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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

McNum

Member
I don't think the Dhalsim really knew what to do himself! Actual constructive feedback though:

- Karin's Ressenha requires a different approach against Dhalsim. A couple of his limbs slap it out of the air no problem and it's ineffective against his fireballs because of their unusual trajectory.
- You left yourself open to possible teleport mix-ups with how you let him chuck fireballs scot-free. You displayed no pressure.
- What you should be doing instead: moving or even dashing forwards if another Dhalsim is as careless as that guy. His fireballs are slow to come out after all and Karin has good movement speed.
- He used his V-Skill a lot in your match, but the way he applied it was very ineffective and wildly unsafe. There was nothing to worry about here.

Look two posts up as well for more general advice.
Yeah, I had a feeling he wasn't playing to Dhasim's strength. I get what he was up to. Tempt an easy target, then do that big fist swing when I jump at him. But after repeating it too much, I found a counter and he didn't change that up too much. As for the fireballs, yeah I'm gonna command dash those from now on. But I hadn't faced a Sim before, so I wanted to observe. I did learn a few things from it, like Ressenha is NOT completely fireball immune, but the legs likely are. Good to know for my first Rashid whenever I meet one of those.

It's the opposite.

When I hop on I'm thinking of matches from the day before and what I want to work on in training mode. You don't initially work on things on ranked first. You practice concepts in training and then put it to the test online in casual matches or lobbies and then go to ranked. Ranked isn't end all be all.
I need to leverage Training Mode more than I do. I badly need to give Karin some teeth in something, just something that can be done on reaction without thinking too hard. It feels to me like the matches where I do well are those where I focus on normals more. I honestly think that with just basic spacing and footsies, and a couple of punishes that really hurt, I could step up my game significantly. Less gimmicky full screen specials, more just walking up and kicking them. I mean between st. MK and cr. HK she has the reach to do that. So why not?

I also learned that Karin's Tenko launcher comes in two flavors which need different timing on their followups. Well THAT explains a lot. I should have known, since she has different voice clips for them. I think the followup of choice is LK scissor kicks, which makes sense. I'd like to find one that works on both the fast and the slower Tenko, just so I don't have to worry about that just yet.
 
I should be able to.

Sweet. So how does it work exactly? Since lobbies haven't worked I don't know, but is it just create lobby then send invite?

Somethings are just obtuse about this game Ui wise. Like, I know you can add recent players to a favorite list but there doesn't seem to be a way to add them to your friends list? I don't understand why they wouldn't have that feature if it's just not there and I'm not missing it.
 
Sweet. So how does it work exactly? Since lobbies haven't worked I don't know, but is it just create lobby then send invite?

Somethings are just obtuse about this game Ui wise. Like, I know you can add recent players to a favorite list but there doesn't seem to be a way to add them to your friends list? I don't understand why they wouldn't have that feature if it's just not there and I'm not missing it.

The UI is really weak compared to SFIV.

Add me to your favorites list via rival search (Nomida).

When you make a lobby, make it private. To invite in SFV, you press triangle and then invite. The invite list brings up your CFN favorites list, and then you or I will invite eachother.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
I need to leverage Training Mode more than I do. I badly need to give Karin some teeth in something, just something that can be done on reaction without thinking too hard. It feels to me like the matches where I do well are those where I focus on normals more. I honestly think that with just basic spacing and footsies, and a couple of punishes that really hurt, I could step up my game significantly.

The biggest help training mode can be is giving you the muscle memory to execute your options for a given situation -- practicing bnbs, punishes, and so on will go an extremely long way in helping you do them in a game without panicking or overthinking it. Training mode can also give you an opportunity to record situations you have a difficult time reacting to in a game to see how they work from the opponent's perspective and let you learn the ways to respond.

You build the muscle memory in training mode, and you build the nerves/reactions in matches. It's an ebb and flow! Training mode is great because it's not a huge commitment unless you want it to be. If you have 20 minutes to kill, that isn't enough to really get a good number of matches in, but you can get a lot of simple training done in that time.
 
The biggest help training mode can be is giving you the muscle memory to execute your options for a given situation -- practicing bnbs, punishes, and so on will go an extremely long way in helping you do them in a game without panicking or overthinking it. Training mode can also give you an opportunity to record situations you have a difficult time reacting to in a game to see how they work from the opponent's perspective and let you learn the ways to respond.

You build the muscle memory in training mode, and you build the nerves/reactions in matches. It's an ebb and flow! Training mode is great because it's not a huge commitment unless you want it to be. If you have 20 minutes to kill, that isn't enough to really get a good number of matches in, but you can get a lot of simple training done in that time.

Yup. Making a post on properly using training mode later today. Please look forward to it!
 

Pachimari

Member
Yup. Making a post on properly using training mode later today. Please look forward to it!

I am!

Wrote this five tips for learning and staying motivated, thought it might help y'all out:

https://medium.com/@pattheflip/lear...street-fighter-players-171eaa23187#.qreuf4hav

I'm gonna read this today, and participate more in this thread.

Do any of you have any great combos for Nash in SFV that I can practice? I only know of:

mp, lk, hp
hk, mk, hk

In the mean time, I'm going through this reddit.
 
No a pro so take what I say with some salt, but I basically only play as Cammy right now. First, I'm really shocked that guy lost, it feels like rather than play his game he'd rather try and out special move you. Because he seemed to got a lot of what I'm about to say down.

Things I've learned about Cammy in the past few days:
Her crouching and standing medium punch are amazing, and are great pokes for keeping people honest and out of her face. It also links easily to the cannon drill for a lot of easy 2-3 hit combos.

It's easy to be too aggressive with her so I try to repeat a mantra to myself: "block and punish" which has helped me not always be in their face because sometimes with Cammy you can afford to be a little patient (so far). Sometimes I'll just stay crouched and wait on them to come to me and then try to frustrate them with pokes (which leads to those easy 2-3 hit combos I mentioned.)

Her v skill is great for closing the gap, don't be afraid to use it. Sometimes I use it just to get away from someone trying to get me from the air, mostly I'll use it to get back in someone's face after I knock them down/back. If you do manage to connect it stuns them briefly allowing you to link to another attack. I like following it up with Forward HK, crouching MP and cannon drill (which sometimes is just a sweep because execution is my major weakness.)

Easy peas combos I've got down for her are
Cr. Lp, St. MP, cannon drill/spike (either is fine, and like I said sometimes this just ends in a sweep which is still pretty good if not disappointing.)
St MP, St hp, cannon drill/spike

Don't be afraid to jump in, just not to much with her. Her jumping medium punch is a pretty good anti air and can also set up combos nicely.

I posted vids earlier in the thread, these were my first 4 matches of the day and was still feeling her out:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=195660689

And these two are after a few hours, I'd gotten more comfortable and actually started winning matches

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=195691991

She's a ton of fun to use so far.

Yeah, I felt bad for the guy, he deserved to win as far as skill went. I got really lucky :)

Anyway, thanks for the tips. She seemed really fun which is why I'm trying to get into her, but her special moves are so tempting to spam. On top of that, I am not the best at timing with combos, how did you work on your timing? I saw the video you linked, where you were fighting Ken, and it seemed like you were in control of your combos, Good fight btw. I can take your combos and lock them down in training, then jump online and forget everything I just learned, or at the very least my execution will be way off.
 
Great thread. I have subscribed.
I added my Psn and Steam information to the google docs, so if anyone wants to play some SF V, add me. Im at work right now but hopefully I can get a few rounds with fellow street fighters tonight =D.
I main Chun and I'm learning Laura so let us sharpen our skills together with the great firey intensity of learning... "cheesy.jpg"
 

pizzacat

Banned
I could give you a video with a couple of Karins I fought if that may or may not do you any good, but I'm also learning so they might not be too helpful regardless of match quality. A few basic pointers though:

- All of Dhalsim's slides are unsafe, sometimes even on hit. They require precise spacing, which many (myself included) are not yet consistent with, so punish accordingly.
- Yoga Drills are also pretty unsafe if not aimed at a character's feet, so that's definitely exploitable if one of them gets carried away with it.
- Raw teleports can be jabbed on reaction.
- Speaking of teleport shenanigans: his jab Yoga Flame is -3 on block, MP -2 and FP +3 IIRC. EX Flame is also safe (+4?) and instant-air Yoga Gale is mad safe on block.
- Learn how to whiff punish his limbs. Her standing and crouching medium are also effective up-close:

ifefoo.gif
eiuxca.gif
Nice gifs, are they yours?

I was getting this sim down with ryu yesterday but I wasn't teching throws (like an idiot) so each time I would just go off with ryu, he would throw me immediately and then I'm back on step 1.

I kept on parrying his limbs as a defense and trying to meet him in the air, but with teleport and the new vskill that's also a danger zone, when I get home I'll try to see what options I got from what you told me

Thanks
 

McNum

Member
I'm fucking telling you, Karin's st mk is such a fucking awesome button.
Good start up, good range, neutral on block. What's not to love?

It kind of makes me wonder what the absolutely best button in the game is. Karin's st. MK is in the top ten, I'd bet. Chun-Li will have a few spots there, too.
 

Kioshen

Member
Good start up, good range, neutral on block. What's not to love?

It kind of makes me wonder what the absolutely best button in the game is. Karin's st. MK is in the top ten, I'd bet. Chun-Li will have a few spots there, too.

Dictator st.HK is up there too. +3 on block, Crush counter and max white life pressure.

Edit: Forgot that it beats mediums on trade which are most pokes in SF5.
 

Baleoce

Member
Good god. Back when I just started using a stick, I got it into my head that I needed an octagonal gate to help improve my execution so I modded it. Just switched back to the square gate that came with it, and for me at least, this is so much better now. I don't think I had that perspective when I started on stick because I wasn't patient enough.
 

Linkhero1

Member
What are the advantages of octagonal gate vs square? I can execute moves with both gates so I'm not sure what the benefit of one over the other is.
 
What are the advantages of octagonal gate vs square? I can execute moves with both gates so I'm not sure what the benefit of one over the other is.

When I first started using a stick, I had a hard time finding the dividing point between 2 and 1 (or 3), so I installed an octagonal gate. after I got a feel for it, I removed it and I've had a much easier time with execution.
 

Baleoce

Member
What are the advantages of octagonal gate vs square? I can execute moves with both gates so I'm not sure what the benefit of one over the other is.

Can't speak for everyone, but when I just switched to stick I wanted the comfort zone that octagonal provides. But now I'm more confident with it, I find the ability to instantly get to the diagonals on a square gate more beneficial as I don't really have to think about the other directions as much any more. That said, not everyone's going to have that problem, and some people swear by octagonal. I guess everyone's different. The other thing being square-gate is more common in arcades. But that's a moot point these days. Perhaps for those who go out to FGC events you're more likely to find a square gate stick to borrow if you needed to for whatever reason, as well.
 
Nice gifs, are they yours?

I was getting this sim down with ryu yesterday but I wasn't teching throws (like an idiot) so each time I would just go off with ryu, he would throw me immediately and then I'm back on step 1.

I kept on parrying his limbs as a defense and trying to meet him in the air, but with teleport and the new vskill that's also a danger zone, when I get home I'll try to see what options I got from what you told me

Thanks
Yeah, took those from beta 4 where Karin was a bit of a demon of mine.

With regards to Ryu: it doesn't hurt to throw out 'random' jab Shoryukens from afar if you're noticing a pattern of rhythm in how the Dhalsim throws out limbs. Need to respect his standing heavy kick Crush Counter obviously, but if you're on the defensive and he's not inclined to go for a teleport mix-up, it's worth a gamble to create an opening for yourself.

wiozyj.gif
szhupw.gif


Ryu also has some good normal buttons to stuff Dhalsim's in a more subdued fashion too, with long-distance parries being rather risky for the reasons you outlined as well not gaining any damage off of it. The overall mindset you can see in a match like this (albeit in SSFIV) largely carries over in Street Fighter V too.
 
Yeah, I felt bad for the guy, he deserved to win as far as skill went. I got really lucky :)

Anyway, thanks for the tips. She seemed really fun which is why I'm trying to get into her, but her special moves are so tempting to spam. On top of that, I am not the best at timing with combos, how did you work on your timing? I saw the video you linked, where you were fighting Ken, and it seemed like you were in control of your combos, Good fight btw. I can take your combos and lock them down in training, then jump online and forget everything I just learned, or at the very least my execution will be way off.

I think the only thing that helps timing is to just fight fight fight. I'm in training between fights just experimenting with, like, distances and what punch/kick does what and how far can I be while still connecting. I like to see what links to what, for example I know I can do cr. Lp>St mp>spiral arrow but can I work another normal in there (this is me talking to myself between fights lol)? Why yes, I can do a cr. Mp, or even a st. Hp.

Once I get to fighting, yeah for a while I'd forget everything, panic and mash but I found that telling myself to "chill, relax, block" helps a lot. I'll attack them one button at a time if I have to haha and that way you slowly find out what normals work and when, even if you lose. I still have an execution problem but hopefully that fades with time and fights.
 
There are two ways to do Shoryuken, and diagonal twice is the shortcut. The only other way is the actual forward, down, down-forward motion. It might take some practice to combo from crouching to dp motion, especially if you have a habit of holding down-back even while performing crouching normals, but it's probably a smoother motion than pushing a diagonal twice.

I managed to learn to do it with the common motion, it flows better like you said. Only problem now I can't cancel into critical art. Sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't and I don't know what to do. I try to do a QCF after the dp but I don't know if it's the correct way
 
Damn I need to catch up on a lot of videos. I was getting whooped a lot last night and was getting pretty salty ha. Thanks for continual updates to this thread. I'll probably be on later tonight (9ish EST) so if anyone sees me online (PSN: Ahhhhhkmon) feel free to hit me up.
 

McNum

Member
Before these two get lost in the previous page, I looked at them, and although I am no master, I did notice one key difference between the two fights. You walked yourself into the corner against Ken. You really don't want to be in the corner against Ken. Get out of there, even if it means burning your V-Trigger for a teleport. Though a V-Reversal is probably better, but if you really need to get out, it's an option.
 
I think the only thing that helps timing is to just fight fight fight. I'm in training between fights just experimenting with, like, distances and what punch/kick does what and how far can I be while still connecting. I like to see what links to what, for example I know I can do cr. Lp>St mp>spiral arrow but can I work another normal in there (this is me talking to myself between fights lol)? Why yes, I can do a cr. Mp, or even a st. Hp.

Once I get to fighting, yeah for a while I'd forget everything, panic and mash but I found that telling myself to "chill, relax, block" helps a lot. I'll attack them one button at a time if I have to haha and that way you slowly find out what normals work and when, even if you lose. I still have an execution problem but hopefully that fades with time and fights.

Yeah, I actually took your advice and what you said here. While, I still suck with cammy (lol), I did do significantly better. I thought so at least. I was not flying around and took my time. one thing I need to learn is patience.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
I managed to learn to do it with the common motion, it flows better like you said. Only problem now I can't cancel into critical art. Sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't and I don't know what to do. I try to do a QCF after the dp but I don't know if it's the correct way

Yeah. That should work! That's how I've done it since Alpha 2. You have to make sure to complete the Shoryuken motion, press a button, then quickly do the QCF and press a button again.

In SFV, let's say you're doing HP Shoryuken into Critical Art. I would do (using keypad notion -- assume the numbers on a keypad are directions on a joystick/d-pad) 623.HP~236.HP. That should give you the SRK hit quickly cancelled into the Critical Art. With motions that don't overlap like SRK and CA in this instance, it can be trickier, but the speed you can do CA/Super/Ultra/etc. motions will increase the more you do them.
 
Yeah, I actually took your advice and what you said here. While, I still suck with cammy (lol), I did do significantly better. I thought so at least. I was not flying around and took my time. one thing I need to learn is patience.

No problem man, if you're ever interested we can have a Cammy battle :p

My name on psn and cfn is the same as here.
 

rrc1594

Member
Before these two get lost in the previous page, I looked at them, and although I am no master, I did notice one key difference between the two fights. You walked yourself into the corner against Ken. You really don't want to be in the corner against Ken. Get out of there, even if it means burning your V-Trigger for a teleport. Though a V-Reversal is probably better, but if you really need to get out, it's an option.

Thank you.
 
Yeah. That should work! That's how I've done it since Alpha 2. You have to make sure to complete the Shoryuken motion, press a button, then quickly do the QCF and press a button again.

In SFV, let's say you're doing HP Shoryuken into Critical Art. I would do (using keypad notion -- assume the numbers on a keypad are directions on a joystick/d-pad) 623.HP~236.HP. That should give you the SRK hit quickly cancelled into the Critical Art. With motions that don't overlap like SRK and CA in this instance, it can be trickier, but the speed you can do CA/Super/Ultra/etc. motions will increase the more you do them.

I'll try later, thanks!!
 

McNum

Member
I haven't felt like a fight today. I've been doing some training mode against a Ken set to hurricane kick at random intervals, with one of the recordings being his V-Trigger activation, just to learn what to do against different angles of it. Was valuable data, for sure, as I found out that Karin has a pretty sweet anti-air in neutral jump MK, but also that any and all Tatsu, except EX V-Trigger divekick tatsu, are dead easy to hit after they stop spinning. That one is just bad news.

I do wish I could actually program the dummy instead of having to input it manually. I'd love a "Do these four moves randomly, but block at all times otherwise" setting for the training dummy.

Also, sloppy Tenko comboes into qcb+LK rather easily. The timing is super lenient, so there's my new combo extension. It's not optimal, it's not flashy. But I can do it easily enough. Next extension to this will be comboing into Tenko, but that's a trickier thing, and not something I want to worry about in a real fight yet.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I decided to record a handful of my matches and I would really welcome some criticism. I already know that I jump way too much and I'm hoping to work on it now that I realize it.

Matches from yesterday

Loss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ReJxp3AJBw

Loss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYmQavauZlU

Matches from today

Win: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Wbo2r2kfU

Win: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLOWcHKoC-w

Win, but I didn't capitalize on any of the super obvious openings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP-TTAApoZM

Loss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeDp5RsqiRU

I actually baited my opponent and punished (Win): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYxCc6guY-Y
 
I apologize if I or others missed your matches and didn't comment on them. I'll be canvassing back to comment on older videos. I'm in no way a master, but I'll do what I can.
 

Guru-Guru

Banned
Went 0-7 on casual matches last night. Kind of an expected result.

Is there no way to set a dummy in training mode to just jump constantly towards me? Under the settings you can set it to jump, but it just jumps up straight vertically. Out of the many problems I have, one of the most glaring is that when opponents were jumping towards me I never punished them for it. I'm playing as Ken. I'm guessing that a good counter would be to time my dragon punch (I think that's what it's called?) when they jump in? Or even just his regular uppercut?
 

pattheflip

Neo Member
Last night I streamed a training session with my girlfriend, and I posted the VOD here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Km5UGsb_I

I wouldn't actually recommend watching the whole thing because it's not like there's tech or even a bunch of specific instruction in there and it's two hours long, but I thought it'd be neat to show people who are trying to get other people to teach them (or thinking about teaching other people). This is how I teach people to play when I'm in-person with them, and I think it's fun.
 

McNum

Member
Went 0-7 on casual matches last night. Kind of an expected result.

Is there no way to set a dummy in training mode to just jump constantly towards me? Under the settings you can set it to jump, but it just jumps up straight vertically. Out of the many problems I have, one of the most glaring is that when opponents were jumping towards me I never punished them for it. I'm playing as Ken. I'm guessing that a good counter would be to time my dragon punch (I think that's what it's called?) when they jump in? Or even just his regular uppercut?
Record it. Go to the recording tab under Dummy settings. Pick one of the five slots there and press Start Recording. You're now in control of the dummy, so jump at your character and press whatever the button that calls up the menu is when you land.

Then close the menu and watch at your opponent starts jumping at you forever. Unless you change that. If you put something else in the other slots, it will randomly swap between what it does.
 

rrc1594

Member
So after some time in the lab, I feel one of my biggest issues is combo link. I'm trying to do Ryu's st. MP, cr. HP xx HP shoryu. I'm having hard time linking st. MP to cr HP. Any suggestions? Is this something I need keep on practicing till I get used to the game and arcade stick?
 

Guru-Guru

Banned
Record it. Go to the recording tab under Dummy settings. Pick one of the five slots there and press Start Recording. You're now in control of the dummy, so jump at your character and press whatever the button that calls up the menu is when you land.

Then close the menu and watch at your opponent starts jumping at you forever. Unless you change that. If you put something else in the other slots, it will randomly swap between what it does.
Totally forgot about that feature. Thanks.
 
So after some time in the lab, I feel one of my biggest issues is combo link. I'm trying to do Ryu's st. MP, cr. HP xx HP shoryu. I'm having hard time linking st. MP to cr HP. Any suggestions? Is this something I need keep on practicing till I get used to the game and arcade stick?
Yeah it's a link. Timing is more lenient than in SF4 but you practice it the same way: if your cr.HP doesn't come out you were early, if it doesn't combo you were late and narrow it down from there until you get it consistently. Also in this case range can be an issue, so pay attention to your position when st.MP connects.
 

rrc1594

Member
Yeah it's a link. Timing is more lenient than in SF4 but you practice it the same way: if your cr.HP doesn't come out you were early, if it doesn't combo you were late and narrow it down from there until you get it consistently. Also in this case range can be an issue, so pay attention to your position when st.MP connects.

Thank You
 
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