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Trevor Noah Under fire for racist and americanized remark about the World Cup Winner France
- Thread starter Dunki
- Start date
BANGS
Banned
I am, I just have a different takeaway than most of you...
Vicetrailia
Member
Trevor aced the response, next.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
It’s amsxing that you try to repeat this tired line where the actual person being accused of racism is black, as if it somehow proves your point.
Dontero
Banned
Ethnicity is what people use when it comes to "nation" therm. While they are by law french they are ethnically from other nations.
You might disagree but that is how humans work. They don't care about law they care about shared culture, blood and history when they talk about nationality.
I also disagree here with him but i not unreasonable to not see his point.
I am pole. I get to france get french citizentship, learn french. Suddenly i am french ? No, i am just pole who lives in France. I don't share history, in my blood there is no part about it french and my culture even if i was born in France would be at best mixed french-polish not french because parents are the main way you learn culture.
Whatever sociologists and lawmakers like it or not this is how humans operate.
No he did not. He tried to defend his opinion nothing else. When even the players disagree with him he should have said sorry I was wrong and move on. This now is not over. And people are already furious about his answer calling him racist, ignorant etc. What he thinks and what Europe and the people directly thing thinks is vastly different.
AGAiN. EVERYONE except 2 WERE BORN IN FRANCE. You are not french when you learn the language, or just move here. You are french when you were born and raised in this country.
And also the whole french team disagreed with hm and he tried the stupid bullshit again.
Also the people who think like Noah in Europe are right wing parties. They call the team out for being too black and when you then get such a ignorant response like Trevor did of course people get upset.
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Dontero
Banned
Did you even read what i wrote ? Place of birth has nothing to do with ethnicity when you are immigrant in first place.
For example if i will go to france and with my wife i will have baby there he will still be polish ethnically because he has no french blood, nor his kin and even if we will stay there for 20 years despite learning language he will still be polish because we as parents give him culture and history and what he should believe in. Legal status has nothing to do with ethnicity
No he will be not. For most people in Europe and France this kid will be french Ethnicity does not mean shit in most of western Europe. That is our mentality here. It is the same in Germany.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Do Americans need German views?
If you talk about Europe then it seems they do. You can keep your obessive view about race in your country. And we do it like we want back here^^
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
How about when we talk about America?
Ok let me clarify this.
We can talk openly also about this here. What I was talking about stupid celebrities with millions of viewers who paint this racist picuture to the mass of people. Private and like this sure. Not on national TV even after he got called out for his "racism" better?
Enosh
Member
stop speaking for all Europeans
Dontero
Banned
You have to check first with statistics. Something tells me that your idea is minority idea and people see themselves as ethnicity not as a random box called nation.
Also if you follow your line of thought then my kid won't became french unless i fill papers regardless of how much time he spends in France. So he can speak only french and lived his whole life in france but he won't be considered by you as french until law says he is.
Which kind of shows problem with your idea. Ethnicity is something immutable and something you can't change. Your description of nationality is just stamp in paper that can be changed, gained or revoked at any point and time.
EItherway my point is that there are various other descriptions of what constitutes "nationality" and they are reasonable and you don't have ability to say they are wrong. Because you are talking about entirely different thing. They talk about ethnicity while you are using "nationality" as law form.
Before spring of nations people attributed who they are to people who they live with not to land they live on. I find it fascinating that in more egalitarian society we put more importance to where people live instead of with whom. You would think that more egalitarian is first one instead of second..
kunonabi
Member
The ridiculous part of this is whole thing is that he's doing exactly what the far left have been arguing against the last few years here in the states. I mean if asking someone here if they're Chinese or japanese is racist than he should be getting slammed by the American left just as he is by the French soccer team.
By his logic everytime an NBA team wins the championship he should be congratulating Africa too.
The fact that he refuses to apologize and people are defending him is just insanely hypocritical.
By his logic everytime an NBA team wins the championship he should be congratulating Africa too.
The fact that he refuses to apologize and people are defending him is just insanely hypocritical.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Nope, seems hypocritical that he can't use his voice (correctly or incorrectly) just because more people are listening.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Noah is wrong here.
If they are from France... then they are french.
Trying to take pride from these players and their country and give it to another group is just sad.
People need to pick their narrative and stick with it. So tired of hearing people say race isn't important and at the same time trying to make race important.
It's like saying you can't eat Pork and asking me to pass the Ham and Bacon.
If they are from France... then they are french.
Trying to take pride from these players and their country and give it to another group is just sad.
People need to pick their narrative and stick with it. So tired of hearing people say race isn't important and at the same time trying to make race important.
It's like saying you can't eat Pork and asking me to pass the Ham and Bacon.
ruvikx
Banned
There is no 'we' in Europe in terms of how race is perceived or described by everyone. There's just the law here & the PC definition "we're all French", "we're all German" etc., then there's what people say behind closed doors & believe privately. It's most certainly not a well structured definition which everyone agrees upon, that's for certain.
See my above reply. There's no dominant or authoritative voice here on the matter. What the inner cities believe versus what the media believes versus what the rural areas believe does not = the same.
ruvikx
Banned
This is simply not true, no matter how much some people wish it to be. Hell, even regional differences play a huge role in defining 'who' someone is (i.e. Bavarian, Saxon etc. in Germany).
Kadayi
Banned
Demonstrate the loss
KonradLaw
Member
They're french. The culture there is of assimilation into french collective. So it's not surprising they took his comment angrily
Americans have tendency to assume the rest of the western world is their copy culturally, but it's not. I mean, look how angry blackfaces make americans, while in plenty of European countries that outrage is met with surprise. The reverse holds true here.
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lil puff
Member
I don't know if most Americans even hold the same view as our media purports.
Airola
Member
It was an ok joke which became an actually good joke when he added Paul Simon to it.
These types of jokes were told a lot, say, 20 years ago. Like in Finland we had this guy called Wilson Kirwa (born in Kenya) running for the Finnish team. Not only he usually beat the Finnish runners but he was also one of the reasons Finland had good results in some international competitions. It was perfectly ok to both be proud of him bringing medals to Finland and still joke that we have to get help from Africa to get good results. I already thought that type of thinking is considered evil today, but now as he said the same joke I thought it's not evil, but now that he got criticized by it I guess it is evil after all, lol
Feeling pride of the African-French people's heritage is perfectly ok. It's kinda the same thing than some Finnish people feeling this tiny bit of pride whenever some famous person is said to have some Finnish ancestors. David Lynch has, Dave Mustaine has. And it's ok to joke about it.
These types of jokes were told a lot, say, 20 years ago. Like in Finland we had this guy called Wilson Kirwa (born in Kenya) running for the Finnish team. Not only he usually beat the Finnish runners but he was also one of the reasons Finland had good results in some international competitions. It was perfectly ok to both be proud of him bringing medals to Finland and still joke that we have to get help from Africa to get good results. I already thought that type of thinking is considered evil today, but now as he said the same joke I thought it's not evil, but now that he got criticized by it I guess it is evil after all, lol
Feeling pride of the African-French people's heritage is perfectly ok. It's kinda the same thing than some Finnish people feeling this tiny bit of pride whenever some famous person is said to have some Finnish ancestors. David Lynch has, Dave Mustaine has. And it's ok to joke about it.
sometimes i game
Member
Trevor is a moron. When he interviewed Tomi Lahren - who I don't like - he was very belittling and sexist. She at one point said, ~"I'm a millennial, we don't frequently use labels" and he responded by basically saying "WOW GOT YA MILLENNIAL IS A LABEL YOURE AN IDIOT!" It was very small of him. It was very Tucker Carlson - sass, attitude, gotcha, rude, just dumb.
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TTOOLL
Member
They keep digging, it's incredible.
Shiki_
Banned
Are you aware than the players are the most upset here, right? This has nothing to do with "the left" or "the right".
Noah is spot on, there is nuance lacking In discussions like this. People want to see people they identify with succeed, in this case Noah shares a background/culture with these players and is happy for their success. He is not Le Pen saying this team isn’t French due to its diverse nature. Noah is coming from a point of pride so the calls for racism are unjustified.
ilfait
Member
If he understood the critics' position and sufficiently clarified his own position then he aced the response. He didn't need to say something that the players or anyone else agrees with. "Acing" a response doesn't mean answering a question in such a way that will appease the people he offended.
KonradLaw
Member
I hope so. I mean, for all it's problems USA is still the very best case study of multiculturalism actually working. And I feel like the sometimes a bit silly, but very earnest and very endearing "America! Fuck yeah!" patriotism was a large part of that. That it didn't matter where you came from, you were american and being american was awesome.
Nowadays when I read the polls that show less than half of americans feel proud of their citizenship, where people don't stand up for anthems, when they go "America was never great to begin with" I fear it's all eroding. It's not that there aren't genuine problems and issues in USA and some people are fed up, but taking it out on the very idea of America seems extremely shortsighted and foolish.
lil puff
Member
I am not seeing any politics in this.
It was a dumb joke. And that he led the show with it when there was bigger news was even more dumb. I get that they changed the format a bit, so they do new tidbits and get to the real story. But he missed the memo in the 1st place. Americans don't give a shit about soccer.
edit: I noticed something strange about his show. One day he will nail the entire show. The next day, he can be the most un-funny dude. Do They have twin team writing or something? The show is very inconsistent.
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ruvikx
Banned
In such a conversation, people simply project their own wishes onto the entire country & say "this is what France believes!". I merely look at the facts on the ground & the harsh truth is some French don't consider Africans French, some French consider everyone French who merely comes here & others from post-WW2 immigration believe they're still African or Arab first, despite the fact they're holders of French citizenship (plenty of Algerian & Moroccan flags among the crowds last Sunday).
My advice? Americans should probably refrain from commenting on the situation in Europe, at least in terms of declaring absolutisms.
Kadayi
Banned
Seriously, the fuck? Africa isn't Wakanda. There's a really wide-ranging differential between the various countries and ethnic groups/cultures within it. This idea that one could claim some degree of kinship due purely down to a proximity of melanin count is just fucking out there.
You need to reread what I originally wrote because you don't seem to have understood what I said. It's not about what people might think, it's about the usage of descriptors as an everyday identifier within the public realm in common parlance.
If only I was, in fact, an American versus a European. SMH.
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ilfait
Member
If you take what the Daily Show is now into context, the politics in this is probably pretty apparent; they're no stranger to identity politics. I doubt that in Trevor's mind it was just a lighthearted superficial joke about the comedic absurdity of the situation. Nobody but Trevor can say for sure what he was thinking, but if I were to guess I'd say it's something like "these black people who come from a land once terrorized by white oppressors bring glory to the country of their white oppressors thanks to their strong African genetics. When black people are given some of the same advantages or luxuries as white people then they excel". And he wouldn't be entirely wrong if this were along the lines of what he was thinking, though it may be rude, may be the kind of thinking that sets us a back as a species, may be biased half-truths, may be "racist", and though it may offend.
Whatever this is though, it's so minor. Unless you're using it as an example to discuss a larger issue.
ruvikx
Banned
Vis-à-vis Americans, I was referring to this thread (aka topic & the fact Neogaf is an American forum), not you per se. As for your post:
I disagree. Perhaps ethnic origin & religious affiliation isn't stated on official documents, but it's right there in our faces, hiding in plain sight. I only state what I see & everyone else does: 11 million FN voters, 7 million front de gauche (far, far left), millions of devout Muslims (their youth in particular) & a shrinking 'mainstream' = France in flux, French identity in flux & the definitive answer with regards to 'what' a Frenchman will be defined as might very well change based upon which side becomes dominant in the near future.
There's no one France here, just a bunch of conflicting views on 'what' French is.
Kadayi
Banned
Again, none of what you've said relates to what I'm talking about with regard to the differential in terms of how language is used in Europe versus the US. I honestly don't know what the point is to your disagreement, because you're not even engaging with what I've said.
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ruvikx
Banned
You claimed Europeans don't do 'racial delineation as part of our identity'. I say you're wrong. I already stated my reasons why, i.e. you need merely travel, listen, observe & note the trends. There are millions upon millions of people here who all disagree with each other on the issue of identity, therefor you don't get to say in absolute terms what Europeans do or don't with regards to their identity because the definition changes depending upon who you're talking to.
It's a fractured land filled with conflicting views. That's the reality.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Would Trevor like them to be separated... like an Apartheid, something he is all too familiar with?
For a man who spoke a lot about it, he sure does like to keep a divide with his IdPol jokes that are constantly the norm for him.
For a man who spoke a lot about it, he sure does like to keep a divide with his IdPol jokes that are constantly the norm for him.
HoodWinked
Gold Member
his response to this is pretty much expected trevor really doesn't care and will always get defended since he's the industry darling.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
I find Trevor Noah to be cringey and a bit hateful of Republicans, but people like me need to be consistent and understand the fact that this was all in good fun.
It's just a game, people.
It's just a game, people.
Kadayi
Banned
*Sigh* let's have a look at what I said in context: -
Saying you're French-Algerian isn't the same as saying you're African-French is it? The point isn't that people don't identify with their past/family origin, but they wouldn't necessarily use a broad identifier such as 'African - (European)' or 'Asian-(European')' if they did versus a specific one (unlike in the US).
The insult with what Noah says cuts both ways because he's making a cheap joke at France, but in doing so he also diminishes Africa at the same time by generalizing it.
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Papa
Banned
Have you missed the whole prejudice + power Wokening?
loki 16
Member
I disagree. Putting on a French accent, taking a cheap shot with the colonial comment, it's not a good response at all. That before he forgets he was the one who assigned the players a singular nationality in the first place. The French ambassador is coming from the stance of defending the players, that they can be French (are French) despite being of African descent. I doubt he'd argue against them recognising their ancestral background if they want to. Trevor does get there in the end, but he fucked up and should have just apologised
There's another football example of this, a player called Mario Balotelli. He's Italian, but there's a number of people who didn't want him to represent them because he's not a "true" Italian, i.e. he's black. That's what the French are fighting back against, that kind of thought, not insisting people can only be one thing
Papa
Banned
I didn’t agree with everything he said but I respected the fact he didn’t bend over like a coward and give a grovelling apology to show his wokeness. The world has enough weak men at the moment.
there's an argument that sometimes holding your hands up and admitting you got it wrong is stronger than doubling down. Whatever though, I'm not going to get in to seeing everyone and everything as binary, there's too much of that going around, especially on here
TrainedRage
Banned
You mean how he doubles down on his racism. Yeah its great!
Papa
Banned
Sometimes, but the Brave New World of social media means that all you’re doing is painting a target on your back. Can you give me just one example of an apology going down well on Twitter?
I'm not your assistant, do your own research
Papa
Banned
Oh, you’re one of those types.I'm not your assistant, do your own research