things like Netflix at launch may be a deliberate tactic to control public perception in ways that clearly got away from them the last time around due to their own muddling of things. This may just be an extreme reaction in the opposite direction.

This seems like a reasonable assessment but... Why aren't they positioning it as a quasi-tablet device? A huge amount of tablet use is relegated to streaming apps and Minecraft, the latter of which the Switch is confirmed to have. This really could be positioned as a fairly low-medium cost tablet if it had that functionality and it would probably do well there.

Unless I have a profound misunderstanding of the tablet market.

 

[Living the Dream]

This seems like a reasonable assessment but... Why aren't they positioning it as a quasi-tablet device? A huge amount of tablet use is relegated to streaming apps and Minecraft, the latter of which the Switch is confirmed to have. This really could be positioned as a fairly low-medium cost tablet if it had that functionality and it would probably do well there.

Unless I have a profound misunderstanding of the tablet market.

You do.

 

[Skittzo0413]

You do.

Fair enough, but in what way?

 

[Living the Dream]

Fair enough, but in what way?

People aren't going to spend $300 on a device that doesn't have a web browser, music player, video players, $1 games, F2P games, or an App Store without hundreds of thousands of apps.

Just because you can take off the controllers and it becomes a screen, doesn't mean it's a tablet.

EVEN if you could do all of that, the sheer size and battery life is absolutely horrible compared to tablets. AND then, it's another ecosystem which means nothing carries over from android or Apple where a used has made purchases.

That's not even mentioning the price, which is extremely high for its limited capabilities.

 

[herod]

Why would you want to use a console for netflix? Navigating with a shitty pad, crap battery life, long boot up times and fuckin messages popping up all the time. The Wii U is the worst netflix-capable device connected to my TV and there is nothing about that that will change with switch. Dedicated devices destroy consoles in this area.

 

[Icedburden]

Does the PS4 play MP3s now? Because it pretty famously didn't at launch.

Off usbs yes it can

 

[Skittzo0413]

People aren't going to spend $300 on a device that doesn't have a web browser, music player, video players, $1 games, F2P games, or an App Store without hundreds of thousands of apps.

Just because you can take off the controllers and it becomes a screen, doesn't mean it's a tablet.

EVEN if you could do all of that, the sheer size and battery life is absolutely horrible compared to tablets. AND then, it's another ecosystem which means nothing carries over from android or Apple where a used has made purchases.

That's not even mentioning the price, which is extremely high for its limited capabilities.

Oh perhaps I didn't make my point clearly- I'm saying if Nintendo had focused on making sure those features like a web browser and video streaming apps were available on day 1, then this could have been considered a decent tablet competitor.

The size of this is smaller than most tablets, the battery lasts up to 6 hours, which, compared to other tablets is indeed low but I wouldn't expect it to last much under that when just streaming video, and yeah it doesn't have the app store or the google play store, but it would have Nintendo's eshop with its own set of games and programs.

And this is far cheaper than most tablets out there. So I do get that it would have its work cut out for it, but I think it could've been a decent competitor. Clearly Nintendo has controlled the message such that this can't really be compared to a tablet, but I still can't really figure out why.

 

[SuperSah]

This is the perfect platform for these things.

Watching NFlix on the big screen but someone wants to use the TV? No problem. Undock it and go and watch it elsewhere.

 

[oti]

This seems like a reasonable assessment but... Why aren't they positioning it as a quasi-tablet device? A huge amount of tablet use is relegated to streaming apps and Minecraft, the latter of which the Switch is confirmed to have. This really could be positioned as a fairly low-medium cost tablet if it had that functionality and it would probably do well there.

Unless I have a profound misunderstanding of the tablet market.

Is there a market for this? Apple is the premium range and even Google can't position itself next to Apple. But Android comfortably dominates the cheap range. You can get a tablet with thousands of free apps and thousands of free games for 50€. If you're an Amazon Prime subscriber you can even get a dirt cheap tablet for all your benefits, such as completely free apps (no IAP for Underground apps) and Amazon Video.

Nintendo can't compete with that. Not to say that a YouTube and Netflix app would do any harm at all, but if Nintendo tried to position Switch as this low-medium tablet you're describing they would fail miserably.

 

[paulc316]

Will all the people complaining about no Netflix at launch come back and tell us how great it is once it eventually comes? Or will they suddenly not care?

 

[Skittzo0413]

Is there a market for this? Apple is the premium range and even Google can't position itself next to Apple. But Android comfortably dominates the cheap range. You can get a tablet with thousands of free apps and thousands of free games for 50€. If you're an Amazon Prime subscriber you can even get a dirt cheap tablet for all your benefits, such as completely free apps (no IAP for Underground apps) and Amazon Video.

Nintendo can't compete with that. Not to say that a YouTube and Netflix app would do any harm at all, but if Nintendo tried to position Switch as this low-medium tablet you're describing they would fail miserably.

Wow. I guess I wasn't aware how cheap fully functional tablets have gotten.

Something could be said for a Nintendo-branded premium tablet which doubles as a full gaming console, but that's not the easiest idea to market, so I guess that could be why they are staying away from that. I do think Nintendo needs to get this functionality there at some point because this could become a device capable of doing almost anything multimedia related, which does seem like a premium idea.

Good thing I'm not in charge of Nintendo's marketing and messaging, right?

 

[messiaen]

Yeah, because North Americans and Europeans are the only ones who care about things like access to streaming video options... are you kidding me with this shit?

Streaming services akin to Hulu/Netflix are not nearly as widely used or fleshed out in terms of content in Japan/Korea as they are here.

Friends from there told me as much at least.

 

[oti]

Wow. I guess I wasn't aware how cheap fully functional tablets have gotten.

Something could be said for a Nintendo-branded premium tablet which doubles as a full gaming console, but that's not the easiest idea to market, so I guess that could be why they are staying away from that. I do think Nintendo needs to get this functionality there at some point because this could become a device capable of doing almost anything multimedia related, which does seem like a premium idea.

Good thing I'm not in charge of Nintendo's marketing and messaging, right?

Those 50€ aren't great experiences, at all. It's just that the parts have become so cheap thanks to the global demand that pretty much everyone can use the same parts and create such a cheap tablet. With Amazon you get better hardware for a similar low price, but they can afford that by subsidizing with their Prime membership. They have the media and games ecosystem Nintendo will never have.

As far as I can tell all the 200€-ish tablets nowadays try to do something different, like an attachable keyboard, a beamer or something like that. If they fail, it doesn't matter. They can always release another one of those tablets. Nintendo can't do that. That's not how the video game business works.

In the end I really believe Nintendo looked at what would enable them to release a hybrid console thanks to their unique IP portfolio and they went with the tablet form factor. Not because they want a piece of that market but because it just makes sense to use the low component prices to their advantage.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Having Netflix in there is not a Nintendo decision as such, they just provide the app economy/infrastructure and Netflix decide if they want to be ther or not.

I guess the difference is Nintendo has not prioritised entertainment companies by giving them development kits so that they can have stuff ready in time for launch - which IMO is fine. They're not courting non-game companies.

Seems to be a conscious decision on Nintendo's part.

 

[Shiggy]

Seems to be a conscious decision on Nintendo's part.

What's even the point?

 

[NimbusD]

Why would you want to use a console for netflix? Navigating with a shitty pad, crap battery life, long boot up times and fuckin messages popping up all the time. The Wii U is the worst netflix-capable device connected to my TV and there is nothing about that that will change with switch. Dedicated devices destroy consoles in this area.

I always use my Wii u for Netflix because if I feel like moving from the living room to the bedroom I can just grab it and go without switching devices.

Nintendo is so muddy with the concept of the switch I don't even think they realize that'd be a selling point w multimedia capabilities. Being able to undock it and continue your show as you head to the kitchen or something is an awesome bit of functionality that they should be hyping up with easy to implement things like streaming apps.

 

[Trogdor1123]

The problem with Netflix being everywhere is now that everyone expects it to be everywhere and when it's not it really will be seen as problem. I think this is more of a problem than Nintendo thinks.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Will all the people complaining about no Netflix at launch come back and tell us how great it is once it eventually comes? Or will they suddenly not care?

They won't care because they will have moved on. It's not like it's a single issue with switch. It's a huge pile of issues.

 

[TannerDemoz]

Doubt that will ever come to Switch considering Nintendo requested BBC remove it from the Wii U.

Save costs? dwindling player base on Wii U and avoid having to renew license?

I don't know enough about the costs of these things though and I suppose Nintendo wouldn't bat an eyelid at the costs of doing so though. It was a great app on the Wii U though

 

[unrenowned]

Save costs? dwindling player base on Wii U and avoid having to renew license?

I don't know enough about the costs of these things though and I suppose Nintendo wouldn't bat an eyelid at the costs of doing so though. It was a great app on the Wii U though

Its a good way of pissing off current pro-Nintendo consumers that would be interested in getting a Switch at some point. Only thing worse than not providing functionality is removing it.

 

[Future]

In the end his doesn't matter cuz you can get Netflix on your toaster

But it doesn't bode well for Nintendo strategy at all. Gives the impression of a locked down eco system that will take forever to expand out of its shell

 

[LordRaptor]

Seems to be a conscious decision on Nintendo's part.

Laura Kate Dale has something of a credibility gap between her pre-release rumours and what was actually shown though.

 

[JRW]

Finally, some good news.

Agreed!