Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
Unfortunately out of stock and unavailable for shipping or pickup.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Unfortunately out of stock and unavailable for shipping or pickup.
RedlineRonin
Member
Nah, panel is fine.
There's a difference between banding/vignetting related to bad panels that they're talking about on AVS (notice the vertical dark and light areas):
And banding of actual content, due to a myriad of reasons; compression, low bitrate etc.
Notice how there are literally "bands" of color circulating out from the center. This is the exact thing that HDR fixes, by moving from 8 bit to 10 bit. However, when you have an HDR set, and you're watching 8 bit content, the TV can only do so much if the original content was mastered in 8 bit.
Hence the game of thrones issue. What's weird, like I said, is that it truly does look very impressive during any day time scenes. There are some shots of things like cobblestone pavement where so much detail is resolved that I'd almost swear it's 4K (but not quite), but there are a handful of dark scenes where banding (as shown in the second picture) is very prominent.
It's just a real shame that S7 won't be in HDR/4K. Amazon/Netflix Originals are slowly eating the traditional "big guys" (like HBO)'s lunches when it comes to 4K/HDR.
Ahhhh, I saw it said add to cart so thought it was in stock. Kinda dumb that you're able to add to cart but then not select either shipping or pick up.
No offense but it looks like you're not really looking for people's advice and are dead set on the qled.
Buy that.
Night Hunter
Banned
Just buy the Samsung TV and be happy that you didn't fall prey to all the propaganda out there like all the other sheeple
RedlineRonin
Member
As an aside, that C7 thread on AVS is kind of a train wreck imho.....
I love AVS, and spend time in a lot of the audio threads, but the TV threads are notorious for people doing everything they can to find things wrong with their TVs.
I didn't even do 5% gray slides, because everything on my set looks fantastic, and I have no noticeable issues in dark scenes (that aren't content related), so i'm not gonna go looking for ways to make myself unhappy with my purchase.
Just my two cents =)
I love AVS, and spend time in a lot of the audio threads, but the TV threads are notorious for people doing everything they can to find things wrong with their TVs.
I didn't even do 5% gray slides, because everything on my set looks fantastic, and I have no noticeable issues in dark scenes (that aren't content related), so i'm not gonna go looking for ways to make myself unhappy with my purchase.
Just my two cents =)
What type of programming is 5% gray indicative of? Sports mostly?
Pasedo
Member
Not really. On the fence between lg C7 and Sammy Q9. Both are really good to me and i keep going back and forth because one day c7 smashes the q9 and then when i go back to have another look the q9 seems better. I think it all depends on the content. In the end ill probably will go the cheapest of the two.
I was at a conference a little while ago when an editor on GOT accidentally let slip he was working on an HDR colour grade for GOT Season 6.
So there probably will be at least an HD HDR version at some point, but it's not coming yet.
The XB1S doesn't support DV, so it will always default to HDR10 on content that supports DV.
The Q9 is an expensive edge-lit LED with poor local dimming.
If you wanna go the LED route, maybe look at the 2017 Sony models
The X930E for example, while also being edge-lit, has a good local dimming feature and is an all around good performer.
The cheaper X900E is also a solid choice.
This might be lame but I'm going to quote myself for anyone in the USA looking to buy a TV. Especially OLED.
The price quote I received a couple weeks back for the 55C7 was very close to what Best Bell sells the 55B6.
Oh and yeah I know XB1 only supports HDR10, that's why I tested it out.
MS decision on adding Dolby Vision is going to determine if I upgrade my XB1S to XB1X this fall or go with the Oppo 203 instead.
The price quote I received a couple weeks back for the 55C7 was very close to what Best Bell sells the 55B6.
Oh and yeah I know XB1 only supports HDR10, that's why I tested it out.
MS decision on adding Dolby Vision is going to determine if I upgrade my XB1S to XB1X this fall or go with the Oppo 203 instead.Can I ask...have you seen the Q9 in conditions that would mimic your home viewing conditions?
RedlineRonin
Member
None? But it does help to suss out when a panel might be bad, and cause issues for other stuff....
Take this picture for instance:
Here
I think this is a shot from one of the guys' sets on AVS
There's clearly content banding (which could honestly be caused by a million things, including compression of the image taken or the camera itself, so you don't actually see the banding if you're there in the room), but separate from that, it's very easy to see how the vertical banding from a bad panel interferes with the quality of the image.
That's where the gray slides might be useful... But again, I'm not going looking for issues if I don't see them in normal content.
Well here's hoping. I can only imagine how good it will look. DV and 4K? Oof!
This might be lame but I'm going to quote myself for anyone in the USA looking to buy a TV. Especially OLED.
The price quote I received a couple weeks back for the 55C7 was very close to what Best Bell sells the 55B6.
Oh and yeah I know XB1 only supports HDR10, that's why I tested it out.
Take this article for what you will, but I'm not counting on it.
http://www.thehdroom.com/bluray/xbox-one-x-4k-uhd-blu-ray-hdr10-yes-dolby-vision-no-109430/
Nah, panel is fine.
There's a difference between banding/vignetting related to bad panels that they're talking about on AVS (notice the vertical dark and light areas):
And banding of actual content, due to a myriad of reasons; compression, low bitrate etc.
Notice how there are literally "bands" of color circulating out from the center. This is the exact thing that HDR fixes, by moving from 8 bit to 10 bit. However, when you have an HDR set, and you're watching 8 bit content, the TV can only do so much if the original content was mastered in 8 bit.
Hence the game of thrones issue. What's weird, like I said, is that it truly does look very impressive during any day time scenes. There are some shots of things like cobblestone pavement where so much detail is resolved that I'd almost swear it's 4K (but not quite), but there are a handful of dark scenes where banding (as shown in the second picture) is very prominent.
It's just a real shame that S7 won't be in HDR/4K. Amazon/Netflix Originals are slowly eating the traditional "big guys" (like HBO)'s lunches when it comes to 4K/HDR.
Ahhhh, I saw it said add to cart so thought it was in stock. Kinda dumb that you're able to add to cart but then not select either shipping or pick up.
Damn that would annoy me too for sure. Yea AVS is full of ppl trying their hardest to focus on just the flaws for sure, but it is still a good place to learn. Im just starting to really dive in as I have major upgradeitis and I am eyeing the C7.
RedlineRonin
Member
Interesting....
Well, the upshot is that:
A) DV is generally a software implementation, so support can be added at any time via firmware
B) They already support Atmos, so it would seem odd to support Atmos, but not DV
C) If more and more big guns keep coming out with support (Like Disney/Marvel), it will increase the likelyhood that they add it at some point.
Also, they could totally do what they're already doing with Atmos and just pass the licensing fee directly on to their customers who want the functionality, so it wouldn't truly cost them anything other than the cert process.
Welcome!
A lot of us started to "dive in" over the last few months and have become X6/X7 owners.
AVS is a fantastic place to learn, esp about a lot of very niche, unique issues, as well as be able to interact with people who are very smart and work directly in the industry. It can just be a bit of a perfectionist community at times, maybe to a fault... =)
After I bought by C6 last year I stopped looking at the AVS forums. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find issues with the tv like they do. Just relax and enjoy your awesome product.
TheBoss1
Member
Yeah the blacks on the Z9D are impressive as hell but the blooming really shows itself being next to an OLED.
We need a display with 1000+ nits, no ABL, no image retention, CRT motion resolution, and low input lag. A man can only dream.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Looking for a new TV here, since my old 40" 1080p Bravia is starting to feel a bit old (still works great though). Obviously going 4K, and a bit larger, but I'm not really looking to burn crazy amounts here, so OLEDs are out of the question I think.
So what I'm looking at right now is the Bravia 55XE9005. Seems like a good mid-range choice from what I've been able to gather, with the main drawback being image degradation when viewed at an angle. I'm not really willing to spend a lot more than this (it's around 17K SEK (about $2K) here in Sweden). I'm also a bit partial to Sony, as their stuff has always treated me well, and plan on getting one of their recent receivers as well. I also like the idea of Android TV better than whatever Samsung and others use, and Chromecast built-in is a big plus for me (although maybe they all have that now). The TV will be used for streaming, gaming (getting a PS4 Pro to go with it), etc. Mixed use, I suppose. Input lag seems a BIT high at just over 30ms, but nothing too terrible.
Thoughts?
So what I'm looking at right now is the Bravia 55XE9005. Seems like a good mid-range choice from what I've been able to gather, with the main drawback being image degradation when viewed at an angle. I'm not really willing to spend a lot more than this (it's around 17K SEK (about $2K) here in Sweden). I'm also a bit partial to Sony, as their stuff has always treated me well, and plan on getting one of their recent receivers as well. I also like the idea of Android TV better than whatever Samsung and others use, and Chromecast built-in is a big plus for me (although maybe they all have that now). The TV will be used for streaming, gaming (getting a PS4 Pro to go with it), etc. Mixed use, I suppose. Input lag seems a BIT high at just over 30ms, but nothing too terrible.
Thoughts?
I'm guessing that's the equivalent of the X900e? If so the X900e is basically the best midrange TV to purchase so you should be good.
A/V equivalent of Neogaf then where we nitpick all gaming issues.
A/V equivalent of Neogaf then where we nitpick all gaming issues.
RedlineRonin
Member
Nahhhh, Just need that Sony BVM Mastering monitor in a 65"
Idk what size they used in the shootout, but it was only like $30K, so, ya know, cheap =)
A/V equivalent of Neogaf then where we nitpick all gaming issues.
Haha, maybe a bit more anal retentiveness and a few less hot takes, but sure =)
The 55XE9005 is a very good TV and one of the better options right now.
And viewing angles will suck on pretty much every VA based LCD.
TheBoss1
Member
Really? So why does Samsung have to be very deceiving with their marketing ploys but then others let the tech speak for themselves. All manufacturers are susceptible to to these tactics but Samsung has a history of going beyond the norm (LED TVs anyone?).
If anyone is paying off it is Samsung.
Yeah that's a great choice.
We need that monitor in all sizes haha!
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Cool, thanks. How severe is that issue though? My living room isn't huge, so people not sitting in the middle of the couch will be at a bit of an angle. I'll try to find a store with it on display to check it out myself of course, but I'm guessing it's gonna look hella lot better than my current 40W4000 in any case.
Short of going IPS (don't do that) or OLED, you're not going to have large viewing angles.
How do you feel about the 40W4000 in that regard? If you're fine with that then maybe you'll be fine with the XE9005. It's not like it's worse than average, it's pretty much typical for a VA panel.
There's one thing though, blooming.
That might be an issue in some cases.
But yes, go check it out in person if you can.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Thanks.
What about the input lag? When I bought the 40W4000 the decision was rather heavily influenced by its excellent input lag (around 10ms I believe), so I've been blessed with essentially lag-free gaming for the last 9 years (and before that I had a CRT). Am I likely to significantly notice the worse lag on this one? Rtings has it at 34ms at 4K60 in game mode, which is obviously a few frames at 60fps. That's maybe the biggest thing speaking against this TV for gaming.
Input lag sensitivity depends on the person so I can't help you with that one.
I'd personally be fine with 34ms while others would find it to be above their threshold.
Depends also on the kind of games you're playing.
It's less likely to bother you while playing Zelda than Street Fighter V for example.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, I don't really play a lot of twitchy games. The closest is probably Rocket League, but I don't know what 2 frames is gonna do there. It's certainly not a game where you depend on frame-perfect inputs.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Buy what you want and be happy with it. But just be aware that if you come to a discussion forum asking opinions on which is a better TV, you may not be happy with the answers. Your viewing environment and habits may align with LCDs strengths and that is fine. But with that said, I am quite sure you must have, at minimum, an inkling suspicion OLEDs are objectively and measurably better than all the various varieties of LCDs (even the QLED ones)
This is not breaking news.
TheBoss1
Member
10 ms is really low. Are you sure you're not confusing it for response time? I don't know if I've ever seen a TV with such low input lag. The TCL and LG LCD sets might be closest I've seen at around 15 ms.
What I don't understand is if he wants peak brightness in a high end LCD why not just buy the Sony X930e instead. It looks to get brighter than Q9F for HDR in real world situations and seems to be a better overall tv in general.
RedAssedApe
Banned
highly doubt you had a 40inch LCD that hit 10 ms input lag. you're probably thinking response time.
edit: huh...i guess that particular set had low input lag numbers compared to competitors
RedlineRonin
Member
Nah, he's right...
https://www.avforums.com/threads/sony-w-series-input-lag-32w4000-tested.1039065/
The HDTVtest review of the 40" also notes input latency comparable to a CRT, so I'm guessing in the 10ms neighborhood is accurate.
Have to keep in mind with HDR and 4K, there's an insane amount of processing being done and it all takes time (relatively speaking)
RedAssedApe
Banned
yeah i just saw that lol. :foot in mouth:
back in the day i don't think there was much focus on measuring that in reviews. i remember my Sony XBR4 and a comparable Samsung set at the time having noticeably bad input lag outside of game mode.
ss_lemonade
Member
And banding of actual content, due to a myriad of reasons; compression, low bitrate etc.
Notice how there are literally "bands" of color circulating out from the center. This is the exact thing that HDR fixes, by moving from 8 bit to 10 bit. However, when you have an HDR set, and you're watching 8 bit content, the TV can only do so much if the original content was mastered in 8 bit.
Is that on an LG OLED? I see quite a bit of banding too when gaming on my ks9000, and I also noticed this to be a frequent issue being brought up by people who have been upgrading to newer, bigger TVs. It sucks that all I can do is "deal with it".
Do the newer Sony TVs still have the option to clean banding up? My w900a has a "Smooth Gradients" option that works like magic in smoothing this artifact up.
RedAssedApe
Banned
RedlineRonin
Member
To be clear, that's a random picture from the interwebs.
But it represents exactly what I see in dark scenes in GoT on my C7. It's just a random example of banding.
Yes, it's an issue for any TV that will display 8 bit content with a 10 bit panel. It's just a fact of life, the same way watching standard definition content could often look worse on an HDTV, because the increase in resolution and ability to display more/better color exposed more imperfections in the picture.
The LG had "HDR Effect" but that didn't really help. Not sure if there's a similar setting in the C7 or not. Maybe someone else knows.
I will say it's not as pronounced on my set as it is in that picture. That was more for illustrative purposes.
RedlineRonin
Member
What Denon do you have?
Well, in my experience, movies that have a lot of sections just-above-black will show the bands that you see posted on AVS. Arrival is a perfect example. Bloodborne/Dark Souls 3 for gaming. Uh, I played Ghost Recon: Wildlands last night on my 65B7 and banding was visible at night, so that one. I do think that people on AVSForum obsess over banding on OLED but you can sometimes see it in content and that does suck for the price we pay for these displays.
Cool thanks!
My main concern in upgrading to an OLED (whether it be the C7 or the A1E), is that I'm so used to pulse display through my Pioneer Kuro, that sample and hold motion issues might drive me insane. It's really the only thing making me want to maybe pay the premium for the A1E since it apparently handles motion better. I may just be overly exaggerating the issue in my brain though.
In other news, the Emmy nomination thread reminded me to go preorder the Westworld UHD set. Can't wait, now I have a deadline of November to get my new TV, UHD player, and upgrade my AV Receiver to Atmos and get some add-on front atmos speakers.
In other news, the Emmy nomination thread reminded me to go preorder the Westworld UHD set. Can't wait, now I have a deadline of November to get my new TV, UHD player, and upgrade my AV Receiver to Atmos and get some add-on front atmos speakers.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, their review was what sold me on the TV back then. And it has been great. But it's time to move on, and I guess I just cannot expect such brilliant input lag nowadays.
The W4000 doesn't even have a game mode, because it simply doesn't need one.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Vignetting isn't much of a problem for me if I set my B6 to 50 brightness. I don't think I've noticed in movies or games, with that setting.
Stiler
Member
Ok I can't for the life of me get HDR to work with ME: Andromeda.
I have the newest nvidia drivers, w10 latest updates, etc.
I have tried windows 10 HDR mode on/off, etc.
No matter what I do when I play ME:A and turn HDR to auto and select either HDR10 or Dolby Vision the game does not use HDR on my tcl p605.
Also does windows 10 support hdr via youtube? Cause playing youtube 4k/hdr videos isn't giving me HDR either (using firefox or chrome).
I have the newest nvidia drivers, w10 latest updates, etc.
I have tried windows 10 HDR mode on/off, etc.
No matter what I do when I play ME:A and turn HDR to auto and select either HDR10 or Dolby Vision the game does not use HDR on my tcl p605.
Also does windows 10 support hdr via youtube? Cause playing youtube 4k/hdr videos isn't giving me HDR either (using firefox or chrome).
RedlineRonin
Member
Haven't read up much, but I know HDR was broken two NV drivers ago. I'm on creators update and 3 version old drivers, but everything works for HDR.
I thought I read that the newest NV drivers were supposed to have fixed what the 2 version old ones broke?
Dave_6
Member
Stiler
Member
That's what I thought to.
RedlineRonin
Member
That's not a surprise actually. So many AVRs don't turn off processing for video, even when it says it's off. I remember that's why I bought a pioneer elite back in the day and why I'm going Anthem now.
That sucks... =/
DOT DASH DOT
Member
It works fine for me since latest Nvidia drivers, does your desktop boot to HDR when selected? Make sure in Nvidia control panel you have 10bit 420 or 422 selected.